Topre users - PCB or Plate?

[Icte]

Hello peeps! Haven't seen a similiar thread here so I'mma create one if it's OK!

Anyway, for you who use/have used Topre switches and tried 'em mounted on PCB (such as HHKB) and on plate (such as Realforce), what do you prefer and WHY?

Post on!

[oTurtlez]

The HHKB is actually "case mounted" as the switches are moulded into the case. Weird design. Anywho, I've only tried different plate mounted topre for now but I should have an HHKB in come tuesday so I'll report back here and give a real answer

[Icte]

The HHKB is actually "case mounted" as the switches are moulded into the case. Weird design. Anywho, I've only tried different plate mounted topre for now but I should have an HHKB in come tuesday so I'll report back here and give a real answer

Huh, must've missed that lol. But yes, please do! I'm also considering buying an HHKB, but since I'm in Europe it will be quite costly with shipping and everything >.< Especially the silent model.. Yum 

[oTurtlez]

The HHKB is actually "case mounted" as the switches are moulded into the case. Weird design. Anywho, I've only tried different plate mounted topre for now but I should have an HHKB in come tuesday so I'll report back here and give a real answer

Huh, must've missed that lol. But yes, please do! I'm also considering buying an HHKB, but since I'm in Europe it will be quite costly with shipping and everything >.< Especially the silent model.. Yum 

Seeeeeeeeeeee.

[Icte]

The HHKB is actually "case mounted" as the switches are moulded into the case. Weird design. Anywho, I've only tried different plate mounted topre for now but I should have an HHKB in come tuesday so I'll report back here and give a real answer

Huh, must've missed that lol. But yes, please do! I'm also considering buying an HHKB, but since I'm in Europe it will be quite costly with shipping and everything >.< Especially the silent model.. Yum 

Seeeeeeeeeeee.

Show Image

Incredibru  :confused:

[rowdy]

Case-mount FTW

[Icte]

Case-mount FTW

O rly? Elaborate por favor!

[daerid]

Case mounted Topres let the entire case resonate with the keystroke, amplifying the ever-so-satisfying "thock" of the switch. On a Plate mounted Topre, the plate absorbs most of the resonance, therefore dampening the thock.

Put a HHKB next to a RealForce, and you'll hear what I mean. The HHKB is definitely louder and "thockier". IMO it's the best sounding keyboard ever made, just wish I could use the layout.

[AKIMbO]

Realforce feels smoother.  HHKB sounds better.

45g on hhkb is way more tactile than on the realforce. 

It's a personal preference which you prefer.  I'm constantly switching between my RF and my HHKB.

[acantha]

i had no idea the hhkb looked like that inside. cool! i want to try a realforce board someday but don't want to buy one just yet.

[Icte]

Case mounted Topres let the entire case resonate with the keystroke, amplifying the ever-so-satisfying "thock" of the switch. On a Plate mounted Topre, the plate absorbs most of the resonance, therefore dampening the thock.

Put a HHKB next to a RealForce, and you'll hear what I mean. The HHKB is definitely louder and "thockier". IMO it's the best sounding keyboard ever made, just wish I could use the layout.

Yeah I do like the "thock" they make.. So nice sounding! I've heard the silent type "Type S" makes it even more pleasant to type on an HHKB - is that true? Worth the extra money?

i had no idea the hhkb looked like that inside. cool! i want to try a realforce board someday but don't want to buy one just yet.

So no HHKB for you?

Realforce feels smoother.  HHKB sounds better.

45g on hhkb is way more tactile than on the realforce. 

It's a personal preference which you prefer.  I'm constantly switching between my RF and my HHKB.

So HHKB is more scratchy?

[rowdy]

Case mounted Topres let the entire case resonate with the keystroke, amplifying the ever-so-satisfying "thock" of the switch. On a Plate mounted Topre, the plate absorbs most of the resonance, therefore dampening the thock.

Put a HHKB next to a RealForce, and you'll hear what I mean. The HHKB is definitely louder and "thockier". IMO it's the best sounding keyboard ever made, just wish I could use the layout.

^ This!

Also, grats on 3000, daerid!

[daerid]

Thanks! Didn't even realize it had happened

[ValerieV]

When i got the Realforce 45g i was very disappointed because it sounded more mushy than my HHKB. As a result i sold the Realforce. I have heard people on this board say that a Realforce 55g sounds more like the HHKB. The disadvantage that the HHKB has is that it doesn't have dedicated arrow keys. Other than that, the HHKB is a dream not just to type on put to travel with as well.

[PadawanGeek]

Yep, damn, you guys are good. Didn't notice a difference (used them separately usually) till just now, starting tapping the keys on both my RF 103UB-55G and my HHKB Pro2, there is a difference in sound, the 'thock' is louder on the HHKB......never thought to listen to the sound.

[daerid]

When i got the Realforce 45g i was very disappointed because it sounded more mushy than my HHKB. As a result i sold the Realforce. I have heard people on this board say that a Realforce 55g sounds more like the HHKB. The disadvantage that the HHKB has is that it doesn't have dedicated arrow keys. Other than that, the HHKB is a dream not just to type on put to travel with as well.

You might try the FC660C. It's a lot closer to the HHKB than it is to the RF, despite having a plate. Plus arrows!

[rowdy]

I'd love a FC660C, but in white.  I would have bought one of those over the HHKB if they were available at the time I got my HHKB.

That isn't to say I don't like my HHKB - I love it!  I just really miss the arrow keys, which I use far more than I realised.

[insilica]

I'd love a FC660C, but in white.  I would have bought one of those over the HHKB if they were available at the time I got my HHKB.

That isn't to say I don't like my HHKB - I love it!  I just really miss the arrow keys, which I use far more than I realised.

The FC660C is a great keyboard. I was hesitant re: color at first but I love mine right now. I hope Leopold do some keycaps, would love some blank white keycaps on this tiny beast .

[iri]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

[Michael]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

[Icte]

When i got the Realforce 45g i was very disappointed because it sounded more mushy than my HHKB. As a result i sold the Realforce. I have heard people on this board say that a Realforce 55g sounds more like the HHKB. The disadvantage that the HHKB has is that it doesn't have dedicated arrow keys. Other than that, the HHKB is a dream not just to type on put to travel with as well.

How's the Realforce build quality compared to the HHKB?

[Icte]

BTW!

For people who have tried both the HHKB Type S and the Pro 2, which one do YOU recommend if price isn't an issue?

[meiosis]

BTW!

For people who have tried both the HHKB Type S and the Pro 2, which one do YOU recommend if price isn't an issue?

All of the elitists here have a Type-S. If you take the time to learn about Tenso and Amazon.co.jp there is a guide to get one quite a bit cheaper than you would through say Elite KBD.

It really depends on how much sound bothers you. Is quietness worth $100+?

[Icte]

BTW!

For people who have tried both the HHKB Type S and the Pro 2, which one do YOU recommend if price isn't an issue?

All of the elitists here have a Type-S. If you take the time to learn about Tenso and Amazon.co.jp there is a guide to get one quite a bit cheaper than you would through say Elite KBD.

It really depends on how much sound bothers you. Is quietness worth $100+?

Well my goal is for the "thump" to be as much pronounced as possibru. I've been thinking about getting an HHKB and mod it into a type S using rubber circles that are 12mm wide with an inner radius of 9mm, as suggested in another thread. Seems to work exactly the same as the same as the Type S and I wouldn't need to pay $100 extra

But nevertheless, ordering an HHKB will still be quite expensive. Where did you find this guide of getting one cheap (will it work for Europeans aswell?)?

[meiosis]

http://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/18387i/guide_bought_my_hhkb_pro_2_from_amazoncojp/

The guide,

It is around $230 shipped to USA, should be less since Europe is technically closer? Although you guys have VAT

I'd go for the Type-S though apparently EK pushed price up $60 or so to make pro 2 cheaper

[Icte]

Nice guide indeed, thanks!

Yeah the VAT can be problematic.. But I THINK you can bypass it by marking the bought keyboard as a gift? Can Tenso do that?

[tp4tissue]

BTW!

For people who have tried both the HHKB Type S and the Pro 2, which one do YOU recommend if price isn't an issue?

All of the elitists here have a Type-S. If you take the time to learn about Tenso and Amazon.co.jp there is a guide to get one quite a bit cheaper than you would through say Elite KBD.

It really depends on how much sound bothers you. Is quietness worth $100+?

Well my goal is for the "thump" to be as much pronounced as possibru. I've been thinking about getting an HHKB and mod it into a type S using rubber circles that are 12mm wide with an inner radius of 9mm, as suggested in another thread. Seems to work exactly the same as the same as the Type S and I wouldn't need to pay $100 extra

But nevertheless, ordering an HHKB will still be quite expensive. Where did you find this guide of getting one cheap (will it work for Europeans aswell?)?

no, it's not exactly the same.

The stems are different.

the hhkb s  has a longer stem so that the ring does not change the travel distance.

if you mod the hhkb vanilla, you will reduce the travel distance, NOT ONLY THAT, it will also change the feel of the key dramatically , because You are starting further down the pressure curve.

So a modded hhkb vanilla would start with a higher pressure point.


Why does this matter. You decide for yourself,,   BUT, they are NOT THE SAME..

There's a reason to preserve 4mm travel.  Because it gives you that satisfaction feeling that a keypress has occured.


You can do without it, sure, but then why did you buy a $200 keyboard to begin with.

[Icte]

BTW!

For people who have tried both the HHKB Type S and the Pro 2, which one do YOU recommend if price isn't an issue?

All of the elitists here have a Type-S. If you take the time to learn about Tenso and Amazon.co.jp there is a guide to get one quite a bit cheaper than you would through say Elite KBD.

It really depends on how much sound bothers you. Is quietness worth $100+?

Well my goal is for the "thump" to be as much pronounced as possibru. I've been thinking about getting an HHKB and mod it into a type S using rubber circles that are 12mm wide with an inner radius of 9mm, as suggested in another thread. Seems to work exactly the same as the same as the Type S and I wouldn't need to pay $100 extra

But nevertheless, ordering an HHKB will still be quite expensive. Where did you find this guide of getting one cheap (will it work for Europeans aswell?)?

no, it's not exactly the same.

The stems are different.

the hhkb s  has a longer stem so that the ring does not change the travel distance.

if you mod the hhkb vanilla, you will reduce the travel distance, NOT ONLY THAT, it will also change the feel of the key dramatically , because You are starting further down the pressure curve.

So a modded hhkb vanilla would start with a higher pressure point.


Why does this matter. You decide for yourself,,   BUT, they are NOT THE SAME..

There's a reason to preserve 4mm travel.  Because it gives you that satisfaction feeling that a keypress has occured.


You can do without it, sure, but then why did you buy a $200 keyboard to begin with.

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=34972.0
There is a guy here that tried the o-ring modding and another one who copied it too (scroll down) but found the travel distance to be reduced, so he made a couple of modded o-rings, experimented and found actually a perfect size and fit that immitates the Type S. And idk.. paying $130 extra for a taller stem and some o-rings does seem a bit overkill! $200 is already a lot, but Topre is just SOOOO nice sounding and most likely THE keyboard I want/need

Besides, once you go Topre you never go back eh?

[TheQsanity]

Good thread. I was asking the same question myself. Bottom like is once you get used to them both HHKB and Realforce feel just as good?

Even though one sounds better and the other feels better?

I hear a lot of people arguing what feels better cherry or topre...
but what sounds better? HHKB, Realforce, Cherry(with any switch and any keycap)... other...

[Polymer]

Good thread. I was asking the same question myself. Bottom like is once you get used to them both HHKB and Realforce feel just as good?

Even though one sounds better and the other feels better?

I hear a lot of people arguing what feels better cherry or topre...
but what sounds better? HHKB, Realforce, Cherry(with any switch and any keycap)... other...

To me the HHKB sounds AND feels better than the Realforce although I haven't had a lot of time with uniform 55g so I can't make a fair assessment.

I think the only thing I like and at the same dislike about the RF is the variable...It is annoying too soft if you're leaving your fingers on the keyboard..but really, it is so much easier on your hands and is really noticeable when you switch back and forth. 

[Icte]

Good thread. I was asking the same question myself. Bottom like is once you get used to them both HHKB and Realforce feel just as good?

Even though one sounds better and the other feels better?

I hear a lot of people arguing what feels better cherry or topre...
but what sounds better? HHKB, Realforce, Cherry(with any switch and any keycap)... other...

From what I've hard on all the numerous YouTube vids, I prefer the HHKB thump! Feelingwise.. I see that a lot of people actually do prefer the HHKB more than Realforce 'cause of more tactility from the case mount?

IMO - Switches that has a low-noise thump gives me the ultimate, darkness, end-of-the-world satisfaction such as one is given when you're writing a doomsday code for mass destruction of computers

[TheQsanity]

I hear a lot of people bagging on the variable. It sounds like a really good idea to me. Maybe if they were in a closer range and smaller differences per key?

[Polymer]

Variable IS a good idea....

I think the only issue people have with it is you can rest your fingers on it...and get things like this: 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

You're not even pushing it down much if any.....To me if they slightly upped the light keys it would be a bit more ideal...

Also, for gaming...some have said they're fine..I don't see how...especially not with the way the current light keys are...they're just too sensitive....

But for overall typing...they're really quite good..I don't think making the pinky keys slightly stiffer would change how they work and it would get rid of some of the funniness...but that said, for long typing sessions they're very nice and they don't seem to generate additional mistakes..it really only happens when you're sitting there thinking with your hands on the keys...

[Icte]

Is variable recommended for people who practice rock climbing and have practically six-packs on their fingers? 

[oTurtlez]

Is variable recommended for people who practice rock climbing and have practically six-packs on their fingers? 

I'd get a uniform simply because I prefer it over variable anyway, but I have no problem using a variable as a DD.

Even for gaming I love my variable. I mean, every now and then I'll notice the 35g keys being a bit squishy, but that's the extent. Otherwise they're perfectly fine to do everything with.

[TheQsanity]

Interesting.

[Icte]

Interesting.

Indeed.

[SpAmRaY]

Interesting.

Indeed.

+1

[iri]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite?

[Icte]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

It imposes a butt?

[oTurtlez]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

It imposes a butt?

Exactly.

So I've been using the HHKB for the last few days and it's been growing on me though I've been struggling with the layout being non standard. I do however like it. So far feel isn't too different to me between the two, though case mount might feel a bit stiffer and more crisp than plate. Sound wise is where the two differ immensely. I love the sound of the case mount though it's actually surprisingly loud compared to a plate mounted 45g uniform. And compared to my 87u Type S, it's like BS compared to o-ringed MX Reds haha. In the end they both feel great and it's up to preference. I wouldn't have thought they could be this different but they are. You'll just have to eventually try them both.

[Icte]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

It imposes a butt?

Exactly.

So I've been using the HHKB for the last few days and it's been growing on me though I've been struggling with the layout being non standard. I do however like it. So far feel isn't too different to me between the two, though case mount might feel a bit stiffer and more crisp than plate. Sound wise is where the two differ immensely. I love the sound of the case mount though it's actually surprisingly loud compared to a plate mounted 45g uniform. And compared to my 87u Type S, it's like BS compared to o-ringed MX Reds haha. In the end they both feel great and it's up to preference. I wouldn't have thought they could be this different but they are. You'll just have to eventually try them both.

Good comparison! Sound wise - which one of the two you got do you recommend for a person who's lookig for that special 'thump'? Youtube vids confuse me a lot :/

[oTurtlez]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

It imposes a butt?

Exactly.

So I've been using the HHKB for the last few days and it's been growing on me though I've been struggling with the layout being non standard. I do however like it. So far feel isn't too different to me between the two, though case mount might feel a bit stiffer and more crisp than plate. Sound wise is where the two differ immensely. I love the sound of the case mount though it's actually surprisingly loud compared to a plate mounted 45g uniform. And compared to my 87u Type S, it's like BS compared to o-ringed MX Reds haha. In the end they both feel great and it's up to preference. I wouldn't have thought they could be this different but they are. You'll just have to eventually try them both.

Good comparison! Sound wise - which one of the two you got do you recommend for a person who's lookig for that special 'thump'? Youtube vids confuse me a lot :/

If you want the topre Thock, you gotta go HHKB, but if you want an overall great board, either works just fine. If you're used to a normal ANSI layout however, you're gonna have to adjust to the HHKB first. I find myself mistyping a bit for some reason, maybe it's because I'm not used to a 60% after typing on tenkeyless for the last few months, but another thing is the backspace key is above enter, where the \ key is supposed to be. I've gotten used to it in the last 3 days but it was a struggle during those haha.

Pretty much, be all, end all, if you want the stereotypical Topre board, with that wonderful thock and great feel, go for the HHKB. If you want something the feels smoother, lighter, and has a bit more rigidity, refinement, and is quieter, and RF would do you well. To save money, the 660C is phenomenal for the money as well.

If I had to make a recommendation for you personally and what you want, it'd be HHKB > 660C > Any RF.

[Michael]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

[iri]

that surely makes sense!

[Icte]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

It imposes a butt?

Exactly.

So I've been using the HHKB for the last few days and it's been growing on me though I've been struggling with the layout being non standard. I do however like it. So far feel isn't too different to me between the two, though case mount might feel a bit stiffer and more crisp than plate. Sound wise is where the two differ immensely. I love the sound of the case mount though it's actually surprisingly loud compared to a plate mounted 45g uniform. And compared to my 87u Type S, it's like BS compared to o-ringed MX Reds haha. In the end they both feel great and it's up to preference. I wouldn't have thought they could be this different but they are. You'll just have to eventually try them both.

Good comparison! Sound wise - which one of the two you got do you recommend for a person who's lookig for that special 'thump'? Youtube vids confuse me a lot :/

If you want the topre Thock, you gotta go HHKB, but if you want an overall great board, either works just fine. If you're used to a normal ANSI layout however, you're gonna have to adjust to the HHKB first. I find myself mistyping a bit for some reason, maybe it's because I'm not used to a 60% after typing on tenkeyless for the last few months, but another thing is the backspace key is above enter, where the \ key is supposed to be. I've gotten used to it in the last 3 days but it was a struggle during those haha.

Pretty much, be all, end all, if you want the stereotypical Topre board, with that wonderful thock and great feel, go for the HHKB. If you want something the feels smoother, lighter, and has a bit more rigidity, refinement, and is quieter, and RF would do you well. To save money, the 660C is phenomenal for the money as well.

If I had to make a recommendation for you personally and what you want, it'd be HHKB > 660C > Any RF.

Yeah speaking of ANSI.. I'm an ISO-ftw-forever-and-always-'til-death-do-us-apart-guy so I'm quite not fond with the tiny Enter key you guy have I've been looking at the HHKB Pro JP quite a while.. Although I wish the keys would be blank, a bit more programmable (specifically the keys next to Space) and a bit more available than from Japan (I'm in Europe and all this toll and tax bull**** drives me nuts) keyboard Co doesn't sell them either :/ But thanks for your help!

[Icte]

just wish I could use the layout.

and i wish i could use the switches

Doesn't like topre, walks into topre discussion anyways.

doesn't my message imply the opposite? (Attachment Link)

Show Image

Woah.. I shall print this picture in a size of 2m x 2m, hang it on my wall in the office and at home and pray to the all-mighty **** Butt!

[KangarooZombies]

I personally enjoy my plate mounted. Feels nice.
That being said, i can see how people would enjoy the PCB mount.

[Michael]

I would say that once I used 55g on my HHKB, I definitely made that my preference. It may be just that little bit of flex on the HHKB plastic case, but overall, I just like it better than the Realforce.


It's all just personal preference, when it comes down to it, really.

[ValerieV]

I would say that once I used 55g on my HHKB, I definitely made that my preference. It may be just that little bit of flex on the HHKB plastic case, but overall, I just like it better than the Realforce.


It's all just personal preference, when it comes down to it, really.

I thought HHKB is only 45g. How did you get a 55g?