Difference between switch colours?

[greyhame]

Hi guys,
I'm a total newb at this, but here goes:
Can anyone explain to me the difference between the colours of switches? I've read several posts and reviews labelling brown, blue, and black switches and I know they have to do with how hard you have to press in order to type, but can anyone give me more detail? I've heard blue switches are best for typing, but are they? Are browns just as good?
I suppose it could just be subjective but any insight is very much appreciated!

[Photekq]

It is entirely subjective. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Check this out : http://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX

Also, welcome to geekhack.

[ideus]

Get a tester and try them for yourself. It is always better to experience them directly, even if it is only one switch of each one.

[greyhame]

Thanks guys for the welcome and advice
am currently looking for places to try them out right now, times like these it  sucks living in a country town...
 

[ideus]

If you can try a full board with each type of switch that would be the best way to go.

[Stevenator21]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

[ideus]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

I like this. Looks like a mini keypad. Good tip.

[RESPRiT]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

Would it be $15 off full price though? Because CM boards are overpriced at their full retail costs if you ask me, especially seeing how low they can get on sale

[tp4tissue]

the most important thing to remember is that VINTAGE black is often a lighter shade of black than the Modern Mx black..

Makes a world of difference...

[1pq]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

Would it be $15 off full price though? Because CM boards are overpriced at their full retail costs if you ask me, especially seeing how low they can get on sale

Yes -- the deal is not as good as it seems because the $15 is off the full retail price. Still, it's only $15...

[tp4tissue]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

Would it be $15 off full price though? Because CM boards are overpriced at their full retail costs if you ask me, especially seeing how low they can get on sale

Yes -- the deal is not as good as it seems because the $15 is off the full retail price. Still, it's only $15...

yup.. it's a trick to get you to commit to a full retail price board..

because it's unlikely that you'll buy the switch tester, then wait for their sale..

and if you wait for their sale, the sale would be over by the time you got to use the switch tester..


Mx blue Quickfire Rapid goes for as low as $45 on sale

Mx Brown and Red, I've seen as low as $70

Quickfire [PRO] of all switch variant, I've seen for as low as $55

[RESPRiT]

You can get this switch tester. If you decide to get a CM Board, you can get $15 off, which is the price of the tester.

Would it be $15 off full price though? Because CM boards are overpriced at their full retail costs if you ask me, especially seeing how low they can get on sale

Yes -- the deal is not as good as it seems because the $15 is off the full retail price. Still, it's only $15...

yup.. it's a trick to get you to commit to a full retail price board..

because it's unlikely that you'll buy the switch tester, then wait for their sale..

and if you wait for their sale, the sale would be over by the time you got to use the switch tester..


Mx blue Quickfire Rapid goes for as low as $45 on sale

Mx Brown and Red, I've seen as low as $70

Quickfire [PRO] of all switch variant, I've seen for as low as $55

Ay, CM boards are simply overpriced at their retail prices, the quality to price ratio just isn't quite there.

[PointyFox]

The most common MX switches are  red, black, brown, and blue.

The most simple ones are the red and black.  They're both linear in force.  If you bottom out all the time, they'll be the best of the four.  The red switch provides less force than the black, and there is less of a force gradient, making it easier to accidentally press than the black.  The reds started out as a custom switch made by the Japanese to market to gamers.  Keep in mind that there's only around 30% difference in force between red and black.  Women, kids, and people with hand/wrist injuries tend to like red better.

Brown switches are like the linear ones, but they have a little bump before the actuation.  These are viable for both people who don't bottom out all the way and people who do since the bump is pretty minor.  It serves as a tactile clue as to when the key will actuate. 

Blues are the most complicated of the four.  They click and have a sharp increase in force as they actuate.  Due to the added complexity of the parts required, this creates a more complex force profile and a difference in the actuation and reset points for the click.  This can result in a situation where the click and force increase do not happen upon actuation.  This mostly affects double tapping or key spamming.
See this thread about it: http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=52873.0

Of course, selection of switch depends on why you're looking for a new keyboard.  There may be a cheaper option based on your requirements, or you might not like any of the MX switches.

[1pq]

As PointyFox mentioned, MX switches are not the only type of switch out there. You should also research buckling spring, alps, and topre if you want to make a very educated decision on a board. If you're just getting into mechanical keyboards, though, getting one with one of the four most common mx switches (blue, brown, red, black) is probably the easiest and most economical.

[greyhame]

Thanks guys this is all really helpful
What are the green and white switches on the tester? Custom? And the board of choice for many users on this forum I've noticed is the Filco.... Majestouch (I think?) brown. Just generally, why is that?

Also, does the difference in force regress down with each colour switch? So would brown have less than red, blue have less than brown etc.?

I am fishing for a new board, my family had an 'adult' christmas this year, which means gifts ranged from toiletries to undies And every time I look up a mechanical keyboard, this little voice says "treat.yo.self." 

I found this (http://www.keyboardlover.com/switches.php) explanation of MX's and Topre's that does a pretty good job (even has gifs of what it looks like internally when pressing each kind of mx) and clarifies that the 'white' switch I was confused about ^^ is a clear. But does anyone know what the green is? And I think I can answer my own question about the Filco browns - is it common because Filco is a reliable company and that browns are the middle point of switches?

It really looks like it does come down to going out and testing a few keyboards (or getting a tester). I have no idea what kind of typer I am, but the review in the above link does give a pretty good opinion of what keyboard might suit either a heavy or light typer (and just mentally keeping track of how I'm typing right now I'm probably a light). If MX's are the most common then it looks like that would be a good starting point for a board, but I will do some more research, thanks

[Pacifist]

Thanks guys this is all really helpful
What are the green and white switches on the tester? Custom? And the board of choice for many users on this forum I've noticed is the Filco.... Majestouch (I think?) brown. Just generally, why is that?

Also, does the difference in force regress down with each colour switch? So would brown have less than red, blue have less than brown etc.?

I am fishing for a new board, my family had an 'adult' christmas this year, which means gifts ranged from toiletries to undies And every time I look up a mechanical keyboard, this little voice says "treat.yo.self." 

I found this (http://www.keyboardlover.com/switches.php) explanation of MX's and Topre's that does a pretty good job (even has gifs of what it looks like internally when pressing each kind of mx) and clarifies that the 'white' switch I was confused about ^^ is a clear. But does anyone know what the green is? And I think I can answer my own question about the Filco browns - is it common because Filco is a reliable company and that browns are the middle point of switches?

It really looks like it does come down to going out and testing a few keyboards.. (or getting a tester) I have no idea what kind of typer I am. If MX's are the most common then it looks like that would be a good starting point for a board, but I will do some more research, thanks

greens are heavier blues. whites are a more muted green. Filco  build quality is high. Brown is a common starter switch. Brown blue red have same 45g force. green black have 60g. clears 80g

[Puddsy]

Green and white switches are just less popular than r/b/br/bl. They both use 80g springs, and are clicky.

The reason the filco MJ2 is so popular is because of it's very high build quality, easiness to mod, and standard layouts in many languages. I own 2 myself, and I daily drive the one with reds. It's awesome. I've spilled into my other one (a multicam edition) twice, and it still works like a charm. The miniLA (also a filco, but a zany layout) has been dropped, spilled in, vacuumed, and it still works like it did when I bought it.

The force thing is a personal preference. I personally like 60g and less.

The CM quickfire boards are also worth a look for people newer to mech keyboards. My first board was a QFR. They're made by the same OEM as Filco, but with slightly cheaper parts. I used that board daily, 10 hours (sometimes more) gaming every day, and it still works great.

[swill]

Something worth noting at this point since spring weight has started to come into this discussion.

There are two scales which switch springs are measured on and it is rarely noted which scale is being used. With some experience you will start to figure out which scale is being used.

- cherry determines spring weight based on the weight at the actuation point.
- the Korean scale determines spring weight based on the weight at bottom out.

This means that a 60g Korean scale spring will be lighter than a 60g cherry scale spring.

All of the spring weights that have been referenced so far in this thread are referring to the cherry scale.

You usually only have to worry about this if you plan to change the springs in your switches. A lot of the springs that are sold on their own are measured on the Korean scale.

A common example of this is with clear switches. Clears are like browns but with a more defined tactile bump and a heavier spring. Many people create ergo clear switches by putting a lighter spring in the clear switch. You will often see something like '62g ergo clears'. The 62g in this case usually refers to the Korean scale.

I would add a bunch of links, but I am on my phone. I can add some references later if there are questions.

[Puddsy]

I totally forgot to mention that.

Thanks, Swill!

[greyhame]

Yeah, thanks man, links would be well appreciated. The article I posted earlier mentions ergo clears, sounded like an interesting mod so the more information the better

[tbc]

This means that a 60g Korean scale spring will be lighter than a 60g cherry scale spring.

just to confirm, you're saying the 1 korean g/cn is LESS than 1 cherry g/cn?

[SpAmRaY]

This means that a 60g Korean scale spring will be lighter than a 60g cherry scale spring.

just to confirm, you're saying the 1 korean g/cn is LESS than 1 cherry g/cn?

It has more to do with one measure dealing with actuation and the other with bottom out force.

[tbc]

so cherry is measuring spring force + force needed to get past the switch's tactile bump + friction from the stem grinding against the switch housing?  but korean measurements are effectively measuring the spring outside of the switch?

EDIT:

is there a simple list somewhere ordering switches and custom springs from lightest to heaviest?

[TheSoulhunter]

is there a simple list somewhere ordering switches and custom springs from lightest to heaviest?

http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=46449.msg981041#msg981041

[swill]

so cherry is measuring spring force + force needed to get past the switch's tactile bump + friction from the stem grinding against the switch housing?  but korean measurements are effectively measuring the spring outside of the switch?

EDIT:

is there a simple list somewhere ordering switches and custom springs from lightest to heaviest?

No. It is simply the point at which the spring is measured.

Korean is measured when the spring is fully depressed.

Cherry is measured when the spring is only partially depressed (at the actuation point).

Springs get harder to press the more depressed they are.

[TheSoulhunter]

Looking at Cherry's measurement graphs it seems they do the measurement of the full switch...
The graphs show the tactile bump and they start with the spring already compressed at zero travel.

[swill]

Looking at Cherry's measurement graphs it seems they do the measurement of the full switch...
The graphs have show the tactile bump and they start with the spring already compressed at zero travel.

I didn't realize that.  Can you link the reference?

[TheSoulhunter]

http://www.fentek-ind.com/images/CHERRY_MX_keyswitch.pdf
http://www.cherrycorp.com/english/switches/pdf/mx_cat.pdf

EDIT: In the first PDF the actuation / tactile point seems to be mixed up for Browns

[Jarlaxle]

http://cherry-professional-gaming.com/EN/index.html

check out this link!

[greyhame]

So why the difference between measurement systems do we know? Or are they simply just two different kinds of measuring? Sorry if this was already covered.

So, so far I have learned that there is a plethora of different switches within mechanical keyboards. Of these, MX Cherry's seem to be the most common.
The most common types of these are red, black, brown and blue - each differing on what level of resistance against the typist's fingers they contain via differing features in their design: whether they contain tactile bumps and clicks, tactile bumps but no clicks, or neither (and to what level these occur).

The order of switches requiring the most force to push goes: black, red, brown, and blue, with black requiring the most force and blue requiring the least.
Black switches also neither have a tactile bump nor click, reds also have neither but are lighter than blacks, browns contain a tactile bump but no click, and blues contain a tactile bump as well as a click.
Depending on gaming/typing style the choice of switch is subjective.
Another website and a thread from another forum (I hope that's ok to post here?) and from posts we've already seen, much detail can be seen on specifically how each switch works, why, and what for (plus there are pictures - yay pictures!  ).

http://www.pcworld.com/article/242037/mechanical_keyboard_faq_pick_the_right_switch.html

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide#post_6009482

Is that all right so far? Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[tbc]

The order of switches requiring the most force to push goes: black, red, brown, and blue, with black requiring the most force and blue requiring the least.

heaviest to weakest:

black
blue
brown
red

the last 3 all have the same spring (effectively), but the internal components add additional friction that requries additional force to voercome.  red has no bump, so no additional friction.  brown has a small bump.  I THINK blue has a bigger bump (but it also has an additional moving part inside that will add additional friction even if the blue bump is the same as the brown bump)

[TheSoulhunter]

The order of switches requiring the most force to push goes: black, red, brown, and blue, with black requiring the most force and blue requiring the least.

heaviest to weakest:

black
blue
brown
red

the last 3 all have the same spring (effectively), but the internal components add additional friction that requries additional force to voercome.  red has no bump, so no additional friction.  brown has a small bump.  I THINK blue has a bigger bump (but it also has an additional moving part inside that will add additional friction even if the blue bump is the same as the brown bump)

More or less...
The force needed to overcome the tactile bump in blues is slightly higher (~5g) than in browns,
but the actuation point (which is after the bump) is actually more or less the same force for both, not sure about reds (probably also the same), just blacks are higher.