Author Topic: Literally BEST quality and feel keyboard?+a bit of background to back this up  (Read 2874 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Nikelu

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 81
  • Don't read this!
As a Greek university student that bought a cherry mx blue razer BW nearly 2 years ago for 50 euros,I would like to find an effen amazing board to buy now. The shipping costs are pretty big for items from US 50-65$ so a board that costs 130-200 goes up too 190-260$. This is actually a lot of money and besides I am paying my rent too .So I don't think I have a second chance for a keyboard soon enough.It will probably be in another year or so.I was thinking of going with the KUL keyboards. Ducky looks solid but I hate backlighting and I like my keyboards simple not with snakes and horses and stuff.There is also the novatouch here for 165 euros which is amazing price but most people said that 45g is really light for their taste.Greece has zero mechs,only razer/cm/logitech which I don't like a lot.So I think I really am in for the KUL keyboards. About switch I would like a gaming switch,but most people say reds are really light but they are ok with orings,blacks are ok for most people,and clears are great for typing(are they ok for gaming?) .I have cherry mx blue so I think Greens are a no.

Offline saturnotaku

  • Posts: 680
  • Location: The 'burbs, IL USA
One thread asking these types of questions is fine:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=70038.0

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6533
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
trick question
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 13720
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Ergodox... last keyboard you'll need until  Ergodox 2


Background? 


Because I'm Tp4..

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
re-consider the local novatouch, you might also buy, briefly try and return it, if laws in greece are decent in this aspect

other than that, I don't think there is one single decent mechanical keyboard in the market that you can just buy and use

KUL ES-87 with blues seems like a good idea for you, as you are already used to blue switches, and people deem KUL ES-87 as a decent board, it should be risk-free for you

I eliminated KUL ES-87 myself, as cherry stabs are mushy, risky, and it's plate is potentially pingy, yet If I had to suggest a stock board to someone, KUL ES-87 would be my suggestion, as people around here seems to like/love it, I would trust that devotion

Here is a great idea, buy KUL ES-87 with blues, order some o-rings from ebay, combine the two, you will have a very decent, non-pingy keyboard with added force requirement from the o-rings

If blues are 45-50g, o-rings bump it up ~10g

---

also elite keyboards had reasonable shipping prices the last time I checked

Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline Nikelu

  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 81
  • Don't read this!
Elitekeyboards ship for 60 $ for a 2 kg package

Offline feizor

  • Posts: 690
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
re-consider the local novatouch, you might also buy, briefly try and return it, if laws in greece are decent in this aspect

other than that, I don't think there is one single decent mechanical keyboard in the market that you can just buy and use

KUL ES-87 with blues seems like a good idea for you, as you are already used to blue switches, and people deem KUL ES-87 as a decent board, it should be risk-free for you

I eliminated KUL ES-87 myself, as cherry stabs are mushy, risky, and it's plate is potentially pingy, yet If I had to suggest a stock board to someone, KUL ES-87 would be my suggestion, as people around here seems to like/love it, I would trust that devotion

Here is a great idea, buy KUL ES-87 with blues, order some o-rings from ebay, combine the two, you will have a very decent, non-pingy keyboard with added force requirement from the o-rings

If blues are 45-50g, o-rings bump it up ~10g

---

also elite keyboards had reasonable shipping prices the last time I checked



I don't think o-rings increase the actuation force of the switches but rather reduce the travel distance and  the bottom out sound.

Cherry stabs can be lubed and clipped to eliminate any mushiness. Ping can be reduced by shelf liner .

Offline animal

  • Posts: 73
  • Location: Greece
You can get a Das from e-shop.gr without shipping costs. Other than that your **** outta luck in Greece for mechs.
Real men do it with a keyboard.

Offline animal

  • Posts: 73
  • Location: Greece

I don't think o-rings increase the actuation force of the switches but rather reduce the travel distance and  the bottom out sound.

Those both, and absorb an amount impact from bottoming out which will allow longer typing sessions. And at least on blues o-rings are a life saver for blues as they absorb a great amount of sound. Before I installed them my wife was shouting "Close the door!" when I was typing. Now the door is open.
Real men do it with a keyboard.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
re-consider the local novatouch, you might also buy, briefly try and return it, if laws in greece are decent in this aspect

other than that, I don't think there is one single decent mechanical keyboard in the market that you can just buy and use

KUL ES-87 with blues seems like a good idea for you, as you are already used to blue switches, and people deem KUL ES-87 as a decent board, it should be risk-free for you

I eliminated KUL ES-87 myself, as cherry stabs are mushy, risky, and it's plate is potentially pingy, yet If I had to suggest a stock board to someone, KUL ES-87 would be my suggestion, as people around here seems to like/love it, I would trust that devotion

Here is a great idea, buy KUL ES-87 with blues, order some o-rings from ebay, combine the two, you will have a very decent, non-pingy keyboard with added force requirement from the o-rings

If blues are 45-50g, o-rings bump it up ~10g

---

also elite keyboards had reasonable shipping prices the last time I checked



I don't think o-rings increase the actuation force of the switches but rather reduce the travel distance and  the bottom out sound.

Cherry stabs can be lubed and clipped to eliminate any mushiness. Ping can be reduced by shelf liner .

obviously they can't increase the actuation force, yet they definitely increase the bottom out force, normally the bottom out completes when plastic touches plastic, yet with o-rings, there is an added force absorption from the o-ring, which adds to the bottom-out force requirement

I've tested shelf-liner-like mods, none of them works, the issue is with the plate itself, usually

Cherry stabs are also problematic with loose keycaps like signature plastics, I generally end up attaching the costar stab inserts to the keycap, yet the same isn't possible with cherry's (some double shot ones also require you to cut the insert, which is again impossible with cherry's)

On my next keycap change, I'm going to lightly glue the insert to the keycap, If I was using cherry's, I might have to find a new keycap set

I've tested a numpad set on a leopold numpad with cherry stabs, one stabilised double shot stayed uneven

Reminding you that these are all edge issues, if you're just going to buy and use a keyboard, buy and use the KUL ES-87, have fun, issues are all issues if you make them issues (I do, you don't have to :)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline fohat.digs

  • * Elevated Elder
  • Posts: 6533
  • Location: 35°55'N, 83°53'W
  • weird funny old guy
Landing pads are the way to go on blue Cherry switches, unless you have the ability to do the "jailhouse" mod, which is the best. I like O-rings on the others.

But Cherry switches are just modern plastic junk, anyway.
"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
- Marc Sumner 2025-05-30

Offline aref

  • Posts: 581
O-rings: red o-rings are half the thickness of blue o-rings, giving you a tad more key travel. Red o-rings measure ~0.2mm; blue o-rings are ~0.4mm thick. Also, reds are little softer than blues.
« Last Edit: Tue, 17 March 2015, 20:14:07 by aref »

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
Actually they are much thicker, but their advertised travel reduction is 0.2/0.4, they probably shrink down to 0.2 and 0.4 when pushed and squeezed all the way down

These are my favourite o-rings: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120pcs-Keycap-Rubber-O-Ring-Switch-Dampeners-RED-For-CHERRY-MX-Free-Shipping-/261268631414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4d2ef76

They are pretty soft and slim, softer than WASD red's, all they do is to absorb the bottom out sound

Using the oem keycaps just for these o-rings :)
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline aref

  • Posts: 581
Didn't know these existed. 0.15mm thickness is nice--I'm going to order some to have on hand.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 March 2015, 15:46:01 by aref »

Offline derezzed

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 298
Actually they are much thicker, but their advertised travel reduction is 0.2/0.4, they probably shrink down to 0.2 and 0.4 when pushed and squeezed all the way down

These are my favourite o-rings: http://www.ebay.com/itm/120pcs-Keycap-Rubber-O-Ring-Switch-Dampeners-RED-For-CHERRY-MX-Free-Shipping-/261268631414?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd4d2ef76

They are pretty soft and slim, softer than WASD red's, all they do is to absorb the bottom out sound

Using the oem keycaps just for these o-rings :)

How durable are they?  I shied away from buying these last week because I wasn't sure how long they would last.

Offline KHAANNN

  • Posts: 1660
How durable are they?  I shied away from buying these last week because I wasn't sure how long they would last.

They seem very slightly slimmer than the red o-rings of WASD, they are definitely much softer than both, I think the blue's are too thick for clicky keyboards as they prevent the click-action sometimes

As far as the durability goes, I haven't had any kind of issues with them yet, I can't vouch for them with my limited time with them

Their main pro for me is the softness, green switches are already hard enough, these o-rings provided a nice bottoming out experience for me, I got the board originally with the blue o-rings, the switches seemed too hard with those o-rings

Since they are soft, they might be more susceptible to damage, they might rupture in a year with heavy usage, but this is speculation

I also got the clear o-rings from the same seller, for some reason the clear ones didn't appeal to me much, although they seem identical, I liked the red ones more, didn't even compare them after testing the red's
Endgame | 1.25 Cmd for GMK Sets Please | Or Just 1.25 Blanks Like The Good Old Days

Offline Oobly

  • * Esteemed Elder
  • Posts: 3929
  • Location: Finland
I think a KUL ES-87 with Clears will suit you very well. Clears are great for both typing and gaming. They're the most tactile MX switch. The bump can be used as a reference for where the actuation point is, which helps for rapid double-taps or "hovering" for FPS gaming.

About stabilisers: Cherry stabs can be clipped to take away the "mushy" bottom out. This is not an issue if you use orings, though, since they act at a similar point. They're better for changing keycaps, less susceptible to rattle and don't have clearance issues with thick caps like Costar style do.

KHAANNN's comment about "loose" Signature Plastics caps... No idea where that comes from since all my SP caps are tight on the stems. Also, cutting inserts? WTF? All caps work with Cherry stabs with no mods needed, full stop.

About orings: Keycaps do not touch the casings on bottom out. Bottom out happens when the slider hits the bottom casing (in the case of the clicky switches it's the pin that hits, in the case of tactile and linear it's the wider part of the slider). Orings need to be chosen dependent on the keycap profile and personal taste. The keycap profile will determine how much space there is between the bottom of the cap and the top of the switch case at the bottom out point. THIS IS DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT PROFILES, and even "OEM" profile can have a few different gaps since they're made by different manufacturers. Some profiles (like sculptured SA) even have different distances from one row to another which requires different orings per row to maintain a consistent feel. Most orings used for keyboards are made of very durable materials which will last for many years, you shouldn't be concerned about longevity, except for really long term (10 years or more I'd guess).

Orings are meant to soften out the shock of bottoming out hard plastic to hard plastic. They do not change the bottom out force, except by possibly reducing the travel very slightly and thus bottoming out at a slightly higher point in the spring compression, but this is negligable. Of course, if you really try to hit hard plastic by compressing the oring to this point, you could argue that that's a massive increase in force, but you should instead consider the point of oring contact to be "bottoming out". With some orings it's not even possible to make the plastic make contact.

Landing pads are a softer material than orings and usually a bit thicker. They give a more progressive "soft landing" which feels a little different to orings.

If you're adventurous, you can attempt the "trampoline mod". This involves inserting a piece of soft material into the tube inside the switch to act against the slider pin when approaching bottom out. You can tailor the mod for different feel and travel reduction by changing the shape and material used. IMSTO sells some nice little silicone balls which work well for this and give a consistent feel, quite similar to orings. The biggest advantage of this mod is that it works consistently with any keycap.

About ping: Ping can be cured easily enough and doesn't bother most people. It's most prevalent on strong spring clicky switches with no orings or other damping method, least on light spring linears with orings. Usually it's caused by a spring resonating, due to either the click mechanism, bottoming out or the spring twisting when compressed, catching and then releasing at either the bottom casing or slider end. Lubing prevents this "catching" and can dampen the resonance, too, effectively silencing the spring.

Plate resonance is not the same as ping, but is often mistaken for it. This can be cured by a few methods, inclusing adding drawer liner as a damping material or rubber pieces to the plate to dampen the resonance. It can cause spring resonance, though, so it may be hard to diagnose which you have, or what measure of both.
Buying more keycaps,
it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline jamster

  • Posts: 1091
  • Location: Asia
As someone else pointed out in one of your other threads asking pretty much the same question:

The only way you can find the perfect board for you is by trying them. Everyone has their own preferences and dislikes, and from what you've said here and in other threads, there's no way for other people to predict yours. All we can do is project our own preferences onto you, and probably get it wrong.

I really like this forum, but I think it's got a weird disease in that it just encourages people to keep buying and then ditching (or collecting) keyboards, all on the eternal quest for the perfect keyboard. The only way to skip all the boards in between is really by trying a board in real life, and not typing on someone's idea of a board on the internet. As an example of differing opinions, I personally found the KUL with Clears to be bloody terrible, and they were not at all what I expected having read copious text on Clear switches.

If you can't get your hands on a mechanical board to test and money is a concern, just wait. It's not like your current board is going to kill you. And if you desperately need the perfect board, just bite the bullet and buy something... and be prepared to keep doing it over and over again for a while.

Personally, the costs that you mention for getting a board to Greece I think are insane. Especially if you're a student with limited income.

And there is no such thing as a gaming switch. It's a marketing gimmick invented to sell overpriced keyboards (Razers) to noobs.
« Last Edit: Wed, 18 March 2015, 07:44:02 by jamster »