Author Topic: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.  (Read 11795 times)

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Offline Novus

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Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 20:58:08 »
My current setup is
1) SSD – 250GB (Windows, Microsoft Office, Adobe Products and other various system programs)
2) WD – 1TB Black Caviar drive (Games, Music)
3) Seagate -- 700GB. Salvaged from an older PC. 5400 RPM (Everything else - Used as my current drive for downloads, movies and etc)
4) External 1TB Drive (Backups)

Essentially this new drive will be a heavy-use media center for me. I’m looking for a reliable, long lasting drive that I will use to
1) Download large files and torrent
2) Store and watch large movie files and other media
3) Backup other drives
I won't be gaming on this drive.

I'm looking to grab a 3TB drive within a reasonable price range.
From my research, my choices seem to be limited between Western Digital, Seagate and possibly Toshiba.

So I'm debating between these:
1) Western Digital Green Caviar
2) Western Digital Red NAS
3) Seagate Barracuda
4) Toshiba Hard Drive


I'm currently leaning on a Western Digital Green Caviar 3TB.

I know that the Western Digital Green and Reds are "slower" drives and the Barracuda spins at 7200RPM. I won't be using the Western Digital Red drives for their NAS and networking functions. The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive. While, the Seagate Barracuda seems to be a better performing drive - I'm not sure if I want to go for this since this is media storage drive. Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:04:58 »
1) crap
2) Literally the worst choice on the board
3) crap
4) crap

Get a WD Caviar Black, never look back.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:43:34 by kmiller8 »

Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:14:25 »
Damn I only have 1.5gb and a 1gb. I just bought my wife a 2gb though. i use wd but i got her seagate, thats what she likes.

Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:18:50 »
Damn I only have 1.5gb and a 1gb. I just bought my wife a 2gb though. i use wd but i got her seagate, thats what she likes.

Hopefully, you aren't talking to us from your pentium 2 and thinking how great 128k DSL is.

Caviar black or one of them hybrid drives.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:18:52 »
No real experience with the Reds or the Toshibas, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

The Caviar Green I had was fine. Nothing really bad about it.
Every Seagate I've had has died rather quickly. Cannot recommend.

From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS.

I'd say Greens are probably your best option from the 4.

Dammit, I need to grab a couple of 3 TB drives.

EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

EDIT 2: Amended recommendation
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:26:54 by inteli722 »
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:21:22 »
From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS, so if you need ensured reliability, then I'd guess Reds are your best option.

No. I forgot to mention, DO NOT BUY WD REDS FOR YOUR COMPUTER. They are designed for NAS's not due to "ensured reliablity" but they don't spin down as often as a normal drive does, along with some other F/W Tweaks. The WD Reds will give you no benefit in a consumer computer, and you are just wasting money.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:22:40 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:24:42 »
I got 2 Reds for redundant external storage because of 1. 3-year warranty, and 2. they were on a sale when I got them :)  For internal storage, I'd definitely go with Black for the warranty, otherwise 1tb-platter Blue.
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Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:25:06 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #9 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:26:25 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:26:26 »
And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

Offline demik

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:27:47 »
my caviar black died within 6 months of owning it :(

my spinpoint has been going strong for 3 years now
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:28:12 »
my caviar black died within 6 months of owning it :(

my spinpoint has been going strong for 3 years now

There's always that one guy.  This time it's you.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:29:10 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.
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Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:30:33 »
For longevity statistics, have a look here:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1442015/et-how-long-do-hard-drives-actually-live-for

And there's a link to an older, more encompassing google study in that thread as well.

Basically, if drives fail due to defects, they usually fail within the first few months.  That's why it's good to stress-test a drive when you first get it by filling it up completely and erasing a couple of times.  If there are any mechanical faults, they will be more likely to show up.  After that, drive failure rate is mostly very low, until some less significant imperfections and general wear begin to cause failures a few years into use.
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Offline tjcaustin

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #15 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:31:11 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.

You mean like how he did here:


 Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.

But still has it on the list?  Maybe tone down the sanctimony

Offline demik

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:31:49 »
good.

while it worked, the caviar performed wonderfully.

but i just had some bad luck because my 5870 died a day after my warranty was up. but my 460 has been good.

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Offline 127001

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:34:34 »
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:37:07 by 127001 »

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #18 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:36:03 »
EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

that $60 gets you a drive that performs 15% better and comes with a warranty lasting 3 years longer. I'd say well worth it, especially when it comes to something like hard drives.

And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

Where are you getting that he has a budget besides "duh, everyone has a budget"?  He also asks for other suggestions.  We complied.


And that could be $60 he doesn't have to spare right now. If I had $130 to spend on a hard drive, I could care less about what $60 more gets me.

He has a budget, and he's asking for which of the four drives he's already picked out.

The topic is "Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive" so telling him he has to spend $60 to get a not "terrible terrible" hard drive is doing exactly what he's asking us to do if his budget really is strict.

He also has:

Quote
The Western Digital black series is, of course, a very good hard drive but I feel that it would be wasted as a media storage drive.

Suggesting a drive he's already ruled out isn't giving him additional suggestions.

You mean like how he did here:


 Toshiba has a very bad reputation when it comes to consumer hard drives.

Any insights on which drive to pick or any other suggestions?
Thanks.

But still has it on the list?  Maybe tone down the sanctimony

And all he did was list what he saw as his options in what he deems a reasonable price range.

He's aware of what a WD Black is, how it performs, and its longevity. It's pretty clear it's not within what he deems "a reasonable price", as he didn't include it on the list and he said he felt it'd be wasted. Maybe read and interpret what he says
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #19 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:40:58 »
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #20 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:42:51 »
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).

Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:46:40 »
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

Offline 127001

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:47:17 »
Get the WD Red.

It's designed to be at constant use at cost far less than enterprise drives. It is not crap, anyone who says that doesn't know what they are talking about at all.

You don't need speed. What you are doing doesn't require speed. This will be fast enough.

I have a bunch of Reds that I use in that same way in a RAID 5 format. I have some blacks in the same config which have failed twice; this is not a statistic however.

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/desktop/

just because you're using a hard drive optimized for RAID performance, doesn't mean it's the one-stop end to all hard drives.

Like I said earlier, Red drives are not meant for one-off storage devices, they are for NAS devices (which employ RAID in case you didn't know).

Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

Not being it RAID has nothing to do with it. It'll do just as well in JBOD config. It's design to be low heat and high longevity. This is what it'll do.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

HDDs != tires

Offline demik

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:47:34 »
well you'll be doing the florida friend a favor because he'll crash and die and wont have to live in florida anymore!
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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:49:56 »
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

+1

Just get a caviar black

The extra $60 is worth it

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Offline 127001

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:51:13 »
Considering it's optimized for RAID, which requires stability, I'd say they'd serve pretty well for media storage drives, which requires stability, albeit less so than RAID.

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

+1

Just get a caviar black

The extra $60 is worth it

Mine is still running like new after almost 2 years,

The black is a good drive.

He doesn't need it or it's overhead.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:51:32 »
Not being it RAID has nothing to do with it. It'll do just as well in JBOD config. It's design to be low heat and high longevity. This is what it'll do.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6157/western-digital-red-review-are-nasoptimized-hdds-worth-the-premium

Quote
WD touted the following main points

Less aggressive head parking (no IntelliPark feature)
Configurable Time Limited Error Recovery (TLER), with a default of 7 seconds
IntelliPower disk rotation speeds (comparable to Green drives)
Vibration reduction mechanism in hardware
3-Yr. warranty and 24x7 phone support

I don't see anything about low heat or high longevity. I do see FW optimizations for a RAID environment...

That is the most retarded chain of logic I've ever seen...

That's like putting ice tires on your car, then driving on the ice, where they obviously work, then recommending ice tires to your friend in florida because they worked so well for you.

HDDs != tires

Quote
A metaphor is a figure of speech that describes a subject by asserting that it is, on some point of comparison, the same as another otherwise unrelated object.

I was trying to put in terms so he could understand it better.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #27 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:55:20 »
Fine. OP's choice.

If you really think you need the Reds, then get the Reds. Otherwise, get Greens. No real point in getting Blacks for this task, and Blues don't come in 3TB.
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Offline 127001

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #28 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:56:35 »
All I can say is that's what the Reds are designed for: Low heat and high longevity. As a person who test's hard drives as there job this is what I would buy for the price.

That said: I would never set up a media server and not have it in RAID. Every disk will fail. It doesn't matter who made it. It doesn't matter how much it cost. It doesn't matter what it's firmware is. Every disk will fail.

If you have data that matter on a disk put it in RAID.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 21:58:54 by 127001 »

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #29 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:02:29 »
All I can say is that's what the Reds are designed for: Low heat and high longevity.

PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.

That said: I would never set up a media server and not have it in RAID. Every disk will fail. It doesn't matter who made it. It doesn't matter how much it cost. It doesn't matter what it's firmware is. Every disk will fail.

If you have data that matter on a disk put it in RAID.

RAID's expensive, both in cost, and lost possible storage. Also I'm not sure about OP, but 99% of my stored media is easily re-obtainable, through iTunes, or just ripping the disk myself again. So the cost of setting up a RAID device vastly outweighs the benefits.


Offline 127001

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:13:12 »
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:14:54 by 127001 »

Offline demik

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:16:46 »
iamdumb
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:27:50 by demik »
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:18:41 »
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

both of your links, there is mention of low heat ONCE in the articles (bhphoto). and twice in the comments (toms hardware)

Maybe, I don't know, check the "Power and Temperature" section on the Tom's Hardware article, where they were the coolest running drives out of the testing bunch?
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Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:18:44 »
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

Tomshardware:
Quote
Western Digital's Red family is positioned in between the desktop and nearline drives. They're meant neither for typical desktop usage nor for large 19-inch rack-mounted servers. Instead, they’re being aimed at home office and small office network-attached storage appliances.

bhphotovideo is cool with the thermal camera, but by only saying "competitor" makes me believe they picked a worst-case scenario. I'd like to see them compare it to other WD drives, or at least say what the drive really is.

and

Quote
This innovative line of SATA hard drives is specifically designed for home and small office network attached storage (NAS) enclosures with one to five drive bays.

Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:19:10 »
Holy crap I need to research hard drives better.. ;o I didnt know about these different colors. I just go on reviews, brand, and the price range after those two. I'm using Cable btw not DSL but I used to have DSL ;) Also I forgot about my externals. Two 1tb WDs. Does SeaGate really die quick? This one had good reviews.. Seagate Barracuda STBD2000101 2TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s I hope it is good for her! But yeah Ive never had over 1.5TB so I'm excited for her. Its crazy everyone here uses 3TB?  ;o I can see if you do Video editing or something.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:19:54 »
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

Tomshardware:
Quote
Western Digital's Red family is positioned in between the desktop and nearline drives. They're meant neither for typical desktop usage nor for large 19-inch rack-mounted servers. Instead, they’re being aimed at home office and small office network-attached storage appliances.

bhphotovideo is cool with the thermal camera, but by only saying "competitor" makes me believe they picked a worst-case scenario. I'd like to see them compare it to other WD drives, or at least say what the drive really is.

and

Quote
This innovative line of SATA hard drives is specifically designed for home and small office network attached storage (NAS) enclosures with one to five drive bays.



There you go!
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Offline demik

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:20:53 »
PLEASE show me a source for this, stop using something with no backing as one of the main points of your argument.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/red-wd20efrx-wd30efrx-nas,3248.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/computers/hands-reviews/western-digital-red-nas-internal-hard-drives-home-and-small-offices

Google.

I didn't bother posting this stuff because the OP is asking advise from people that know what they are talking about. Not for people to google stuff for them.

Done.

both of your links, there is mention of low heat ONCE in the articles (bhphoto). and twice in the comments (toms hardware)

Maybe, I don't know, check the "Power and Temperature" section on the Tom's Hardware article, where they were the coolest running drives out of the testing bunch?

yep, i saw it. no need for the attitude
No, he’s not around. How that sound to ya? Jot it down.

Offline kmiller8

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:23:33 »
Show Image


There you go!

compared to



showing a surface temperature hotspot of 50C, ~4C hotter than the "competitors" hotspot.

Offline damorgue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:30:05 »
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.


Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.

Offline inteli722

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:32:33 »
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.

Show Image

Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.

Well then. I suppose this tells you the answer. Heated Cabinets.

Really, based on this, I would get the Greens.
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Offline damorgue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #40 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:36:58 »
The cabinets were some fancy recyclable energy thingies where they used the excess heat from other components to regulate the temperature of the disks. It would be sort of stupid if they just placed heating elements in there.


A personal thought: The drives are such high tolerance that the manufacturers have likely taken thermal expansions into account when designing the drives. I wonder what temperature they design them for and if this ideal service temperature might differ from drive to drive.

Offline Photoelectric

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #41 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:44:15 »
Be aware that longevity decreases with lower temperatures unlike the opposite preconception common these days. The longest lifespan occurs if the drives are kept at around 40C.

Show Image

Google has a large amount of disks and data to support this and they were the ones who showed that preconception to be false. Google have implemented heated cabinets to increase the longevity of their disks.

Yes, my guess on that was that drives are designed for a specific tolerance window of physical expansion and contraction due to temperature changes (and corresponding air pressure), and it's uncommon for drives to be below room temperature.  On a related note, you haven't seen this, it's an interesting read about how precisely drives are manufactured and assembled:
http://www.overclock.net/t/1312694/information-as-to-why-not-to-open-a-hard-drive-to-repair-it

"In the past I have seen users ask about opening drives to attempt to do a platter swap and whatnot, but that is not  a feasible thing to do. Let me just go through a few things here as to why you should NEVER open a drive on your own and attempt a "fix".
 
Just the seemingly simple act of removing the cover on the drive will cause it to no longer work properly. The reason being is that each and every one of the screws on the cover have a specific torgue that they MUST be tightened with. The top cover with proper torque settings "set" the rest of the drive as the drive is calibrarted for the ever so slight warping of the casing caused by the torque from the screws on the cover!
 
Additionally dust is a HUGE concern. The heads that fly across the platters at 10000 Gs of acceleration are literally floating above the platters on a blanket of air caused by the platters spinning at 75MPH (7200RPM). These heads are just several 1000ths of an inch off the surface of the platter, so all it takes is a piece of dust to come along and it is hitting a car with a boulder. The platter and the heads can get damaged severely!
 
Along with the fact that the heads are "floating" across the plattters, they are also aligned within microns of where they have to be. Each drive has the heads aligned perfectly. Plus, you have to use a specific technique to get the heads back onto the platters if you remove the head stack and the heads have to be clean for proper functionality.
 
One last thing is the platters. They don't seem like much, but they are PERFECTLY aligned and tampering with the bolts that hold down the platters or even removing them can screw up the alignment of the platters. Not only are the aligned to be PERFECLY spaced (tolerances are within the 1000ths of an inch, if not less). Furthermore, they are also aligned so that the tracking information that is across all the platters are also perfect. If this is out of alignment even a hairs width, the data is in accessible as ALL the heads use this data to know where they are on the platters at all times. What this means is that platter swapping is COMLETELY out of the question, unless you got the equipment to realign the platters and tracking information (which differs from manufacture and even from drives from different manufacturing dates even though they are the same model). After that, realign the heads again (which differs from drive model and manufacturer and is a closely guided secret). If you do, then have fun. Then while you are at it, also re-write the firmware on the logic board so that it understands tracking information on the platters so it then knows how to modulation the voice coil to put the heads properly on the disk.
 
One last bit of trivia. You know that little hole on the drive that says "do not cover"? The drives operate to have the same air pressure as that on the outside and are not hermetically sealed. That is why when you go above 10000 feet you get head crashing and drive failure. There isn't enough air to float the heads across the platters.
 
 
This is a super simple down explaination. If you have questions, feel free to ask them here and I will answer them to the best of my ability.
 
 
TL;DR? DON'T OPEN HARD DRIVES!"
« Last Edit: Sat, 04 January 2014, 22:47:29 by Photoelectric »
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Offline korrelate

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #42 on: Sat, 04 January 2014, 23:23:42 »
No real experience with the Reds or the Toshibas, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

The Caviar Green I had was fine. Nothing really bad about it.
Every Seagate I've had has died rather quickly. Cannot recommend.

From what I've heard, Reds are just Greens with a stable rotation rate and ensured reliability because NAS.

I'd say Greens are probably your best option from the 4.

Dammit, I need to grab a couple of 3 TB drives.

EDIT: Also, guys, keep in mind he has a budget, and he's picked these drives based on his budget. From the 3 seconds of research I just did, WD Blacks are about $60 more expensive, so please stop suggesting them.

EDIT 2: Amended recommendation


I don't know about reds vs. Greens because I'm black across the board on platters, intel on ssds but I second everything said about seagate: everything i bought from them btw roughly 2005-2009 met a very early end. I've avoided them without exception ever since.

Topre REALFORCE

Offline Novus

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 01:52:33 »
Spirited Discussion.
I should have explicitly elaborated that I generally compartmentalize my hard drive usage so I don't quickly wear down a drive containing important files.
That's why I don't generally download large files directly into my SSD and don't have any games/movies on my SSD.
I would only be using this new drive to download large files and store/watch "non-essential" media. I wouldn't be using this drive for anything else since this already a load on the HD.

My thinking process is essentially that I already have a fast SSD as my main drive, a black caviar drive for gaming, another drive for "heavy loads/abuse" and I just want a reliable storage drive.
I know many people were suggesting I get a black caviar drive and be done with it (under the assumption that the black caviar's performance would benefit me for other purposes as well - I surmise at least). Going under the assumption, I would have actually grabbed two hard drives: one high performance drive for applications and things that require it and one drive just to store media - since I don't like to mix and match my drives.

I'll definitely upgrade my tower with larger capacity high performance drives down the line when the times comes. Right now, I'm only basically looking for a download, storage and movie-watching drive. I think getting a black drive just for this is a bit of waste of a good drive, but at the same time I don't mind doing it if the other options suck. I think one of the reasons why I opened this thread is because I have some doubts about paying ~118 bucks for a 3TB 5400 RPM "Green" drive, even if I'm only going to be using this as a media storage drive.





Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #44 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:23:09 »
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #45 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:26:00 »
Also, the quality of the drive really doesn't matter for a storage drive..  2year warranty 5 year warranty,, WORTHLESS if all ur **** get's fudged.

If it's something important, you need a backup

If it's just large movie collection, have it spin down to prevent heat/ operational stress.. it'll also be way quieter..

Many people don't realize that their hard-drives are the loudest components in their PC.

Offline Novus

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #46 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:26:44 »
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #47 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:29:27 »
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion


and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

Offline Novus

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #48 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:36:46 »
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop me from buying a Terrible Terrible Hard Drive.
« Reply #49 on: Sun, 05 January 2014, 02:42:31 »
OH man... you JUST MISSED   3TB Western Digital RED for $90 a piece a few days ago.....
Show Image


hahaha
I just googled that yea.
From Tigerdirect right?
I like how the Florida's Attorney General Complaint Link + BBB's complaint page is listed with the deal hahahaha.


Who cares... People got in on that .... I got 4x with 4 addresses to avoid suspicion
Show Image



and at worst.. I could just call the CC company and get my money back...

That is true.
I will say I don't like 4myrebate.
My last purchase (around September) they denied my rebate saying that I basically had included nothing. I even documented everything I sent with a photo, right before I mailed it.
Those guys are a bunch of wankers.
Newegg gave me a courtesy gift card in the same amount though so I'm not that miffed.


I video tape when I put the rebate together....  My trump card move..  I just post it onto Youtube and say... OK watch it you ffff.ers    and after I even threaten the video, they usually give me the credit...

It's undeniable evidence... and it's really easy a 2 minute video, get all the things in focus with the numbers names and addresses and proof of purchase