Author Topic: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard  (Read 28057 times)

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Offline jdcarpe

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Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 11:58:50 »
This is a novel concept...

Ultimate Hacking Keyboard

A 60% keyboard which can split in the middle to become an ergonomic keyboard.







Quote
The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard has been designed to be better in so many ways. Are you one of those demanding users who want to achieve greater productivity and comfort? Did you know that you only utilize 9 of your 10 fingers on regular keyboards? Want to type in a more natural posture on a truly high-quality keyboard and reach the mouse quicker, while moving your hands far less? If so, read on.

It looks to be going to a crowdfunding campaign soon.

What do you all think?
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 18:52:20 by jdcarpe »
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 11:59:20 »
Reserved
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Offline Frenir

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:04:10 »
Definitely interesting. Not a fan of the buttons below the split space-bar though.

Offline JinDesu

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:05:44 »
MX switches it seems
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Offline blackbox

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:24:54 »
I doubt thathe t cable organiser is going to last long. I have har plenty of broken Cable organizers that use that style.
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Offline hashbaz

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:27:05 »
The mouse layer has me very interested.  Name-boosting off of the HHKB seems kinda lame.

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:41:45 »
This is a novel concept...

Ultimate Hacking Keyboard

A 60% keyboard which can split in the middle to become an ergonomic keyboard.

Show Image


Show Image



Quote
The Ultimate Hacking Keyboard has been designed to be better in so many ways. Are you one of those demanding users who want to achieve greater productivity and comfort? Did you know that you only utilize 9 of your 10 fingers on regular keyboards? Want to type in a more natural posture on a truly high-quality keyboard and reach the mouse quicker, while moving your hands far less? If so, read on.

It looks to be going to a crowdfunding campaign soon.

What do you all think?

Interesting. There are a lot of good ideas.

I don't like:
- The shape of the keyboard: these two triangles on top are ugly and I don't like that it is going to waste space on my desk. Please remove any wasted space around the keys.
- The location of the Super key. Let me move it if I want, don't force it on me.
- Redundant shortcuts. Mod+D to do Alt-Tab? Mod+Q to do Ctrl-W? No sorry this is not going in the right direction.
- The multiple layers. This is trying to please everyone at the cost of adding keys (Fn) or hijacking existing ones (Caps Lock). There is no need for all these layers. What is needed is full programmability. With that, a main layer and an Fn layer will be enough.

I see that they promise to open source the firmware, so my last point may quickly have a solution.

I don't mean to be negative. There are many good things in this keyboard.

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:43:09 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.
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I like what this guy said

Offline bueller

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:43:53 »
Looks like an interesting idea but I HATE keyboards that use unusual key sizings. They've butchered the entire right hand side just for the sake of symmetry, instant turn off for me.
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline Frenir

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:46:53 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.
Yay another leftie-spacie. I thought I was alone!


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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:49:11 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.
Yay another leftie-spacie. I thought I was alone!

I didn't know it was weird until a few days ago lol.
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Offline MTManiac

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:49:51 »
definitely a balls to the wall design

Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 12:50:46 »
Did the guy doing this not post here recently? Or maybe that was on DT...I get around a lot.

Offline bueller

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 13:01:38 »
Did the guy doing this not post here recently? Or maybe that was on DT...I get around a lot.

You slut! huehuehue
It's a good width!  If it's half-width it's too narrow, and full-width is too wide. 

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Offline spiceBar

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 13:16:11 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.

I think the Mod and Space keys are swappable, so relax.

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 13:21:45 »
The only thing I really like about this is the split spacebar on a 60%
Quote from: elton5354
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Offline hoggy

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 14:59:10 »
I'll be looking out for this one.
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Offline tribade

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:11:33 »
Did the guy doing this not post here recently? Or maybe that was on DT...I get around a lot.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I saw that topic.  Can't find it now for the life of me, though...
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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:12:38 »
Every single one of those tractable type cables I've ever used.. were destroyed eventually or became intermittent.

If this doesn't have a replacement cable system.. then I believe it's an absolute NO GO.....


I'm also not sure who this board would appeal to.. if you think about it.. there's the majority of N00bies and Old-die-hards  who are obsessed with  svelte rectangles...

Then there's the dudez who are obsessed with Function, who'd rather have the ergodox..


The middle ground for these people is much smaller...

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:13:30 »
Every single one of those tractable type cables I've ever used.. were destroyed eventually or became intermittent.

If this doesn't have a replacement cable system.. then I believe it's an absolute NO GO.....

I didn't even think of that

It could be a real problem, too.
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Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:14:42 »
Every single one of those tractable type cables I've ever used.. were destroyed eventually or became intermittent.

If this doesn't have a replacement cable system.. then I believe it's an absolute NO GO.....

Yeah... replaceable cables would be nice.
Not just because the keyboard would see a longer lifespan, but also because you can get some custom cable bling. Mmmmm cable bling.
Quote from: elton5354
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Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:16:38 »
Did the guy doing this not post here recently? Or maybe that was on DT...I get around a lot.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I saw that topic.  Can't find it now for the life of me, though...

I think this was the thread I remember reading http://deskthority.net/product-news-f44/introducing-the-ultimate-hacking-keyboard-t8238.html
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:23:03 by SpAmRaY »

Offline cooldiscretion

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:18:13 »
I think it's really nice they are trying to bring something new to the market. Something that hasn't been done before. I can see there is room for improvement, but some of the issues might be resolved in the next version - or for that matter the first version to be mass produced. I have a feeling that the person buying this keyboard won't be switching their preferred method of using it often (split or unsplit), but it's nice to have that option.

Offline luisbg

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:26:45 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.

If they really want to call it a Hacking keyboard they should provide a good programmable layer in which you can remap most buttons.
I would be very disappointed if they don't think people will want to switch Mod and Space around.
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Offline Frenir

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:49:56 »
gross

I spacebar with my left hand, so this would be like torture.

If they really want to call it a Hacking keyboard they should provide a good programmable layer in which you can remap most buttons.
I would be very disappointed if they don't think people will want to switch Mod and Space around.
I assume you would always be able to change it on the OS level, or maybe the Mod-key can't be detected and changed.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:50:49 »
- The location of the Super key. Let me move it if I want, don't force it on me.
Agreed. If the right-hand side was only 0.5 key wider, all mods on the bottom row could have been 1.25 wide and interchangeable, and they would have been able to support ISO layout with the same PCB.

It seems like the bridge cable is needed only if you split the keyboard. The bridge cable seems to use modular connectors so it could be easily replaced.

The use of modular connectors, magnets and extra thumb keys suggest to me that the designer is on here and/or on Deskthority, and has been keeping attention. ;)

Anyway, this is still only a 3D rendering, a concept model, so I expect it to be revised a bit. The modular connector and the LED characters on the left-hand side would occupy the same space.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 15:54:44 by Findecanor »
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Offline davkol

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:17:19 »
Nope. Nope. Nope.

Offline luisbg

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:24:52 »
Nope. Nope. Nope.

Care you share the opinions that made you decide "Nope"?
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Offline Pacifist

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:35:05 »
seems pretty cool

add software based programming, its much easier IMO than hitting a bunch of buttons to get it the way you want

Offline davkol

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:41:39 »
Nope. Nope. Nope.

Care you share the opinions that made you decide "Nope"?
Tacky name.
Non-standard, but still asymmetrical staggered layout.
Ugly case and something tells me it's not going to be light either.
Boasts about open source, but the development model is a complete cathedral so far.
Price estimate on par with Axios/ErgoDox/ErgoPro/...

As a potential customer, I don't see any reason to get it over Matias Ergo Pro, which appears to be better looking, more ergonomic and well supported. Actually, except licensing, but then there are the other projects.

Offline davkol

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 16:46:07 »
BTW am I the only one to thing that the point about NKRO is just wrong?
Quote
NKRO stands for N-Key Rollover. It means that you can press every key at the same time and every one will be received by your computer. This is important because almost every keyboard is only 6KRO (meaning it can send only 6 keys at once and usually less) which can be problematic for gaming.

Offline luisbg

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:01:43 »
I take back what I said. This looks very promising  :D
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Offline mondalaci

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:14:29 »
seems pretty cool

add software based programming, its much easier IMO than hitting a bunch of buttons to get it the way you want

Thanks!  Given the complex feature set, on-keyboard programming would be a torture so offering software based programming has been the plan from the get-go.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:25:01 »
No name-boosting off of the HHKB.  On 08/2007 when I came up with the concept and the name I haven't even heard about the HHKB.
The guy who designed the logo has - that is obvious.
I myself had heard about the HHKB for more than a decade before I became a keyboard enthusiast.

The retractable cable is replaceable because it uses RJ11 jacks like your standard phone cable.
RJ11 is technically a telephone standard that uses only two contacts on each modular connector. I suppose that your cable has at least four leads. It would be more correct to say which type of modular connector you use.

Tacky name.
Yes! Why don't you tack on the word "Extreme" at the end also and call the Cherry MX Brown version the "Stealth Edition" ...  :rolleyes:
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 18:46:09 by Findecanor »
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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:28:27 »
Thanks for the clarifications. Even though it may not be the board for me, it is nice seeing people progress the market.
My wife I a also push her button . But now she have her button push by a different men. So I buy a keyboard a mechanicale, she a reliable like a Fiat.

Offline mondalaci

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:38:54 »
No name-boosting off of the HHKB.  On 08/2007 when I came up with the concept and the name I haven't even heard about the HHKB.
The guy who designed the logo has - that is obvious.
You're making things up - that is obvious.  Think whatever you want and call me a liar if it makes you feel better.  I'm done with this.

Offline Findecanor

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 17:42:46 »
You can't deny that there are similarities between the logos, and not only the form factor and the names of the keyboards.
I wouldn't be surprised if you would get into a trademark dispute.

Even if it is true that you came up with the branding yourselves, I find it implausible that you would be able to  prove that you at any time in the last eighteen years wouldn't have heard of or seen the HHKB anywhere in some magazine or on some web page or in real life.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 19:09:42 by Findecanor »
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 18:47:42 »
All in all it looks promising.

There were a couple of potential issues I saw (that retractable cable, programmability, etc.) but they have mostly been addressed thus far.

Just a few points:
* It looks like it uses a 4p4c modular connector to connenct the halves. Is that the case or is it something else? I'd love to use a nice coiled WYSE cable.
* I noticed the line of pins at the front to connect the halves. I really like that and think it's implemented better than it could have been (way to go!). Of course, it's sill a potential fragile area for failure. DO you have any thing to address this: stronger than usual leafs? a protective cover piece you can install?

Just out of curiosity: why did you choose those bendable leafs instead of (for example) pogopins that seem to be more prevalent?
Boasts about open source, but the development model is a complete cathedral so far.
Open source does NOT mean open development. I would say the biggest issue I see with the bazaar is feature creep, which is usually completely avoided with closed development / open source model. This is a very workable development strategy and I have seen it work out very well in the past.

For example, just look at the ergodox development thread.

open source / closed development is a much better idea for a hardware model, where your time to make prototypes and iterations is on the order of days / weeks, compared with minutes / hours for compiling new iterations on a software project. If someone wants to add a new feature to a software project, they can do so without greatly impacting the release timeline. If you want to make even a slight change to a hardware project, each one sets it back weeks. There comes a point where you have to call enough "enough" and push to production. With all the "noise" of peaople requesting features int eh bazaar, the cathedral makes a lot of sense here.

Keep in mind the cathedral / bazaar analogy was originally applied to open software, and I would argue that it has little relevance to open hardware and hardware design / developments.

Just my thoughts of course.


Offline mondalaci

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 19:08:16 »
You can't deny that there are similarities between the logos, and not only the form factor and the names of the keyboards.
I wouldn't be surprised if you would get into a trademark dispute.

Thanks for bringing this into our attention.  Yes, we can see some similarities but we'd rather like to move forward instead of infinitely worrying about this.  Hopefully, we won't ever have to deal with it.  We wouldn't deserve a trademark dispute given that  we used our original design.

Offline mondalaci

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 19:31:48 »
* It looks like it uses a 4p4c modular connector to connenct the halves. Is that the case or is it something else? I'd love to use a nice coiled WYSE cable.

It's 6p4c, actually.  Luckily for you coiled 6p4c cables do exist. :)

* I noticed the line of pins at the front to connect the halves. I really like that and think it's implemented better than it could have been (way to go!). Of course, it's sill a potential fragile area for failure. DO you have any thing to address this: stronger than usual leafs? a protective cover piece you can install?

Just out of curiosity: why did you choose those bendable leafs instead of (for example) pogopins that seem to be more prevalent?

Excellent question!  We've choosen this connector primarily because of space constraints.  Also, pogo pins are fabulously expensive costing > $10.  Even though I think this shouldn't be a huge pain point we can still revise this further given that we'll be able to find a pogo pin that is small enough, easy to source and not so terribly expensive.

Boasts about open source, but the development model is a complete cathedral so far.
Open source does NOT mean open development. I would say the biggest issue I see with the bazaar is feature creep, which is usually completely avoided with closed development / open source model. This is a very workable development strategy and I have seen it work out very well in the past.

For example, just look at the ergodox development thread.

open source / closed development is a much better idea for a hardware model, where your time to make prototypes and iterations is on the order of days / weeks, compared with minutes / hours for compiling new iterations on a software project. If someone wants to add a new feature to a software project, they can do so without greatly impacting the release timeline. If you want to make even a slight change to a hardware project, each one sets it back weeks. There comes a point where you have to call enough "enough" and push to production. With all the "noise" of peaople requesting features int eh bazaar, the cathedral makes a lot of sense here.

Keep in mind the cathedral / bazaar analogy was originally applied to open software, and I would argue that it has little relevance to open hardware and hardware design / developments.

Just my thoughts of course.

Thank you so much for articulating this!  Also, the left and right bootloaders are already out in the open and the rest will follow according to the plan that is featured on our main page.

Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 20:11:30 »
I think in many ways of this as a spiritual successor to the Cherry MX5000. There is a lot of good here and as such it could well be a viable alternative to an MX5000.
To me, the biggest con is the not quite standard backspace, enter, and super keys. There will be a major annoyance for those that like to change keycaps. I do hope you strongly reconsider this decision... otherwise I hope you ship it with some high quality doubleshot or PBT dyesub so it's much less annoying. I don't really dig the pointy bits on the case either.

Offline dorkvader

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 21:45:07 »
Excellent question!  We've choosen this connector primarily because of space constraints.  Also, pogo pins are fabulously expensive costing > $10. 
Oh my gosh, you're right. this is ridiculous:
http://www.mouser.com/Search/Refine.aspx?Keyword=pogo+pins

@ivan
This keyboard uses what I think-of as an "offset" layout. Usually, the width is a whole number of keysizes, but some (like this) are "offset" and the width is some fraction larger.

You can see this with tab being larger than 1x and \| being 1x. Same with `~ and backspace.

There's probably an official term for this, but that's just my thoughts.

When I'm faced with a layout like this, and I want to change keycaps, I just get some cherry relegendables (or blanks, having a supply of blank larger-than-1x keys is useful) and put them on where necessary. I'm not picky about having gaps, so it works out for me.

I think the TG3 BL82 is "offset" as well, so there may be some compatability between them.

I do like how you liken it to a modern 5000. For me, it's somewhat superior: it's fully split, you can get a random cable to connect the halves (meaning you can just get one arbitrary length, if it's 6p4c, then a 6p6c cable (for rj45 ethernet may well work) making chair mounting easier, you can also program it, etc.

If you go for a super long cable, a pullup resistor may be necessary though.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 22:01:53 »
Seems like a gimmick to me. 


Offline IvanIvanovich

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 19 June 2014, 22:11:25 »
On the left half it appears to have a standard 1.5 tab, 1.75 C row 'mouse' where caps lock traditionally is and a 2.25 left shift. The Deck BL82 has totally different sizes where the left mods are also .5 shorter than usual. It's only the right half here that uses .5 reduced width keys similar to old school Apple like the M0110. Sure it's possible to find 1.5 backspace, 1.75 enter and certainly a second 2.25 shift is little issue... but it would definitely be a lot more convenient if used 2 unit backspace, 2.25 enter and 2.75 shift with 1.25 super key and a slightly longer 2.75 space instead on the right half. Having standard easy to source keycaps is likely to be far more important than having both halves to be exactly the same width in the long run to most potential buyers. Additionally, if an ISO version is in the cards it is even goingto be more difficult as slim ISO enters are really not readily available. Asides from the couple of Cherry models that had it like the 130* and Alcatel MMK... and old terminal boards like the Wy85 and similar... perhaps GMK and SP still has those mold kicking about but I would doubt anywhere else will.
« Last Edit: Thu, 19 June 2014, 22:23:06 by IvanIvanovich »

Offline mkawa

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #44 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:30:32 »
i believe GMK should have that tooling if it was used on the wy85

to all the brilliant friends who have left us, and all the students who climb on their shoulders.

Offline rowdy

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #45 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:33:18 »
It might be the ultimate Hacking Keyboard, but would you be Happy using it?
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline blackbox

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #46 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:45:08 »
It might be the ultimate Hacking Keyboard, but would you be Happy using it?
You just couldn't resist. Well, we shall see when it arrives to the consumers.
Keyboards: Dell AT102W (matias standard clicky), Maltron two-hand 3D fully ergonomic keyboard (Vintage MX Black). CM QF XT (MX Grey) IBM model M

The LAN table!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62536.0

Offline rowdy

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #47 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 01:48:35 »
It might be the ultimate Hacking Keyboard, but would you be Happy using it?
You just couldn't resist. Well, we shall see when it arrives to the consumers.

You got the reference then ;D
"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline blackbox

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #48 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 02:01:33 »
It might be the ultimate Hacking Keyboard, but would you be Happy using it?
You just couldn't resist. Well, we shall see when it arrives to the consumers.

You got the reference then ;D
Not too hard to find out when it contain two of the same words in the product name :). General question: Any specific reason not to use rj45 than rj11? I think it would have been a benefit to have a cable that almost everyone has.
Keyboards: Dell AT102W (matias standard clicky), Maltron two-hand 3D fully ergonomic keyboard (Vintage MX Black). CM QF XT (MX Grey) IBM model M

The LAN table!
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62536.0

Offline davkol

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Re: Ultimate Hacking Keyboard
« Reply #49 on: Fri, 20 June 2014, 02:14:32 »
Boasts about open source, but the development model is a complete cathedral so far.
Open source does NOT mean open development. I would say the biggest issue I see with the bazaar is feature creep, which is usually completely avoided with closed development / open source model. This is a very workable development strategy and I have seen it work out very well in the past.

For example, just look at the ergodox development thread.

open source / closed development is a much better idea for a hardware model, where your time to make prototypes and iterations is on the order of days / weeks, compared with minutes / hours for compiling new iterations on a software project. If someone wants to add a new feature to a software project, they can do so without greatly impacting the release timeline. If you want to make even a slight change to a hardware project, each one sets it back weeks. There comes a point where you have to call enough "enough" and push to production. With all the "noise" of peaople requesting features int eh bazaar, the cathedral makes a lot of sense here.

Keep in mind the cathedral / bazaar analogy was originally applied to open software, and I would argue that it has little relevance to open hardware and hardware design / developments.
It's not like there aren't any meritocratic projects, there weren't more people participating in the ErgoDox thread, AcidFire hasn't been open to suggestions for about a year etc. That's quite a difference, if you compare it to a one-man-show with source available, but unusual layout and case, incompatible with existing parts/accessories.

The point is, there are plenty of projects with source available, because of marketing or necessity (i.e. based on another copyleft project), but isn't it the collaborative effort that makes the difference then?