Hey fellow maniacs,
[It] just bears to reason that if a switch actuates halfway down (as most do), any extra time and effort you spend pressing it past that point is wasted. No matter how fast we type, we press one key at a time. The longer we spend pressing one, the longer it takes to get to the next one.
Sounds good in theory..that isn't reality...the problem is your fingers are slower in attempting to not bottom out...
Only if you’re making an
effort not to bottom out. But that’s not what I’m talking about.—that's just working too hard in a different way. I’m talking about developing a hand-level feel for the KB’s actuation, perceiving it as a single, typeable-on surface.
I know it sounds spacey. You just have to experience it. I doubt I would have myself, if I hadn’t experienced it playing classical piano. The great composer/pianist Frederick Chopin started a whole school of technique based on the whole-body approach, and it changed piano playing forever. (You can’t even play most of his music
unless you play it that way!)
I'll give you one brief practical example of what I'm talking about. When new kids come to me for piano lessons, my first job is to get them to stop thinking about playing notes and start
hearing music. I ask them to put one hand on the keyboard and play five notes, back and forth, as fast as they can. They inevitably do this using their fingers, which not only limits their speed but produces a choppy, unnatural sound. Then I put
my hand on the keyboard and play the five notes back and forth by simply rotating my wrist, using my hand as a single unit, letting my fingers fall where they need to rather than trying to control them. When you do that, there's literally no speed limit. (That is, you can play the notes faster that people can hear them, so there'd be no point to playing any faster.) You should see the lightbulbs going off over these kids' heads—playing suddenly becomes fun, more like dancing than work. I think typing can be that way too.
fastest typers out there? They all bottom out...
Really? I’m surprised to hear that. It seems to defy physics. Why expend more time and energy than necessary to achieve the same thing? I’m willing to be wrong, though. Maybe brute force has a role too. Maybe the violence intimidates your typing opponents, like chessmasters slamming down chess pieces? :?)
The "wasted" effort [you're] referring to doesn't impact your speed..it never has..you're fingers are already moving to the next key...
It depends what you mean. Sure, we're already
thinking about the keypresses to come; and if your other hand has the next keypress, it starts moving toward it while the first hand is still releasing its key. But unless you type much differently than I do, I don't think we ever actually have more than one key down at a time—nor can we move toward the next key, with the same hand, while we're pressing the current one.
That's where the "wasted time" comes in:
• The farther you press a key beyond actuation, the more time you're spending on that key before you release it and head for the next one (with that hand).
• When you press a key harder than necessary, your hand must reverse that much more momentum in that direction before it can start moving in a new direction.
• The more you focus on individual keys (usually associated with pressing them harder and longer than necessary), the less of a sense of the whole keyboard you have, and the less of a sense of the text you're typing, rather than just its letters.
These are just principles I've observed myself. Everyone's different.
I'm not saying you can't lightly bottom out or you have to bottom out on every stroke..but not bottom out at all?
In case it’s not clear, I’m not suggesting anyone
worry about bottoming out. Worrying about anything is counterproductive; it activates the ego and inhibits you from performing at your best, from an unconscious level.
As soon as we start worrying or even thinking about "controlling" any physical activity, our performance drops. Athletes call it "choking"—they suddenly start trying to control their movements instead of getting out of their own way and trusting the fine body memory they've developed in long hours of training.
The fact is—unless some of us are physiology students—we don't even know
how many muscles are in our arms and hands. How could we possibly
control them with the remarkable coordination that enables us to do something like typing? It's an illusion.
I’m just suggesting that by developing a sense of the keys’ “sweet spots” between actuation and bottom, and typing more from your arms and hands than your fingers, you can ride in that zone much more easily than you think. Because you don't
have to think—you just type as efficiently and comfortably as possible.
Now I type on blacks... and I’ve learned to press each key only a bit past its actuation point. THAT is how you can go really fast and feel the most comfortable.
I'm not saying it is impossible..I'm sure with some keys they offer just the right amount of resistance for someone to type on them with very very minimal bottoming out and for them to be hitting it with optimal speed....but given the variability of spring weight plus finger strength, distance, etc, it would be difficult to achieve...
It’s amazing what we can do once we believe we can. Touch typing is awesome, but it's pretty straightforward compared to something like playing a musical instrument, or even riding a bike. Considering we’re capable of things as subtly coordinated as those, I have no problem believing that most people can learn to type by "riding" between actuation and bottoming, if they want to.
Outside of that, I can see people typing with minimal bottoming out...or lightly bottoming out..even with Topre...
Again, while I think stiffer switches make it easier, I think it’s possible to type this way on
any switch. I could see the non-bottoming school of typing as a kind of physical discipline, where people challenged themselves on progressively lighter and lighter switches. You know, martial-arts kind of thing, another way of refining one’s touch and reflexes to an elite degree. But that’s not something most of us will ever feel compelled to do (including me!).
I wouldn't call DVORAK cheating, obviously you spent time to learn a much better layout and for that you should get the benefit...
Yeah, I was just being modest. Dvorak rocks!
...but start coming on here with videos of 120+WPM and no bottoming out and show people it is possible...
I don’t know any competitive typers; I’m completely ignorant about that world. I just know what works for me, and for a few other people I've known through the years. We could get some elite typists in here and ask them to try to break down the mechanics of their typing for us—but it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't know what to say, other than "I just try to go fast!" As with many things, the less you think about it, the better you can be.
This is a really interesting thread. I've tried reds, browns, tactile greys, and ended with lightly lubed ergo clears because to me they have a glorious texture when I push them down...
Woo, I’m actually getting a bit excited here. With the correct, properly lubricated setup, one could probably substitute typing for sex. After the initial investment, think of the money you’d save on clubs and stuff!
This sounds good. The conclusion I've reached is that the tactility is important and that I don't mind bottoming out...
That’s the beauty of typing, and ergonomics in general, isn’t it? Everybody’s different. The stuff I’ve jabbered about here is just my take, based on my experience. One person’s “perfect” setup will be completely different from another’s. (Of course I
really think each of us should have one of every possible KB, which would render the issue meaningless as we’d be too busy enjoying all of our goodies.)
In any case, it’s great having a chance to back-and-forth about it with you guys. Despite our differing opinions, you’re tremendously important to me. Who else could possibly understand my passion for this stuff? My family? Hah! Maybe some of you find yourselves in this position. :?)
Considering this bottoming out business, doesn't using o-rings just fix that? I use o-rings and I bottom out just below the actuation so essentially I'm not pressing down the key too far down for it to be inefficient. It's a win-win for me since I don't like the clack. I use 1.2mm o-rings with cherry caps and it's perfect.
O-rings don't prevent you from bottoming out. They just change what you bottom out on, and make it happen sooner. They don’t change how you press keys, which I think is more relevant to speed and comfort. I’ve tried o-rings, and had high hopes for them, but I found them oddly unsatisfying. I think keys are designed with certain travels and tension slopes for a reason, and when you change that, you undo some pretty deliberate engineering. YMMV.
With green's for example, I hated the clacks, because the click was like a thunderstorm, which was beautiful on it's own...
I don’t think I’ve read such a colourful
and amusingly contradictory sentence in quite a while. :?)
However the clear clack sounds more like a thock, now that I've tried clears on an actual board, I really really really enjoy the clear's bottom out sounds... Since the spring is a strong one, it's not an extreme clack, but rather a very gentle and satisfying thock, at this point, suppressing that sound seems like murder
This is great—there
is a musical angle to typing. :?)
Indeed, the sounds of mechanical keyboards are awesome. If anyone wants to bottom out because they love how it sounds, I won't argue with them for a moment. There's a lot more to life than trying to be some kind of flippin' Typing Jedi Master.
