Katushkin's plea for help upgrading his old PC

[katushkin]

I say this is for an upgrade, but I probably need an entire new system minus HDDs.

I've just finished building a new system, and it's awesome, but my old PC is in need of some TLC. It's mainly going to now be used for media storage and a few games, so I would like a decent GPU, but nothing excessive.

I'm currently running:

ASUS ROG Rampage III Extreme mobo
Some 3 year old i7
AMD Radeon HD6950 2GB
16GB RAM (Corsair Vengeance DDR3 I think)
4x2TB Wester Digital Green HDDs
1 old 100gb SSD that will need replacing
850W PSU

So, what I would like. I would like to downscale to mini ITX or micro ATX, as I currently have an enormous NZXT Phantom. I started another thread a few months ago about down sizing my PC but the money just depressed me. I am coming into some money after Christmas though, so I thought I would just go the whole 9 yards and replace everything. I would like to stay with an Intel CPU, and an AMD GPU, as I realise to make it easier I will have to get rid of pretty much everything other than the HDDs, so I'm looking for everything.

As for extras, I would like to make full use of the wonderful Pexon's services and get some sleeved cables, so a case with some way of looking in and a Corsair or Silverstone PSU would be preferable. And of course the case would have to be able to hold at least 5 HDDs.

I know it's a lot to ask, but I would love some help on this and you guys r da best. Budget would be probably about £500 or $800 ish.

<3

PS - I like pretty colours too

[heedpantsnow]

IMHO if your CPU is a 950 or higher you might not get a huge performance increase in that budget.

Your ram is good, but that system should be running 3-channel so if you have 16GB doesn't seem like you have it set up optimally.

If it was me I would buy a new GPU and SSDs and hang on for a year or two more.

[FrostyToast]

If you want MATX, then I would say that the best looking one and most functional one is the Node 804

[katushkin]

IMHO if your CPU is a 950 or higher you might not get a huge performance increase in that budget.

Your ram is good, but that system should be running 3-channel so if you have 16GB doesn't seem like you have it set up optimally.

If it was me I would buy a new GPU and SSDs and hang on for a year or two more.

Yeah, I know the system isn't bad, but I want to downsize, and I can't really do that with a full ATX sized mobo. I would love to keep as much of the system that I can, but my GPU is almost 12 inches long, and my case is enormous as well.

If you want MATX, then I would say that the best looking one and most functional one is the Node 804

Yeah, that is the one I saw first on ebuyer. It looks pretty awesome and has pretty much the space I need for everything.

[tp4tissue]

Ok.. so good.. we have a budget.. $800

what are you going to DO.... with this PC.....

[katushkin]

Ok.. so good.. we have a budget.. $800

what are you going to DO.... with this PC.....

It's mostly going to be for media storage, (hence the 8TB) streaming and a little bit of gaming. No AAA titles at Ultra high graphics, but for LAN parties occasionally.

[tp4tissue]

Ok.. so good.. we have a budget.. $800

what are you going to DO.... with this PC.....

It's mostly going to be for media storage, (hence the 8TB) streaming and a little bit of gaming. No AAA titles at Ultra high graphics, but for LAN parties occasionally.

hrmm...  4690k $200 + z97 mobo $150 + R290 $200 + 8Gb ram $80 + cooler $30 + liquid ultra paste $15 + 256GB Tlc SSD $100

Keep ur old case, and other stuff..


If you deviate from this build, you'll significantly lower the price to performance ratio..

If you ADD money to it.. you can do more stuff.. but..  overall.. it wouldn't be prudent to burn ANY money on vanity when you can buy more performance.


Let me give you an example of vanity..

You have a computer case..   Buying a new case..

Anything related to Microatx or Itx..

Buying a $50 cpu cooler..



For the current gen haswell, you HAVE TO delid.. for maximum overclocking.

[katushkin]

Let me give you an example of vanity..

You have a computer case..   Buying a new case..

Anything related to Microatx or Itx..

Buying a $50 cpu cooler..

For the current gen haswell, you HAVE TO delid.. for maximum overclocking.

It is not for vanity. It is for convenience. It is the whole point in this build to get it smaller. I have a main desktop PC now, and I don't want another full tower just for storage and the occasional game.

[tp4tissue]

Let me give you an example of vanity..

You have a computer case..   Buying a new case..

Anything related to Microatx or Itx..

Buying a $50 cpu cooler..

For the current gen haswell, you HAVE TO delid.. for maximum overclocking.

It is not for vanity. It is for convenience. It is the whole point in this build to get it smaller. I have a main desktop PC now, and I don't want another full tower just for storage and the occasional game.

what are you going to do with ur old setup.

[katushkin]

what are you going to do with ur old setup.

Well the old GPU is probably going to go to Dorkvader because he asked me a while ago for it, but I may keep the old CPU cooler. I'm going to keep using all the HDDs and optical drives, but the PSU, Mobo and CPU, I have no idea.

[blackbox]

I would recommend the following:


Motherboard: ASUS Z97M-PLUS, Socket-1150
CPU: Intel Core i5-4460
Cooler: Noctua NH-U9B SE2/ corsair h55
GPU: asus 780 poseidon
Case: Node 804
PSU: Corsair AX 760
SSD: Samsung SSD 840 EVO 120GB

keep the rest

[IvanIvanovich]

How much smaller do you really need it? You could just simply buy a much smaller case like a Lian Li PC-V700 and keep all the hardware you have now. For what you say you're going to be using it for I don't see anything wrong with what you have now.

[Joey Quinn]

Go mini ITX and for the SSD get an 840 Evo, I have 3 and they are awesome.

[The Mad Professor]

How's about this one?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87I-Deluxe Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($133.79 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($109.97 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card  ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $833.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-19 19:59 EST-0500

My reasonings and thoughts:

1. You are factoring in size over power.
2. You said "occasional game" which I took to mean nothing seriously resource intensive, so the CPU should be just fine. As such:
3. Stock cooling should be just fine.
4. The Crucial MX100 series is the best bang-for-your-buck on the market at the moment.
5. The case will hold all your drives. I could have gone for a MiniITX case, but you would sacrifice the side window to get one capable of holding all the drives.
6. For occasional gaming, a 750 Ti should work.
7. DDR3-1600 RAM is enough. If you need higher RAM speeds, you should invest more money into the computer to bring it closer to the other desktop's configuration.
8. For such a small form factor case, you want a fully modular PSU so you don't have excess cables sitting inside the case.
9. The ODD is what I would put into it. You can opt for just a DVD-RW for less or just omit it altogether.

[tp4tissue]

How's about this one?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87I-Deluxe Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($133.79 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($109.97 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card  ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $833.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-19 19:59 EST-0500

My reasonings and thoughts:

1. You are factoring in size over power.
2. You said "occasional game" which I took to mean nothing seriously resource intensive, so the CPU should be just fine. As such:
3. Stock cooling should be just fine.
4. The Crucial MX100 series is the best bang-for-your-buck on the market at the moment.
5. The case will hold all your drives. I could have gone for a MiniITX case, but you would sacrifice the side window to get one capable of holding all the drives.
6. For occasional gaming, a 750 Ti should work.
7. DDR3-1600 RAM is enough. If you need higher RAM speeds, you should invest more money into the computer to bring it closer to the other desktop's configuration.
8. For such a small form factor case, you want a fully modular PSU so you don't have excess cables sitting inside the case.
9. The ODD is what I would put into it. You can opt for just a DVD-RW for less or just omit it altogether.

no no no no no no no no no

you're totally wasting money if you have $800 and put together a g3258 ..

G3258 only beats 4690/4790  in price to performance @ less than $600

[The Mad Professor]

How's about this one?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87I-Deluxe Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($133.79 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($109.97 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card  ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $833.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-19 19:59 EST-0500

My reasonings and thoughts:

1. You are factoring in size over power.
2. You said "occasional game" which I took to mean nothing seriously resource intensive, so the CPU should be just fine. As such:
3. Stock cooling should be just fine.
4. The Crucial MX100 series is the best bang-for-your-buck on the market at the moment.
5. The case will hold all your drives. I could have gone for a MiniITX case, but you would sacrifice the side window to get one capable of holding all the drives.
6. For occasional gaming, a 750 Ti should work.
7. DDR3-1600 RAM is enough. If you need higher RAM speeds, you should invest more money into the computer to bring it closer to the other desktop's configuration.
8. For such a small form factor case, you want a fully modular PSU so you don't have excess cables sitting inside the case.
9. The ODD is what I would put into it. You can opt for just a DVD-RW for less or just omit it altogether.

no no no no no no no no no

you're totally wasting money if you have $800 and put together a g3258 ..

G3258 only beats 4690/4790  in price to performance @ less than $600

Your concern would be understandable if this were a budget gaming machine, but Katushkin specifically stated that this machine would primarily be a media storage machine... basically a glorified NAS server with a few extra capabilities.

Unless he's planning to run heavy duty, resource intensive games, a 4690/4790 would be overkill.

I guess the most important thing to know is exactly what games he's planning to play on it so we can plan accordingly.

[dorkvader]

what are you going to do with ur old setup.

Well the old GPU is probably going to go to Dorkvader because he asked me a while ago for it, but I may keep the old CPU cooler. I'm going to keep using all the HDDs and optical drives, but the PSU, Mobo and CPU, I have no idea.

When I read your topic I said to myself: "wow what a nice GPU. I or my brother (who also has a 6950) could make good use of that". Then I read your post later on and I apparently already mentioned something.

Your memory is better than mine.

Unless he's planning to run heavy duty, resource intensive games, a 4690/4790 would be overkill.

I guess the most important thing to know is exactly what games he's planning to play on it so we can plan accordingly.

anyway I agree here. I used to game on a first gen mac pro from 2006 with two dual core intel xeons from long before core i7 was a thing. On that system I was able to run all my games with settings almost all the way up and the bottleneck was the GPU (CPU usage remained at or about 50% for all cores). A modern CPU will be way better than those monsters unless you're trying to render physx on your CPU or something.

You'll probably be fine with a lower-end CPU unless you want to run some pretty hardcore stuff on your CPU and also have it be "tops" for the next few years.

Still, advice is a lot easier to give with specifics. If you're just playing typing of the dead all day then you're good

[tp4tissue]

How's about this one?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Pentium G3258 3.2GHz Dual-Core Processor  ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z87I-Deluxe Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($133.79 @ Newegg)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial MX100 256GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($109.97 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB TWIN FROZR Video Card  ($134.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Arc Mini R2 MicroATX Mini Tower Case  ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic X Series 400W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($114.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus BC-12B1ST/BLK/B/AS Blu-Ray Reader, DVD/CD Writer  ($52.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $833.70
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-11-19 19:59 EST-0500

My reasonings and thoughts:

1. You are factoring in size over power.
2. You said "occasional game" which I took to mean nothing seriously resource intensive, so the CPU should be just fine. As such:
3. Stock cooling should be just fine.
4. The Crucial MX100 series is the best bang-for-your-buck on the market at the moment.
5. The case will hold all your drives. I could have gone for a MiniITX case, but you would sacrifice the side window to get one capable of holding all the drives.
6. For occasional gaming, a 750 Ti should work.
7. DDR3-1600 RAM is enough. If you need higher RAM speeds, you should invest more money into the computer to bring it closer to the other desktop's configuration.
8. For such a small form factor case, you want a fully modular PSU so you don't have excess cables sitting inside the case.
9. The ODD is what I would put into it. You can opt for just a DVD-RW for less or just omit it altogether.

no no no no no no no no no

you're totally wasting money if you have $800 and put together a g3258 ..

G3258 only beats 4690/4790  in price to performance @ less than $600

Your concern would be understandable if this were a budget gaming machine, but Katushkin specifically stated that this machine would primarily be a media storage machine... basically a glorified NAS server with a few extra capabilities.

Unless he's planning to run heavy duty, resource intensive games, a 4690/4790 would be overkill.

I guess the most important thing to know is exactly what games he's planning to play on it so we can plan accordingly.

right.. but his budget is $800...   if we take that as "the constant"..  there's a better way to spend $800, and that's with the 4690k ..

[dorkvader]

right.. but his budget is $800...   if we take that as "the constant"..  there's a better way to spend $800, and that's with the 4690k ..

That's not the only parameter. He's not wanting to get the most performance for his money, he wants the most performance optimized for his use case for the money. If I want a computer to run 12*4TB drives and also be able to play chips challenge (classic windows98 game ported from atari lynx) then a 4690K is not the best answer at any budget.

What we want to do is find a build that will allow him to run his most intensive processes (games most likely) at near capacity (with overhead to account for proper cooling and longevity) for all components involved. Once this is achieved, then parts can be "upgraded" for better cost/value ones as budget allows. If this is not achievable at the given bugdet, then expectations are not realistic.

It's not always about all the bang-for-buck. You also need to account for use case: it's a whole aspect of the decision matrix that you're not even considering.

[The Mad Professor]

right.. but his budget is $800...   if we take that as "the constant"..  there's a better way to spend $800, and that's with the 4690k ..

I would argue against that.

Unless you plan on overclocking your machine, the K-series processors are a waste of money. Given his declared use for the computer, overclocking will likely never come into play. As to the "dual core vs quad core" thing, unless he's running programs that require a quad core processor (those are typically higher end software and high end games), then a quad core will be useless as well. It would be wasted money to get one, as the capabilities would never come into play. It's like getting a dual-CPU motherboard with two high end Xeon processors just to play Sim City. It's a colossal waste of money and resources, and the money could be better spent elsewhere.

[Murdari0]

I'd recommend just getting an matx case (silverstone PS07 or TJ08  ) and sourcing an matx board for your cpu as the stuff you have now is still really good.

I'm currently using a PS07 and have two graphics cards, one of them watercooled, an NHD14 on the cpu, 2 SSDs and 1 HDD and a modular 750w power supply in this thing with room to spare. So it should be able to fit everything you need. You will need to tape the ssd somewhere though.

EDIT: Just realised your on 1366 so it would probably be tricky to get an matx board for a decent price.

[The Mad Professor]

anyway I agree here. I used to game on a first gen mac pro from 2006 with two dual core intel xeons from long before core i7 was a thing. On that system I was able to run all my games with settings almost all the way up and the bottleneck was the GPU (CPU usage remained at or about 50% for all cores). A modern CPU will be way better than those monsters unless you're trying to render physx on your CPU or something.

Point of information: PhysX is exclusively handled on the GPU processor now, and only on NVIDIA GPUs. The CPU is out of the proverbial loop on that.


My own rig has two GTX 980s in SLI and a GTX 760 purely dedicated to PhysX.

[tp4tissue]

right.. but his budget is $800...   if we take that as "the constant"..  there's a better way to spend $800, and that's with the 4690k ..

I would argue against that.

Unless you plan on overclocking your machine, the K-series processors are a waste of money. Given his declared use for the computer, overclocking will likely never come into play. As to the "dual core vs quad core" thing, unless he's running programs that require a quad core processor (those are typically higher end software and high end games), then a quad core will be useless as well. It would be wasted money to get one, as the capabilities would never come into play. It's like getting a dual-CPU motherboard with two high end Xeon processors just to play Sim City. It's a colossal waste of money and resources, and the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Overclocking is non-negotiable...

[katushkin]

Case wise, I think the Node 804 is perfect for what I want. Lots of drive bays, small form factor, windowed side, I think that's what I will stick with.

Answers to questions:

When I read your topic I said to myself: "wow what a nice GPU. I or my brother (who also has a 6950) could make good use of that". Then I read your post later on and I apparently already mentioned something.

Overclocking is non-negotiable...

Show Image

I have never overclocked any machines I've owned, and I don't ever factor it in to my builds. I don't think I'm going to do it this time either... Sorry...

Games I'm going to play are probably going to be limited to Runescape and maybe dota, I don't think I'm going to be playing it a lot though, as I don't play it on my main machine very much anymore. I don't think I would be able to go as low as a dual core CPU though. I could get an i3 haswell for about $100 so I might go with that.

I don't need an optical drive; I have two Blu Ray re-writable Samsung drives which I can move, but I have just realised I need a slim one in that case. Meh.

[The Mad Professor]

Case wise, I think the Node 804 is perfect for what I want. Lots of drive bays, small form factor, windowed side, I think that's what I will stick with.

Except for that slot loading ODD bay... Good luck finding a slot loading ODD drive for anything resembling cheap...

I have never overclocked any machines I've owned, and I don't ever factor it in to my builds. I don't think I'm going to do it this time either... Sorry...

Games I'm going to play are probably going to be limited to Runescape and maybe dota, I don't think I'm going to be playing it a lot though, as I don't play it on my main machine very much anymore. I don't think I would be able to go as low as a dual core CPU though. I could get an i3 haswell for about $100 so I might go with that.

Erm... i3 processors are dual core. You only get quad core when you hit i5, i7, and Xeon processors...

According to the Runescape Wiki's entry on Game Requirement, you need the following for top performance:

4GB RAM, 2 GHz CPU, 256MB 3D Graphics Card

For DOTA2, the recommended requirements are as follows:

DotA 2 Recommended System Requirements:

OS: Windows® 7 / Vista / XP (64 bit Compatible with 7 / Vista)
Processor: Intel core 2 duo 2.4GHz
Memory: 2 GB for XP / 4GB for Vista / 7
Graphics: DirectX 9 compatible video card with Shader model 3.0. NVidia 7600, ATI X1600 or better
Hard Drive: At least 8 GB of free space
Sound: DirectX 9.0c compatible sound card

Given that the max recommended requirements calls for a dual core, a quad core would be overkill and wasted money. Save the cash and just get a dual core.

[tp4tissue]

No804 is such a crummy case..

Yea it's shorter and boxy.. but that only means it takes up MORE space, unless you're gonna be stacking books ontop of this thing. which you wouldn't because Firehazard + insulates heat.

Something like a carbide 200r is much better AND actually takes up less space..

floor space is the premium (the flat bottom part).. case height and total volume is almost completely irrelevant..

[tp4tissue]

If you do NOT overclock..

You are essentially throwing away 50% of what you pay for.. 

[katushkin]

Erm... i3 processors are dual core. You only get quad core when you hit i5, i7, and Xeon processors...

I did not know that.

Given that the max recommended requirements calls for a dual core, a quad core would be overkill and wasted money. Save the cash and just get a dual core.

i3 it is. that's settled then.

No804 is such a crummy case..

Yea it's shorter and boxy.. but that only means it takes up MORE space, unless you're gonna be stacking books ontop of this thing. which you wouldn't because Firehazard + insulates heat.

Something like a carbide 200r is much better AND actually takes up less space..

floor space is the premium (the flat bottom part)

Show Image

.. case height and total volume is almost completely irrelevant..

Well, I think it looks good, and it does everything I want. It's not always about floor space, because the NZXT Phantom I have is 55cmH 59D and 22W, I just want something smaller.

If you do NOT overclock..

You are essentially throwing away 50% of what you pay for.. 

Sorry, but it is nowhere near that much. Even in TP terms.

[mogo]

I did what you're going for last summer, Katush, and I'm 100% pleased with the results of my build. Our desires of function are similar, I even went with a Haswell i3 (which I can upgrade later if I feel it's being a bottleneck, but at this point it's been totally sufficient!)

I have to wholeheartedly recommend this case: Fractal Node 304 mini-ITX case


The layout is fantastic, there's very little wasted space, but it's not so cramped that airflow is restricted. It can fit a large video card, but you have to buy a shallower power supply (which Fractal also makes one that fits the job perfectly).

[tp4tissue]

$200 cpu
$150 motherboard
$100 ram
$150 Gfx card
$50 Case
$100 256gb SSD
$100 3TB HDD

$850 TOtal

The K cpu cost the same as the NON-K

4690k performance:

4.8ghz   10614 cpu score   12.487


3.5ghz     7740 cpu score   9.105

So you lose 37% of the RAW cpu performance...


Now factor in synergistic effects that collate with memory performance and GFX performance

(you lose 40% memory bandwidth by not overclocking ram)

(you lose 10-30% of frame rates on GFX min AND max)


You're looking at-at-LEAST 50% of your money flushed down the toilet..

[tp4tissue]

I did what you're going for last summer, Katush, and I'm 100% pleased with the results of my build. Our desires of function are similar, I even went with a Haswell i3 (which I can upgrade later if I feel it's being a bottleneck, but at this point it's been totally sufficient!)

I have to wholeheartedly recommend this case: Fractal Node 304 mini-ITX case

Show Image

The layout is fantastic, there's very little wasted space, but it's not so cramped that airflow is restricted. It can fit a large video card, but you have to buy a shallower power supply (which Fractal also makes one that fits the job perfectly).

What people don't understand about "little wasted space"  is..

collects dust more easily +

insulates warm air +

horrible for harddrive cooling because of reduced convection space +

poor cabling..



There is no wasted space in a FULL tower.. since the vertical area it takes up would've been useless anyway..

The space inside of a FULL tower greatly improves airflow in general, and because of the reduced cable clutter, doesn't funk them up with dust.

[yasuo]

is not really2 old to me

[The Mad Professor]

Well, I think it looks good, and it does everything I want. It's not always about floor space, because the NZXT Phantom I have is 55cmH 59D and 22W, I just want something smaller.

Node 804 Dimensions: 344mm W x 307mm H x 389mm D


Arc Mini R2 Dimensions: 210mm W x 405mm H x 484mm D


Basically, the Arc Mini R2 is narrower than the Node 804, but taller and deeper. Sure you get more drive bays in the Node 804, but at the expense of having to buy a slot loading ODD which are hard to find and a bit on the expensive side (that or using an external drive).


Unless you think you're going to fill up the thing with hard drives (in which case you will need a JBOD SATA expansion card to accommodate the drives), then the Arc Mini R2 is a better deal, in my opinion.

[mogo]

Tp, my node collects far less dust than any previous full-size/mid-size tower I've ever owned, and it comes down to the sheer number of fans. More moving air = more dust. The filtered panels for the GFX card and PSU do a fine job keeping the dust at bay and are easily wiped off. It does not insulate, it breathes freely thanks to a big exhaust port on back with a 120mm fan. HDDs sit in front of the small intake area, hanging sideways, and none of my three drives get unusually warm. Poor cabling is a result of poor management skills, not cases. A small PSU will have fewer power cables, so it's simpler to tidy up.

[inanis]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

[The Mad Professor]

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

7+ years old? Sounds like it may be DDR2 RAM. Good luck with that! Places that do sell it sell it for a premium as it is rare. At this point, you might as well bite the bullet and upgrade the whole thing.

[inanis]

7+ years old? Sounds like it may be DDR2 RAM. Good luck with that! Places that do sell it sell it for a premium as it is rare. At this point, you might as well bite the bullet and upgrade the whole thing.

True, true. But I where I work puts a plethora of outdated, otherwise useless components at my fingertips. Really the 4GB has served me well. I have no real issues, it's more like a "hey, I could just do that, so why not" type of thing. I use it for a NAS and occasionally to VPN into my office. I'm not exactly a hardcore gamer over here. Though I did enjoy Chips Challenge back in the day, as previously mentioned in this thread by dorkvader. Great game!

[katushkin]

Well, I think it looks good, and it does everything I want. It's not always about floor space, because the NZXT Phantom I have is 55cmH 59D and 22W, I just want something smaller.

Node 804 Dimensions: 344mm W x 307mm H x 389mm D


Arc Mini R2 Dimensions: 210mm W x 405mm H x 484mm D


Basically, the Arc Mini R2 is narrower than the Node 804, but taller and deeper. Sure you get more drive bays in the Node 804, but at the expense of having to buy a slot loading ODD which are hard to find and a bit on the expensive side (that or using an external drive).


Unless you think you're going to fill up the thing with hard drives (in which case you will need a JBOD SATA expansion card to accommodate the drives), then the Arc Mini R2 is a better deal, in my opinion.

If I'm honest, I could probably count the amount of times I've used the optical drives in the last 3 years on one hand, so it's not that big a deal to me. Drivers can all be updated online or transferred via USB, and most games you buy have to be activated online through steam if you buy a hard copy anyway.

But I take your point about the R2. I shall bear tat in mind as well as the 304, but then that is getting into Mini ITX and a whole nother kettle of fish =/

My next worry is about getting a small power supply, and having enough connectors to power all my HDDs, although I guess you can always get one cable to power multiple drives so I guess it's not that much of an issue.

[yasuo]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

[tp4tissue]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

You bought a pentium 4 in 08 ?

Core 2 duo came out in 06 ?


TO be totally pragmatic.. anything 2ghz+ Core2duo with an SSD   will feel pretty darn fast..  Haswell is roughly twice as fast as the core2duo clock for clock.. which isn't actually that much when it comes to daily tasks...

But the Minimum line is there...   if you have anything released prior to c2d, like socket 939, socket 478, early 775..   you'd want to ditch those..


If we look at q6700.. @ 3.7ghz overclock, it punches 4648 points..   

the latest 4690k @ 3.7ghz will do 8180 points.. only 75% more..

[The Mad Professor]

If I'm honest, I could probably count the amount of times I've used the optical drives in the last 3 years on one hand, so it's not that big a deal to me. Drivers can all be updated online or transferred via USB, and most games you buy have to be activated online through steam if you buy a hard copy anyway.

The best option is to install the latest drivers directly from the manufacturer website, usually via downloading the driver installer to a USB. This makes the process faster and you don't have bloated driver files with unneeded data.

But I take your point about the R2. I shall bear tat in mind as well as the 304, but then that is getting into Mini ITX and a whole nother kettle of fish =/

Mini ITX is meant for enthusiast SFF builds and doesn't save you money over mATX. In fact, the motherboards usually cost more, as they aren't as widely produced as mATX and ATX boards.

My next worry is about getting a small power supply, and having enough connectors to power all my HDDs, although I guess you can always get one cable to power multiple drives so I guess it's not that much of an issue.

The size of the power supply is inconsequential unless you are either going for a Mini ITX build/SFF build or if you are going full enthusiast build with quad GPUs and all the trimmings and need like a 1200W PSU (if that's the case, then a smaller case is pointless). Every case is built with cutouts meant to mount a specific form factor of power supply. The standard size of PSU that you find on nearly every case is ATX and the vast majority of power supplies are made in that form factor. You will be hard pressed to find one that doesn't fit.

As to the idea of powering your devices, most PSUs nowadays come with cables that have multiple SATA Power connectors, so you should be good.


Another note about power supplies (and I tell this to everyone): DO NOT skimp on your power supply. It is, quite literally, the heart of your machine, so you want to make sure it's a reputable one.

[yasuo]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

You bought a pentium 4 in 08 ?

Core 2 duo came out in 06 ?


TO be totally pragmatic.. anything 2ghz+ Core2duo with an SSD   will feel pretty darn fast..  Haswell is roughly twice as fast as the core2duo clock for clock.. which isn't actually that much when it comes to daily tasks...

But the Minimum line is there...   if you have anything released prior to c2d, like socket 939, socket 478, early 775..   you'd want to ditch those..


If we look at q6700.. @ 3.7ghz overclock, it punches 4648 points..   

the latest 4690k @ 3.7ghz will do 8180 points.. only 75% more..

it's first pc I do not know much when it, purchase by parent and it's not embedded vga so buy separate
btw the matter procies is core or clock(ghz) like core2duo with 2,4 or core i3 but 1,8ghz?

[tp4tissue]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

You bought a pentium 4 in 08 ?

Core 2 duo came out in 06 ?


TO be totally pragmatic.. anything 2ghz+ Core2duo with an SSD   will feel pretty darn fast..  Haswell is roughly twice as fast as the core2duo clock for clock.. which isn't actually that much when it comes to daily tasks...

But the Minimum line is there...   if you have anything released prior to c2d, like socket 939, socket 478, early 775..   you'd want to ditch those..


If we look at q6700.. @ 3.7ghz overclock, it punches 4648 points..   

the latest 4690k @ 3.7ghz will do 8180 points.. only 75% more..

it's first pc I do not know much when it, purchase by parent and it's not embedded vga so buy separate
btw the matter procies is core or clock(ghz) like core2duo with 2,4 or core i3 but 1,8ghz?

what ?

[yasuo]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

You bought a pentium 4 in 08 ?

Core 2 duo came out in 06 ?


TO be totally pragmatic.. anything 2ghz+ Core2duo with an SSD   will feel pretty darn fast..  Haswell is roughly twice as fast as the core2duo clock for clock.. which isn't actually that much when it comes to daily tasks...

But the Minimum line is there...   if you have anything released prior to c2d, like socket 939, socket 478, early 775..   you'd want to ditch those..


If we look at q6700.. @ 3.7ghz overclock, it punches 4648 points..   

the latest 4690k @ 3.7ghz will do 8180 points.. only 75% more..

it's first pc I do not know much when it, purchase by parent and it's not embedded vga so buy separate
btw the matter procies is core or clock(ghz) like core2duo with 2,4 or core i3 but 1,8ghz?

what ?

I mean that is important from the processor for faster is core or clock exp: core2duo 2,4ghz or core i3 1,8ghz?

[tp4tissue]

is not really2 old to me

I thought the same thing! I'm running an Intel Q6300 (I'm pretty sure, I'm not home to double check) on my desktop at home, and it must be 7+ years old. 4GB RAM, EVGA 9800 GT, which is probably slightly less old. Some kind of Gigabyte motherboard.  It does everything I need it too. I would love to rebuild it into a smaller form factor, so I can see where the motivation to replace it is coming from. The case I have is huge. I'm too cheap to replace it with no good reason. I would like to upgrade that RAM tho....I'll have to look into that.

pc sice' 08 intel pentium 4,RAM 1gb upgred to 2gb (i want update again to 4gb) RAM ddr2  still expensive to me, i use gigabyte also, VGA is nvidia 9500gt, HDD 320gb (500gb actually but broken i need upgrade at least can play favorite game
you want build small PC interisting! like liva mini

You bought a pentium 4 in 08 ?

Core 2 duo came out in 06 ?


TO be totally pragmatic.. anything 2ghz+ Core2duo with an SSD   will feel pretty darn fast..  Haswell is roughly twice as fast as the core2duo clock for clock.. which isn't actually that much when it comes to daily tasks...

But the Minimum line is there...   if you have anything released prior to c2d, like socket 939, socket 478, early 775..   you'd want to ditch those..


If we look at q6700.. @ 3.7ghz overclock, it punches 4648 points..   

the latest 4690k @ 3.7ghz will do 8180 points.. only 75% more..

it's first pc I do not know much when it, purchase by parent and it's not embedded vga so buy separate
btw the matter procies is core or clock(ghz) like core2duo with 2,4 or core i3 but 1,8ghz?

what ?

I mean that is important from the processor for faster is core or clock exp: core2duo 2,4ghz or core i3 1,8ghz?

Oh.... hahaha..

it depends on Which core2duo  vs which i3..

My comparison was clock for clock, core for core..  between q6700 and haswell 4690


You can't compare a dual core to a quad core, because while the quad core is faster, it's not ALWAYS faster if what you do (watching movies) does not use 4 cores..



If you're asking specifically about  a 2.4ghz conroe c2d, vs the latest (2013) i3 haswell,  then even at 1.8ghz the i3 will be faster..

the i3 of TODAY has hyperthreading AND higher IPC..  so multiply the 1.8ghz by 1.75

that means the i3 of 1.8ghz will be equivalent of a 3.15ghz core2duo.. 


and because of hyperthreading,  in multi-threaded tasks, file compression,  multiply that 3.15 by another  1.35..  4.25..

So.. you would need a 4.25 core2duo to match an i3 that's at 1.8ghz  BUT ONLY in very specific multi-threaded computation..

In a game.. the i3 only match a 3.15ghz core 2 duo..

If we take overclocking into account..  because the core 2 duo can usually hit 3.7ghz.. it will still be potentially faster than the i3 @ 1.8ghz.

[katushkin]

So after browsing, would I be alright overclocking this processor - http://www.ebuyer.com/645548-intel-pentium-dual-core-g3258-3-2ghz-socket-1150-3mb-l3-cache-retail-bx80646g3258

on this Motherboard - http://www.ebuyer.com/507058-gigabyte-ga-b85m-hd3-socket-1150-hdmi-dvi-matx-motherboard-ga-b85m-hd3

If I take those two, stock cooler, 45-500W PSU and the R2, I think I'm going to have a decent enough housing for the rest of my stuff. Then all I need is a GPU.

Edit: My list so far minus GPU - http://www.ebuyer.com/lists/list/405865

[katushkin]

And now I'm looking at GPUs and it looks like for the money I might be better off getting an NVIDIA card but I haven't looked that deeply yet...

OK, I'm on MSI Radeon R7 260X vs MSI GeForce GTX750 and it looks like the 260X is ahead...

List updated, all there, I think ima go with the 804 and not the R2...

[tp4tissue]

No.. if you get the Goku3258 for an $800 build..  You're throwing money down the toilet..  you'll be cpu bottlenecked for whatever GFX card you get in the 150-200 range..

Again.. for an $800 budget.. you're really putting money in the WRONG PLACE by going itx..


if you're DEAD SET on itx...   get a $150 itx z87 which is usually cheaper than similar quality z97...

and get the i7 4690k..

Then figure it out from there..    You can probably get the motherboard Used as well.. many people ditch itx once they realize that it's just fun to look at, but horribly impractical later on..

[katushkin]

No.. if you get the Goku3258 for an $800 build..  You're throwing money down the toilet..  you'll be cpu bottlenecked for whatever GFX card you get in the 150-200 range..

Again.. for an $800 budget.. you're really putting money in the WRONG PLACE by going itx..


if you're DEAD SET on itx...   get a $150 itx z87 which is usually cheaper than similar quality z97...

and get the i7 4690k..

Then figure it out from there..    You can probably get the motherboard Used as well.. many people ditch itx once they realize that it's just fun to look at, but horribly impractical later on..

An i7 4690k? In a media storage build?

I'm not going up to an i7. I honestly want to keep it as cheap as possible tbh, so I might stretch to an i3 4340 3.6ghz.

[The Mad Professor]

No.. if you get the Goku3258 for an $800 build..  You're throwing money down the toilet..  you'll be cpu bottlenecked for whatever GFX card you get in the 150-200 range..

Again.. for an $800 budget.. you're really putting money in the WRONG PLACE by going itx..


if you're DEAD SET on itx...   get a $150 itx z87 which is usually cheaper than similar quality z97...

and get the i7 4690k..

Then figure it out from there..    You can probably get the motherboard Used as well.. many people ditch itx once they realize that it's just fun to look at, but horribly impractical later on..

Media Storage Build with Light Gaming.

A quad core processor would be utterly wasted.