Author Topic: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely  (Read 8323 times)

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Offline berserkfan

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Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:31:16 »
I don't know where to begin, frankly.

At the root of the problem is that I keep making silly purchases that are impulse, or plain unnecessary.

I keep overspending and getting into bad transactions. Such as getting scammed.

And I also am too soft. I'm the type of guy who finds it hard to say no to people, or find it hard to accuse people of telling lies even when it is so obvious that I am being cheated.

I avoid local forums. It's like every 3 times I get into a local transaction, I get cheated. In our local parlance Singlish, 'mint' means 'used for more than one year, with missing parts, no box, dust packed under keycaps'. I keep forgetting, and using the American definition of 'mint', except when I meet somebody and his 'mint' is not the American English 'mint', and he shamelessly assures me that it is 'mint', I wind up going along just because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then I go home and under better lighting, I find that something is clearly 3 years or older. IE significantly not as described.

The strange thing is that I wind up in these kinds of deals when buying from people up front! But not when buying online (since I can file paypal complaint). In other words, I am screwed during the times when NOBODY should ever be screwed.

Feeling frustrated and depressed. How can I get rid of the bad habits of a lifetime? How can I stop impulse purchases, bad purchases, back out of dubious deals, become more assertive as a person, etc?
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Offline digi

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:36:12 »
A poor analogy could be compared to an alcoholic at a bar...you need to get out of the bar, get off the computer. Go do stuff outside..

The computer connects you to your impulse buys. Take a break, go somewhere. Don't want to sound direct/mean but you need to remove yourself from the temptations for a bit.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:37:19 »
Well.. that's kinda why they invented contracts..

Being assertive has nothing to do with it..

If you have a contract.. you have a contract..


If you fly by the seat... and buy something online such as a forum..  the most you can do is call them out on it, so other people won't trade with the dude no more..

Offline FrostyToast

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #3 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:37:26 »
Wait three days after you look at something you want?
I mean... food items may be out of the question, however many of the food items you buy could be non-essential.
You could also dump a third of your income into a savings account so that you think you have less money than what you really have.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #4 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:37:50 »
A poor analogy could be compared to an alcoholic at a bar...you need to get out of the bar, get off the computer. Go do stuff outside..

The computer connects you to your impulse buys. Take a break, go somewhere. Don't want to sound direct/mean but you need to remove yourself from the temptations for a bit.

This is not the solution..

Leaving the computer is not an option..


Offline MAR82

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #5 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:39:53 »
Wait three days after you look at something you want?
I mean... food items may be out of the question, however many of the food items you buy could be non-essential.
You could also dump a third of your income into a savings account so that you think you have less money than what you really have.

As hard as it sounds, I think FrostyToast had a great idea

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #6 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:44:00 »
A poor analogy could be compared to an alcoholic at a bar...you need to get out of the bar, get off the computer. Go do stuff outside..

The computer connects you to your impulse buys. Take a break, go somewhere. Don't want to sound direct/mean but you need to remove yourself from the temptations for a bit.

nONONO digi, I don't have such a problem when at the computer! For instance, I do negotiate prices hard with people when online, and I have even filed complaints against a couple ghers in the past. I'm not that much of a pushover when I have my trusty keyboard under my fingertips.

The problem is up-front transactions. I am VERY bad with these. In our local versions of craigs' lists I always get screwed. The same thing that won't get me screwed when online (since I will read reviews and ask people and sometimes research a seller's reputation and exhibit heck lots of patience before I enter a buy), I get screwed when it's up front, when someone's doing the hard sell thing, when I can't just say wait a moment let me do the research on my phone, when I'm faced with something worth less than half the price online... I'm terrible and keep losing money that way.
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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #7 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:45:58 »
Just decide to stop spending on impulse. Haha

It can be done, I have done it, but I always get sucked back in.

But really, just decide that you aren't going to buy something unless you really need it. Every time you start to make a purchase, ask youself, "Do I really NEED this, or do I just WANT it?"

To avoid scams, try and listen to your gut more. If something seems too good to be true, it is. And if something gives you a shady feeling about a deal, just stop right there. No need to go through with things just to be polite. They sure aren't being polite by trying to pull something over on you.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #8 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:48:34 »
Well, then your problem isn't transactions in particular..

It's social anxiety.. LOL

I had a buddy a while back, he was very social anxious.. But after he finally got a GF, it really made him open up..

I asked the GF, how she did it..   She was pretty open about this, and the answer actually surprised me..  Her words were, " I just let him do things to me, things that are more animal-istic, and the mentality has translates toward other things. "


Offline SpAmRaY

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #9 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:48:35 »
Just decide to stop spending on impulse. Haha

It can be done, I have done it, but I always get sucked back in.

But really, just decide that you aren't going to buy something unless you really need it. Every time you start to make a purchase, ask youself, "Do I really NEED this, or do I just WANT it?"

To avoid scams, try and listen to your gut more. If something seems too good to be true, it is. And if something gives you a shady feeling about a deal, just stop right there. No need to go through with things just to be polite. They sure aren't being polite by trying to pull something over on you.

This is sound advice and I would add to it something I've started doing lately that I've seen suggested many times, if you really think you want something wait a day or two and come back and re-evaluate your desire for that item.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #10 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:50:34 »
Just decide to stop spending on impulse. Haha

It can be done, I have done it, but I always get sucked back in.

But really, just decide that you aren't going to buy something unless you really need it. Every time you start to make a purchase, ask youself, "Do I really NEED this, or do I just WANT it?"

To avoid scams, try and listen to your gut more. If something seems too good to be true, it is. And if something gives you a shady feeling about a deal, just stop right there. No need to go through with things just to be polite. They sure aren't being polite by trying to pull something over on you.

This is sound advice and I would add to it something I've started doing lately that I've seen suggested many times, if you really think you want something wait a day or two and come back and re-evaluate your desire for that item.

Impulse buy is always gonna be there, but the op is OK with impulse-buying,  he's not ok with the Exchange process..

Offline bueller

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #11 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 10:56:49 »
Every time you start to make a purchase, ask youself, "Do I really NEED this, or do I just WANT it?"

I do this a lot now and it's really helping. I usually sleep on it and can reason not buying it after that.
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Offline berserkfan

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #12 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 11:12:52 »
TP4, it’s not quite social anxiety.

There’s a side of me that’s much more (I guess you can call it) Chinese, and it pops up by default in social interactions (social conditioning?).

For instance, I am nonconfrontational in daily interactions. I like Harmony and Being Harmonious. I give face to people. I want to ‘get along’. I am loathe to tell (or show, via body language or actions), someone that what he says simply does not gel with my observed reality. Which means I don’t point out that he’s bs-ing me, I don’t walk off, and I let him lead me by the nose.

That is very frustrating to cure.
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Offline frosty

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 11:21:12 »
Wah you make me worry of your impression of me :(

Anyways, just say no. I've learnt not to be 好好先生 anymore.

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 11:42:53 »
haha.. essentially what you're saying is, there's too much rice in your diet?? 

Ramen may not be the solution here either, 'to my dismay',  too Kor/Jap


You need some 'Murica...   Steak and Freedom Fries..

+ Hit the Gym.. also..  that girlfriend thing.. It really really helped my friend.. he's been quite a different person since..   

Offline nubbinator

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #15 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 11:49:45 »
For instance, I am nonconfrontational in daily interactions. I like Harmony and Being Harmonious. I give face to people. I want to ‘get along’. I am loathe to tell (or show, via body language or actions), someone that what he says simply does not gel with my observed reality. Which means I don’t point out that he’s bs-ing me, I don’t walk off, and I let him lead me by the nose.

Remember, there is no harmony without conflict.  Nature fights itself to find balance.  It is only through that continuous struggle with others and coming to live with the surrounding that it is possible to be in harmony with the world around you.

I am not saying that you need to be an angry bitter *******, but that there is often resolution and greater harmony found as a result of conflict.  Those couples that have the strongest relationships are those who are not afraid of conflict and who learn how to engage that conflict in a way that creates a beneficial resolution.

Being harmonious does not mean not engaging in conflict, it means learning when that conflict is appropriate and when it will create greater good and harmony.  It does not mean being a push over.

Just look at what you said here, the ardent desire to have harmony with others no matter what is causing disharmony in yourself.  You would not be feeling depressed and distraught if you did not have a struggle within yourself about how you feel and realizing that your emotions and well being are suffering without good reason or cause.

But enough with the new-agey sounding stuff.

Others have given good ideas, but I'd recommend practicing conflict and conflict resolution.  Maybe have family or friends challenge you and learn how to be more assertive in that practice. Maybe do public speaking or debate.  Take business classes or barter with people in a market or swap meet.  Find some way where you can be more assertive and learn how to challenge things in a beneficial way.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #16 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 11:54:23 »
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Offline intelli78

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #17 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 12:12:27 »


Remember, there is no harmony without conflict.  Nature fights itself to find balance.  It is only through that continuous struggle with others and coming to live with the surrounding that it is possible to be in harmony with the world around you.

I am not saying that you need to be an angry bitter *******, but that there is often resolution and greater harmony found as a result of conflict.  Those couples that have the strongest relationships are those who are not afraid of conflict and who learn how to engage that conflict in a way that creates a beneficial resolution.

Being harmonious does not mean not engaging in conflict, it means learning when that conflict is appropriate and when it will create greater good and harmony.  It does not mean being a push over.

Just look at what you said here, the ardent desire to have harmony with others no matter what is causing disharmony in yourself.  You would not be feeling depressed and distraught if you did not have a struggle within yourself about how you feel and realizing that your emotions and well being are suffering without good reason or cause.

But enough with the new-agey sounding stuff.

Others have given good ideas, but I'd recommend practicing conflict and conflict resolution.  Maybe have family or friends challenge you and learn how to be more assertive in that practice. Maybe do public speaking or debate.  Take business classes or barter with people in a market or swap meet.  Find some way where you can be more assertive and learn how to challenge things in a beneficial way.

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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 12:17:34 »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 12:39:41 »
I hate price negotiation.

As a person who has made my living in "sales" for decades, I have been successful when my situation did not involve price negotiation, and have always failed spectacularly when significant price negotiations were required.

I tell a prospective customer, up front, that I will give him the best price that I can, and that it is not negotiable. The people who I am successful with appreciate my honesty, and we can have an open and productive dialogue throughout the project.

People who do not take me at my word, and still attempt to negotiate price, are thus insulting me and I resent it. I rarely win their business, but it does not bother me. They were likely to be customers who would have been "trouble" all along, and, perhaps, might have even attempted to re-negotiate the deal even after it was agreed on.

It is my belief that "price negotiation" is a mechanism by which dishonest people are able to do business together.

I believe that the entire process is founded on, and carried out in dishonesty.

Let's look at an example where I have an item for sale.

Buyer asks: "what is the least that you will take for it?"
Seller replies: "$100"

Buyer (to himself: "he is lying, he will take less") "I won't pay over $70"
Seller (to himself: "he knew that I was lying, but he is lying also") "I would take $90"

Buyer: "I can give you $80"
Seller: "I will take $85"

Both: "OK"
Buyer (to himself: "I wonder if he would have really taken $80?")
Seller (to himself: "I wonder whether he would have really given me $90?")

To me, this was not an honorable transaction and neither party is truly happy.

The first thing that I learned, on the first day of my first sales training class, is that the definition of a good business transaction is that both parties believe that they received a fair deal. That has always been the ideal that I look for in my dealings with other people: giving and receiving fairness.

The only way that this can work, in real life, is when you are willing to walk away from any deal that you do not feel is right. In the absence of "external forces" this is usually pretty easy.

But, as a seller, if you "must sell" then you have to accept the possibility of letting your product go for less than its true value, because you are under duress. You need to think carefully about what you can and cannot allow.

As a buyer, if you are casually walking along and something "catches your eye" then it is easy to simply keep on walking.

But, on the other hand, the more time, energy, emotion, and effort that you have invested in a deal, the harder it will be to let go when it seems close to being consummated.

My final advice is to try to mentally prepare yourself to walk away from any deal, any time.

Besides, if you are going against a price negotiator, that is the only way you will really hear his best offer!
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 13:31:45 »
I hate price negotiation.

My final advice is to try to mentally prepare yourself to walk away from any deal, any time.

Besides, if you are going against a price negotiator, that is the only way you will really hear his best offer!
I agree with that whole post Fohat.  I will walk away even if it's something I really would like to have.  I make my best offer, and if they don't take it, it's their loss.  Sometimes I am disappointed, but I am not going to go through a bunch of hassle with a reluctant seller either.  I can't look at it like "I'm so depressed".  There are always good opportunities for everything. 

Offline Karura

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 13:46:01 »
May I offer you a piece of advice that I follow myself?

Before making any sort of purchase, I research everything I can about it and make sure I really want it, then after that:

SLEEP.

Sleep for a night, and make the decision the morning after.

If you still like the item as much as you did the night before, then by all means, buy it.

Always sleep on it, before making a purchase, unless you don't have the time.

I understand some purchases require speed, but for those that don't (such as a GB you have a week to think about), sleep on it.

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 January 2015, 13:50:19 by Karura »

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Offline jalaj

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 14:08:02 »
learn how to say NO to people, especially in the case when you're in position to get screwed over.
Also when you're contacting these people prior to meeting up, be blunt and say, "hey if the item is not as described, I am going to back out of the deal no matter what. Our time is precious, so don't waste my time and I won't waste yours." Be firm on that sentiment, so hold yourself to it. If the item is not as described, then back out immediately. Tell em thank you, but the item is not as described, sorry no can do, adios (in your own language of course). Be polite but curt. More importantly you'll feel better because you didn't waver and be undermined by some chump trying to poke u in the butt.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 14:19:04 »
Or bring a Gun..  Nothing says confidence as GUN..

n'fact, he might just let you have the thing you were trying to buy for free if he sees you got a nice gun.

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Offline Veridis

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 18:21:48 »




I avoid local forums. It's like every 3 times I get into a local transaction, I get cheated. In our local parlance Singlish, 'mint' means 'used for more than one year, with missing parts, no box, dust packed under keycaps'. I keep forgetting, and using the American definition of 'mint', except when I meet somebody and his 'mint' is not the American English 'mint', and he shamelessly assures me that it is 'mint', I wind up going along just because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then I go home and under better lighting, I find that something is clearly 3 years or older. IE significantly not as described.

The strange thing is that I wind up in these kinds of deals when buying from people up front! But not when buying online (since I can file paypal complaint). In other words, I am screwed during the times when NOBODY should ever be screwed.

Feeling frustrated and depressed. How can I get rid of the bad habits of a lifetime? How can I stop impulse purchases, bad purchases, back out of dubious deals, become more assertive as a person, etc?

I'm from Singapore too. People always rate things as 10/10 even if the item ia used for 1 year. That's why I always post a photo of the item's current condition before selling, photos don't lie.
You need to start turning people down if the item is not up to your expectations.. Maybe start small, like getting your order redone at McDonalds if they screw up?
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Offline derezzed

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 21:16:32 »
I know that the Japanese have an aversion to overt social conflict.  I was not aware the Chinese had a similar cultural trait. The way you talk about America, I first assumed you were an ex-pat afraid to be a rude foreigner to native Singaporeans.  Now, I’m guessing you are American but with a strongly Chinese cultural upbringing (or Chinese who attended university in America).   Regardless, I agree with Nubbinator.  You need to practice the behaviors you want to cultivate in yourself.   Telling you to just stop doing what you’re doing now is not helpful advice.  If this was something you could just stop doing, you wouldn’t be posting here.  But the fact that you are able to articulate your problem, your displeasure with it, and the root causes makes me confident that you are ready to put in the effort to make a change. 

I’m not a therapist and I don’t know the particulars of your life, nor do I need to know them, but I would suggest starting with some more self-reflection.   You’ve already identified cultural forces that make it difficult for you to be more assertive and situations where you find this problem arises (face to face social interactions).  Ask yourself if there are any other circumstances in your life that you think make it difficult to be assertive – events from your childhood, for example.  Again, I don’t need to know details nor am I suggesting that there is anything more to your situation other than what you’ve told us.   But asking yourself why and what and how may help you better understand why you have that problem and may give you some insight on how to address it.  “Why do I feel this way?” or “Why do I do this?” or “What is it about this event that caused me to feel this way?” or “How did this affect me?” or are some examples of questions you can ask yourself.  I’ve gone through periods where I’ve asked myself these questions and, for me, it was mentally exhausting but worth it.  Try keeping a journal about this process.  The act of writing down your thoughts has a powerful effect on the process and, as you make revelations about yourself, you can review your past entries to refresh your memory or get meta and see how accurate your assessment was at that time (examining your examination, as it were). 

If you’re pretty sure you’ve got a good understanding of your problem, you can skip the self-examination and take Nubbinator’s advice.  Practice being more assertive.  Find people who will help you role play situations where you wish you could be more assertive.  Also, try some visualization on your own.  Imagine yourself standing face to face with someone for an exchange.  Imagine that there is some very minor issue with the item that you don’t like, such as the color is just a slight shade different than it was in the photo. It would be too easy to walk away from a major issue such as missing pieces.  In your mind, make that slight difference important enough to you to decline the deal.  Imagine yourself telling the seller that it’s not quite what you were looking for (or something like that).  Then, imagine yourself in a situation where there is nothing wrong with the item you are looking to buy but that you simply changed your mind by the time you got to the location of the exchange.  Again, imagine yourself telling the seller that it’s not what you are looking for or that something’s come up and you have to pass.  You do not need to be specific about why you are backing out; you are not obligated to give the seller the personal details of your life.   Try imagining situations where the seller is understanding and you part ways amicably.  Try imagining situations where the seller is irate and demands you buy the item.  Don’t imagine yourself buying the item, though.  Whatever the circumstance, end the transaction on your terms.  Once you successfully incorporate that behavior in your real life, don’t be afraid to negotiate the price if you feel the seller misrepresented the item but you still want it.

I’m a believer in the power of writing.  I would suggest writing down some of these situations as if you were recalling something that actually happened to you.  I would also suggest writing down real-life situations where you were not satisfied because you were not assertive.  When recalling real-life situations, I would suggest engaging in a deeper self-examination and asking yourself how you felt at that time, what made you feel that way, why you didn’t do something to change the situation, and what could you have done to make it so you did not regret what happened.   Maybe try writing the down how events of the transaction actually occurred, then write down an account of how the transaction would have occurred if you had behaved more assertively.   

I wish you success in changing your behavior.  If this doesn’t work, you can practice pretending you are Luke Skywalker using the Jedi mind trick on Bib Fortuna in Jabba’s palace —“You will take me to Jabba now.”  I hope this helps.  If not, you can always practice being assertive now and tell me I’m full of s**t and to f*** off.

Offline tbc

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 21:27:28 »
chinese people being polite in a business transaction...?  we're talking about mainlanders? wat.  like wtfzorzBBQ!!!!111! wat.  first time i've ever heard anyone even suggest that.


proper negotiation requires being able to read the other person's expectations.  although, this is really just the fundamental basis of social interactions in general.

a 'grand theory' is rather difficult to express (if it exists).  learning business and specifically how to negotiate (and how to spot a scam) involves learning one 'trick' per occasion.  you need to PRACTICE to get good at it.


when people first start learning to be more aggressive, they tend to overdo it.  they should rather just split the difference between the sticker price and their target price.  that's a much more conservative goal that will likely have the other party staying invested in the negotiation for a longer period of time (this is good for the learner - simply saying words enough times will help you get over your nerves).  yes, you likely WILL lose potential savings, but learning isn't necessarily free.

also, please don't try to negotiate with a multinational company...not going to work; not the time and place for it.



talking more in general now:

negotiating is a competition and fun for quite a few people.  the time spent is time spent entertained.  this entertainment value gets added to the value of the product and the negotiated price reductions.

EDIT:

tip #2:  don't think that you ALWAYS have to negotiate down a price.  negotiation takes energy and if you do it for pennies at a time, you're really losing money in they end if you don't happen to personally enjoy the process.
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 January 2015, 21:31:53 by tbc »
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Offline SL89

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 21:39:08 »
Open a bank account with an old school style bank

Put your money there

Leave it unlinked from Paypal / Google Wallet

Get a bank pass book

If you *really* want or need something, you will go thru the effort to get what you want, as getting to your money will be harder.

If you do not *really* want or need it, you won't bother with it.

I went from burning tons of income to saving almost instantly.

It will help a lot more if you direct your income to that bank and make a weekly withdrawl for cash to keep you going.

Personally it took this barrier to end impulse purchases and made me re-evaluate my spending in such a way as to actually make me do *more* research into the things i wanted to get for myself to make sure it was exactly what i wanted.

Offline ideus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 21:54:43 »
Enjoy your hard earned depression  :p .
« Last Edit: Wed, 28 January 2015, 22:30:43 by ideus »

Offline berserkfan

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 28 January 2015, 23:46:23 »
Hello all

Thank you for your responses.

I haven’t read more than half. I’m emotionally drained right now. The issues go deeper than that, as you may have figured by now. Call it mid life crisis if you want, but I’m very unhappy that many issues in my life were never resolved, and that while when working a normal routine these issues are hidden, they pop up when there is a change to my routine – such as when I have an exchange with someone outside the workplace and family, where I am confronted with facts that are not what I expected, and where I am led about by the nose by someone who isn’t even some kind of master liar/ manipulator/ psychopath dominator.

You can guess some of the personal issues. Such as confidence, personal interactions, etc. Obviously I don’t want to air all my personal feelings in public, but it’s obvious to me that I am still far from being wise and cautious and patient and savvy and disciplined and all the other things I like to talk about in theory (and which I do manage to practice occasionally online).

I think I need a break from geekhack. The problem is not the people here (you’re wonderful, or at least many of you). It’s with the Geek mindset. I’m not an investment banker, a lawyer or a military guy – but I need their type of mental training to avoid being a pushover!

Maybe I ought to be hanging around in some shark forums. Then I'll pick up some shark skills and instincts and habits and ways of thinking, instead of being that easily bullied geek who'd give in to other people's aggressive hard sell.
Most of the modding can be done on your own once you break through the psychological barriers.

Offline derezzed

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 01:04:39 »
Thank you (and intelli78) for having the courage to talk about your problems.  Before I elaborate, let me say that I have not been active here very long and I may not have a good understanding of the community.  I certainly don't have a complete understanding.  Having said that, I like GeekHack but it's had this odd sort of feeling for me.  Someone (or some people) is always buying something or telling someone else to buy something.  It seems like some specific people are constantly buying things.  I couldn't really identify what felt odd about GeekHack, but now that you and intelli78 have shared your problems, it's shed some light on my feelings.  GeekHack can have something of a reality distortion field at times.  Not like Apple's RDF, GeekHack sometimes feels like a fantasy land, with people posting new keyboards, new keycaps, new PCBs all the time.  Now, I see how GeekHack can support the type of environment where compulsive shoppers can attempt to fill their needs or even enable each other.  I'm not a compulsive shopper but I am a tech fiend and I can hear the sweet siren song of new keyboards, Korean keyboards, custom keyboards waiting to be assembled by my own hands, custom keycap sets, split-layouts, Topre, Alps, Ergo Clears, and capacitive buckling springs.  Just typing out those words is enough to make me feel like this guy.

89058-0

For someone who loves keyboards and has a compulsive need to shop for a constantly changing selection of novel stuff, GeekHack must be heaven (Type Heaven?).   It's easy for me to avoid falling into that trap because my funds are limited (stupid vehicle expenses hacked my wallet) but, given a different set of circumstances, I can't say I wouldn't go on a keyboard shopping binge.  You and intelli78 have encouraged me to approach my future binge with much introspection (oh, who the hell am I kidding? I'm going to buy at least 4 more keyboards when I can afford it).   I'm not attacking GeekHack; it's a wonderful place with wonderful people that do and produce many wonderful things.  But there is an aspect to it that can enable some less-than-desirable behaviors in people who are prone to those behaviors.  Guns don't kill people.  People kill people (but they use guns to do it).  GeekHack doesn't hack wallets.  People hack wallets (but they use GeekHack to do it).
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 January 2015, 01:09:32 by derezzed »

Offline feizor

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 02:30:40 »
when I have an exchange with someone outside the workplace and family, where I am confronted with facts that are not what I expected, and where I am led about by the nose by someone who isn�t even some kind of master liar/ manipulator/ psychopath dominator.


I think I need a break from geekhack. The problem is not the people here (you�re wonderful, or at least many of you). It�s with the Geek mindset. I�m not an investment banker, a lawyer or a military guy � but I need their type of mental training to avoid being a pushover!


I'm surprised you don't have any master liar/ manipulator/ psychopath dominator at your workplace or in your family.

If you are getting scammed all the time in local trades, stop dealing locally. If you want to avoid conflict, avoid getting into these situations altogether.

If you want to curb your spending, like many others have said, don't by what you don't need. I mean who really *NEEDS* a mechanical keyboard right?  :))

Offline paicrai

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 02:35:03 »
i see "feeling depressed" in the subject line please accept this hug from me
THE FEMINIST ILLUMINATI

I will literally **** you raw paicrai, I hope you're legal by the time I meet you.
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good **** go౦ԁ ****👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌**** right👌👌th 👌 ere👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯  i say so 💯  thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good ****

Offline iri

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #33 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 06:07:29 »
I don't know where to begin, frankly.

At the root of the problem is that I keep making silly purchases that are impulse, or plain unnecessary.

I keep overspending and getting into bad transactions. Such as getting scammed.

And I also am too soft. I'm the type of guy who finds it hard to say no to people, or find it hard to accuse people of telling lies even when it is so obvious that I am being cheated.

I avoid local forums. It's like every 3 times I get into a local transaction, I get cheated. In our local parlance Singlish, 'mint' means 'used for more than one year, with missing parts, no box, dust packed under keycaps'. I keep forgetting, and using the American definition of 'mint', except when I meet somebody and his 'mint' is not the American English 'mint', and he shamelessly assures me that it is 'mint', I wind up going along just because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. Then I go home and under better lighting, I find that something is clearly 3 years or older. IE significantly not as described.

The strange thing is that I wind up in these kinds of deals when buying from people up front! But not when buying online (since I can file paypal complaint). In other words, I am screwed during the times when NOBODY should ever be screwed.

Feeling frustrated and depressed. How can I get rid of the bad habits of a lifetime? How can I stop impulse purchases, bad purchases, back out of dubious deals, become more assertive as a person, etc?
isn't it because of the chinese culture of not saying no?
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #34 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 07:21:42 »
We're gonna need to start like a Geekhack therapy/financial advice forum or something.  Gosh.
Wish I had some gif or quote for this space, but I got nothing

Offline iri

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #35 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 07:24:09 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.
(...)Whereas back then I wrote about the tyranny of the majority, today I'd combine that with the tyranny of the minorities. These days, you have to be careful of both. They both want to control you. The first group, by making you do the same thing over and over again. The second group is indicated by the letters I get from the Vassar girls who want me to put more women's lib in The Martian Chronicles, or from blacks who want more black people in Dandelion Wine.
I say to both bunches, Whether you're a majority or minority, bug off! To hell with anybody who wants to tell me what to write. Their society breaks down into subsections of minorities who then, in effect, burn books by banning them. All this political correctness that's rampant on campuses is b.s.

-Ray Bradbury

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #36 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 12:16:36 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.

The years of therapy haven't helped.
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Offline nubbinator

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #37 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 12:31:03 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.


Snow tha Product is awesome.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 16:50:13 »
We're gonna need to start like a Geekhack therapy/financial advice forum or something.  Gosh.


The Way-of-the-Ramen.. 

Solves both problems..

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 16:52:05 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.

The years of therapy haven't helped.

You've had YEARS of therapy ?  Rich-bastard...  the rest of us just inebriate and eat junk food.

Offline Novus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 17:25:35 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.

The years of therapy haven't helped.

You've had YEARS of therapy ?  Rich-bastard...  the rest of us just inebriate and eat junk food.

89117-0

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 17:29:42 »
It is my belief that "price negotiation" is a mechanism by which dishonest people are able to do business together. I believe that the entire process is founded on, and carried out in dishonesty. Let's look at an example where I have an item for sale.

[haggling example, where supposedly both parties are "lying" and think the other is also "lying"]

To me, this was not an honorable transaction and neither party is truly happy.
This is purely a matter of your cultural expectations, and the set of values you were raised with. If you spend some time in other parts of the world, and keep an open mind, you’ll see that other people think of haggling in a dramatically different way.

To many, haggling is a fun game, and is undertaken with no ill intent and no hard feelings. It’s a fairly natural outcome when you have a small scale market with no great source of information about universal prices or what each side is actually willing to put up with, and no large operators backed up by economies of scale that small-timers can’t match. In the US, most small purchases are made at retail stores, where the sales clerks have no personal stake in the transaction, there is a clear sticker price on every item, the prices are generally small enough to not bankrupt a middle-class person, and it is easy to compare prices across stores.

As a result, middle-class Americans have a set of cultural norms/values that see negotiations as distasteful.

(Instead of negotiating prices individually, the way large American corporations eke out extra profit is by constantly changing their prices, figuring out how to make slightly different products at different price points to draw different customers, sticking weird items in the small print of contracts, tacking on lots of extra hidden fees, making it difficult for people to cancel recurring payments, or at a less personal scale figuring out how to do arbitrage of supply costs, taxes, various financial instruments, etc.)

It’s only when you get to big-ticket negotiations like furniture, car, or house purchases, or salary negotiations, business deals, political compromises, etc. where you start getting real negotiations. Suddenly, people with middle-class American values are at a huge disadvantage and end up getting screwed over because they don’t have any idea how to negotiate and they think the whole thing seems sleazy.

The way I see it, the set of American middle-class values that see negotiation as wrong is basically a way of smoothing and simplifying many types of transactions, at the expense of never really figuring out the best deal for either side. We make prices a more rigid abstraction than they necessarily have to be, because it’s then easier for us to reason about individual transactions, saving effort. It’s a strategy that only works for middle-class people, because they have enough extra income cushion that losing the deal won’t be catastrophic, and they aren’t very commonly purchasing expensive items that might break the bank. This set of values is a sort of cushion or bubble. It breaks down fast for very poor people who can’t afford it, or for anyone in institutional leadership roles where negotiations really matter. As a result, all the “fair-dealing” folks get squashed out of such roles, and the people left tend to not only be better at negotiation, but also have a much looser set of moral principles overall and less empathy, and at the top levels of business and politics &c. we get a lot of sociopaths. I don’t have great evidence about this, but I have a hunch that the distaste for negotiation among middle-class Americans actually leads us to have worse leaders than we would have if more people had experience and understanding of how to negotiate, because there would be more people who were both good negotiators and had strong moral principles.

I have an Iranian friend who is one of the most upright, loyal, straight-shooting guys I know, but who is a masterful negotiator, because in Iran the custom is to haggle for sport. He constantly gets all kinds of amazing deals on stuff that I would never even try to negotiate for, just by going and asking and being persistent about it. The folks on the other side of his negotiation never obviously end up feeling scammed as far as I can tell, though they might get tired of it if everyone tried to do the same thing.

In particular, it’s not at all necessary for negotiations to be adversarial, aggressive, or underhanded. All the best negotiators I know drive a hard bargain, but are also looking to make deals where the other side ends up happy, not resentful, and are creative about offering up “out of the box” solutions to negotiation problems.

Quote
My final advice is to try to mentally prepare yourself to walk away from any deal, any time.
This is good advice for anyone. If anyone wants to read more complete theoretical work about this, the term to look up is best alternative to a negotiated agreement, BATNA.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 January 2015, 17:39:53 by jacobolus »

Offline vivalarevolución

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 17:36:16 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.

The years of therapy haven't helped.

You've had YEARS of therapy ?  Rich-bastard...  the rest of us just inebriate and eat junk food.


I consider alcoholism to be a form of therapy.
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Offline Novus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 17:39:08 »
yeah guys, you are so damaged.

The years of therapy haven't helped.

You've had YEARS of therapy ?  Rich-bastard...  the rest of us just inebriate and eat junk food.


I consider alcoholism to be a form of therapy.
Absolutely.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 18:29:51 »
Jacobolus -

I thought through my response to your post, but then recognized that I cannot quote you.

When things are not "fun" to me, I avoid them if possible. Life is simply too short.

And I do not have any respect for the sort of persons who consider "haggling over money" to be "fun"
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 19:26:16 »
If you spend some time in other parts of the world, and keep an open mind, you’ll see that other people think of haggling in a dramatically different way.

Granted, the time I have spent outside of the US would total only about 4 months, but I consider myself to be an exceptionally open-minded person. In fact, I consider myself to pretty much be the equivalent of an ageing, unreconstructed hippie.

And thus, I perceive emotions such as greed, power-lust, and materialism to be ugly and evil, representing some of the very worst aspects of human behavior.

So, bottom line, to me, people who think of haggling in a dramatically different way are simply **** people, little better than animals.

And as to your political analogy, as horrific and unconscionable as the recent US elections turned out to be, the Chinese, who might be considered the "best negotiators" in the world, certainly have one of the the worst political structures. But would that be because the "good negotiators" have utterly squashed the "bad negotiators?" You may be right, and I fear that is where we are headed, if we are not buried first.

Just my opinion, of course.
From the US Constitution, Article 1, Section 8 :

The   Congress   shall have Power
To declare War,  grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To provide for calling forth the Militia  to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

Offline tbc

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 19:47:00 »
people realize that when they say they are something...doesn't actually mke it true right?


for example, an iranian spy can say 'i am an american citizen' and that doesn't actually make him an american citizen.

or an axe murderer on cctv can just plead 'not guilty' and walk away an innocent man.  reality be damned amirite.


not my opinion.  just reality.
ALL zombros wanted:  dead or undead or dead-dead.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 20:06:13 »
And I do not have any respect for the sort of persons who consider "haggling over money" to be "fun"
And thus, I perceive emotions such as greed, power-lust, and materialism to be ugly and evil, representing some of the very worst aspects of human behavior.

So, bottom line, to me, people who think of haggling in a dramatically different way are simply **** people, little better than animals.

I also personally don’t like doing intense negotiation, I find it very mentally taxing and stressful, and I have a hard time in places where it’s expected/required to do lots of negotiation for stuff that seems routine or trivial. It makes me feel very much like an outsider.

But that’s because I was also raised with middle-class American values, and never really had to do much explicit negotiation in my day-to-day life.

What I’m trying to tell you is that people who enjoy haggling aren’t necessarily greedy, power-hungry, or even especially materialistic. They just do it as a game, and what I find stressful and annoying they find to be an interesting and engaging set of challenges.

I think it’s very unproductive to label people as “****” or “animals” just because they have a different set of cultural norms. In particular, the biggest problem isn’t usually people in their own societies interacting with their own cultural norms and values. The biggest problem is when people of differing cultural expectations interact with each-other and end up with severe misunderstandings of each-other.

There are plenty of aspects of American middle-class culture that people from Japan, or the Middle East, or West Africa, or even England, find to be unusual, confusing, distasteful, or in some cases morally reprehensible, “ugly and evil”.

If making a ranking of ugly/evil things in the world, haggling over prices when buying fruit or artisan goods (or keyboards, cars, salaries or even congressional votes [I mean via political compromise, not personal bribes]) is pretty far down my list of things to worry about. Much worse is when there’s actual explicit lying, extortion, fraud, broken contractual promises, or real corruption like political votes being bought off by campaign donations, executive appointees retiring and being given plum jobs in the industries they were regulating, or obvious injustice like people being denied jobs/housing/etc. because of their gender or skin color. Not to even mention civilians being bombed, slavery, people being jailed without fair trial, torture, collective punishment, etc. etc.
« Last Edit: Thu, 29 January 2015, 20:17:19 by jacobolus »

Offline Xonar

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 20:23:07 »
I used to be a pushover in much the same way as you are. I had a hard time saying no, I had a hard time calling anyone out, and I even sometimes had a hard time disagreeing with people. For me, the issue has gotten better with time and practice. I don't know if it will be the same for you, but I can say that practice is something you should consider. Start online, say no to people, call people out on stuff; it's just easier here. Then transition into real life and do the same things you've done on here. Say no, and say it with confidence. Your issue is totally solvable. Just gotta work at it, and you'll get the hang of it before too long.
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Offline Novus

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Re: Feeling Depressed because I spend too much money and unwisely
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 29 January 2015, 20:45:49 »
I used to be a pushover in much the same way as you are. I had a hard time saying no, I had a hard time calling anyone out, and I even sometimes had a hard time disagreeing with people. For me, the issue has gotten better with time and practice. I don't know if it will be the same for you, but I can say that practice is something you should consider. Start online, say no to people, call people out on stuff; it's just easier here. Then transition into real life and do the same things you've done on here. Say no, and say it with confidence. Your issue is totally solvable. Just gotta work at it, and you'll get the hang of it before too long.

^This is more to the point and probably addresses the underlying issue beserk has.

One part of is you probably just aren't confident in yourself for one reason or another.
The other part is just you don't know how to negotiate and deal with high-paced pressure sales (let's say hustlers) in a swap/meet environment.

The rest of you guys are just ****ting out of your ass with this bull**** ridiculous cultural stuff.
You guys are mixing things up and giving examples that don't even make sense.





« Last Edit: Thu, 29 January 2015, 20:54:16 by the1onewolf »