Author Topic: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL  (Read 10380 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:08:41 »
The Online scamming seems endless, so I made this post in hopes that people will apply the necessary precautions to online trading.

Method:

Instead of agreeing to a trade by messaging,

Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.

DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge


This is quite secure and safe, because now BOTH parties are BUYERS.. and both parties will receive buyers protection from PAYPAL.



Example:

You want to trade 

Both users must agree to the $(worth) of their respective items to be sent.

User 1 Keyboard 1 worth ($50) 

User 2 Keyboard 2 worth ($100)


Instead of trading, where User 1 paypals User 2 ($50) ontop of shipping his Keyboard 1.

User 1 will simply sell User 2 his keyboard for $50 via Palpal invoice

User 2 will simply sell User 1 his keyboard for $100 via Palpal invoice

Both Users will send packages with "tracking" service. when payment is received

They do not have to send packages at the same time.. whenever payment is received by one user, that user can ship.

DONE... 

So there is no trade... it's a double sell

This method will work even if ONE of the person has zero liquidity (cash) to start.  The liquid person (one with cash) can initiate the trade.


If BOTH parties are illiquid, then... they must go borrow money via collateral.. for example...

For small items, go to a family and friend, and offer him collateral (your TV) for you to borrow @ probably 0% interest the $ amount you need to start the trade...

Once the trade is complete, simply give him the money back, and get back your TV..

Offline phoenix1234

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:12:23 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

It sounds promising!
We learn new things everyday
Thanks
I like linear switches

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:12:42 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:13:23 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:15:59 »
as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

The problem is lack of a Clack being shipped, not lack of receipts. Clacks: the root of all drama.
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

http://jd40.info :: http://jd45.info


in memoriam

"When I was a kid, I used to take things apart and never put them back together."

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:18:27 »
as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

The problem is lack of a Clack being shipped, not lack of receipts. Clacks: the root of all drama.

carpe.. quit trollin'   This is serious...

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:23:38 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:32:44 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say dang-it.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..


With paypal there is at least also the verified account lookup.. you can see if the opposite has some credibility..

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:34:56 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:37:32 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:39:42 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

Offline Blusey

  • Posts: 67
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:40:58 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Thing is if I had more posts here and had been a GHer longer I'd offer to as I live 30 seconds from a post office, plus I have a fairly decent reputation coming from professional gaming. I don't mean like that "ask a pro gamer thread" either. I've managed pro LoL players who have gotten in to LCS and EU Challenger teams, been in decent orgs and earned my share. Always happy to help people out here if they are itnerested as I hate seeing people get screwed over etc. It's a ****ty thing to happen.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:42:22 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:43:50 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:49:12 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :P

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..


Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:52:55 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

Offline phoenix1234

  • Posts: 584
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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:54:51 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.
I like linear switches

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:54:55 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

Offline SpAmRaY

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  • because reasons.......
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #18 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 09:59:31 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

Offline eth0s

  • Posts: 1137
  • Location: New York City
  • Peace & Love
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:00:17 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?
I ♥ Click Clack.  I ♥♥♥ Bro Caps.

Offline tp4tissue

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  • Thread Starter
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  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:02:27 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.

Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
  • Posts: 14667
  • Location: ¯\(°_o)/¯
  • because reasons.......
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:03:23 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.

But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:06:12 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?

Insurance is ultimately a betting pool.. it is a huge place to get money "lost in transaction" because of the existence of the complex derivative market..

Some where, some how.. all the movement is sponsored ultimately by a Debt based economy.. because the debt is never paid back and always increasing, that means the cost is shouldered by people outside of this nation...

So.. if you track it down the line.. it's not all accounted for, because someone some where will be holding securities at the time of their death.. and those numbers will simply go p00f if it is not recovered..

The purpose of the economy is generating debt faster than the p00f... to help the flow.. but you can rest assure that in the end.. not everyone got paid before their demise.

Offline tp4tissue

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  • Thread Starter
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  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #23 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:07:37 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(

He invoice you for $xxx for the clack...  you pay... you don't receive clack... paypal starts investigation..

Investigation fails, both party claims fault...  paypal goes to their insurance guy, says.. hey I messed up..  the insurance guys say.. yes you did... here's the money that I BET YOU you wouldn't have lost...

Thanks... says paypal..

The insurance rubs paypal on the head.. and paypal promptly hands you the money.

But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

Don't release the item until you've been paid..


Offline jdcarpe

  • * Curator
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  • Location: Odessa, TX
  • Live long, and prosper.
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #24 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:08:08 »
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?
KMAC :: LZ-GH :: WASD CODE :: WASD v2 :: GH60 :: Alps64 :: JD45 :: IBM Model M :: IBM 4704 "Pingmaster"

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Offline SpAmRaY

  • NOT a Moderator
  • * Certified Spammer
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  • because reasons.......
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #25 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:09:57 »
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.

Offline phoenix1234

  • Posts: 584
  • Location: Saigon - Vietnam
Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #26 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:12:37 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(
Here is the case I understand:
- A wants to trade a clack C1 (20$) with a clack C2 (25$) - shipped CONUS
- B want to trade a clack C2 (25$) with a clack C1 (20$) - shipped CONUS
- A sents a Paypal invoice to B with 20$ value
- B sents a Paypal invoice to A with 25$ value (+5$ difference)
- When A receives the payment from B, A ships it with tracking
- When B receives the payment from A, B ships it with tracking
-> This trade is no longer a single trade, it becomes a 2-way transaction, there are 2 locks on both sides. If anyone does not receive the package => case disputed => Paypal will be involved => at least the one who does not receive the package has something to prove => there is a possibility to have refund (x% - not 100%). However, what jdcarpe raised (Scammers gonna Scam) is also legit because A or B could use charge back unfortunately  :(.
I like linear switches

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:13:32 »
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.

Ok, that is why we're going with the rule... PAY FIRST... then release...

Even if the opposite person sends Girl-boob photos... DO NOT release item, until you've been paid...

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:15:10 »
But normally when a problem happens and a claim is filed only the buyer or the seller get there money back...not both....

But actually that sounds like an even better way to scam.

You send me $200 and an ergodox for my clacks and I'll send you my clacks and $200 but you ship and send first. I get money and ergodox...you get NOTHING  :blank:

But he wouldn't ship the ergodox until he received your $200, right?

Depends on how good of a talker someone is or how gullible someone is...you know I'll send you the $200 when I get home but I really want that ergodox can you please ship it now and I promise to send you the money, but then....I got stuck at airport in snow storm so it will be a few more days but please ship NOW.

Ok, that is why we're going with the rule... PAY FIRST... then release...

Even if the opposite person sends Girl-boob photos... DO NOT release item, until you've been paid...

So that's what all this business is when people ask for pics via PM....now I get it.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:15:26 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

I think what TP means is Paypal coverage/insurance when we did not receive either of clack or ergodox in the 2-way transaction.

But how can someone be invoiced for clacks? Paypal only deals in dollars and cents :(
Here is the case I understand:
- A wants to trade a clack C1 (20$) with a clack C2 (25$) - shipped CONUS
- B want to trade a clack C2 (25$) with a clack C1 (20$) - shipped CONUS
- A sents a Paypal invoice to B with 20$ value
- B sents a Paypal invoice to A with 25$ value (+5$ difference)
- When A receives the payment from B, A ships it with tracking
- When B receives the payment from A, B ships it with tracking
-> This trade is no longer a single trade, it becomes a 2-way transaction, there are 2 locks on both sides. If anyone does not receive the package => case disputed => Paypal will be involved => at least the one who does not receive the package has something to prove => there is a possibility to have refund (x% - not 100%). However, what jdcarpe raised (Scammers gonna Scam) is also legit because A or B could use charge back unfortunately  :(.


You got it...

and it's pretty close to 100%.. because BOTH of you are buyers..

You do not invoice additional Money (difference)..  you agree upon exactly what each item is worth, and invoice that amount..

There is no "money on top"

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:19:15 »
TP....got your PM....I will trade with you anytime... :o

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:19:58 »
TP....got your PM....I will trade with you anytime... :o


Offline eth0s

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #32 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:38:35 »
If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

as long as you go through paypal, you'll have RECEIPTS..

The problem here is LACK OF RECEIPTS, and LACK of CONTRACT

If you want to trade with 2 items between 2 people...


Directly invoice each other over paypal for the amount agreed upon.


DO-NOT release the item until you've received payment..


Use a verified bank account and you don't have to pay the 3% surcharge

This makes little sense. Scammers gonna scam...

They can use a credit card and do a chargeback, etc.

^^ TP jd knows whats up.

 And this has happened here in the past. Guy gets disgruntled goes on a chargeback spree....sometimes you can work it out with Paypal but usually not. And people will turn to there CC companies and just say it was fraud if they are intent on scamming.

Ok the back and forth CAN happen..

That is why you NEED a 3rd party in here who HAS INSURANCE..


If all else fails... paypal will go to their insurance, and say ****.. it didn't work.. pay me.. so I can pay for these failed trades..

But 9/10 times PayPal will just throw there hands up and side with the buyer.

TP maybe you can start up a service where people can just send you there stuff and you can handle the trades  :thumb:

my time is expensive..  I calculated this already.. I'd have to charge you guys 5-20% depending on the cost of the item..

There's no way for me to personally do this...  I would need a huge volume to charge a flat rate, and an even larger one to get below 5%...

If I lived at the post office, maybe that could work.. but as is, I'm too far away.

Just schedule pickups? Don't you watch the USPS commercials? :p

This might be ok for small packages that fit in my mail box.. but would you leave 2 kmacs or a bag of clacks at the door with no receipt etc etc...

No....this would have to be your full time job, the mailman would just come to the door. I mean you could really make some money with this opportunity.

Spam there's a reason this service does not exist.. because the cost is significantly increased due to additional shipping and turn around time.

The best way to get the safety is just paying for insurance coverage..



Insurance for what?

I mean...if I send you my clacks for your ergodox....what insurance is there to buy?

if we did transaction through paypal... paypal purchased a large insurance plan to cover a certain percentage of the deals going sour..


Ultimately all the defaulting is packaged into securities and sold by the US government.. so morally, insurance is not totally morally right..

But the point is... at least YOU get ur trades in at lower risk.

wut?  How is insurance immoral?

Insurance is ultimately a betting pool.. it is a huge place to get money "lost in transaction" because of the existence of the complex derivative market..

Some where, some how.. all the movement is sponsored ultimately by a Debt based economy.. because the debt is never paid back and always increasing, that means the cost is shouldered by people outside of this nation...

So.. if you track it down the line.. it's not all accounted for, because someone some where will be holding securities at the time of their death.. and those numbers will simply go p00f if it is not recovered..

The purpose of the economy is generating debt faster than the p00f... to help the flow.. but you can rest assure that in the end.. not everyone got paid before their demise.

dude, seriously, you are conflating international finance, social security, US government bonds, and insurance.  You seem to have a general idea of the concepts involved, but have confused them into one big jumble.

I think first of all you meant to say something about the "moral hazard" problem created by insurance, which is where people engage in irresponsibly risky behavior, when they are sure that their losses will be covered by insurance, or in some way borne by others.  However, this applies to CEO's of global Wall Street banks betting a substantial portion of their assets on a single risky financial trade, because they know that if they win they get to keep all of the profits from the trade, but if they lose, we the 'Murican taxpayers pay for their losses (this really happened to Jaime Dimon the CEO of JP Morgan Chase and the legendary "London whale" trade, which occurred after the crimes committed by the other Wall Street scoundrels during the banking crisis of 2008.  Crimes were committed but nobody went to jail).

But that moral hazard problem does not apply to GH'ers trading their Clacks and keyboards.  Every GH'er should always insist on USPS priority shipping with tracking number AND insurance.  This is not immoral behavior or bad economic policy.  Please do not give out such bad advice.  Failing to pay for insurance is bad idea.

Also, tp4, you have mixed in the perpetual deficit spending of the US Govt.  This is a complicated issue, and will take a very long discussion to explain, that nobody wants to read.  However, in brief, deficit spending is not always a bad thing, and in fact in a recession, it is a good thing.  However, the current deficit spending in the US is probably a bad thing, and our current problems were created by the Bush tax cuts, and the two Bush wars, which occurred at the same time.  However, all of the current financial problems of the US Govt. can be solved with simple changes to the US tax policy, as they were in 1997-98, when the Clinton administration ran budget surpluses.  However, 'Muricans will have to stop voting for crazy Republicans. 
I ♥ Click Clack.  I ♥♥♥ Bro Caps.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #33 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:45:47 »
Eth0s..

I know how money works.

Deflection of responsibility is what you're assuming, when you say GHers or anyone willingly living under debt based economies.

We are all a little-bit responsible for what's happening..  Because we're all capable of saying NO..

Instead, we've said.. Yes, i'd like to borrow with NO chance of ever paying it back..



You can say I've Conflated.. but that's exactly how it is, all these systems are connected..

And My advice is that you DO pay insurance.. (by going through paypal, because they paid for insurance)

Please take ur head out of ur ass, and stop attempting to turn over everything I say for personal reasons..

If you want to talk about the "economy" go to pm..

Everything I've suggested thus far would only help traders here..

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #34 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:49:15 »
I say just forget money, pics are the new currency.

Offline bueller

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #35 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:52:41 »
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #36 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:55:42 »
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.

Offline daerid

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #37 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 10:58:32 »
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #38 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:00:30 »
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #39 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:01:17 »
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.

TP maybe edit the OP with that one good example that was posted.

Offline bueller

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #40 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:02:59 »
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.

Trolling. That is pretty rich coming from you, king of the trolls.

I understand your concept fully, I just think it's dumb as ****.

It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline paicrai

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #41 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:03:09 »
QUOTES: THE THREAD
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌th 👌 ere👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯  i say so 💯  thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading..
« Reply #42 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:08:30 »
This thread is unreadable due to the absolutely ridiculous quote nesting (worst "feature" of this forum, IMO).

you don't need to read anything but the my first post, to be safer in all your future trades.

TP maybe edit the OP with that one good example that was posted.

He thought here is "extra" money on top of the agreed upon price.. That isn't the case with 2 invoices, so his example is not completely correct.

Offline bueller

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #43 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:14:00 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #44 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:14:29 »
Lol you think people looking to trade want money tied up as well? I'd laugh if someone asked me to do that.

Bueller, stop trolling.. you got personal beef, go to pm..


The concept here is to end trading, and making it a direct sell..  there's no "extra" money tied up when compared to trading..

You are selling for exact $ amount of what you think your items are worth..

If you can't understand the concept.. Idk, read a book.

Trolling. That is pretty rich coming from you, king of the trolls.

I understand your concept fully, I just think it's dumb as ****.



No, you clearly do not understand.. There is NO money on top of the exact $worth of the items being sent..

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #45 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:16:18 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Everything is has an exact worth in Dollars....

If it does not.. then that means it's PRICELESS.  No such items exist

2 types of priceless items to most people..


Davinci's notes for example, Billgates bought them..


Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #46 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:17:52 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #47 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:21:01 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

Offline bueller

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #48 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:21:04 »
Your solution doesn't really solve anything, let me explain.

Most people on here are usually trading because they have a hard to find item and are willing to part with it in exchange for something of equal rarity or personal value (see every Clack trade thread created ever). So in your scenario people would exchange money for the items at agreed upon prices. But what happens if one of those people doesn't send it? "Paypal will refund the cost of the goods" you say. Except the person never wanted money, they wanted the item available for trade.

It would just lead to a whole new level of scamming, buying things that were never available for purchase by exploiting your system.

If you can not come to terms as to the exact worth of the ITEM to you in $ amounts...... That's your own damn problem...

Tell that to Clack collectors.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

[WTT] bueller's trade thread - CLACKS WANTED

Offline dustinhxc

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Re: Stop Trading.. DOUBLE SELL
« Reply #49 on: Mon, 20 January 2014, 11:22:11 »
PayPal doesn't always work. I sent an iPhone. The guy said hey I never received it. Bam I had to pay him for my iPhone I sold. Sucked. But then after me messaging him daily he told paypal he received it so I got my money back.. But wow what a headache.

What about tracking etc?

It was international and he didn't pay for tracking. :/