Author Topic: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions  (Read 3116 times)

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Offline fohat.digs

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World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 19:15:08 »
Here we are, a bunch of self-acknowledged "geeks" blathering on about computer keyboards (and, arrrggh! key caps!).

I, for one, would love to hear the opinions of peer-acknowledged, top-shelf, world-recognized speed typists - who can set records and win competitions by actually typing at amazing speeds on computer keyboards.

Are any of you out there? Reading this?

Would you deign to proffer any words of wisdom to us lowly peons regarding your opinions as to what attributes are significant to seek out in a computer keyboard?
 
Some of us would appreciate your words of wisdom.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline Novus

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 20 February 2015, 19:20:50 »
No, my hands are busy.

Offline Defect

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 07:03:06 »
Quote
As of 2005, writer Barbara Blackburn was the fastest alphanumerical English language typist in the world, according to The Guinness Book of World Records. Using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard, she maintained 150 wpm for 50 minutes, and 170 wpm for shorter periods. Her top speed was 212 wpm.

I can only maintain 120 WPM for like 30 mins, so I'm only slightly above average.  And I found that switch type does not matter.

Fresh into linears, I made a lot of mistakes at first but after a day of getting used to it, results were similar to what I got with SKCM White ALPS and Topre.

The only thing about switch type...55g Topre was rough on the fingers over long time, MX blues were inconsistent with aural feedback, SKCM Whites somehow felt like they were getting too stiff, and Linears made me feel itchy (like I NEEDED tactility), and Buckling Spring got too noisy.


All switches blow.

Not pictured: KeyCool 84 [MX Red] | Focus 2001 [Complicated White Alps]
Endgame Board | Defect's Watermelon Board Build Doc

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #3 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 08:20:08 »
What is the "Dvorak Simplified Keyboard" and what switches does it use?

Maybe you should try blue Alps with light lube.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline Dihedral

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #4 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 10:26:47 »
What is the "Dvorak Simplified Keyboard" and what switches does it use?

Maybe you should try blue Alps with light lube.

The Dvorak Simplified Keyboard is a layout not an actual piece of hardware.

I think blue alps come with some dry lube already in place. Anyhow, they're so smooth that they barely need lubing, and they are pretty delicate so I would not want to have to open / close them too many times.

Offline davkol

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #5 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 12:09:40 »
...and interestingly enough, Barbara Blackburn had first failed a typing class that taught QWERTY,  from what I've read.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #6 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 15:04:35 »

The Dvorak Simplified Keyboard is a layout not an actual piece of hardware.


That is like telling the brand of tires on the winning race car without telling the manufacturer of the car!

And yes, I avoid opening Alps switches like the plague.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline drewba

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #7 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 15:18:44 »
I've faced off against Sean Wrona on typeracer and held my own for mere seconds AMA

But serious, I think I've all but maxed out my typing speed using qwerty. I do 5-20 typeraces a day and have seen gradual progress but have maxed out at 137 WPM with a ~115 WPM average. I do not see myself getting to 150+WPM level. MX Clears helped me greatly reduce errors and slightly boosted my speeds, I'm testing out ergo clears right now.

Offline Art of Payce

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #8 on: Sat, 21 February 2015, 23:35:53 »
I'd say hardware is, at most, 20% of the speed equation. The rest is technique and literacy. Consider these questions, assuming you're not at risk for RSI or other debilitating problems:

What layout do you use?
How voluminous is your vocabulary?
How quickly and accurately can you read and at what academic levels?
How quickly and accurately can you process the various modes of grammar?
How quickly and accurately can you process words, phrases, and sentences of varying length and complexity?

In addition, add to these all the questions about "What keyboard do you use?" and every sub-question related to that.

There are definitely other questions to ask, more or less specific to each of these. The thing is, there are many ways to improve the brain's pattern recognition of symbols for language learning (our alphabets, words, sentences, punctuation, everything). Practice, practice, practice, obviously, but again, it depends mostly on what kind of foundation for literacy you have. Smarter people aren't simply faster "because they're smart". They're faster because they generally process words better, in more compact, abbreviated, or well-organized forms, for example. More effective pattern recognition can open up the bottleneck to manual dexterity (eye to mind to finger). I mean, you could mash on your keyboard and as long as you weren't typing anything intelligible, you could say that you were typing at 1000 WPM in a not-yet discovered language. Absurd, but my point is, technique is a matter of function. Form follows function. (It's an emergent property of life.) Function is our literacy, form is our physical typing technique.

This leads me to my final question: What are you typing? Have you seen it before or is it completely foreign to you? Colloquial dialogue? College essays? Memoirs? Scientific literature? Speeches? Sermons? Theses?

Starting from the lower end of the spectrum, everyday language is the easiest and fastest to type because they're constantly used and loaded into our short-term memory (some kind of repetition is a recipe for long-term memory). We have many words, phrases, sentences automatically memorized in a sense and we use certain words more than others on an every day basis so typing 100 WPM of ready-to-use words isn't all that impressive if you think about it. If you're talking about transcribing scholarly, graduate-level work in record time, then we get into a strange purist territory. Unless you work for the FBI/CIA in some ultra-elite hacking department, no work is that time-sensitive. In normal life, after 80 WPM, who cares? Anyway, topic-specific language has to be learned, at least for the time that it's relevant. If you don't have this, it doesn't matter how fast you read or how literate you are. It will handicap. I guess my point is that there's still a learning curve dependent upon your intellect and/or linguistic skills. Man, this post is quite ponderous. To tell you the truth, I'm interested keyboards only because I'm fascinated with learning a second language. The PC and its peripheral keyboard has expanded the scope of human literacy. It's amazing what has happened to us since the advent of the printing press almost 1000 years ago. Technology has increased our control not only over our physical lives, but the intellect as well.

My last thought on this is that there's probably some algorithm unique to each person that balances the diminishing returns of literacy, technique, and hardware. Each one has its limit and the weakest, slowest part of the chain will bottleneck the others. I'll accept the possibility that the weakest chain could be technological (who knows, maybe we just haven't found "The Best" layout yet), but apart from mind-reading, there is no faster way to physically process human speech and functional language except through our fingers. Text-to-speech will never match typing because we think much faster than we talk (see the anatomical/linguistic limitations? You could apply this whole analysis to speech itself. The way we breathe, use our mouths, tongues, eyes even; our bodies have their own "machinery" too). Technique will adapt to the technology or vice versa. What's most challenging to improve is literacy. How educated, well-read, well-spoken, or just dedicated to language we are will be the X in this function.

In summary, my conclusion is that typing speed is ultimately the result of combining mind, body, and machine. So simple, but that's what we do.
« Last Edit: Sat, 21 February 2015, 23:45:16 by Art of Payce »


Offline Oobly

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:06:02 »
I am not a speed typing competition winner, but I do know what allows me to type fastest and with least effort.

ErgoClears and 'flat' profile keycaps, like all row 3 SA or even better, full contour SA. Angled keycaps like DCS and Cherry have raised edges which you have to lift your finger to clear when changing rows. After using SA caps for a while I found Cherry profile to be slower and require more effort to type on.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:16:33 »
I am not a speed typing competition winner, but I do know what allows me to type fastest and with least effort.

ErgoClears and 'flat' profile keycaps, like all row 3 SA or even better, full contour SA. Angled keycaps like DCS and Cherry have raised edges which you have to lift your finger to clear when changing rows. After using SA caps for a while I found Cherry profile to be slower and require more effort to type on.

Let me stop you right there....

Those things may have influenced your experience with typing..

BUT,  they are not key determinants of Ultimate speed...


Most of the things that do matter has already been covered in my speed guide..


Offline fohat.digs

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #12 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:31:16 »
I'd say hardware is, at most, 20% of the speed equation. The rest is technique and literacy.

Yes and no. Considering a car race, in which drivers and vehicles must both be at the very top of their class - to even be there in the first place, the hardware is a huge determinant.

In the neighborhood of 180 wpm, with the average word in English at just over 5 characters, you are at around 65 ms per character, which includes getting the finger to the key and activating it. So there is a dual mechanical limitation at work: the fingers and the switches, completely outside of the mental activities of determining which key needs to be pressed and ordering the fingertips around.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #13 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:45:02 »
I'd say hardware is, at most, 20% of the speed equation. The rest is technique and literacy.

Yes and no. Considering a car race, in which drivers and vehicles must both be at the very top of their class - to even be there in the first place, the hardware is a huge determinant.

In the neighborhood of 180 wpm, with the average word in English at just over 5 characters, you are at around 65 ms per character, which includes getting the finger to the key and activating it. So there is a dual mechanical limitation at work: the fingers and the switches, completely outside of the mental activities of determining which key needs to be pressed and ordering the fingertips around.


nonononono... 180 wpm  would only be a problem if we had words like wwwwooords..

we do not have such words for it to come down to the 65ms hindering speed..

Keyboards are not a limitation of speed at this point..

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #14 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 13:48:48 »
So, what IS the main limitation..

It's known as "Burst Memory"   this was covered in my speed guide, that I know ya'll never got through the Advance section..


Essentially, in order to exceed 130wpm,  all speed typers must accumulate muscle memory for much longer words....

So that there is no longer any parsing that occurs mid-word..  accu mu late   , the fastest typers will not parse that into 3 seperate chains, they will have muscle memory of that whole string..

This reduces points of failure, which increases reliability, and it also allows you to achieve optimal transition speed between those parsed letters. u-m u-l


Offline Art of Payce

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 22 February 2015, 14:39:07 »
Everybody go check out tp4tissue's guide: Compendium of Speed

It's part-guide, part-manifesto. Basically, he's the Tyler Durden of Geekhack.

Offline jacobolus

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #16 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 06:51:19 »
"As of 2005, writer Barbara Blackburn was the fastest alphanumerical English language typist in the world, according to The Guinness Book of World Records. Using the Dvorak Simplified Keyboard, she maintained 150 wpm for 50 minutes, and 170 wpm for shorter periods. Her top speed was 212 wpm."
What is the "Dvorak Simplified Keyboard" and what switches does it use?
The Dvorak Simplified Keyboard is a layout not an actual piece of hardware.
That is like telling the brand of tires on the winning race car without telling the manufacturer of the car!

She used a manual typewriter. I'm not sure precisely which brand. Perhaps Royal?

Quote from: some not-too-reliable-seeming website
In the 1930's a young Barbara Blackburn received an Inferior-minus grade in her QWERTY typing class in high school. A bit later when she was a freshman in business college the Royal Typewriter Company sent a representative to her school looking for someone to train as a demonstrator with the Dvorak layout. She decided to give it a shot and excelled. Within a few years she was up to 138 WPM and as of 2005 she was in the Guinness Book of World Records as the fastest English language typist in the world. She was typing 150 wpm sustained for 50 minutes! Imagine being able to maintain that speed for that long. She could type 170 wpm for shorter periods and was timed at a peak speed of 212 wpm. All of this with a near 100% accuracy.

This LA Times article tells the story slightly differently: http://articles.latimes.com/1985-01-10/news/vw-9288_1_typewriter-keyboard
« Last Edit: Mon, 23 February 2015, 06:59:48 by jacobolus »

Offline Oobly

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Re: World-Class Speed Typing Recommendations and Opinions
« Reply #17 on: Mon, 23 February 2015, 08:18:08 »
I am not a speed typing competition winner, but I do know what allows me to type fastest and with least effort.

ErgoClears and 'flat' profile keycaps, like all row 3 SA or even better, full contour SA. Angled keycaps like DCS and Cherry have raised edges which you have to lift your finger to clear when changing rows. After using SA caps for a while I found Cherry profile to be slower and require more effort to type on.

Let me stop you right there....

Those things may have influenced your experience with typing..

BUT,  they are not key determinants of Ultimate speed...


Most of the things that do matter has already been covered in my speed guide..

True, they help me to type more accurately, faster and with less effort, but they may not have the same effect on other's typing. As I said, I'm not a typing speed freak, though.

Also, I posted some thoughts in your guide thread. It's... surprisingly practical for a tp thread ;)   :thumb:

Typing is a lot like reading. You type in groups of letters, just like you read in groups of letters. To do so one letter at a time is slow and inefficient. I posit that the size of each typed group of letters is dependent on your proficiency / familiarity with the keyboard and the subject matter. Of course, some of us don't get past the single letter phase.... sigh... don't pick on us just 'cos we're slow.

Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.