GOT QFR :)

[last_sd]

EDIT: Got QFR with Cherry Blue
Latest post with some questions: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46800.msg992161#msg992161

Hello experts!

After reading the forum for a while, decided to join in.
I am going to purchase my 1st mechanical keyboard soon.

So here is my thinking process
1. Key type -> blue/brown/red but not black
I know this sounds strange since those keys feel/sound different. From trying it out at store, I like all three keys except black. Black feels too stiff for my taste. Brown/Red would have additional benefit of being able to use at work place, but this keyboard will probably stay home most of the time.
Also, I probably will end up buying different kind of keys in the future so I am okay with experimenting.

2. Board size -> TKL
I want to try the TKL, I do use num pad time to time but I think I would be fine without it. Love the small size.
Another plus for TKL, it is usually cheaper than full size. Since it is my first mechanical keyboard I don't want to over spend.

3. Usage -> Typing/Gaming
I would use it for typing as well as gaming. I am not hard core on either but I code(work) as well as game.

4. Budget/Location -> prefer <$100 in Canada.


Using above, I have narrowed it down to two keyboards (but please suggest other ones if you want)

1. Cooler Master QFR(blue or red)
2. Corsair K65(red)

I included Das in title because my friend has one and I borrowed it for a while and I know how it feels. So if someone can compare QFR/K65 with Das that would be easier to understand.
He has "old" Das that doesn't have media keys with Cherry blue.
I have seen and tested QFR in store but not K65 (none of them were open to try).

Information I have gathered(that may or may not be accurate)

QFR: good OEM(Coster), mostly good review, similar to Filco which costs a lot more.
K65: Corsair had some problem with older mechanical keyboards but these are newer models. mostly good review.

Please let me know if you have any input on either my thinking process or keyboard choice.
Thanks in advance!

[Jixr]

Just a heads up, the k65 does not use standard keycaps, so if you want to replace them you will have a much harder time finding a full set.

[tp4tissue]

ERGODOX ftw....

[last_sd]

Just a heads up, the k65 does not use standard keycaps, so if you want to replace them you will have a much harder time finding a full set.

Yeah I read that somewhere. I would probably not replace any keycaps any time soon. Since I am new to the mechanical keyboards, I would probably spend money buying a 2nd set of keyboard with different key type than spend money on new key caps.

[last_sd]

ERGODOX ftw....

I will stay with standard keyboard shape for my first purchase. But it is definitely interesting for future buys.

[esoomenona]

Just a heads up, the k65 does not use standard keycaps, so if you want to replace them you will have a much harder time finding a full set.

Neither does the new Das, IIRC.

[JPG]

Just a heads up, the k65 does not use standard keycaps, so if you want to replace them you will have a much harder time finding a full set.

Yeah I read that somewhere. I would probably not replace any keycaps any time soon. Since I am new to the mechanical keyboards, I would probably spend money buying a 2nd set of keyboard with different key type than spend money on new key caps.

Yea, but 3 months later you will buy new keycaps 

QFR is probably the safest choice, but I think both could be good. The corsair has a very nice look thought.

[tp4tissue]

ERGODOX ftw....

I will stay with standard keyboard shape for my first purchase. But it is definitely interesting for future buys.

what's the point...

It's inevitable. The difference is obvious, it's not a MAYBE at this point, an Ergodox is the BEST keyboard you can buy.

Standard staggered keyboard is a row Boat, where the Ergodox is a B2 bomber.

[JPG]

ERGODOX ftw....

I will stay with standard keyboard shape for my first purchase. But it is definitely interesting for future buys.

what's the point...

It's inevitable. The difference is obvious, it's not a MAYBE at this point, it's flat out THE BEST keyboard you can buy.

Standard staggered keyboard is a row Boat, an Ergodox is the B2 bomber.

Then just sell him one of yours for 100$ or less! 

[last_sd]

Just a heads up, the k65 does not use standard keycaps, so if you want to replace them you will have a much harder time finding a full set.

Neither does the new Das, IIRC.

Good info but I don't think I will buy Das. Wrote it there just as comparison since it's the only mech keyboard I have experience outside of a store.

[last_sd]

what's the point...

It's inevitable. The difference is obvious, it's not a MAYBE at this point, it's flat out THE BEST keyboard you can buy.

Standard staggered keyboard is a row Boat, where the Ergodox is a B2 bomber.

Haha, may have to research Ergodox.

Yea, but 3 months later you will buy new keycaps 

QFR is probably the safest choice, but I think both could be good. The corsair has a very nice look thought.

3 months? Are the stock keycaps that bad?
I guess QFR will be better in case I want to upgrade keycaps.

[tp4tissue]

what's the point...

It's inevitable. The difference is obvious, it's not a MAYBE at this point, it's flat out THE BEST keyboard you can buy.

Standard staggered keyboard is a row Boat, where the Ergodox is a B2 bomber.

Haha, may have to research Ergodox.

Yea, but 3 months later you will buy new keycaps 

QFR is probably the safest choice, but I think both could be good. The corsair has a very nice look thought.

3 months? Are the stock keycaps that bad?
I guess QFR will be better in case I want to upgrade keycaps.

As far as keyboard science goes,  the Ergodox is actually ADVANCED.

It's like you've researched future tech in Civ 4... Feels good...

Good for your hand, wrist and shoulder health.

[last_sd]

As far as keyboard science goes,  the Ergodox is actually ADVANCED.

It's like you've researched future tech in Civ 4... Feels good...

Good for your hand, wrist and shoulder health.

Haha. How expansive are they? I have to search if and where they sell these in Canada.
If it's over $100 it's over initial budget.

[ping111]

As far as keyboard science goes,  the Ergodox is actually ADVANCED.

It's like you've researched future tech in Civ 4... Feels good...

Good for your hand, wrist and shoulder health.

Haha. How expansive are they? I have to search if and where they sell these in Canada.
If it's over $100 it's over initial budget.

Unfortunately, an ErgoDox with all the fixings, including shipping and assembly (if you haven't the greasiest coveralls on the site), can be well over $150-$200. 

[CPTBadAss]

I vote for the QFR

[jameslr]

+1 for QFR in MX blues. Was my first mech, and really liked it. Just sold it since I bought a Ducky Shine III with MX Blues.

[last_sd]

I vote for the QFR

+1 for QFR in MX blues. Was my first mech, and really liked it. Just sold it since I bought a Ducky Shine III with MX Blues.

QFR with MX Blues seems to be what most people suggest for first time mech keyboard with low budget.

Ducky Shine looks real nice. How does it compare to the QFR in terms of build quality and etc? (for future reference)

[last_sd]

If I get MX blue switch, does key get damaged(not sure if that's the right way to put it) if I bottom out all the time?

I am used to bottoming out keys (always used non-mechanical) and I am sure I can adjust for typing but I will still bottom out when I play games.

[aesthetics1]

what's the point...

It's inevitable. The difference is obvious, it's not a MAYBE at this point, it's flat out THE BEST keyboard you can buy.

Standard staggered keyboard is a row Boat, where the Ergodox is a B2 bomber.

Haha, may have to research Ergodox.

Yea, but 3 months later you will buy new keycaps 

QFR is probably the safest choice, but I think both could be good. The corsair has a very nice look thought.

3 months? Are the stock keycaps that bad?
I guess QFR will be better in case I want to upgrade keycaps.

As far as keyboard science goes,  the Ergodox is actually ADVANCED.

It's like you've researched future tech in Civ 4... Feels good...

Good for your hand, wrist and shoulder health.

Man, you've gone from being an occasional troll to a full-time troll. You expect him to game on an ergodox? That's fun. I'd like to see him reaching from the left to the right side with his left hand, since his right hand will be busy with the mouse. I bet that's great for wrist/shoulder/hand health.

Not to mention the cost. Why do you chime in when it's obviously not the right choice for the poster? Every. Single. Time. If you went about it in a less elitist way, it might actually be constructive. "Have you thought about an ergonomic layout? Check out the ergodox, it's a great product <link>". Seriously.

On to the actual topic: OP, from what you've said, it sounds like you want a TKL with some options for customizing it down the road. The QFR is your best bet. It comes in just about every switch, and is cheap enough to allow you to experiment a bit with a low entry cost. You aren't going to damage it by bottoming out. If you game, you will probably bottom out. If you're just typing, you're less likely to mash the same key repeatedly and bottom out.

Switches are completely up to you, try them out and make your own decision on that front. But based on your options, the QFR is what you want.

[oTurtlez]

If I get MX blue switch, does key get damaged(not sure if that's the right way to put it) if I bottom out all the time?

I am used to bottoming out keys (always used non-mechanical) and I am sure I can adjust for typing but I will still bottom out when I play games.

No, bottoming out is a normal thing to do and will not damage the keys. Unless of course you have hammers for hands, in which yes, yes it will.

[CPTBadAss]

QFR with MX Blues seems to be what most people suggest for first time mech keyboard with low budget.

Ducky Shine looks real nice. How does it compare to the QFR in terms of build quality and etc? (for future reference)

I've only typed on a Ducky Shine and I've never taken it apart. From what I've felt from typing, the Shine is a great board. I will say that the PCB is a bit lacking but the plate and the case on the QFR is really nice. The PCB is very thin but you don't have to do in-switch diodes. So for me, the build quality on the QFR's PCB could be nicer, but you and myself especially have to remember what the price point of the board is.

[last_sd]

Man, you've gone from being an occasional troll to a full-time troll. You expect him to game on an ergodox? That's fun. I'd like to see him reaching from the left to the right side with his left hand, since his right hand will be busy with the mouse. I bet that's great for wrist/shoulder/hand health.

Not to mention the cost. Why do you chime in when it's obviously not the right choice for the poster? Every. Single. Time. If you went about it in a less elitist way, it might actually be constructive. "Have you thought about an ergonomic layout? Check out the ergodox, it's a great product <link>". Seriously.

On to the actual topic: OP, from what you've said, it sounds like you want a TKL with some options for customizing it down the road. The QFR is your best bet. It comes in just about every switch, and is cheap enough to allow you to experiment a bit with a low entry cost. You aren't going to damage it by bottoming out. If you game, you will probably bottom out. If you're just typing, you're less likely to mash the same key repeatedly and bottom out.

Switches are completely up to you, try them out and make your own decision on that front. But based on your options, the QFR is what you want.

Very true about the gaming part. Ergodox looks very interesting and I may look into it in the future, but that will not work for some games whatsoever.

I am leaning towards QFR-blue.
There is only so much I can test in the store. So being one of the cheapest keyboard(with good quality) I can get is a big plus. If I really like the blue, maybe I will mod it with new caps etc.
If I get tired or want to try something new I can buy another keyboard with different key(Brown/Red for work maybe).

No, bottoming out is a normal thing to do and will not damage the keys. Unless of course you have hammers for hands, in which yes, yes it will.

Coffee spill on my desk thanks to you
That's good that bottoming out doesn't damage the blue keys.

[last_sd]

QFR with MX Blues seems to be what most people suggest for first time mech keyboard with low budget.

Ducky Shine looks real nice. How does it compare to the QFR in terms of build quality and etc? (for future reference)

I've only typed on a Ducky Shine and I've never taken it apart. From what I've felt from typing, the Shine is a great board. I will say that the PCB is a bit lacking but the plate and the case on the QFR is really nice. The PCB is very thin but you don't have to do in-switch diodes. So for me, the build quality on the QFR's PCB could be nicer, but you and myself especially have to remember what the price point of the board is.

Yeah. From what I have read it's hard to beat QFR's quality/price ratio. I wanted to see how the new K65 fares against it but can't seem to find many comparative reviews on it.

I will probably get QFR with blue by the end of the month(before $20 rebate expires) unless some amazing sale pops up for other keyboards.

[CPTBadAss]

I believe Corsair has a bad image on GH ever since they used RD switches in their function row on the last generation of boards they built. I know I stopped caring about them when I found that out.

[Jixr]

Well, I had a k95 for a little bit, ( the full sized k65 ) and i thought it was really good. the switches only come in red i believe, but overall i liked it. compared to a QFR i like the smaller footprint and minimalizm of the QFR, but both are equally nice i think.

[last_sd]

Well, I had a k95 for a little bit, ( the full sized k65 ) and i thought it was really good. the switches only come in red i believe, but overall i liked it. compared to a QFR i like the smaller footprint and minimalizm of the QFR, but both are equally nice i think.

Thanks for the input!

Does anyone know the OEM company for Corsair?
I know QFR is Costar. Not that I would even notice the difference as a first time user, just curious.

[last_sd]

EDIT: double post

[Hyde]

Does anyone know the OEM company for Corsair?
I know QFR is Costar. Not that I would even notice the difference as a first time user, just curious.

Seems to be the mysterious OEM that also makes Logitech K710+ and CM Storm TK (And maybe the new Das Keyboard).

Though as far as I know, no one on Geekhack knows which company it is so far.  (Except the CM Reps but they won't tell lol)


EDIT:  Forgot to mention I give a vote to QFR with MX Brown.  If Brown is not available go MX Red.

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_273_274&item_id=059841

http://www.canadacomputers.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_273_274&item_id=060621

[do_Og@n]

ERGODOX ftw....

I go with tp4tissue on this one.... 

But seriously....I would go for a QFR with Blues. The office I work in now has 5 (soon to be 6  ) people using clicky keyboards and you would be surprised at how much you don't really even hear them (mainly because on a subconscious level you ignore it...like your OH  ).

Browns would be my second choice. Main reason between the two is because they are built well, feel nice, and easy to resell if you change your mind. Plus you can change out the keycaps without any issues.

GLWB!!!

[microsoft windows]

I'VE ALWAYS LIKED THE CHERRY MX BLUE SWITCHES AS WELL. I'D RECOMMEND THEM FOR YOUR KEYBOARD.

BROWN'S AREN'T TOO BAD EITHER, BUT I PREFER THE CLICKY SOUND FOR MECHANICAL SWITCHES.

[tp4tissue]

Whoever said there are problems gaming on the ERgodox doesn't own an ergodox...

The ergodox is fully programmable.

You can put any key anywhere. AND you can assign 10 different HARDWARE PROFILE keys to any 1 key and toggle between them.

So you can have an all gaming layer and even have different layers for different games.

There are no games that require THAT many keys,  EVEN if they do, the Ergodox is more than capable of accommodating through it's programmable feature.


Standard keyboards can go suck a d.....ick

I've tried every game I own on the ergodox BF3, SC2, all the AAAs  and they all play fantastic given the slightest bit of initial configuration.

[last_sd]

ERGODOX ftw....

I go with tp4tissue on this one.... 

But seriously....I would go for a QFR with Blues. The office I work in now has 5 (soon to be 6  ) people using clicky keyboards and you would be surprised at how much you don't really even hear them (mainly because on a subconscious level you ignore it...like your OH  ).

Browns would be my second choice. Main reason between the two is because they are built well, feel nice, and easy to resell if you change your mind. Plus you can change out the keycaps without any issues.

GLWB!!!

I didn't know that QFR had stealth version.
They definitely look nice but I can't justify extra cost. (I am assuming everything is same as original QFR but just new key caps)
I doubt that they will have similar rebate as the original QFR($20 in Aug) any time soon since it is quite new.

[last_sd]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the old batch(one with a lot of CM logo) of QFR from the new ones(less logo)?

Do they have different barcode? Manufacturing date etc?
I know some computer parts use different code for different batch of same items.

[CPTBadAss]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the old batch(one with a lot of CM logo) of QFR from the new ones(less logo)?

Is this a real question? You just answered your own question....one has lots of logos, one doesn't. That's how you tell....

[demik]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the old batch(one with a lot of CM logo) of QFR from the new ones(less logo)?

Do they have different barcode? Manufacturing date etc?
I know some computer parts use different code for different batch of same items.

yup.

old batch has logos, new doesn't.

[tjcaustin]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the old batch(one with a lot of CM logo) of QFR from the new ones(less logo)?

Is this a real question? You just answered your own question....one has lots of logos, one doesn't. That's how you tell....

It's actually surprisingly hard to determine which is new and which is old, there used to be a thread expounding on all the various ways you could tell, but the easiest was carbon dating with with fossils.

I mean, you could never tell what was a logo or not with Cooler Master anyways and it's not like with vintage blacks where you could tell by feel.

[Hyde]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the old batch(one with a lot of CM logo) of QFR from the new ones(less logo)?

Do they have different barcode? Manufacturing date etc?
I know some computer parts use different code for different batch of same items.

If you mean by buying it without open the box.  Most of the new ones should all be logo-less.

Or if you want to be extra safe, get the Stealth version since they only come with the new case.

[rowdy]

Another vote for QFR - I have one (MX blacks, branded) and it is great!  I swapped keycaps out after a while - the stock ones, although sufficient, have a horrible font and I managed to get one with branding (not much other choice in Australia).

Or Ducky?  Ducky if you want backlighting, but that will cost a bit more.  There is Ducky Zero without backlighting, but I have only seen full-sized boards so far.  Rumour is that TKL Ducky Zero should reach us eventually.

[tp4tissue]

The only remotely logical alternative to an EDx is to buy 2x quickfire rapids, and make sure they're both running 1000hz mod so that you don't run into sync problems.

[HendyZone]

+1 Vote for QFR 
choose the MX Blue One, as you don't like the black one

[last_sd]

Is this a real question? You just answered your own question....one has lots of logos, one doesn't. That's how you tell....

yup.

old batch has logos, new doesn't.

It's actually surprisingly hard to determine which is new and which is old, there used to be a thread expounding on all the various ways you could tell, but the easiest was carbon dating with with fossils.

I mean, you could never tell what was a logo or not with Cooler Master anyways and it's not like with vintage blacks where you could tell by feel.

If you mean by buying it without open the box.  Most of the new ones should all be logo-less.

Or if you want to be extra safe, get the Stealth version since they only come with the new case.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I meant is there a way to tell the difference without opening the box since not all stores allow you to open the box before buying it.
I don't mind the old batch with a lot of logos but I prefer the newer one.

[last_sd]

Another vote for QFR - I have one (MX blacks, branded) and it is great!  I swapped keycaps out after a while - the stock ones, although sufficient, have a horrible font and I managed to get one with branding (not much other choice in Australia).

Or Ducky?  Ducky if you want backlighting, but that will cost a bit more.  There is Ducky Zero without backlighting, but I have only seen full-sized boards so far.  Rumour is that TKL Ducky Zero should reach us eventually.

Heard a lot of good things about Ducky as well. Easy to find different switch types and back lights. I don't really have opinion on backlight. It looks cool but I rarely look at the keyboard and my room at home or work is rarely dark enough. Probably will use it if I have backlight but not actively looking for one.

[last_sd]

So I got the CM QFR with Cherry BLUE.
I was going to wait until end of August but I had to go to Canada Computers to pick up my sound card and couldn't resist.

My keyboard is the newer batch with less logo.
The case is BLACK. I thought all QFR came with Grey case except the red keys. But I opened up 3~4 QFR blue at the store and all of them were BLACK case with no logo.

Every thing is working good except the CAPS LOCK key.
It feels somewhat different than other keys.

Sound a bit different and feels similar to other keys only when I press exactly the middle of the key.

Trying to remove the key cap with the keycap remover that came with but with no success (key puller is only locking on to the top part of the key cap not the bottom.
When I try to pull up, it gets pulled in an angle. So I stopped. Didn't want to damage the keys.

Everything else feels amazing
I tried Das original before and I like this one more (probably because it is mine)

[do_Og@n]

If you have the money I would highly suggest getting some different keycaps of different profiles and try them out.

You would be amazed at how much different a keyboard can feel with different caps.

For the blues on my poker my favorite ones so far are lasered pbt caps off of a Cherry POS board. They feel awesome and the clickyness is amazing.

[Kiraaaa]

Nice. Congrats on the new board. I also picked up my QFR Stealth in Blue from Canada Computer in a similar way.. I just couldn't resist, haha.

[jameslr]

I vote for the QFR

+1 for QFR in MX blues. Was my first mech, and really liked it. Just sold it since I bought a Ducky Shine III with MX Blues.

QFR with MX Blues seems to be what most people suggest for first time mech keyboard with low budget.

Ducky Shine looks real nice. How does it compare to the QFR in terms of build quality and etc? (for future reference)

I just got my Shine III and I have to say the quality is really nice. It's a very solid board. The blue MX switches feel a little tight compared to the QFR's blue MX switches, but maybe that is something that will change over time. Since typing on my realforce I've come to appreciate quality caps. These Ducky shine III caps are kinda crappy. They're really thin. Unfortunately there aren't many replacements that will allow you to keep the functionality of your backlight.

Overall I'm happy with the board, however, I may just end up trading it off or selling it because I think I have been converted to TKL only. We'll see how well I like it in a couple weeks.

[rowdy]

So I got the CM QFR with Cherry BLUE.
I was going to wait until end of August but I had to go to Canada Computers to pick up my sound card and couldn't resist.

My keyboard is the newer batch with less logo.
The case is BLACK. I thought all QFR came with Grey case except the red keys. But I opened up 3~4 QFR blue at the store and all of them were BLACK case with no logo.

Every thing is working good except the CAPS LOCK key.
It feels somewhat different than other keys.

Sound a bit different and feels similar to other keys only when I press exactly the middle of the key.

Trying to remove the key cap with the keycap remover that came with but with no success (key puller is only locking on to the top part of the key cap not the bottom.
When I try to pull up, it gets pulled in an angle. So I stopped. Didn't want to damage the keys.

Everything else feels amazing
I tried Das original before and I like this one more (probably because it is mine)

Congratulations!

I think the new ones do all come with black cases, but you can get replacement cases from CM, and there are a few members who can customise a case top for you.

Caps Lock should not have stabilisers, just a centre stem.  You should be able to lift it straight off.  When taking the stock keycaps off for the first time they might be tight, so be very careful.  A wire keycap puller is much better than the plastic one that comes with the keyboard.  I usually try to wiggle he keycap around in a very VERY small circle as I am applying gentle vertical force to lift it off.

So saying, once you become accustomed to removing keycaps, a small screwdriver under the edge, gentle force, and supporting he opposite side of the keycap can remove them much faster.

As others have said, replacing the keycaps will give the keyboard a completely different feel, and probably sound too.

[last_sd]

Congratulations!

I think the new ones do all come with black cases, but you can get replacement cases from CM, and there are a few members who can customise a case top for you.

Caps Lock should not have stabilisers, just a centre stem.  You should be able to lift it straight off.  When taking the stock keycaps off for the first time they might be tight, so be very careful.  A wire keycap puller is much better than the plastic one that comes with the keyboard.  I usually try to wiggle he keycap around in a very VERY small circle as I am applying gentle vertical force to lift it off.

So saying, once you become accustomed to removing keycaps, a small screwdriver under the edge, gentle force, and supporting he opposite side of the keycap can remove them much faster.

As others have said, replacing the keycaps will give the keyboard a completely different feel, and probably sound too.

Thanks! I will try this later

[aesthetics1]

Congratulations!

I think the new ones do all come with black cases, but you can get replacement cases from CM, and there are a few members who can customise a case top for you.

Caps Lock should not have stabilisers, just a centre stem.  You should be able to lift it straight off.  When taking the stock keycaps off for the first time they might be tight, so be very careful.  A wire keycap puller is much better than the plastic one that comes with the keyboard.  I usually try to wiggle he keycap around in a very VERY small circle as I am applying gentle vertical force to lift it off.

So saying, once you become accustomed to removing keycaps, a small screwdriver under the edge, gentle force, and supporting he opposite side of the keycap can remove them much faster.

As others have said, replacing the keycaps will give the keyboard a completely different feel, and probably sound too.

Thanks! I will try this later

Absolutely look for some keycaps. QFR will wear very quickly. Grats on the purchase.