Topre in my hands, do I send it back or keep it?

[vasouv]

Well, due to a mixup from EliteKeyboards in shipping, they sent me this instead of the Leopold Brown Switches I had ordered. I won't bother you with the details of the mixup, it's not relevant.

I've contacted them this morning but of course haven't heard back from them yet (California is about 7 hours behind my timezone), maybe in a couple of hours. I guess I have two options, either return the keyboard and wait for the one I ordered or keep the Topre one. There's a chance that I can't send it back and keep it no matter what (again, mixup details).

If I'm faced with the first case (keep it or send it back), what would you say I should do? In one hand, I love the sound of Topre switches (heard a lot of sound tests online) and it's great for typing. I'll be doing a lot of coding so yeah, it'll come handy i think. And surely my fingers are itching to try the Topre, I mean I have it right here!

On the other hand, the keyboard is a bit too compact! Although I don't mind the lack of actual F-keys, the Home-End-PgUp-PgDn are pressed with the Fn key on this keytboard and I don't really like that. I prefer them to be where they're supposed to. Also, I'll have to pay 100$ more, it's the price difference of the keyboards. Does a Topre keyboard worth the extra 100$?

Of course I'll have to hear from EliteKeyboards first and decide later, but so far what're your thoughts?


EDIT: Buyer of the Topre keyboard contacted me and we've arranged to exchange our respective keyboards.

[snoopy]

God sent you topre switches instead of crappy browns!

[vun]

It's a sign, keep it.

Although don't listen to me, I do want one of those boards so I'd keep it, I dunno what you want. Topre is less common though, so sticking to the Topre for now and getting a board with MX laters would be fairly easy, saves you having to deal with US shipping more than once.

[microsoft windows]

I'D SEND IT BACK AND TRY AND GET ALL THE MONEY BACK FOR THE TOPRE BOARD. THEN YOU'LL END UP WITH $100 MORE IN YOUR POCKET THAN YOU STARTED WITH!

[mauri]

Thock thock, said the topre cunningly.

[vasouv]

Oh god freaking dam*it! It's Labour Day over there so I'm not getting any response from them until tomorrow! This freaking itch!

Three people are telling me to keep it, and microsoft windows thought I said "stickup" instead of "mixup" :PPP

I'm pretty sure I can keep it, but I'm trying to control myself and not open it until I get a response...

[mauri]

Considering you could've been an arse and keep the board without saying a word you can prolly work something out with the EK guys. I've got no clue about their return policy, there was some mention about a restocking fee, but not about shipping costs which should b deductable from the extra 90 quid.

[tp4tissue]

legally, it's yours...

Morally, whatever, it's their fault, had they not been drinking early, this wouldn't have happened

[esoomenona]

I've place three orders from EK. Only one came right. Why is it that they can't send an order properly? Has this always been a problem of theirs?

[oscillik]

I recently ordered a HHKB Pro 2 from them, first time buyer.

I really hope this isn't par for the course...

[vasouv]

Well, I didn't want to explain the mixup but I'll have to, it's not entirely EK's fault.

A couple of days after the keyboard reached Greece (not my home though), they sent me an email saying that they shipped the wrong order to me and that it was meant for another guy. They asked if I could reship it they'd give me the extra shipping costs.

I told them that I wasn't actually home, I'm out of town for a couple of months and I told a friend of mine to pick up the keyboard. I wasn't sure if he could reship it (don't ask). I thought it was the same keyboard I ordered, but for another person.

He got the keyboard for me today and called me right away. Then I found out it was an entirely different keyboard.

Also, today I found out that I may be able to go back to my parents' house (I ordered the keyboard to go there), so I may be able to send it back. But I won't be able to hear from them until tomorrow.

That's the whole thing. I did know it was a wrong order, didn't know it was an entirely different keyboard (they didn't specify that in the email, I wasn't bright enough to realise that).

So yeah, I couldn have not told them today and don't know if they'd contact me, after I emailed them about my inability to reship the order, they didn't get back to me. A big part of this is my fault for sure...

[oscillik]

I dunno, you didn't send yourself the wrong order...

that's what I'm concerned about. from what esoomenona has said, along with your account, I'm getting concerned for my own order!

I hope everything works out for you vasouv (and for me of course!)

still no idea what you'll do?

[daerid]

This happened a while ago to another poster (can't remember who at the moment) where he was accidentally sent a much more expensive board than he ordered. He asked the same question, and he also was leaning towards keeping it. Long story short, he got absolutely blasted by the community, and elitekeyboards was pretty unhappy about it as well, talking about theft and pressing charges.

[Tym]

Not sure about your laws, but its an interesting debacle, over here (UK) you are allowed to keep it, if you tell them and they don't do anything for 2 weeks, them asking you to send it back doesn't count, they have to have a courier stop at your door. Otherwise wait an month (without telling them) and its yours too keep.

Its even better for you because in Greece US laws don't count, so I have no idea how that would effect it, don't think you'll be deported and taken to Guantanamo for $100.

1. Sell it if you don't like it, buy the correct keyboard [maybe EK will ban you from their store?]
2. #######
3. Profit ?

[calavera]

Most important is the layout. If you don't think you'll get used to it then there's no point in keeping it and shelling out extra $ even if every time you type you get mini orgasms.

[oscillik]

This happened a while ago to another poster (can't remember who at the moment) where he was accidentally sent a much more expensive board than he ordered. He asked the same question, and he also was leaning towards keeping it. Long story short, he got absolutely blasted by the community, and elitekeyboards was pretty unhappy about it as well, talking about theft and pressing charges.

ohh dear, board drama!

seems like OP here is willing to pay the difference, if he does decide to keep it.

[daerid]

Most important is the layout. If you don't think you'll get used to it then there's no point in keeping it and shelling out extra $ even if every time you type you get mini orgasms.

Truth. I still think the HHKB is the pinnacle of switch feel, but I had to get rid of mine because my right hand would start to hurt every time I typed on it due to the layout.

[tp4tissue]

I've attempted to do the right thing several times, and each time, The retailer are the ones too lazy to fix THEIR problem... and you end up having to waste your time doing all the communication, and getting super slow responses

EK should just suck it up.

[chill1217]

i don't see the dilemma.  it's not your order, it's someone else's.  so regardless of whether you want the keyboard or not, the right thing to do is to re-ship it to the correct address.  then if you decide you want the topre keyboard, order it yourself.

[chill1217]

I've attempted to do the right thing several times, and each time, The retailer are the ones too lazy to fix THEIR problem... and you end up having to waste your time doing all the communication, and getting super slow responses

EK should just suck it up.

Show Image

i've found that true for small items where the cost of shipping outweighs the trouble of returning/restocking.  but for expensive items, the vendor definitely wants to fix it.

"super slow responses".... is 7 hours of delay during the middle of the night on a holiday.... really?

[mauri]

I've attempted to do the right thing several times, and each time, The retailer are the ones too lazy to fix THEIR problem... and you end up having to waste your time doing all the communication, and getting super slow responses

EK should just suck it up.

Show Image

i've found that true for small items where the cost of shipping outweighs the trouble of returning/restocking.  but for expensive items, the vendor definitely wants to fix it.

"super slow responses".... is 7 hours of delay during the middle of the night on a holiday.... really?

Wouldn't take a single word that comes out of tp4s mouth seriously, figuratively

[Lycoth]

I've attempted to do the right thing several times, and each time, The retailer are the ones too lazy to fix THEIR problem... and you end up having to waste your time doing all the communication, and getting super slow responses

EK should just suck it up.

Show Image

I'd somewhat agree. If EK are willing to put the effort in to rectify their problem, then i'd just play along and get the keyboard you wanted (Especially as you're not 100% sure about keeping this board). But if they're going to be ungraceful / unhelpful about it then i'd keep it and either sell it on to make up the price difference to get what you wanted / keep it for use.

I don't think at any point in this incident you're to blame. You've been as helpful as most people would be in this situation towards EK. Will see what happens when you get a reply.

[jameslr]

In my opinion you should do your best to help them out since in all likelihood they would help you out if there was a mixup. It's entirely up to you though. Is a $200 board worth being a douche about? Not really. Yeah it's inconvenient, but these are the dilemmas we face every day on whether to do the right or wrong thing. Choose the right thing even though you don't stand to profit off of it. It's called being decent. Karma will pay you back in the end.

[esoomenona]

Although EK has messed up ~67% of my orders, they have definitely done their part to correct them, so that won't be the issue. The problem really is why does it happen so much? It's a waste of money to make so many mistakes that you have to correct, and I'm sure at the bottom line, it doesn't come out of their pocket so much it does out of the customers.

[Hypersphere]

I have never had a problem with orders from EK, and I have found them to be responsive to customer inquiries.

IMO, the right thing to do is contact EK about the mix-up and ask about your options.

Regarding the keyboards, I have had a Leopold FC660M with blues for over a month and just got my FC660C with Topre switches last week. I've posted reviews of these boards over on DT. Bottom line: I think the FC660C is far better than the FC660M for typing. From my perspective, the only drawback with the Topre board is the current lack of availability of high-quality dye-sub PBT replacement keycaps.

[dbme]

>> Is a $200 board worth being a douche about?

It's not like if EK is going to ask you to:
- Give away your f*cking free time to go to the post office.
- Pay in advance around $50 of your own money for the shipping.
- Wait for another 10 days to get your keyboard (assuming they trusts you and
  don't wait to receive what you sent before doing anything).

Oh and we are talking about $100, the amount of money you would received if
you worked instead of doing this round trip to the post office.

Keep it, you and the other guy will both win $100 (you in upgrade, him in a MX
board). Mistakes appends, in this case EK will have to pay for it. I promise
you they won't suffer from this loss.

[vasouv]

One thing's for sure, I'm definitely waiting 'till tomorrow to see if I get a response. It's normal working day tomorrow for the US so they'll see my email.

No, I definitely don't want to be a douche, at the end I didn't get what I wanted and it was a wrong order anyway. The reason I've not opened it yet is mainly what daerid said, I'm not quite sure about the layout and I won't be sure unless I open the package, and if I do that I might be forced to keep it.

Oh and hell I'm not waiting till it gets back and them then sending my correct order, if I return the package I'll scan the post office receipt (or what the heck it's called) and email it to them, they can send to me the correct package the next day.

They can press charges if they want, I'll be waiting for the black helicopter, blasting Manowar through my speakers!

[AKIMbO]

What's the cost to ship the board back to the US and for EK to ship a board out to you?  It's probably huge...at least close to the cost of one FC660.  My money is on EK telling you to keep the board.

[vun]

What's the cost to ship the board back to the US and for EK to ship a board out to you?  It's probably huge...at least close to the cost of one FC660.  My money is on EK telling you to keep the board.

My experience is that shipping something like that to Europe is 50 USD, that is quite a bit in shipping if you're going to be sending things back and forth.

[vasouv]

Shipping costs were ~50$, it was quite painful to see that on my EK receipt when the keyboard I ordered was 89$.

They told me they'd reimburse the shipping costs, it's not money out of my pocket never to be seen again. In that case though, they're just earning 50$ if I send it back.

Come to think of it, I don't believe it'd be significantly cheaper if I ordered a Das from Germany or a Filco from UK, transfer costs seems to be about the same no matter the currency.

[mauri]

Shipping costs were ~50$, it was quite painful to see that on my EK receipt when the keyboard I ordered was 89$.

They told me they'd reimburse the shipping costs, it's not money out of my pocket never to be seen again. In that case though, they're just earning 50$ if I send it back.

Come to think of it, I don't believe it'd be significantly cheaper if I ordered a Das from Germany or a Filco from UK, transfer costs seems to be about the same no matter the currency.

Nobody sells high end mech boards in greece x_x?

[OlivierBlanvillain]

What's the cost to ship the board back to the US and for EK to ship a board out to you?

It cost me $56.56 of shipping, plus another $40 in customs clearance (Switzerland...). I guess we are going to send each other our respective packages, saving EK $50-$100 compared to what it would cost to send me another FC660C.

In the meantime, feel free to open the keyboard and try it out, I'm not the kind of person that is obsessed about the newness of things : ). It's not every day that you have Topre keyboard doing a trip to your house.

[vasouv]

Nobody sells high end mech boards in greece x_x?

Nope, most stores that have mechanical keyboards have either couple of Razer Blackwidows or a couple of Corsairs and that's it.

@Olivier: Let's go via PM

[Obakemono]

When something like this happens to me, what really annoys me, is my lost time, once i pay for something, i want it asap.
It's indeed time i paid that i should be using my item, and that's what i feel needs to be compensated.

We buyers are usually very kind about this, but we should rage a bit more, cause nothing is more valuable than time.

[vasouv]

What good would rage bring though? Wouldn't bring our correct stuff any sooner

Eh, as long as everything gets sort out... An overseas company with 7hrs timezone difference isn't the easiest medium, but eventually we're getting what we ordered

[oscillik]

oh wow, I completely forgot about the customs duty / VAT issue here.

that changes things a lot, at least it would for me. now I really hope that my order will be fine!

[vun]

oh wow, I completely forgot about the customs duty / VAT issue here.

that changes things a lot, at least it would for me. now I really hope that my order will be fine!

afaik you only have to pay that if it's goods you've bought, gifts should be exempt, and I'd say that anything other than what you paid for should be labeled as a gift. For instance juggling misplaced orders like here.
dunno what the actual law states, though, but from what I've heard if you want to make sure that a gift is not mistaken for something else you could just add a friendly note saying "thanks for letting me borrow this" or something, regardless of whether you borrowed it or not. However, vendors caught doing this can get in trouble.

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I had to keep track of it all.

[Shuki]

I think half of the topre board is the build quality of the realforce. The keycaps and the construction. Although I have never tried any topre but a realforce I have mx boards in reds blues and browns (ducky and filco) and while nice boards, the keyboard itself (not the switches) is just a bit above on the realforce boards.

[abdulmuhsee]

Honestly, you should sue them for psychological damage, making you stare at that brand new Topre without laying a finger on it before making a special trip to the post office to send it back :-).  How have you not ripped it open yet?

[Obakemono]

What good would rage bring though? Wouldn't bring our correct stuff any sooner

Eh, as long as everything gets sort out... An overseas company with 7hrs timezone difference isn't the easiest medium, but eventually we're getting what we ordered

What we should get with some rage when this happens is to get the companies to get used to compensate us for their mistakes when it takes our time.
Eventually you will get what you PAYED, the have your money, they make a mistake, you got nothing.

I mean, i buy something at some price and agree to get it in a given time, because i want or need it on that time, not in two months, it's even possible that the item gets devaluated in the meantime. I think we customers should be compensated for that, free total shipping cost as a minimal standard.

[vun]

What good would rage bring though? Wouldn't bring our correct stuff any sooner

Eh, as long as everything gets sort out... An overseas company with 7hrs timezone difference isn't the easiest medium, but eventually we're getting what we ordered

What we should get with some rage when this happens is to get the companies to get used to compensate us for their mistakes when it takes our time.
Eventually you will get what you PAYED, the have your money, they make a mistake, you got nothing.

I mean, i buy something at some price and agree to get it in a given time, because i want or need it on that time, not in two months, it's even possible that the item gets devaluated in the meantime. I think we customers should be compensated for that, free total shipping cost as a minimal standard.

But this all depends on the situation; often the seller has no control after the product has left their hands, and while I would say that it is up to them to make sure the customer gets the item, even if it gets lost in the mail, they can not be held responsible for a delay in delivery. As far as complaining when the company makes a mistake; this is all nice and well when dealing with big faceless corporations, but when you're dealing with smaller businesses you wish to deal with later then it would be in your best interest to not be a **** and go out of your way to make their day worse. Keep in mind that the person on the other end is also a human being and did not make the mistake on purpose.

[oscillik]

oh wow, I completely forgot about the customs duty / VAT issue here.

that changes things a lot, at least it would for me. now I really hope that my order will be fine!

afaik you only have to pay that if it's goods you've bought, gifts should be exempt, and I'd say that anything other than what you paid for should be labeled as a gift. For instance juggling misplaced orders like here.
dunno what the actual law states, though, but from what I've heard if you want to make sure that a gift is not mistaken for something else you could just add a friendly note saying "thanks for letting me borrow this" or something, regardless of whether you borrowed it or not. However, vendors caught doing this can get in trouble.

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I had to keep track of it all.

this gets very complicated, depending on the country that the item is being sent to. in my case, even if an item is sent to me as a 'gift' I will still be charged Customs duty & VAT.

not only that, but if the Customs Declaration filled in by EK is for the wrong item (the incorrect item, rather than the right order) then this gets more complicated.

Also, because this would be sent by 'standard postal services', the Customs duty and VAT must be paid before delivery of the item is completed.

So yeah, for me living in England, if this were to happen to me, it would be a massive problem. I have no idea how it works in Greece though...

[vun]

oh wow, I completely forgot about the customs duty / VAT issue here.

that changes things a lot, at least it would for me. now I really hope that my order will be fine!

afaik you only have to pay that if it's goods you've bought, gifts should be exempt, and I'd say that anything other than what you paid for should be labeled as a gift. For instance juggling misplaced orders like here.
dunno what the actual law states, though, but from what I've heard if you want to make sure that a gift is not mistaken for something else you could just add a friendly note saying "thanks for letting me borrow this" or something, regardless of whether you borrowed it or not. However, vendors caught doing this can get in trouble.

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I had to keep track of it all.

this gets very complicated, depending on the country that the item is being sent to. in my case, even if an item is sent to me as a 'gift' I will still be charged Customs duty & VAT.

not only that, but if the Customs Declaration filled in by EK is for the wrong item (the incorrect item, rather than the right order) then this gets more complicated.

Also, because this would be sent by 'standard postal services', the Customs duty and VAT must be paid before delivery of the item is completed.

So yeah, for me living in England, if this were to happen to me, it would be a massive problem. I have no idea how it works in Greece though...

Oh right, I forgot about the vital part; value. If the item is below a certain value then it is exempt, or you can mark a more expensive value below the limit and hope they don't find out. Most stores won't do this if you ask them to because they can get in major trouble for doing so.

[Obakemono]

What good would rage bring though? Wouldn't bring our correct stuff any sooner

Eh, as long as everything gets sort out... An overseas company with 7hrs timezone difference isn't the easiest medium, but eventually we're getting what we ordered

What we should get with some rage when this happens is to get the companies to get used to compensate us for their mistakes when it takes our time.
Eventually you will get what you PAYED, the have your money, they make a mistake, you got nothing.

I mean, i buy something at some price and agree to get it in a given time, because i want or need it on that time, not in two months, it's even possible that the item gets devaluated in the meantime. I think we customers should be compensated for that, free total shipping cost as a minimal standard.

But this all depends on the situation; often the seller has no control after the product has left their hands, and while I would say that it is up to them to make sure the customer gets the item, even if it gets lost in the mail, they can not be held responsible for a delay in delivery. As far as complaining when the company makes a mistake; this is all nice and well when dealing with big faceless corporations, but when you're dealing with smaller businesses you wish to deal with later then it would be in your best interest to not be a **** and go out of your way to make their day worse. Keep in mind that the person on the other end is also a human being and did not make the mistake on purpose.

Of course i'm not talking about the cases when the seller has no control.
I understand the part of being kind with small companies, but when making the mistake becomes the usual, then something is wrong.

[oscillik]

oh wow, I completely forgot about the customs duty / VAT issue here.

that changes things a lot, at least it would for me. now I really hope that my order will be fine!

afaik you only have to pay that if it's goods you've bought, gifts should be exempt, and I'd say that anything other than what you paid for should be labeled as a gift. For instance juggling misplaced orders like here.
dunno what the actual law states, though, but from what I've heard if you want to make sure that a gift is not mistaken for something else you could just add a friendly note saying "thanks for letting me borrow this" or something, regardless of whether you borrowed it or not. However, vendors caught doing this can get in trouble.

But I may be wrong, it's been a while since I had to keep track of it all.

this gets very complicated, depending on the country that the item is being sent to. in my case, even if an item is sent to me as a 'gift' I will still be charged Customs duty & VAT.

not only that, but if the Customs Declaration filled in by EK is for the wrong item (the incorrect item, rather than the right order) then this gets more complicated.

Also, because this would be sent by 'standard postal services', the Customs duty and VAT must be paid before delivery of the item is completed.

So yeah, for me living in England, if this were to happen to me, it would be a massive problem. I have no idea how it works in Greece though...

Oh right, I forgot about the vital part; value. If the item is below a certain value then it is exempt, or you can mark a more expensive value below the limit and hope they don't find out. Most stores won't do this if you ask them to because they can get in major trouble for doing so.

Indeed, and quite rightly because it's technically fraudulent.


vasouv have you spoken to EK about the customs/tax issue already?

[vasouv]

vasouv have you spoken to EK about the customs/tax issue already?

I don't think I have to, I didn't pay any other tax for my purchase. Nothing is mentioned in my Paypal receipt and the courier just dropped off the package this morning and left.

Perhaps it's different for the UK and Switzerland? Or maybe the sum above which we have to pay customs in Greece, is higher? I don't know, in fact I don't recall paying any customs taxes in the past. My father has bought stuff quite a few times from Australia and don't think he's payed any extra.

[Hypersphere]

In the USA, I think there are no customs duty charges on items valued at less than 200 USD. I suppose each country might have its own threshold value for duty charges.

[Emospence]

This happened a while ago to another poster (can't remember who at the moment) where he was accidentally sent a much more expensive board than he ordered. He asked the same question, and he also was leaning towards keeping it. Long story short, he got absolutely blasted by the community, and elitekeyboards was pretty unhappy about it as well, talking about theft and pressing charges.

So this happens on a regular basis?

[chill1217]

So this happens on a regular basis?

no, or they wouldn't be in business.  i ordered from EK and my shipment was correct and fine.

[funkymeeba]

This happened a while ago to another poster (can't remember who at the moment) where he was accidentally sent a much more expensive board than he ordered. He asked the same question, and he also was leaning towards keeping it. Long story short, he got absolutely blasted by the community, and elitekeyboards was pretty unhappy about it as well, talking about theft and pressing charges.

I remember this happening. The person in question got in trouble with EK because they posted a FS thread for the Topre board instead of returning it straight away, then they tried to pass it off as a joke. EK wasn't too happy about the whole thing.