Author Topic: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL  (Read 10434 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #50 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:24:20 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you could've had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

So, you accepted the risk, by not having tracking.. because you could've forced ship by tracking.

Offline dustinhxc

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6739
  • Location: MN
  • IV
    • Gray Designs
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #51 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:26:43 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #52 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:27:35 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.

I'm not trying to be mean dustinhxc.. I know some of my posts come out a bit rough..

but.. this is exactly what happened...

I still think ur probably a good guy...

Offline dustinhxc

  • * Exalted Elder
  • Posts: 6739
  • Location: MN
  • IV
    • Gray Designs
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #53 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:29:50 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/

that's ur fault... you should've had tracking.. build it into the price next time.


Because you were greedy and wanted to save some money shipping the item.. You got burned because you relinquished what security proof you had in the opportunity to have had tracking.

That's a good idea, should enforce tracking in the price.

I'm not trying to be mean dustinhxc.. I know some of my posts come out a bit rough..

but.. this is exactly what happened...

I still think ur probably a good guy...

Thanks, I do appreciate the ideas. Tracking is good for both parties.
It should be included for international.
I do it for conus, priority no matter what.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #54 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:30:35 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..




Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #55 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:33:30 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..

And therein lies the problem. I could value all clacks at a million dollars a pop, doesn't mean you'd agree and want to send me that amount in order to "trade".
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:36:55 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:39:35 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

Yep. I've barely got two cents to rub together at the moment but if I had something I really wanted I've got plenty of stuff to trade.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:45:01 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.

Everything has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such item exist


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..

And therein lies the problem. I could value all clacks at a million dollars a pop, doesn't mean you'd agree and want to send me that amount in order to "trade".


User A, has a clack A, he values @ priceless ($100,000)

User B, has a (nonexistent fake) clack B, he says he also values @ priceless ($100,000)


User B (does not) actually have a clack... but to get your clack, he has to pay you $100,000

User A invoices B $100,000...   User B pays, he gets the clack


User B invoices User A for $100,000...  You pay, but you don't get a clack.. uh oh.. but you do have the $100000 he sent you...

..... you still got $100,000 from User B for your clack



User A pays the $100,000..  does not get the clack..  paypal, investigates.. gets your money back.. or gets insurance to cover it.

in the end USER A will have $100,000 for his alleged PRICELESS clack..



WHERE IS THE PROBLEM...

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:46:08 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...


Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:56:08 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:57:45 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


Money is created for a reason... explicitly designed to STOP people from bartering.. which is antiquated and NOT secure...


I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....

Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:59:38 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


Maybe read a book about it or something.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:01:42 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

WTF do you mean basically.. if you understood the OP at all.. I was saying make it a double sell the ENTIRE TIME..

What reason do you trade.... that is NOT accomplished by selling..


I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....


Maybe read a book about it or something.


There is no advantage to TRADING (bartering) when the cost to use paypal and its security feature is $0 with respect to both parties......


The only thing your argument hinged on is that 2 people have "priceless" items...


Since that is not truly possible... your argument fails..

Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:04:26 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....

Oh no, whatever will I do with my life without your approval. You make me laugh mate.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #65 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:05:47 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff


If you're broke... Then just sell the items... what's the problem... what is wrong with ya'll

Once this person (with no money)  gets the money...  He will ship you the item... then use the cash you just sent... to pay for the INVOICE that you would've sent...

In the end, both of you get the item you wish to trade...

You only need 1 person with the money to start it.


If both people are broke.. then they have to liquidate before the trade... This is exactly how it's supposed to be done...

So basically you're suggesting for sale threads only. Which doesn't address a lot of the reasons why people trade.

I must maintain that bueller, ur a dumb f-  who is doomed to fail life....

Oh no, whatever will I do with my life without your approval. You make me laugh mate.

IDK.. man.. but being the magnanimous guy that I am..

I'm here to teach you.. to drive the dumbass out of you...

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:12:13 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral (Your TV) for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV

Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #67 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:13:46 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV

You have a solution to everything! What can I do to be more like you oh glorious leader?
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #68 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 12:21:58 »
The real problem is this: when two parties agree to trade their items, it's usually because they don't have the money to purchase them, and want to use something of value that they own in place of fiat debt credits.

TYL: people are broke, but have keyboards and stuff

If BOTH parties are illiquid (no cash, item only), then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to initiate the trade...

Once the trade is complete... give the money back, and get back your TV

You have a solution to everything! What can I do to be more like you oh glorious leader?

These are not MY solutions.....

This should be common practice.. common sense.....   

I am honestly in disbelief that you didn't know this to begin with..

Which is why I am some what angry with you under the assumption that you're trolling this thread....

For reasons, I could only assume because I previously Educated/Schooled you on your lack of understanding in Computer CPUs, Computer Monitors and now Keyboard trading...

Offline iri

  • Posts: 998
  • Location: England
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #69 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 15:31:32 »
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
  • Posts: 8852
  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #70 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 15:37:45 »
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

The overquoting is what has you upset. :))
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #71 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 03:27:17 »
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

if you have questions about the double-sell method, you could ask it... and I could answer it...

Offline bazh

  • * Exquisite Elder
  • Posts: 970
  • Location: Finland
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #72 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 04:47:37 »
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

wow, your comment and avatar couldn't be more fit :))
HHKB Pro2 white

Newbie again

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #73 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:10:31 »
ARE YOU ****ING KIDDING ME WITH THIS OVERQUOTING

wow, your comment and avatar couldn't be more fit :))

the quoting isn't that bad...   

Offline Tym

  • [CTRL]ALT
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 1582
  • Location: England
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #74 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:15:40 »
Tp you come across as a Keynesian economist :D Would you carry that banner?
unless they have some unforeseeable downside (like they're actually made of cream cheese cunningly disguised as ABS)


Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #75 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:21:04 »

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #76 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:52:55 »

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)

Scammers will be scammers.. 

However, the point of using this message is that Paypal will cover your lose should the transaction go sour... 

What do you people not understand about this..

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #77 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:54:06 »
Tp you come across as a Keynesian economist :D Would you carry that banner?

I don't subscribe strictly to any creed....

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #78 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 08:54:54 »

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

Again this is the only important post in this whole thread, all the worthless, "i invoice you, you invoice me, we're a happy family" is all there just to root out the scammer, but as quoted, the scammer is gonna scam.

There is almost literally nothing you can do, and that person will still scam, no big deal, even with paypal. trust me, you can easily get verified paypal accounts. (this is a business, there are legitimate ppl who want paypal accounts but cannot be verified, b/c of country of origin, age, or whatever criteria, but they need paypal to do business and transactions... but of course this can be used for more neferious deeds)

Do you know how fruitless this will turn out? this is no different than the record companies trying to track down idiots who torrent gigs of music, they aren't gonna catch anyone but the dumbest person who is seeding 1,000 albums cuz they just left everything on auto.

the scammers, will get you, that's their job and they're good at it. It's no different than owning a grocery store and having some thugs run in and steal a 6pack of beer, it's the cost of business, it's also the risk you run when you trade physical products on a virtual meeting place across many state lines.

and here, something to think about, you have 45 days to dispute a paypal charge, that means on day 44, when you almost completely forget about what the hell you've traded and you have like 20 transactions on your paypal, this scammer will call his/her CC company and say, hey i don't recognize this charge, it must be fraudulent/i didn't authorize it, etc... CC then charges back to paypal and sends a new CC to the guy/girl.

(at least that would be what i'd do if i were a dirty/no good scammer, you gotta think like one to catch one)

Scammers will be scammers.. 

However, the point of using this message is that Paypal will cover your lose should the transaction go sour... 

What do you people not understand about this..

TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

Offline phoenix1234

  • Posts: 584
  • Location: Saigon - Vietnam
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #79 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 09:47:35 »
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.
I like linear switches

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #80 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 09:54:36 »
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.


you don't chargeback "USING" paypal, you do a chargeback with your payment source.

currently there are 3 ways to "fund" or pay with, paypal

paypal balance
bank account
credit card

if you pay with paypal balance, your **** out of luck, you'll almost never get anything back

if you pay with your bank account, odds are 50/50

if you pay with a credit card (CC) then you can call the CC company, use their own internal whatever chargeback to null/void the transaction, and then it goes up to paypal.

paypal charge back IS difficult and almost never works (i tried 2x, one time was successful the other time was a failure). However even with my initial failure, i just called up my CC, and said it was a fraudulent charge by paypal since it couldn't be resolved, it's pretty much that simple. (these of course were legitimate cases, my paypal is a business account, so i'm not gonna risk my paypal with a silly clack charge back)

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #81 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 10:11:30 »
TP all they have to do is do a chargeback with their credit card company that is outside the bounds of paypal.

There is nothing to ensure the seller will win 100%.
But IMO, a charge back against Paypal is not an easy task.
Here are the process explain:
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/chargeback-guide
https://www.paypal.com/au/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt%2Fseller%2FChargebackRisk-outside
I never face this kind of problem but likely it will become a war zone out there.


you don't chargeback "USING" paypal, you do a chargeback with your payment source.

currently there are 3 ways to "fund" or pay with, paypal

paypal balance
bank account
credit card

if you pay with paypal balance, your **** out of luck, you'll almost never get anything back

if you pay with your bank account, odds are 50/50

if you pay with a credit card (CC) then you can call the CC company, use their own internal whatever chargeback to null/void the transaction, and then it goes up to paypal.

paypal charge back IS difficult and almost never works (i tried 2x, one time was successful the other time was a failure). However even with my initial failure, i just called up my CC, and said it was a fraudulent charge by paypal since it couldn't be resolved, it's pretty much that simple. (these of course were legitimate cases, my paypal is a business account, so i'm not gonna risk my paypal with a silly clack charge back)

If you have proof of shipment and of receipt, along with good credit..

Then you have NOTHING to worry about..

It's up to you whether or not to use CC @ 3% or the Bank..


I find it ridiculous that you could claim, it's Difficult and almost never work, using your personal reference of minor incidences..

If you push this as far as possible.. one of the creditors will buckle and pay you back..

Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #82 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 10:32:52 »
all that proof does not matter, the scammer will use the loop-hole of the CC companies ability to stop the transaction and take money back from paypal, and then that loss/cost gets passed right back to the seller (the non scammer)

wth does the CC fee have anything to do with it? of course the scammer is willing to use the CC and pay the fee, that way he/she will be able to use the CC's services.

who is going to payback the seller? paypal? no, they'll be stuck with a negative balance, because when a transaction gets charged back, paypal will immediately bring that back to the seller and take the appropriate amount out of either of the 3 sources
balance
bank account
CC

paypal will take money first, hit you with the bill, then you can try to dispute it later, but the money will be gone.

There's a reason there are so many ways to fund a paypal account, not to make it easier to deposit money into it, but for paypal to quickly take money out.

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #83 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 11:38:19 »
all that proof does not matter, the scammer will use the loop-hole of the CC companies ability to stop the transaction and take money back from paypal, and then that loss/cost gets passed right back to the seller (the non scammer)

wth does the CC fee have anything to do with it? of course the scammer is willing to use the CC and pay the fee, that way he/she will be able to use the CC's services.

who is going to payback the seller? paypal? no, they'll be stuck with a negative balance, because when a transaction gets charged back, paypal will immediately bring that back to the seller and take the appropriate amount out of either of the 3 sources
balance
bank account
CC

paypal will take money first, hit you with the bill, then you can try to dispute it later, but the money will be gone.

There's a reason there are so many ways to fund a paypal account, not to make it easier to deposit money into it, but for paypal to quickly take money out.

a hold on funds is hardly a problem as long as in the end you're paid.

and the proof of shipment makes all the difference.


If you feel uncomfortable with dealing with the bank. then use ur CC, so you have another line to complaint to..

It doesn't matter..

You can keep the dispute, and they will never be able to close it, as long as you have some evidence..

If they push far enough.   Threaten to sue them.. I guarantee they'll just cut their loss and pay you..


You seem to be entrenched in preserving this RISKY convenience of bartering online.. Hell, maybe ur a scammer, and that's why you'd like that.. LOL..

Bartering.. is the worst and most insecure way of transaction available to anyone these days.



All you've said thus far amounts to simply, that "YOU're" not willing to go far enough to get your own damn money back..   But please don't push your laziness and fear of confrontation onto others..


If you are in the right... You fight to the death for it...  That is the nature of contractual agreement...   and it has made the world a better place...



Offline Lanx

  • Posts: 1915
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #84 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:04:29 »
the less of a stance you have to make your point, the less sense you make, that's your mo, i don't know how calling me a scammer or whatever weird mundane point your trying to make is going to do for your point, it's not.

the point of the retort, is that scammer is gonna scam, and your invoice me, i'll invoice you deal won't help any and actually just cause more (virtual)paperwork and annoyance.

you might've had a decent idea, other ppl have argue'd that it's silly and won't work, if you have nothing to add other than "we'll it's my idea, i'm gonna go down with the ship and defend it, cuz... it's my idea", then it'll just de-evolve into worthlessness.

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #85 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:06:36 »
de-evolve into worthlessness.


99.9% of tp's posts.

Offline tjcaustin

  • King Klaxon
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 3557
  • Location: Dallas-ish
  • King of All Klaxon Sciences and Cable Makery
    • Buy stuff
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #86 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:35:59 »
de-evolve into worthlessness.


99.9% of tp's posts.

Being generous today?

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #87 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:45:16 »
LOL.. I see my fan club has returned.. whenever someone runs out of true facts and reason to defend..

Offline Michael

  • Formerly Bro Caps
  • * Maker
  • Posts: 4632
  • REEEeeeeEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeee
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #88 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:46:30 »

Offline bueller

  • MX baller
  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3769
  • Location: Perth, Australia
  • Church of the Ergo Clear
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #89 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:48:14 »
LOL.. I see my fan club has returned.. whenever someone runs out of true facts and reason to defend..
Show Image


Haha yeah everyone else must be wrong right?
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline iri

  • Posts: 998
  • Location: England
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #90 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:49:21 »
tjcaustin successfully trolled tp4? good.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 13568
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #91 on: Tue, 21 January 2014, 12:56:42 »
sigh... alright guys.. if you really want to continue your bartering and this chain of complaints of un-trackable, unrecoverable, and uninsured transactions.

All of which based solely on FAITH in the random trader over the internet..

So. be it..  More money for the scammers..