Is Topre a mechanical keyboard?

[Cherry1990]

Probably a request already made... I am sorry for that, but this beautiful forum is soo big!!!

Problem: I wanted to buy a new mechanical keyboard.

I was on the market for a Cherry based one but, reading this forum and some other places on the web, I understand that Topre keyboards are the best.

My doubt is the following one: is it really different from a good standard rubber keyboard (like Lenovo, Dell etc.)?

Looks like a stupid question (Topre is the best in the world etc. etc.) but it has ALSO a rubber dome too and I don't want to pay 250 EUR or more and get the same feel I get from an IBM X-Series servers keyboard...

Thank you!

P.S.: I cannot try it before order it. Or send it back if I don't like it...

[CPTBadAss]

You can try going on deskthority and seeing if they have their Topre tour going. That way you can try before you buy. DT is very euro centric.

[SpAmRaY]

You can try going on deskthority and seeing if they have their Topre tour going. That way you can try before you buy. DT is very euro centric.

http://deskthority.net/try-f29/

[esoomenona]

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[esoomenona]

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[Grim Fandango]

Does it really matter?

I go for something that feels nice, and is durable. If topre fulfills both those criteria for you, then who cares if it is mechanical. Personally I really like the feel of Topre. I like its smooth but distinct feedback and how it feels when you bottom out. I like that it is not nearly as noisy as Cherry MX, and I like that it is typically very light (unless you go for 55g).

[Sent]

Also, trolling aside: best is subjective. What's best to one person is not best to another. Keep that in mind with everything you see here.

I feel like this needs to be mandatory reading before anyone signs up on the site.

[tp4tissue]

Every keyboard that has moving parts used in the actuation process is Mechanical...

[Puddsy]

technically no, practically yes.

[_PixelNinja]

Maybe?

[ConscienceDrop]

its rubberdome plus a spring

it certainly feels apart from MX and buckling spring.

[atlas3686]

I generally answer "it's a hybrid" when people ask that question but I guess it's subjective.

[Oobly]

Well, tp is right. Technically ALL keyboards are mechanical except for those laser projected ones or touch screens. However, for the purposes of distinguishing between "normal" keyboards and "mechanical" keyboards, if it has an individual metal spring in the mechanism for each switch, it is considered mechanical here. Rubber domes do not, Topre do (and they do contribute at least a small amount to the feeling of the switches, so they don't feel quite like any other "rubber dome" board).

Try to find a local store that stocks Realforce boards and ask if you can try one for an immediate short term reference. Or join the DT tour for a longer term experience, which will be much better.

IMHO, you have to try Topre before buying as they don't appeal to all. Like me, for example. I'm a Cherry MX ErgoClears guy (62g variant), don't like the feeling of Topre switches. Also, BEST is completely subjective. Some consider Alps to be best, others Topre, others Buckling Spring, others some variant of MX. I withhold judgement until I have tried them all for while. I have found my favourite MX variant (for now, but I still need to try Ghost Blacks and Panda Clears, but I will when my Black switches arrive) and prefer it to Topre and my Model M, but I have yet to try a Model F or different Alps variants long term.

One problem is if you find something you really like and use it a lot, everything else feels "worse" simply because it feels different. That's why you have to try it for a length of time so you can get used to the difference and be more objective.

[minority]

All computer keyboards are MECHANICAL keyboard except the Cool Leaf... IMO.

Be feel.

[00zeRO]

ALSO a rubber dome too and I don't want to pay 250 EUR or more and get the same feel I get from an IBM X-Series servers keyboard...

Thank you!

P.S.: I cannot try it before order it. Or send it back if I don't like it...

Not many will see it this way, but I certainly do...however before I get the ol' Topper dog pile on me for even giving a lone voice of dissension in a cacophony of praises to Topre, I will have to agree with the general notion that it depends on what you like. With Topre, you either love it or hate it. I have a healthy appreciation for it, but would never own one. If bottom out feel is so important, then give me blue orings for my Red Cherry MX's, 'cause I ain't going back to a rubberdome, top rubber or otherwise.

[esoomenona]

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[Kmynis]

Topre feels closer to a rubberdome than to a MX board, but whether it is mechanical or not, it's just a play of words which, in the end, does not define anything at all.
If you haven't tried a MX board, imo you should do it before trying a topre, since they're cheaper and not worse when it comes to quality.

[esoomenona]

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[Hypersphere]

I consider Topre-switch keyboards mechanical, because the rubber dome undergoes collapse during the actuation cycle, thus providing excellent tactile feedback. Actuation is handled by a conical spring-mediated capacitance sensor that contributes only about 5 cN to the resistance force; most of the resistance is provided by the rubber dome.

After trying scores of switch types, my two favorites are Topre 55g and IBM capacitive buckling spring (as in the Model F XT). In the IBM switch, tactile and auditory feedback are provided by the catastrophic collapse of a metal spring rather than a rubber dome.

I've tried a variety of Cherry mx switches, and I do not like any of them thus far (these include blue, green, brown, clear, and vintage black). My first mechanicals had Cherry mx switches, and I am putting all of them up for sale this week.

[shifted]

Unless you type for a living I don't think a Topre is worth it over a rubber dome if you like how rubber dome feels.  The rubber will still break down over time and require a different force to press.  I am just ignorant as to why a Topre is any better though and even though I have seen people explain why I still don't get it.  But, I also don't think a BMW is worth it over a Subaru Legacy for instance so yeah

I think Brown or Clear switches are the closest feeling to rubber dome you will get if you don't go with Topre.  The bump or tactile feedback in brown or clear switches sort of simulates the collapsing of the rubber dome.  Browns are slightly easier to collapse than a typical rubber dome and clears are about the same amount or slightly more to get past the bump.  I have never understood why some people say red or black even are most like a rubber dome.  My red switches feel the most different from a rubber dome than anything else due to the lack of any sort of bump or resistance at all.

For instance, I did the nickel test (placing a stack of nickels on a key until it collapses.  Each nickel is 5g weight) and one of my rubber domes collapses at 50-55g depending on the key (Logitech K120) and my other collapses at 60-65g depending on the key (Cherry KU-0556).  The mx cherry brown switches need 55g to get past the bump and clear switches need 65g to get past the bump.

If your goal is to get a mechanical keyboard because you want to feel like you're using a mechanical keyboard I wouldn't get a Topre.

[Hypersphere]

To me, a Topre feels more "mechanical" than any Cherry mx keyboard. I attribute this to a true collapse of the dome with an attendant decrease in force. Tactile or tactile/clicky Cherry switches literally put a bump in the stem, but after the bump, the force due to the continued compression of the spring continues to increase.

I still need to try mx reds and blacks in order to have tried them all, but thus far, I have not found a Cherry mx switch that I like.

My favorite switches are Topre (especially as embodied in the RF 87ub 55g) and IBM buckling spring (with Model F capacitive buckling springs favored over Model M membrane buckling springs). I regard both Topre and IBM buckling spring as mechanical, and I like the feel of both. Neither of these feel anything like a conventional rubber dome keyboard to me.

In the end, each person needs to test actual keyboards for himself; only you can determine what you like and don't like.

[Oobly]

To me, a Topre feels more "mechanical" than any Cherry mx keyboard. I attribute this to a true collapse of the dome with an attendant decrease in force. Tactile or tactile/clicky Cherry switches literally put a bump in the stem, but after the bump, the force due to the continued compression of the spring continues to increase.

I still need to try mx reds and blacks in order to have tried them all, but thus far, I have not found a Cherry mx switch that I like.

My favorite switches are Topre (especially as embodied in the RF 87ub 55g) and IBM buckling spring (with Model F capacitive buckling springs favored over Model M membrane buckling springs). I regard both Topre and IBM buckling spring as mechanical, and I like the feel of both. Neither of these feel anything like a conventional rubber dome keyboard to me.

In the end, each person needs to test actual keyboards for himself; only you can determine what you like and don't like.

All rubber dome boards have domes that collapse. That's the primary tactile mechanism in all of them. IMHO a Cherry board feels more "Mechanical" because you can feel the spring pushing back the whole time with the leaf and slider "leg" shape providing the tactility. The force increase near bottom out helps reduce the force of bottom out, reducing the shock on the fingers. Even better if you install trampolines or orings. MX Clear have a strong force change from ramping up the slope to going over the "bump". It provides quite a similar force change to a collapsing dome, but with stronger spring force throughout the movement which provides a nice positive lift off feeling, IMHO.

The way I see Topre is you like them or leave them. You can't change the way they feel. You can with MX. MX switches are massively customisable and therein lies a big part of their appeal to me. I can make them feel how I want by changing sliders or springs and modding them in many different ways.

Also, I do believe the spring on Topre does change the feeling. It provides an extra 5g force increase which is linear like MX springs, making the collapse of the dome a little less catastrophic and providing a nice little spring back boost. Normal rubber dome boards don't have this and this helps the Topre feel more "alive" than other rubber domes.

So in my opinion, Topre are more mechanical than other rubber domes, but not as mechanical as Cherry MX, buckling spring or Alps. They do have nice smooth movement, too.

Which switch type you like the most is of course completely personal and subjective, but it's good to hear descriptions and experiences of all the types you're interested in, so you can make a more informed decision depending on your own preferences and how descriptions seem to match them.

[Cherry1990]

Thank you very much to all!
I will check for the European Topre tour... I also wait a little to try MX Red, Brown and (new) Black.
My (old) Black are now a bit too tiring for me and I make a lot of mistakes... The same with my (always old) MX Clear...
I need something "light" and not too noisy...

[rowdy]

Topre is The Ultimate Rubber Dome keyboard.

Just don't look at the acronym.

I love my HHKB

[Cherry1990]

Topre is The Ultimate Rubber Dome keyboard.

Ok. I am asking myself if THIS rubber is better than a mechanical or not...

I love my HHKB

I searched on Wikipedia. Do you mean the one that costs 5,000 US$?!?

[rowdy]

Topre is The Ultimate Rubber Dome keyboard.

Ok. I am asking myself if THIS rubber is better than a mechanical or not...

I love my HHKB

I searched on Wikipedia. Do you mean the one that costs 5,000 US$?!?

No, mine is just a plain humble Happy Hacking Keyboard Professional 2.