Author Topic: Best laptop keyboard for a writer/programmer? (Read 32450 times)

LouisHjelmslev · « **on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:33:34 »

It's about time I need to go for a new laptop, nothing special in terms of hardware, of course other than the keyboard! Does anyone have any suggestions on laptops with solid keyboards for when I'm on the go? When I'm at home, I'm switching between my clears and blues, and it would be great if my laptop keyboard could be of similar quality.

terran5992 · « **Reply #1 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:36:46 »

They are all chiclet . Not gonna be much difference

tp4tissue · « **Reply #2 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:37:08 »

Quote from: LouisHjelmslev on Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:33:34

It's about time I need to go for a new laptop, nothing special in terms of hardware, of course other than the keyboard! Does anyone have any suggestions on laptops with solid keyboards for when I'm on the go? When I'm at home, I'm switching between my clears and blues, and it would be great if my laptop keyboard could be of similar quality.

the new lenovo islands is pretty decent in terms of feel.. I still prefer their original scissors but, the new one's good.

all the other manufacturers don't standardize their laptop keyboards. so you get many variations.

If you're a programmer, you're probably gonna need a macbook.. so... not much choice..

LouisHjelmslev · « **Reply #3 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:49:49 »

Hmmm, something about me just can't commit to the MB's. However, the Lenovo's are interesting, particularly between the t440s and the X1 Carbon. Does anyone have any experience with these?
I know the standards are much lower, and less consistent, but hey, just seeing what the best of the mediocre selection can be.

johndavis33 · « **Reply #4 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:26:40 »

Lenovo's thinkpad line are the only laptops with decent keyboards, and the ones on the older thinkpads were better.

If you're not compiling anything big and your biggest worry is keyboard quality, then getting a used t420 would be a good idea. Thinkpads have the best build quality you can get, and most of the used ones you'll find online come from businesses who are upgrading their equipment, and therefore are ussually taken care of very well. I've bought many used thinkpads before, and they're all great. Hell, I have an old one from the late 90s still running windows 95 that runs like a charm even after years of abuse. But, yeah, the t420 was the last thinkpad to have what i'd consider to be a true thinkpad keyboard, i.e. not chiclet and the right amount of rows. It has the best hardware inside that you could get for a laptop when it came out, which wasthe time sandy bridge was released.

randomist · « **Reply #5 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:52:00 »

Poker 2? If you really want a nice keyboard on a laptop you kind of have to carry it with you IMO.

And I don't see why a programmer would need a macbook? I was always taught programming languages on Linux Machines which have all the common compilers built in and have plenty of readily available editors and IDEs.

daerid · « **Reply #6 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:59:56 »

Seriously, I'd just get a decent 60%. Most laptop boards are horrible for extended writing periods. Something like a Tex Beetle or Poker 2.

tuananh_bkk · « **Reply #7 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 20:13:55 »

a second vote for 60% keyboard. I can't go back to the full size keyboards now

johndavis33 · « **Reply #8 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:16:19 »

I know this may sound like heresy, but the keyboard on my t61p is better than some mechanical keyboards I've used. I'm a heavy typist and I'd rather my laptop's keyboard over lighter switches like blues, browns, or reds.

terran5992 · « **Reply #9 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:11:36 »

Quote from: johndavis33 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:16:19

I know this may sound like heresy, but the keyboard on my t61p is better than some mechanical keyboards I've used. I'm a heavy typist and I'd rather my laptop's keyboard over lighter switches like blues, browns, or reds.

0.o hows it different?

Canious · « **Reply #10 on:** Thu, 19 December 2013, 22:32:23 »

I actually struggled with this quite a bit myself. I've probably tested at least 5 laptops (purchased and returned) and also tried couple dozen more at best buy. From my experience the Lenovo thinkpad series and the HP computers were fairly good. I would stay away from samsung/asus/sony even toshiba, i have not had any good experience with their keyboards. I ultimately ended up up getting a macbook pro 2013 retina edition, i never thought i would, and i still don't believe it myself but i really can't say enough good thing about this. Its the first laptop experience that made me "wow" and the keyboard i personally feel is the best out of all the competitors. You should check it out if the budget allows.

LouisHjelmslev · « **Reply #11 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 03:49:25 »

Thanks a lot for the input everyone.
It seems like there are 3 common options:
1. Lenovo
2. MacBooks
3. 60%
As stated, I know the MB's must be good... I just can't get myself to have one. So between Lenovo's and 60%'s... hmmm, great excuse for another keyboard?

Grim Fandango · « **Reply #12 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:06:15 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:36:46

They are all chiclet . Not gonna be much difference

This is so annoying. You used to be able to get a halfdecent keyboard on laptops. Now however, they are really all chiclet with only a few exceptions.

Though my sister types incredibly fast on those chiclet keys, so you can get used to them (she was over 100 WPM first try when I asked her to try on 10fastfingers.com).

The other thing is the layout. If you do not want it to be cramped or have an odd layout, and you want a full numpad, you are probably looking at 17 inch laptops.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #13 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:24:21 »

Quote from: Grim Fandango on Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:06:15

This is so annoying. You used to be able to get a halfdecent keyboard on laptops. Now however, they are really all chiclet with only a few exceptions.

This is my solution:

BlackWidowMan777 · « **Reply #14 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:03:11 »

^^ I like that setup

Now, that they can put the guts of the computer behind a touchscreen it should be possible to have a hybrid mechanical keyboard/tablet. Maybe mk's aren't mainstream enough yet, but maybe for a gaming laptop from say MSI.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #15 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:49:32 »

Quote from: BlackWidowMan777 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:03:11

^^ I like that setup

Now, that they can put the guts of the computer behind a touchscreen it should be possible to have a hybrid mechanical keyboard/tablet. Maybe mk's aren't mainstream enough yet, but maybe for a gaming laptop from say MSI.

Yes - I considered getting a tablet and just docking it on that keyboard, but all tablets have those crap locked-down operating systems. I'd want a 17" 4K touchpad running OSX 10.6 with USB port and SD slot. Sadly, that will never exist.

terran5992 · « **Reply #16 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:57:17 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:24:21

Quote from: Grim Fandango on Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:06:15
This is so annoying. You used to be able to get a halfdecent keyboard on laptops. Now however, they are really all chiclet with only a few exceptions.

This is my solution:

Show Image

Is that a hall effect?

takethree · « **Reply #17 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:04:18 »

Quote from: johndavis33 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:26:40

Lenovo's thinkpad line are the only laptops with decent keyboards, and the ones on the older thinkpads were better.

If you're not compiling anything big and your biggest worry is keyboard quality, then getting a used t420 would be a good idea. Thinkpads have the best build quality you can get, and most of the used ones you'll find online come from businesses who are upgrading their equipment, and therefore are ussually taken care of very well. I've bought many used thinkpads before, and they're all great. Hell, I have an old one from the late 90s still running windows 95 that runs like a charm even after years of abuse. But, yeah, the t420 was the last thinkpad to have what i'd consider to be a true thinkpad keyboard, i.e. not chiclet and the right amount of rows. It has the best hardware inside that you could get for a laptop when it came out, which wasthe time sandy bridge was released.

^This

mr_a500 · « **Reply #18 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:05:07 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:57:17

Is that a hall effect?

It's beam spring - IBM 3278. Here's a larger photo:

(hall effect numpad just out of frame on the left)

takethree · « **Reply #19 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:15:30 »

Hands down the Thinkpad series laptops. The Macbook or any other brand has nothing on these.

I have tried both the old Thinkpad keyboard and the new island type as well. I'm impartial to either as they are both great. But get the ones from the Thinkpad line. Preferably the W, X and T series. Even within that line the keys vary. The Thinkpad X1 Carbon for e.g. although has a good keyboard, is shallower than those with the Wxxx, Txxx and Xxxx designation like the W530, T430, X230 etc. Those have deeper and more tactile keyboards. I have a Thinkpad T530 and I find the keyboard better than some of my full size keyboards from rubber domes to some Cherry MXs. The Thinkpad line is the only one I would even consider for a great typing keyboard. I wouldn't bother with Macbooks with their shallow chiclet style keyboards. Bear in mind though that the older Thinkpad keyboards have a different layout from the newer island type. I find the older arrangement much superior but I can live with both. Good size keys, wide spacing and good tactility.

I'm talking purely about the keyboards of course.

Linkbane · « **Reply #20 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:42:38 »

My mother owns a Thinkpad and the keys on it are quite nice for any laptop that I've used. I also really like the Steelseries laptop keyboard on MSI laptops as well, they have a nice pressure and the keys themselves feel thicker and heavier, with a nice long travel.

terran5992 · « **Reply #21 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:04:12 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 07:05:07

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:57:17
Is that a hall effect?
It's beam spring - IBM 3278. Here's a larger photo:

Show Image

(hall effect numpad just out of frame on the left)

Wow that looks amazing. How does a beamspring feel like?

Could you make a video?

mr_a500 · « **Reply #22 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:14:28 »

I closed my Youtube account, so I can't upload a video, but I found a beam spring video here:

Mine sounds basically the same, but without the dog whimper.

sprk · « **Reply #23 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:19:41 »

I can also recommend the thinkpad series, specially the scissor switch on pre T/W4/530 models. Currently typing this reply on a T420 and although it's not a mech keyboard, the keyboard is pretty decent. I do have an issue with the thickness of the case which doesn't allow me to type for more than an hour or two without some bad fatigue, but that is to be expected from a flat thick keyboard. I've heard great things about the t430 style keyboard, but I tend to be very had on chiclet style keyboards as they have minimal travel. If I was to get one of those I'd probably get the Carbon X1

terran5992 · « **Reply #24 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:20:53 »

Sounds like an old typewriter . I love it

One more question how does it feel?

takethree · « **Reply #25 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:25:02 »

Quote from: johndavis33 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 21:16:19

I know this may sound like heresy, but the keyboard on my t61p is better than some mechanical keyboards I've used. I'm a heavy typist and I'd rather my laptop's keyboard over lighter switches like blues, browns, or reds.

^This

Had an older T42 in my old workplace and those were great to type on. Prefer it over any rubber domes. Wasn't into mechanical keyboards back then.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #26 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:31:15 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 08:20:53

Sounds like an old typewriter . I love it

One more question how does it feel?

It's hard to describe. It's like a more substantial Model F, more "plonky" than "plinky". The keys feel as solid as dice. The springs remind me of the sound when cranking a "jack-in-the-box".

So it's like "pressing frosted dice on snappy plonky metal on a spring day with wind in your hair before a thunderstorm with machine gun fire in the background". I think that's a pretty accurate description.

Folio · « **Reply #27 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 11:46:07 »

Quote from: LouisHjelmslev on Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:49:49

Hmmm, something about me just can't commit to the MB's. However, the Lenovo's are interesting, particularly between the t440s and the X1 Carbon. Does anyone have any experience with these?
I know the standards are much lower, and less consistent, but hey, just seeing what the best of the mediocre selection can be.

I've had the 2012 model X1 Carbon from Lenovo for half a year now. All I can say are good things about it. The keyboard is the new chiclet type as opposed to their old fashioned scissors, but I sometimes yearn to type on it more than on my desktop keyboards (this feeling has developed over time as I got used to the keyboard). It still feels good and tactile.

I also have a Lenovo T61 at work with the old key switches, and I can say they are a bit more snappy, but those older laptops are a ***** to lug around. Also, the keys are a bit smaller compared to the chiclet style keys because they are beveled and raised, so there's more room for error. Lenovo did an amazing job at improving accuracy with their flatter, bigger chiclet/island style keys with that curve on the bottom. I top 100 WPM on it every time.

Like others have said, you could also just get any laptop you want that fits your needs and just buy a separate compact keyboard like the HHKB2.

indivisualist · « **Reply #28 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 12:42:36 »

Developer who likes to type a lot here. Let's assume you want no extra keyboard; I'm sure you already explored this option.
I owned an older ThinkPad, a MacBook Pro and now a ThinkPad with the current chiclet-style switches. Additionally I have typed every now and then on various other laptop keyboards. My favorite is the current ThinkPad keyboard, I like it even better than the old ones - although I seem to be in the minority on this one. They are available with a backlight, if that's a "must have" for you. The older ThinkPad keyboards get a very close second place, and I think the Apple keyboards are okay ... as long as you don't switch between this flat keys and regular ones, than they get weird.

If you need to do some serious writing on the go, you really should think about getting your favorite 60% keyboard and prop it up Stallman-style. But hey, I have some problems with regular membrane keyboards, but using my trusty ThinkPad for a whole day is not out of the question.

ideus · « **Reply #29 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 13:05:19 »

Quote from: johndavis33 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:26:40

Lenovo's thinkpad line are the only laptops with decent keyboards, and the ones on the older thinkpads were better.

If you're not compiling anything big and your biggest worry is keyboard quality, then getting a used t420 would be a good idea. Thinkpads have the best build quality you can get, and most of the used ones you'll find online come from businesses who are upgrading their equipment, and therefore are ussually taken care of very well. I've bought many used thinkpads before, and they're all great. Hell, I have an old one from the late 90s still running windows 95 that runs like a charm even after years of abuse. But, yeah, the t420 was the last thinkpad to have what i'd consider to be a true thinkpad keyboard, i.e. not chiclet and the right amount of rows. It has the best hardware inside that you could get for a laptop when it came out, which wasthe time sandy bridge was released.

I still use an old X61 just for its keyboard. Besides my desktop and other laptops I have, the X61 keyboard rules them all. Besides the trackpoint is a keyboard lover dream.

Quality built? These old thinkpads are tanks, they have port replicator bases so you don't have to connect and reconnect peripherals.

Any way I mostly use my FC660 board for input, I use the thinkpad's board while at lectures and on trips.

Findecanor · « **Reply #30 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 14:38:18 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 18:36:46

They are all chiclet . Not gonna be much difference

I would avoid the recent MacBooks models with no optical drive. The key travel is very shallow these days even on the recent MacBook Pro.

Quote from: johndavis33 on Thu, 19 December 2013, 19:26:40

If you're not compiling anything big and your biggest worry is keyboard quality, then getting a used t420 would be a good idea. Thinkpads have the best build quality you can get, and most of the used ones you'll find online come from businesses who are upgrading their equipment, and therefore are ussually taken care of very well.

I have worn out a letter key on a old-type Thinkpad keyboard at work. It was used as the primary keyboard - no external keyboard. The company's name began with that letter, and therefore did many variable names. I took 1 1/2 years of daily wear from the day it was new. I got a new keyboard though the support agreement with Lenovo.

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:49:32

I'd want a 17" 4K touchpad running OSX 10.6 with USB port and SD slot. Sadly, that will never exist.

Not big enough. I know that 17" touch-screen Windows 8 tablets do exist .. the question is of they could be used for Hackintosh like the MS Surface.

Mr. C · « **Reply #31 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 15:45:37 »

Currently I would go with Dell XPS 18 and Leopold FC660C and Logitech Marathon Mouse.
Although I wish they move them to 4th gen i7.

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/xps-18-1810/pd?refid=xps-18-1810&baynote_bnrank=1&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch&isredir=true

mooswa · « **Reply #32 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 17:33:25 »

Another vote for lenovo. T440s is a pretty sweet option right now.

BlackWidowMan777 · « **Reply #33 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 17:55:04 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:49:32

Quote from: BlackWidowMan777 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 06:03:11
^^ I like that setup

Now, that they can put the guts of the computer behind a touchscreen it should be possible to have a hybrid mechanical keyboard/tablet. Maybe mk's aren't mainstream enough yet, but maybe for a gaming laptop from say MSI.

Yes - I considered getting a tablet and just docking it on that keyboard, but all tablets have those crap locked-down operating systems. I'd want a 17" 4K touchpad running OSX 10.6 with USB port and SD slot. Sadly, that will never exist.

Btw - I followed your quest for your perfect keyboard (and I mean quest) over at VC with much interest. Am glad you've found it and it's working

Have you seen the Lenovo thinkpad helix? It can run Linux, windows. Just a bit rich for me ATM. It's much more powerful than the surface pro.

edit: someone managed to get 10.8.3 running on the helix (though with issues) so maybe one day soon....

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=110076&sid=2e6f71da93709ec569f81a573e76a1e4

terran5992 · « **Reply #34 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01 »

I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

BlackWidowMan777 · « **Reply #35 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:52:32 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01

I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

Would you buy it if it looked like this?

[ Specified attachment is not available ]

Pacifist · « **Reply #36 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:52:42 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01

I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

size issues

the switches are pretty big. scissor switches are pretty tiny in comparision

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #37 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:24:23 »

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01

I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

They did back in the day....

1pq · « **Reply #38 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:38:26 »

Quote from: SpAmRaY on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:24:23

Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01
I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

They did back in the day....

Back when this 16 pound monstrosity was called a laptop...

SpAmRaY · « **Reply #39 on:** Fri, 20 December 2013, 23:23:36 »

^^ sometimes the weight makes it all better....

Findecanor · « **Reply #40 on:** Sat, 21 December 2013, 16:36:29 »

Quote from: 1pq on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:38:26

Back when this 16 pound monstrosity was called a laptop...

Show Image

The Macintosh Portable is a classic. Even the local electronics recycling place has one on display, because they respect it too much to dismantle it.

Grim Fandango · « **Reply #41 on:** Sat, 21 December 2013, 18:31:54 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:24:21

Quote from: Grim Fandango on Fri, 20 December 2013, 05:06:15
This is so annoying. You used to be able to get a halfdecent keyboard on laptops. Now however, they are really all chiclet with only a few exceptions.

This is my solution:

Show Image

Looks great :D , though I am guessing you are not taking that with you in a backpack. It would be the most badass but unpractical thing.

SonOfSonOfSpock · « **Reply #42 on:** Sat, 21 December 2013, 19:15:04 »

If you end up going with a separate keyboard, a TKL scissor switch or rubber dome keyboard might be lighter and easier to carry around compared to a TKL mechanical. It'd use a similar technology as the laptop keyboard, but might be of better quality. Not sure how mobile you need to be, but the difference in weight might mean you actually take it with you. Also, you're more likely to find a wireless scissor or rubber dome than a wireless mechanical keyboard.

terran5992 · « **Reply #43 on:** Sat, 21 December 2013, 19:48:38 »

Quote from: 1pq on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:38:26

Quote from: SpAmRaY on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:24:23
Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01
I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

They did back in the day....

Back when this 16 pound monstrosity was called a laptop...

Show Image

Those were the good days

opensecret · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 22 December 2013, 00:51:16 »

I'd add one more vote for Thinkpads. I think I'm on my fourth, currently a T510, and the superior quality of the keyboards -- for a laptop, that is -- is the major reason I stick with the brand.

mr_a500 · « **Reply #45 on:** Tue, 24 December 2013, 21:42:04 »

Quote from: BlackWidowMan777 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 17:55:04

Btw - I followed your quest for your perfect keyboard (and I mean quest) over at VC with much interest. Am glad you've found it and it's working

Thanks. Yes, that was a 5-year long quest and it's finally over... until I find an even better keyboard.

Quote from: 1pq on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:38:26

Quote from: SpAmRaY on Fri, 20 December 2013, 22:24:23
Quote from: terran5992 on Fri, 20 December 2013, 21:41:01
I wonder why dont they create a laptop with a mechanical keyboard

They did back in the day....

Back when this 16 pound monstrosity was called a laptop...

Show Image

This 1983 notebook has a nice ALPS keyboard:

(on top of Macbook Pro for size comparison)

... but it has 24k RAM and runs at 2.4MHz. I still type notes with it occasionally. You can program with it too... but only in BASIC. :D

Mr. C · « **Reply #46 on:** Wed, 01 January 2014, 15:02:51 »

This 1983 notebook has a nice ALPS keyboard:

(on top of Macbook Pro for size comparison)

... but it has 24k RAM and runs at 2.4MHz. I still type notes with it occasionally. You can program with it too... but only in BASIC.

[/quote]
Wow that brings back memories. I had one for a year or two. It was cool in it's day. Thanks for the mental wayback.

Linkbane · « **Reply #47 on:** Wed, 01 January 2014, 16:33:20 »

Quote from: mr_a500 on Tue, 24 December 2013, 21:42:04

This 1983 notebook has a nice ALPS keyboard:
Show Image

(on top of Macbook Pro for size comparison)

... but it has 24k RAM and runs at 2.4MHz. I still type notes with it occasionally. You can program with it too... but only in BASIC. :D

Lovely looking, but that format. :-X
Can't stand that caps lock placement.

LouisHjelmslev · « **Reply #48 on:** Wed, 01 January 2014, 16:56:37 »

Quote

This 1983 notebook has a nice ALPS keyboard:
Show Image

(on top of Macbook Pro for size comparison)

... but it has 24k RAM and runs at 2.4MHz. I still type notes with it occasionally. You can program with it too... but only in BASIC. :D

Damn that looks nice! I could overlook the Caps Lock, but I'd prefer Tandy over Radio Shack!

MJ45 · « **Reply #49 on:** Wed, 01 January 2014, 18:59:56 »

The HHKB Pro 2 is the the best all-around 60% keyboard for laptop use IMO, its small size and light weight make it ideal for any platform (Win, Mac, or unix) laptops.

News:

Author Topic: Best laptop keyboard for a writer/programmer? (Read 32450 times)