Best (topre?) Spacesaving Keyboard

[1pq]

I got the das keyboard for mac, my first ever mechanical keyboard, about a year ago, and I've liked it a lot. More recently, though, I've been reading a lot about topre and spacesaving boards and I was wondering what everyone's recommendations are. I'd like to get something tenkeyless or smaller so that I can have my mouse closer to my keyboard.

As far as topre, does anybody own both the HHKB Pro 2 and a leopold FC 660C? Right now I'm leaning towards the leopold, since it has a more normal layout (although I'd remap caps lock to control). I don't really want to have to re-learn the positions of the arrow keys, backslash, and delete. Plus, on elitekeyboards, the leopold is $70 cheaper. The HHKB just looks so much sexier, though . For anyone who's owned one, is it easy to learn the hhkb layout? Also, how do realforce tenkeyless boards compare to these two? They look as good as the hhkbs and are exactly between the Leopold and HHKB in price.

[Polymer]

The HHKB will be the warmest sounding of the three.  The Leopold will have more Thock than the RF's though...

There is no way to tell how you'll adjust to the FN layer of the HHKB.  Some people do it with ease and some just never get used to it. 

I would say that if you're using the arrow keys a lot, go w/ the Leopold.

My personal experience w/ the FN layer was I tried to use the left FN+arrow keys but that wasn't working out well..for that I'd prefer more of a IJKL type arrow key layout..

Then I forced myself to use the right fn key w/ my pinky and that put the arrow keys in a better position for using with a single hand....and now it is quite natural to do..

Is the HHKB worth the extra money over the leopold?  I dunno..the keycaps are a lot better but beyond that, I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference either way. 

[Emospence]

The HHKB will be the warmest sounding of the three.  The Leopold will have more Thock than the RF's though...

There is no way to tell how you'll adjust to the FN layer of the HHKB.  Some people do it with ease and some just never get used to it. 

I would say that if you're using the arrow keys a lot, go w/ the Leopold.

My personal experience w/ the FN layer was I tried to use the left FN+arrow keys but that wasn't working out well..for that I'd prefer more of a IJKL type arrow key layout..

Then I forced myself to use the right fn key w/ my pinky and that put the arrow keys in a better position for using with a single hand....and now it is quite natural to do..

Is the HHKB worth the extra money over the leopold?  I dunno..the keycaps are a lot better but beyond that, I'm not sure it'll make a huge difference either way.

Am I on head-fi?  )

[ComradeSniper]

After using both for a few weeks now I prefer the HHKB. The switches (in my opinion) feel nicer and once you've adjusted to it you will wish that every keyboard had the HHKB layout. I thought the arrow key position was perfect with the Fn key in the default spot.

I do find myself having some trouble switching back and forth between the HHKB and any other board, mainly with backspace, but I am quickly able to adjust after a little bit of typing.

Both are excellent boards though, and you can't go wrong either way.

[cactux]

You have to try them first and judgw by yourself. Diferent boards, layouts, etc. How hard or easy is to get used to hhkb is the same question. Some guys want to use it  only few times and expect to learn the new layout. Others  do not give up until they learn the layout

[1pq]

Comrade, how often do you use the arrow keys? How easy was it for you to adjust to the HHKB arrow keys?

[terran5992]

Happy hacking without a doubt

[ComradeSniper]

Comrade, how often do you use the arrow keys? How easy was it for you to adjust to the HHKB arrow keys?

I use them quite often for general browsing and text editing. I had no trouble at all adjusting to the arrow key position, it feels really natural in relation to the rest of the keys. The backspace and control locations were what tripped me up at first.

[Polymer]

Am I on head-fi?  )

Haha..well that is just how I describe it...Some people just say it has more thock.....but not everyone will prefer that sound over the others...it is going to be personal preference. 

The flipside of that coin is I think the RF is the quietest out of three (comparing the normal models).

[1pq]

The flipside of that coin is I think the RF is the quietest out of three (comparing the normal models).

Is that good or bad? lol
I certainly enjoy the sound of the MX Blues, and I won't be using this keyboard anywhere where it will disturb anyone. From what I've heard on youtube, the sound of the topres seem fine.

[rowdy]

I have the HHKB on a Mac and it's fine.  On a Mac you can use standard control characters to move to beginning of line, delete character and so on, which you can't do on Windows.

I do still miss the arrow keys, but only because I use a TKL keyboard on Windows at work all day.

If you really, really need the arrow keys, get the FC660C.  Otherwise HHKB is great!

[Emospence]

Is that good or bad? lol
I certainly enjoy the sound of the MX Blues, and I won't be using this keyboard anywhere where it will disturb anyone. From what I've heard on youtube, the sound of the topres seem fine.

My HHKB (non Type-S) is so, so quiet..

[spiceBar]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

[Emospence]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

Make one?

[spiceBar]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

Make one?

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

[Emospence]

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

I don't have an excuse,  I just have a reason.

It's only a sig.

[AuRinBei]

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

I don't have an excuse,  I just have a reason.

It's only a sig.

I don't even see how it's wrong.

[neunelfer]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

Make one?

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

Where is this coming from? Are you jealous because you settled for a Leopold instead or something?

[spiceBar]

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

I don't have an excuse,  I just have a reason.

It's only a sig.

I don't even see how it's wrong.

There is no "/" key because the right Shift key is too long.

[spiceBar]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

Make one?

Come on. It's really easy to fix, you have no excuse. You cannot be THAT lazy, can you?

Where is this coming from? Are you jealous because you settled for a Leopold instead or something?

Which Leopold are you talking about?

[neunelfer]

The 60% with Topre switches, the topic of this thread.

[spiceBar]

The 60% with Topre switches, the topic of this thread.

Oh, the FC660C. I did not know if you were referring to one of my Realforce or to the FC660C.

Well I have not settled for any of the keyboards you see in my signature. I'm considering purchasing an HHKB actually. I'm not sure I will do it because I fear I will not be able to adapt to the layout, but I love the look of it, obviously. And it is a glaring hole in my small collection.

It is precisely because I am considering the HHKB and that I have spent a lot of time looking at pictures of it that I noticed the mistake in the pixel art.

At this time I use the Realforce 87U, but I love all the keyboards I own and every time I see one I can't help touching it and typing something on it, even if it's not even connected.

[tp4tissue]

You should look into getting the TOPRE SPLIT keyboard the muTron (u Tron)

I heard that thing's da bomb...

It's got MOST of the features of the Egdx.....

[spiceBar]

You should look into getting the TOPRE SPLIT keyboard the muTron (u Tron)

I heard that thing's da bomb...

It's got MOST of the features of the Egdx.....

Show Image

Interesting!

I have found this review:
  http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

Apparently the problem is how to purchase one.

[1pq]

Apparently the problem is how to purchase one.

Or the $600 price tag

[rowdy]

You should look into getting the TOPRE SPLIT keyboard the muTron (u Tron)

I heard that thing's da bomb...

It's got MOST of the features of the Egdx.....

Show Image

Interesting!

I have found this review:
  http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

Apparently the problem is how to purchase one.

Xah Lee - haven't heard that name for a while!

[tp4tissue]

You should look into getting the TOPRE SPLIT keyboard the muTron (u Tron)

I heard that thing's da bomb...

It's got MOST of the features of the Egdx.....

Show Image

Interesting!

I have found this review:
  http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

Apparently the problem is how to purchase one.

Xah Lee - haven't heard that name for a while!

In chinese   Xah is also Xia or Xiah..   

[rowdy]

You should look into getting the TOPRE SPLIT keyboard the muTron (u Tron)

I heard that thing's da bomb...

It's got MOST of the features of the Egdx.....

Show Image

Interesting!

I have found this review:
  http://xahlee.info/kbd/uTRON_keyboard.html

Apparently the problem is how to purchase one.

Xah Lee - haven't heard that name for a while!

In chinese   Xah is also Xia or Xiah..   

Perhaps, but the web site is unmistakable.

[spiceBar]

For all of you with a HHKB pixel art in their signature: the picture is WRONG.

Make one?

OK, I was wrong. The HHKB pixel art was not wrong, it was totally wrong. There were several mistakes in it. Missing "/" key, space bar too short, left bottom key too big... And more.

I have created a new HHKB pixel art, so in case you want to fix your signature you will find it on page 35 of this thread:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19113.1020

[Emospence]

OK, I was wrong. The HHKB pixel art was not wrong, it was totally wrong. There were several mistakes in it. Missing "/" key, space bar too short, left bottom key too big... And more.

I have created a new HHKB pixel art, so in case you want to fix your signature you will find it on page 35 of this thread:
  http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=19113.1020

<3

[ValerieV]

I have both keyboards but i prefer the HHKB. The question you may want to answer is how important are individual arrow keys? Also, the Leopold is less expensive. I don't think you will regret either choice.

[1pq]

I have both keyboards but i prefer the HHKB. The question you may want to answer is how important are individual arrow keys? Also, the Leopold is less expensive. I don't think you will regret either choice.

I guess I was just wondering how easy it is to use the HHKB arrow keys. I do a lot of programming, and often I have to navigate back and forth a lot, and using the arrow keys/modifiers on the keyboard is a lot faster than the mouse. The HHKB layout seems a lot better since it would be less space to access the arrow keys, but I was just wondering how practical it is (since you're pressing one more key), as well as how easy it is to adjust. From what I've heard, I'm about 70% sure that I'll go with the HHKB, assuming I can save up enough for one :3

[rowdy]

I have both keyboards but i prefer the HHKB. The question you may want to answer is how important are individual arrow keys? Also, the Leopold is less expensive. I don't think you will regret either choice.

I guess I was just wondering how easy it is to use the HHKB arrow keys. I do a lot of programming, and often I have to navigate back and forth a lot, and using the arrow keys/modifiers on the keyboard is a lot faster than the mouse. The HHKB layout seems a lot better since it would be less space to access the arrow keys, but I was just wondering how practical it is (since you're pressing one more key), as well as how easy it is to adjust. From what I've heard, I'm about 70% sure that I'll go with the HHKB, assuming I can save up enough for one :3

I found it awkward.

If you are using Windows, then it is not only the arrow keys, but also Home, End, PgUp, PgDown and so on that you will need to retrain yourself for.

On the FC660C if I undrestand correctly as well as the labelled keys, you can also Fn+left arrow for home, Fn+right arrow for End, Fn+up for page up, and Fn+down for page down.

The arrow keys is the one thing I miss on the HHKB, but I use it on my Mac which supports standard Ctrl sequences, such as Ctrl-A for beginning of line.

[1pq]

Yeah, I'd be using it on a mac as well, so I don't think pageup etc would be a problem. Also, I do often use control sequences for line navigation (although usually in terminal). I'd have to get a bit more familiar with them, though. Do you use them exclusively, and not the arrow keys at all? Are the arrow keys that annoying to use with the function layer?

[rowdy]

Yeah, I'd be using it on a mac as well, so I don't think pageup etc would be a problem. Also, I do often use control sequences for line navigation (although usually in terminal). I'd have to get a bit more familiar with them, though. Do you use them exclusively, and not the arrow keys at all? Are the arrow keys that annoying to use with the function layer?

Page Up works slightly differently on the Mac compared to Windows, and I spend all day using Windows, so it's taking me even longer to acclimatise to the HHKB.

Editing in Terminal I use mostly control sequences, but I also use up and down arrows to recall previous commands.

At the moment I am using my Model M on my Mac, and I'd have to switch back to the HHKB to see what keys I instinctively use now )

[1pq]

Page Up works slightly differently on the Mac compared to Windows, and I spend all day using Windows, so it's taking me even longer to acclimatise to the HHKB.

Editing in Terminal I use mostly control sequences, but I also use up and down arrows to recall previous commands.

At the moment I am using my Model M on my Mac, and I'd have to switch back to the HHKB to see what keys I instinctively use now )

Do you program at all? Have you ever used the HHKB with an editor like Sublime Text to navigate? I guess that's what I'm most worried about. It could either be great, or terrible. I find myself using the arrow keys a lot, but maybe I should try using the control sequences more...

[rowdy]

Page Up works slightly differently on the Mac compared to Windows, and I spend all day using Windows, so it's taking me even longer to acclimatise to the HHKB.

Editing in Terminal I use mostly control sequences, but I also use up and down arrows to recall previous commands.

At the moment I am using my Model M on my Mac, and I'd have to switch back to the HHKB to see what keys I instinctively use now )

Do you program at all? Have you ever used the HHKB with an editor like Sublime Text to navigate? I guess that's what I'm most worried about. It could either be great, or terrible. I find myself using the arrow keys a lot, but maybe I should try using the control sequences more...

Do I program?  Only as part of my vocation

I tried the HHKB at work under Windows 7, but that was just after I got it and spent most of the time squinting at the side-printed auxiliary function labels.  Far too used to a conventional TKL layout under Windows.

So I took it back home and use it on my Mac, sometimes for programming, mostly for emails and games kinda stuff.

One day I might bring it back into work and see how I go, but I suspect that things will not have changed that much.