Author Topic: Let's say... I want to Star wars.. (Read 9163 times)

tp4tissue · « **on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 19:51:37 »

Any recommendations to get into the universe?

books first, or movie first or tvshow first

Findecanor · « **Reply #1 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43 »

You mean you haven't seen any Star Wars yet?

Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

See the old movies first (Star Wars Ep IV - A New Hope, Episode V The Empire Strikes Back, Episode VI Return of the Jedi). Look for copies of Harmy's Despecialized Editions - these are the best editions out there.
Lucasfilm has made changes in the movies back in '97, '04 (DVD release) and in the BluRay release ('09 ?) - but not to the better. Any copies of the original movies do supposedly not exist in any good image quality, only low-resolution video copies on VHS and laserdisc. The despecialized editions are utilizing the high resolution from the blurays but have the bad effects and images reversed back more to its original form.

Then see the "prequel" movies (Episodes I through III), or ignore them completely. Be aware that they are pretty bad, and made more for kids than the other movies, especially Episode I.
The "Clone Wars" 3D-animated TV-series takes place between Episodes II and III. It is pretty good also as animated series goes, but not every episode. There are a few seasons, so it is a lot to watch.

An alternative viewing order is 4-5- 2-3 -6. It is called the "Machete Order" because it cuts away Episode I, widely regarded as the most annoying of the prequels. It presents episodes 2 and 3 as a look back in time, but episode I is not actually important in the larger story, so it can be skipped without missing much.

riotonthebay · « **Reply #2 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:20:40 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43

An alternative viewing order is 4-5- 2-3 -6. It is called the "Machete Order" because it cuts away Episode I, widely regarded as the most annoying of the prequels,. It presents episodes 2 and 3 as a look back in time, but episode I is not actually important in the larger story, so it can be skipped without missing much.

Machete Order is brilliant. I wish I had never seen the movies so that I could consume them for the first time in this order. tp4, if you've not seen them, definitely watch them in Machete Order.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #3 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:25:33 »

Thx for the suggests, movie brays incoming.. i will peruse under machete order

what about the 100s of games.. are they important...

IvanIvanovich · « **Reply #4 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:29:10 »

See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Caravan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

Most of the games are crap and can easily be ignored... though Battlefront, X-Wing and Tie-Fighter have decent gameplay at least. The original 1983 arcade game, one of the first FPS games, is actually pretty good if you like retro games. I still find the laser bright outline graphic style amazing looking.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #5 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:33:40 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:29:10

See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Carivan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

I've casually heard this many times.. that star wars fandom is masochistic in nature, because it's been a constant influx of carrot and betrayal.

jdcarpe · « **Reply #6 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:36:49 »

Another vote for Machete Order. If someone has never seen the films, it would definitely be the best way to view them.

Findecanor · « **Reply #7 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:44:56 »

I think you should avoid the Ewok movies and the Holiday Special completely... The Ewok movies were made to cash in, and are really for small kids. The Holiday Special is so cheesy 1970's that it might will scar you for life.

There have been lots of games for PC and consoles. Quality varies a lot. Some games were really good ... for their time, but feel a bit dated today. It can be hard to get older PC games to work on newer systems.
I really liked Jedi Knight (from '97 I think..) - it is a FPS with lightsabers, but it has characters that are not anywhere else. It has sequels also.
The Knights of the Old Republic games are pretty well liked RPGs, but set 1000 years in the past. I haven't played The Force Unleashed or Force Commander, but they seem to be pretty well liked.

Findecanor · « **Reply #8 on:** Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:48:28 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:33:40

I've casually heard this many times.. that star wars fandom is masochistic in nature, because it's been a constant influx of carrot and betrayal.

Indeed. I use to say that you are not a true Star Wars fan if you not also hate what has happened to Star Wars. We hate because we care...

JoeC · « **Reply #9 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:37:05 »

No matter what version you see, Han shot first.
Watch the 'original trilogy' before you see any of the others, or do the 'machete'
I've only read a few of the books. Play the videogames, as many as you can get emulators and roms for.
Though, I know you're more of a Trekkie, TP4.

nubbinator · « **Reply #10 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:39:46 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43

Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads. Who cares if they won't be canon. George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more. The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #11 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:45:25 »

Quote from: JoeC on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:37:05

No matter what version you see, Han shot first.
Watch the 'original trilogy' before you see any of the others, or do the 'machete'
I've only read a few of the books. Play the videogames, as many as you can get emulators and roms for.
Though, I know you're more of a Trekkie, TP4.

I'm a fan of all sci-fi with the exception of things like "Lost"...

Quote from: nubbinator on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:39:46

Quote from: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43
Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads. Who cares if they won't be canon. George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more. The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.

does it disappoint you that you've given money to the guy? hahaha...

hashbaz · « **Reply #12 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:47:32 »

I believe he new Star Wars movies from Disney are disavowing everything other than Episodes 1-6 and the Clone Wars TV show. So from a canon point of view nothing else matters. Some of it is fun to read, watch, and play though, as others have mentioned.

If you want to see the original trilogy (episodes 4-6) in high def as they were shown originally in theaters (which I highly recommend), check out the "despecialized" editions. They look fantastic and have none of the lousy CG and tweaks that George has inflicted on us for the last 15 years.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #13 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:47:32

I believe he new Star Wars movies from Disney are disavowing everything other than Episodes 1-6 and the Clone Wars TV show. So from a canon point of view nothing else matters. Some of it is fun to read, watch, and play though, as others have mentioned.

If you want to see the original trilogy (episodes 4-6) in high def as they were shown originally in theaters (which I highly recommend), check out the "despecialized" editions. They look fantastic and have none of the lousy CG and tweaks that George has inflicted on us for the last 15 years.

so the despecialized are fan edits yea?

hashbaz · « **Reply #14 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:51:16 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56

so the despecialized are fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary. The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating. I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.

Coreda · « **Reply #15 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:54:11 »

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.

hashbaz · « **Reply #16 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:58:50 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:51:16

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56
so the despecialized are fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary. The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating. I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.

Here is the slideshow I was remembering, and a Youtube video as well. You'll want to see the movies before watching the videos, probably.

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:54:11

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.

I agree that fans get too worked up about it. Someone coming to the movies fresh will not care nearly as much. But the changes are really, really terrible -- technically, tonally, and story-wise.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #17 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:11:11 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:58:50

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:51:16
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56
so the despecialized are fan edits yea?

Yes, cobbled together from various sources, cleaned up, recomposited, and up-res'd where necessary. The process of creating them is also pretty fascinating. I'll see if I can dig up the link I have.

Here is the slideshow I was remembering, and a Youtube video as well. You'll want to see the movies before watching the videos, probably.

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:54:11
Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

Empire Strikes Back is by far my favorite, and the only film with a tone throughout that takes itself more seriously than the others. The original is also fun.

As for the Special Editions (the 2006 version, not the Blu-Ray) they aren't terribly different on the whole tbh, except for the awfulness that is the CG Jabba palace song *shudders*. SW fans can get overly sensitive to all the subtle changes, but Harmy et al are legends for their work making HD de-specialized versions.

I agree that fans get too worked up about it. Someone coming to the movies fresh will not care nearly as much. But the changes are really, really terrible -- technically, tonally, and story-wise.

should I start with despecialized? or watch the vanilla bray first..

hashbaz · « **Reply #18 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:23:56 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:11:11

should I start with despecialized? or watch the vanilla bray first..

I would definitely start with the despecialized versions, yeah, if you can get them. Watch episodes 4-6 (the original trilogy), then 1-3 (the prequel trilogy). Then see the commercial blu-ray release of episodes 4-6 (with all the extra crap in them) if only to see what everyone is complaining about. I'd actually be really interested to hear a reaction from someone seeing it all for the first time as an adult (i.e., without the nostalgia and/or superfan factors involved). I honestly don't know how much I'd enjoy these movies if I hadn't been obsessed with them as a child.

The Clone Wars cartoon show is actually quite good as well, and covers material between Episodes 2 and 3. I'd watch the movies first though before seeing the show.

edit: And once you've seen it all, sit back and enjoy the Plinkett review of Episode I (there are others as well). I won't spoil things by describing it further, but it's fantastic.

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:54:11

Huh, Episode I is considered the most annoying of the prequels? Haven't re-watched any of them (yes, they are terrible in comparison) but hardly remember it being any worse than the other two.

I meant to respond to this above. Personally I like Phantom Menace more than the other two prequels, by a wide margin. It feels the most Star Wars-ey to me, and has the least egregious overextension from George in terms of CG sets, characters, and set pieces. It also has the two most interesting characters in the prequels, IMO: Qui-Gon Ginn and Darth Maul.

baldgye · « **Reply #19 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28 »

Quote from: IvanIvanovich on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:29:10

See the original theatrical cuts of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Refuse to acknowledge any other cuts or subsequent films were ever done.
Alternately if you want to punish yourself with crap don't forget to watch Caravan of Courage and Ewoks: Battle for Endor between Empire and Jedi.

Most of the games are crap and can easily be ignored... though Battlefront, X-Wing and Tie-Fighter have decent gameplay at least. The original 1983 arcade game, one of the first FPS games, is actually pretty good if you like retro games. I still find the laser bright outline graphic style amazing looking.

Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

hashbaz · « **Reply #20 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:33:19 »

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28

Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope. Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing.

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights. It would be a huge olive branch to the fan communities and a show of good faith that they care about putting the prequels behind them and giving us something worthwhile. They are definitely trying to create that impression so I think a rerelease would be worthwhile in faith and good will even if they don't make a ton of money on it.

Coreda · « **Reply #21 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:18 »

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28

Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

baldgye · « **Reply #22 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:24 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:33:19

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope. Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing.

Ahh my bad, Ivan said it wish such authority that he had a way of watching them or something. But I'll have to check out those 'despecialised' versions... Did they also remake episodes 1, 2 and 3 into watchable movies ?

baldgye · « **Reply #23 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:44:17 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:33:19

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

Nope. Thus the "despecialized editions" that we have been discussing.

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights. It would be a huge olive branch to the fan communities and a show of good faith that they care about putting the prequels behind them and giving us something worthwhile. They are definitely trying to create that impression so I think a rerelease would be worthwhile in faith and good will even if they don't make a ton of money on it.

Yeah I think it would be smart. I don't know anyone who's invested in any version of SW post VHS era because Lucas kept adding terrible **** to them. To be able to watch them as the original cut in HD would be awesome

hashbaz · « **Reply #24 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:48:20 »

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:18

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:31:28
Can you even get the original versions of the first three movies anymore? The only copies I have of them are in VHS and they have worn out..

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

The 2006 release isn't available for purchase anymore unless I'm mistaken...

Quote from: baldgye on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:24

Ahh my bad, Ivan said it wish such authority that he had a way of watching them or something. But I'll have to check out those 'despecialised' versions... Did they also remake episodes 1, 2 and 3 into watchable movies ?

Heh no, but there is a re-cut called The Phantom Edit which attempts to improve Episode I. I haven't seen it but I believe the main difference is the removal of Jar-Jar.

katushkin · « **Reply #25 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:56:23 »

Some of the graphic novels are good, if you like that sort of thing. The Rogue Squadron books my Michael A Stackpole are good as well.

As for games, Battlefront 1 and 2 are good. The clone trooper squad FPS was alright as well. EA will no doubt reveal more about their version of Battlefront at E3 this year as well.

Coreda · « **Reply #26 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:57:08 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:48:20

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:18

They are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

The 2006 release isn't available for purchase anymore unless I'm mistaken...

They are available on eBay, which I where I purchased my unused copies from. Wasn't too long ago they could be bought retail, as it was the last DVD version released before the Blu-Ray came out from memory.

The HD version of the Special Edition is also available from a German HDTV broadcast, which is one of the sources used for Harmy's DSE. The German broadcast had the most faithful color and quality of that version, compared to the other HDTV broadcasts IIRC.

baldgye · « **Reply #27 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:05:41 »

Just thinking out loud, didn't the original movies come out on laser disc? Wouldn't those be the highest quality versions of the original movies out there? Or is ripping a laser disc just not feasible?

Coreda · « **Reply #28 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:11:09 »

That's what the second disc of the 2006 DVD version are - a reproduction of the last laser disc versions, hence the middling quality.

baldgye · « **Reply #29 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 03:14:39 »

Ah ok fair enough.

Findecanor · « **Reply #30 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 05:14:28 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:48:56

so the despecialized are fan edits yea?

I would call them "fan restorations".

Mind you there are fan edits also. The most famous is "AdyWan's" Episode IV.
AdyWan has been working on the sequel, a fan edit of Episode V for the last five years ... Shooting extras in costume to fill out battle scenes, shooting newly built physical models and model sets etc. It is going to be interesting to watch, but I prefer the originals.

Findecanor · « **Reply #31 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 05:28:52 »

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:42:18

The [original versions] are included in the 2006 double disc DVD version. The quality hasn't been restored from the Video Disc copies however, and it seems more of a reluctant inclusion for OT fans.

They are copies from the same master tapes that were used to create Laserdiscs of the three movies in the early '90s. Letterbox widescreen - not anamorphic widescreen like the DVD edition. There is also some added motion blur because of a primitive image enhancement filter used back then.
Better quality than bootleg DVD-transfers from Laserdisc, but not as good quality as the despecialized versions.

In the despecialized editions, the bulk of each movie is practically the same in the original and BluRay edition but needed colour correction. Only the parts where the movie differs between editions has been restored from earlier sources. Not only were letterbox laserdiscs used, but also images ripped from pan-and-scan laserdiscs as well as scanned movie stills carefully composited into higher-resolution images.
Harmy isn't the only editor to do such a restoration, and even he has done several revisions, but his work is considered to be the best.

The German HDTV broadcast actually preceded the BluRay release at least a few months, maybe a couple of years even (I don't quite remember), so it was a big thing among fan editors/restorators for a while. The HDTV broadcast did also not include the additional changes introduced in the BluRay release ... (Yes, Lucasfilm had tinkered with the movies even more.)

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 02:33:19

Though there was a rumor a few weeks ago about a leaked email that might indicate that Disney is planning to release the unaltered original trilogy on blu-ray now that they own the rights.

Fox still owns the distribution rights for quite a few years before they are transferred to Disney.

paicrai · « **Reply #32 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 07:59:06 »

wow this ****'s interesting

credit to GoldenTot for accepting me on Snapchat and sending this

Fire Brand · « **Reply #33 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 08:44:00 »

Republic commandos is a pretty good game in the star wars world :x

hashbaz · « **Reply #34 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 11:33:17 »

Quote from: Findecanor on Sun, 01 June 2014, 05:28:52

Fox still owns the distribution rights for quite a few years before they are transferred to Disney.

Bummer :-/

Maybe by the time a Disney-produced trilogy is complete we'll be able to get a big 9-film release with a proper, restored non-special edition of the original trilogy.

edit: though tbh I'm gonna be sad that before too long Star Wars won't have the distinctive 20th Century Fox logo and fanfare attached.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #35 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:02:42 »

I watched the first half of Episode IV on both Despecialized and Vanilla Bluray....

I must admit, the despecialized looks pretty good.. especially considering the Despecialized is only 720p and only 17GB vs the Bray 1080p @ 38GB

Great movie thus far... effects hold up well...

The despecialized is Sepia/Amber toned vs the new Cool-blue on the bluray..

The Despecialized, I suppose preserves the time period's artistic language for (outer space)

The New Bluray, is a more modern and space is noticeably Colder..

I honestly don't think either editions has a true leg up... at least not so far...

The only Technical advantage difference I suppose is that texture resolution is much higher on the Bluray... but I had to zoom in to see the difference, so that's not really saying much...

I will finish watching and full -report

jdcarpe · « **Reply #36 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:10:57 »

Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #37 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:13:50 »

Quote from: jdcarpe on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:10:57

Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.

Did you check TPB?

jdcarpe · « **Reply #38 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:25:55 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:13:50

Quote from: jdcarpe on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:10:57
Can someone send me a link to download the despecialized editions? I could only get to a site where you need an invitation to download.

Did you check TPB?
Show Image

I had searched for "harmy" and came up with very little. But a search for "despecialized" returns some better results, you're right. :)

eth0s · « **Reply #39 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:42:57 »

Well, if you're new to Star Wars, then you are about to start a love/hate relationship with George Lucas. And you need to know one word: Ewoks. Prepare for the Ewoks. Well, maybe there is no way to prepare for Ewoks. They are so horrible, you can't really imagine how bad. George Lucas lost his mind when he put Ewoks in the third movie. Although, as bad as they are, Ewoks are not the nadir of the Star Wars movies. That honor goes to Jar-Jar Binks. Who is probably the most racist character in film. Except for maybe Al Jolson in The Jazz Singer, which is an actual black-face minstrel show. So just gird yourself for Ewoks in the third movie, and Jar-Jar in the fourth. After that it gets a bit better, except Hayden Christensen is horrible as Darth Vader. There is no way Hayden Christensen could turn into David Prowse, or have the voice of James Earl Jones.

Anyway, the best movies are the first and second (which Lucas stupidly calls Episodes IV and V). And maybe the second one is the best of all. It should also be noted that the second one (Empire Strikes Back) had the least input from George Lucas, so that tells you something.

You should also look up the changes Lucas made to the first movie. The worst of which is when he changed when Han Solo shoots Greedo. In the original version, Han shoots first. But Lucas changed it to Greedo shooting first, and Han retaliating. Which completely changes the Han Solo character from swashbuckling space-pirate/ smuggler, to being a super good-guy, right from start of the movie. Which then completely negates his final transformation into hero at the end of the movie when he swoops in to rescue Luke from Darth Vader. When you manage to tell a story where dramatic circumstances cause an existential change in a character, that is excellent story-telling, worthy of the greatest Greek tragedies. Since Lucas didn't even realize what he had done, Lucas is a moron. He is one of the best examples of an artist who doesn't understand his own work. Also, his changes show him to be an incompetent steward of the Star Wars Canon, and ownership should be taken away from him by eminent domain or in the interest of the public good.

tp4tissue · « **Reply #40 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:57:44 »

I didn't even notice who shot first..

Um..

Han solo's transformation.. I think perhaps this is only a surprise if this movie is the very first movie you've seen where a cold character becomes a warmer hero...

For me.. I knew immediately that Han was the badass guy who will do something heroic later..

That shot didn't prompt or ruin anything..

but yea.. For the OLD die-hard fans, who came into the-star-wars franchise from the very beginning, at a place in history where cinema was NOT a daily event, I suppppppose it could be an unwarranted modification to them...

If you consider that the redone things were intended for a more modern audience... then those small changes seem far less critical..

I didn't notice.. i watched the first 2 halves back to back.. on despecialized first, then bray.

paicrai · « **Reply #41 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 13:12:42 »

you guys really make me want to get into star wars again

tp4tissue · « **Reply #42 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 14:07:46 »

Quote from: paicrai on Sun, 01 June 2014, 13:12:42

you guys really make me want to get into star wars again

I just finished watching the despecialized, and now into the bluray..

In the space station.. there's a great deal of black crush.... I'm don't think the crushed details are essential to the movie... but i could see how comic-book-guy would consider that to be something dire (missing)..

paicrai · « **Reply #43 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 14:40:20 »

Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 01 June 2014, 14:07:46

Quote from: paicrai on Sun, 01 June 2014, 13:12:42
you guys really make me want to get into star wars again

I just finished watching the despecialized, and now into the bluray..

In the space station.. there's a great deal of black crush.... I'm don't think the crushed details are essential to the movie... but i could see how comic-book-guy would consider that to be something dire (missing)..

Crush the blacks

Video editors a-

Blow the whites

video editing jokes

Coreda · « **Reply #44 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 16:57:26 »

Quote from: eth0s on Sun, 01 June 2014, 12:42:57

Well, if you're new to Star Wars, then you are about to start a love/hate relationship with George Lucas. And you need to know one word: Ewoks. Prepare for the Ewoks.

You should also look up the changes Lucas made to the first movie. The worst of which is when he changed when Han Solo shoots Greedo.

Spoken like a true SW fanatic, haha. I wouldn't say I hated the Ewoks, it's a combination of a few different things. In fact I'm quite fond of the night time village sequences and think they're among the best scenes in the film.

To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

Perhaps the good thing about IV and V is they played to their strengths really well. The space, desert and ice environments are perfect settings, and the films - especially V - maintained a consistency in the characters, sets and models better I felt.

But hey, what's a SW fan without some personal idea of what the films should be like

noisyturtle · « **Reply #45 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 17:17:30 »

I'd say just watch the six films and walk away with your own judgments. Personally I like the first remake of the originals (the ones with the dewbacks) because I feel like that added enough small things without making it weird. If you really want the original, unchanged an in the best quality you would probably want the Laserdisc Star Wars Trilogy: The Definitive Collection

See here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_changes_in_Star_Wars_re-releases

hashbaz · « **Reply #46 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:00:34 »

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 16:57:26

To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

ROTJ is my sentimental favorite since it was the one I loved best as a kid. As an adult I can see that it's weak as a film, but the set pieces are just so damn good! I agree with the general consensus that Empire is the best of the 6 films, but I think that the final assault on the Death Star in ROTJ is the best, most exciting and fun space battle ever filmed.

user 18 · « **Reply #47 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:09:16 »

Quote from: nubbinator on Sun, 01 June 2014, 01:39:46

Quote from: Findecanor on Sat, 31 May 2014, 20:17:43
Ignore the books. It is up in the air which ones are going to be relevant in the future or not. It depends on what the script writers for the coming movies decide to bring into canon or not. Also, there aren't exactly any masterpieces among the Star Wars books, even though some can be entertaining.

Some of the books are fun reads. Who cares if they won't be canon. George Lucas has so ****ed up the Star Wars universe as it is and I'm sure the new movies will just **** it up more. The non-canonical books just make for a more interesting universe, especially the ones that deal with Thrawn and the Yuuzhan Vong.

Official word is that no book is canon, particularly now that episode 7 (can you say cashgrab?) has been announced and is being written.

Vong were an interesting enemy at the start, but they dragged on for far too long, IMO. Thrawn is a masterpiece and is the only part of the expanded universe I truly regret being removed from canon.

Never heard of Machete order, but it sounds like a good way to go. Episode I would have been much better if there had been more lightsaber and less Jar-Jar, but you don't really miss anything by missing it.

For the record, my original order was I-II-IV-V-VI-(some books)-III-(more books). Maybe that dates me a little, but oh well.

noisyturtle · « **Reply #48 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:12:02 »

All the "Tales From The ...." books are amazing. They were a cornerstone of my preteen years, I'd recommend them for a fan of any age.

dorkvader · « **Reply #49 on:** Sun, 01 June 2014, 21:30:29 »

Quote from: hashbaz on Sun, 01 June 2014, 18:00:34

Quote from: Coreda on Sun, 01 June 2014, 16:57:26
To me VI just feels a bit more dated and inconsistent in tone. There are great parts of the film, but they are mixed with other parts that could have been improved or re-written. The quality of the models from the Jabba scenes at times is like something out of Time Bandits (even if I happen to like that film), and the Endor forest sequences have an 80s vibe I can't quite put my finger on, aging the film for me more than some of the other timeless sets and models, such as the magnificent designs in the final space battle (beautiful - possible spoiler warning unless you've seen VI).

ROTJ is my sentimental favorite since it was the one I loved best as a kid. As an adult I can see that it's weak as a film, but the set pieces are just so damn good! I agree with the general consensus that Empire is the best of the 6 films, but I think that the final assault on the Death Star in ROTJ is the best, most exciting and fun space battle ever filmed.

I always liked V best, but that's 'cause it features the Good Empire kicking the Evil Rebellion's butts and other such general awesome. It also had much better lightsaber fighting than VI. IV had good fighting as well, but it's more fencing than believable lightsaber fighting.

Also, you know you're on GH when you automatically type lightsaver both times and have to fix it twice.

The games I played varied. I really enjoyed KoToR and Rouge squadron, but the lego starwars game was terrible (and very buggy)

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Author Topic: Let's say... I want to Star wars.. (Read 9163 times)