What I don't get about MX Blues

[ander]

Okay, people like Cherry MX Blues because they give you a tactile "bump" on actuation and they make noise when you bottom out.

The bump I get. It's to let you know you've actuated the switch and typed something. Presumably this is so you know you don't have to press the key any farther. Otherwise, the bottoming-out "click" would tell you the same thing, just later and with more effort.

So why the click and the bump? Isn't that like wearing a belt and suspenders?

Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like a cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here in the 21st century? Why?

As you can see, I have many questions. About MX Blues.

[katushkin]

Why do people have noise feedback on their phones when they type? Or haptic feedback?

It's personal preference. I also think it's something to do with the old BS boards which were very clicky. I think it was part of their initial appeal.

I dunno.

[smknjoe]

The click has nothing to do with bottoming out. It's the slider hitting the stem at ~ the time of actuation that creates the click and some additional haptic feedback.

[JPG]

I don't use cherry anymore (personnal preference), but I use the modelf F daily and the sound is music to my ears now. It just feels right and when I type the sound seems natural.


You might not like it, that's why there's so many different switches around. But to some, the click is nice. Also, while it's possible to have some switches with or without the sound, for others (like BS) it's not an option because of the way the switch it built. If it was possible to have silent BD switches, they would probably exist.

[tp4tissue]

harharharhar


It's a preference issue..


Some people type (trained) to the sound..  the Click is their "hit confirm"


Some people type by touch sensation.. "vibration" from either bottom out, or the force hump


Usually, the faster and more integrated the typer, the less he relies on any sensation.. 

It becomes second nature, a close integration between mind and circuit.

[Touch_It]

Why?  I like them simply because I like hearing the added noise.  Also I think  that subconsciously and somewhat consciously it helps me know when I have activated.  But I flat out enjoy noisy keyboards.

I should note that I use a model m and f as my daily drivers.  They have a special place in my heart.

[JinDesu]

Some people don't notice the bumps.

[jamster]

Sigh. Are these serious questions? A return to your attention-seeking, trolling posts?

I don't like clicky MX switches, but even I can see reasons why people like them.

[Air tree]

Overall I'm not a huge fan of clicky switches. White alps are not amazing for me, maybe Blue alps are my next step in trying switches? Cherry mx blues annoy the living hell out of me.

[vvp]

I would say some people like Cherry MX blues not because of sound but because of hysteresis.
Notice that the actuation point is at about 2.5 mm but release point is at about 1.5 mm.
http://i.stack.imgur.com/GzswL.png
The result is that it is harder to (accidentally) double-tap this switch (you need to release it at least 1 mm back before you can double tap). This hysteresis is achieved by a moving slider on the stem. The click sound is only a possibly unwanted side effect of the slider hitting the stem.

[FrostyToast]

Having the bump and the click makes it feel more like I am typing on a machine.
Plus, just having the click on linear would be unsettling as I would expect there to be that bump to accompany it. It's the worst feeling when your mind expects something to happen and it just doesn't happen.

[ander]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all your input on something I've always wondered about.

The click has nothing to do with bottoming out. It's the slider hitting the stem at ~ the time of actuation that creates the click and some additional haptic feedback.

So then there's actually three things going on—bump, click, bottom out. Wow, what could you possibly add to that? Celebrity impressions?  :?)

I don't use cherry anymore (personnal preference), but I use the modelf F daily and the sound is music to my ears now. It just feels right and when I type the sound seems natural... You might not like it, that's why there's so many different switches around. But to some, the click is nice.

Don't get me wrong—I'm a big MK fan, and in almost all cases, MKs mean noise. I just wondered why it was necessary to add extra noise.

Why?  I like them simply because I like hearing the added noise.  Also I think  that subconsciously and somewhat consciously it helps me know when I have activated.  But I flat out enjoy noisy keyboards.

Okay then! I knew there had to be at least some people who felt that way. If you like something, you like it—fair enough!

Sigh. Are these serious questions? A return to your attention-seeking, trolling posts?

Nah, I was genuinely curious, and this seemed the place to ask. (I've never noticed any hesitancy to discuss KBs here yet.)

As for the "trolling" thing, well, I'm a creative artist, so I'm afraid I'm never going to come off as left-brain as some of the excellent, more technically based folks here. Yes, I've posted here a few times when I probably shouldn't have, usually due to excess caffeine or alcohol consumption (or both, yikes). But I think I've managed to act sufficiently humiliated after. If there's ever any question, feel free to post some of those shocked-looking photos with the big white captions—you know, that thing people do in forums? The shocked-photo thing? It creates a very humorous effect, although some of the really technical guys might not get it. Okay, I'm glad we got all that straightened out.

Having the bump and the click makes it feel more like I am typing on a machine.

I absolutely get that! For those of us who grew up watching sci-fi movies and TV shows with huge unlikely computers in them, it makes even more sense. We're into mechanical stuff and computing. And there's the retro thing too. This is all starting to fall into place.

Plus, just having the click on linear would be unsettling as I would expect there to be that bump to accompany it. It's the worst feeling when your mind expects something to happen and it just doesn't happen.

Yes, you'd think the smoother the switch, the better you could type, because there'd be less distraction. But what I'm getting from you guys is, cool sounds can motivate you type because it's more fun. Totally legit!

Okay, you've won me over. See, that wasn't so tough. And if anyone else comes along who doesn't get blues either, you can just point them here and save a lot of time.

Unfortunately I'll have to acquire a board with blues now, and my wife has quite seriously announced that she'll divorce me if any more KBs turn up here—so if anyone has a couch I can sleep on for a while, I'll appreciate it.

[Jokrik]

I don't get linear switches, and I only use clicky switches

Hmppphhhhh

[tbc]

um.

i don't bottom out?

[MrRooks]

Don't get me wrong—I'm a big MK fan, and in almost all cases, MKs mean noise. I just wondered why it was necessary to add extra noise.

The same reason people do anything, personal preference. Why do people put extra loud exhaust on their car? They like it. I'm personally not a fan of super loud keys(or car exhausts). I use lubed, o-ringed browns on a solid plate. It barely makes any noise at all, and the noise it does make is soft and low, nothing obnoxious. But I like the tactile feedback of browns, I've been using browns for many years. I recently picked up a Ducky board with blues in it and couldn't stand the noise, it didn't last 10 minutes on my desk.

[Findecanor]

I agree with the first post. That is why I use dampeners with blues.

The click has nothing to do with bottoming out. It's the slider hitting the stem at ~ the time of actuation that creates the click and some additional haptic feedback.

The term is "tactile feedback". "Haptic feedback" is when there is some kind of actuator, solenoid or motor or similar that provides force-feedback under control by a circuit.

BTW, the word "Taptic" is simply a trademark owned by a subsidiary of Apple.

[omen7288]

The click has nothing to do with bottoming out. It's the slider hitting the stem at ~ the time of actuation that creates the click and some additional haptic feedback.

+1. I have browns and blues. To me they feel VERY different. I like the blues so much more because of how they feel. The sound is a side effect which I kind of like/don't mind. It's quieter lubed. Has nothing to do with bottoming out (I have all my keys with o rings etc.)

[Rule16]

Having the bump and the click makes it feel more like I am typing on a machine.
Plus, just having the click on linear would be unsettling as I would expect there to be that bump to accompany it. It's the worst feeling when your mind expects something to happen and it just doesn't happen.

Now you understand why I hate blues, they feel linear to me )

[Huxley2500]

If it don't click it isn't worth pressing.

Might as well get a rubber dome like a HHKB.

[Rule16]

If it don't click it isn't worth pressing.

Might as well get a rubber dome like a HHKB.

Something tells me you've never actually tried Topre.

[tbc]

If it don't click it isn't worth pressing.

Might as well get a rubber dome like a HHKB.

Something tells me you've never actually tried Topre.

topre doesn't click like an mx blue.  period.

topre thocks.  completely different pitches.

yes, have had topre.

[fohat.digs]

MX blues are the most annoying switches that I have ever used. The sound is just all wrong to my ears.

They were greatly improved, in my opinion, with landing pads, the only switch I like them on.

"Jailhouse" blues are great, however, if you are willing to invest the work. Someday I plan to hire somebody to do a set of "jailhouse" greens for me (probably with thin soft O-rings), but that is way down my list, and well below ergo clears.

And I don't even like Cherry switches.

[Rule16]

If it don't click it isn't worth pressing.

Might as well get a rubber dome like a HHKB.

Something tells me you've never actually tried Topre.

topre doesn't click like an mx blue.  period.

topre thocks.  completely different pitches.

yes, have had topre.

Not what I meant at all of course they aren't clicky, I was talking about the condescending manner he used to talk about Topre.

[Eszett]

>> Okay, people like Cherry MX Blues because they give you a tactile "bump" on actuation
>> and they make noise when you bottom out.
As said the click does not come from bottoming out. The bottoming out sound comes additionally.

>> The bump I get. It's to let you know you've actuated the switch and typed something.
>> Presumably this is so you know you don't have to press the key any farther. Otherwise,
>> the bottoming-out "click" would tell you the same thing, just later and with more effort.
>> So why the click and the bump? Isn't that like wearing a belt and suspenders?
Yes, it is like wearing a belt and suspenders. But people like the rough bump. There are Cherry switches without click sound but they don't have the rough bump (MX brown). So people take MX blues mainly because of the rough bump, not because of the additional click sound - at least that is my guess...

>> Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background
>> app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like
>> cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice >> from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here >> in the 21st century? Why?
You are right. The click sound is not very appealing, there could be better sounds. However, a sound coming from the PC has delay, and delay is no good. Additionally it doesnt come from the keyboard, which is irritating too. Naturally, a sound should come from the spot where the action takes place.

>> So then there's actually three things going on—bump, click, bottom out. Wow, what could >> you possibly add to that? Celebrity impressions?
There are six things going on
...
4) the sound, which comes from the keys, when you wiggle with your finger on them, even without pressing the keys down. This chatter is pretty loud!
5) the reset sound, when the keys moves upward again.
6) the click sound from the leaf, which is pretty weak and predominated by the click sound of the white slider, so I just mention it here for the sake of completeness.

[paradox]

I'll tell you what's wrong with having some kind speaker playing back feedback sounds for you.  There is a big difference between some artificial sound coming from the speakers and literally having that sound at your fingertips.

Think of it this way.  If you were an old school car guy would someone be able to sell you on a silent electric engine if it has a speaker in it that imitated the sound of a real car?

And as many have pointed out already, the click does not come from bottoming out.  It clicks already when you bump/actuate.

[smknjoe]

I agree with the first post. That is why I use dampeners with blues.

The click has nothing to do with bottoming out. It's the slider hitting the stem at ~ the time of actuation that creates the click and some additional haptic feedback.

The term is "tactile feedback". "Haptic feedback" is when there is some kind of actuator, solenoid or motor or similar that provides force-feedback under control by a circuit.

BTW, the word "Taptic" is simply a trademark owned by a subsidiary of Apple.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haptic

[LouisHjelmslev]

Personally I like the sound.
Heck if I could, I'd be using a pen with sound feedback... the magic pen from Picture Page? I'd be on that in an instant!

[tbc]

Personally I like the sound.
Heck if I could, I'd be using a pen with sound feedback... the magic pen from Picture Page? I'd be on that in an instant!

me toooooo

[dante]

MX Blues are like Unicorns - only certain combinations of keyboards / batches of the switch magically feel good [to me.]

Most of the time they feel damn mushy; but occasionally the stars align and they feel alright..

[fuzzybaffy]

I'm confused - I've always thought the clicking noise was the result of the tactile bump. I'm not sure you can really separate the two - you can't have the tactile bump without the click. It's just like any two objects that you smack together; you take nearly any two solid objects and smack them together, and they'll make a noise.

[Blaise170]

I like the feeling from the switch actuating. If Browns clicked I still wouldn't like them, because I don't like the tactility of Browns. Just my personal preference.

[tbc]

MX Blues are like Unicorns - only certain combinations of keyboards / batches of the switch magically feel good [to me.]

Most of the time they feel damn mushy; but occasionally the stars align and they feel alright..

imo blues are their 'bluest' in the qf tk (out of the boards i've tried).

seems to me that thin plastic works best

[smknjoe]

I'm confused - I've always thought the clicking noise was the result of the tactile bump. I'm not sure you can really separate the two - you can't have the tactile bump without the click. It's just like any two objects that you smack together; you take nearly any two solid objects and smack them together, and they'll make a noise.

The "tactile" bump has nothing to do with the noise...just like with browns and clears. You get the click from the the slider smacking against the stem as you describe. You can also get noise from "bottoming out", but that is true of any key switch.

[smknjoe]

...there is no "smacking" together of parts with the bumps. It's all a linear motion (just like other linear switches - reds/blacks)  with the same parts being involved in that motion throughout. The bumps really just add some variation in resistance as opposed to no variation at all (reds/blacks) other than spring tension which is apparent in all MX switches. Blues and Greens have additional "sliders" which move and "smack" against the stem that make a noise and cause some haptic feedback.

[shut up]

Agreed that it's more of a personal preference than anything. I do find the return a little bit strange if you're pressing them slowly though.

[False_Dmitry_II]

...there is no "smacking" together of parts with the bumps. It's all a linear motion (just like other linear switches - reds/blacks)  with the same parts being involved in that motion throughout. The bumps really just add some variation in resistance as opposed to no variation at all (reds/blacks) other than spring tension which is apparent in all MX switches. Blues and Greens have additional "sliders" which move and "smack" against the stem that make a noise and cause some haptic feedback.

This is why Matias simply calls all Cherry switches linear. I agree, and prefer actually tactile switches.

Same reason why he says the best cherry is red, is because it isn't trying to hide its innate linearity. The best part is that Space Invaders outdo blues in terms of tactility and sounds, and linear Space Invaders are better than linear cherry.

[fuzzybaffy]

I'm confused - I've always thought the clicking noise was the result of the tactile bump. I'm not sure you can really separate the two - you can't have the tactile bump without the click. It's just like any two objects that you smack together; you take nearly any two solid objects and smack them together, and they'll make a noise.

The "tactile" bump has nothing to do with the noise...just like with browns and clears. You get the click from the the slider smacking against the stem as you describe. You can also get noise from "bottoming out", but that is true of any key switch.

So you're saying the actual tactile "click" is coming from a different source than the sound of the "click"? They are two distinct actions? And by "click", I'm not talking about the sound of the bottoming out, because all switches will make a sound while bottoming out...

[Eszett]

>> The "tactile" bump has nothing to do with the noise...
A tactile bump has alot to do with click noise. Both, the bump and the noise are distinct features but the click noise requires a tactile bump. Ever saw a linear switch with click noise? I would say it like this:
I) Cherry MX switches with tactile bump have an additional click noise, if there is a tiny white slider which can move on the main slider.
II) Cherry MX switches with tactile bump have no additional click noise, if there is no tiny white slider
III) Cherry MX switches without tactile bump have no click noise.
The secret is: you'll never understand how switches work, just from reading text (posts on GH). Instead, you have to dismantle the switches and see for yourself. This is the only way.

[fuzzybaffy]

I've owned a board with MX Blues before. All I know is that there is a "click" when you pass through the tactile bump. It's not a "click" on the bottom out - the bottom out is a regular "clack" as with any other switch.

[henz]

i love the clicks

[smknjoe]

I'm confused - I've always thought the clicking noise was the result of the tactile bump. I'm not sure you can really separate the two - you can't have the tactile bump without the click. It's just like any two objects that you smack together; you take nearly any two solid objects and smack them together, and they'll make a noise.

The "tactile" bump has nothing to do with the noise...just like with browns and clears. You get the click from the the slider smacking against the stem as you describe. You can also get noise from "bottoming out", but that is true of any key switch.

So you're saying the actual tactile "click" is coming from a different source than the sound of the "click"? They are two distinct actions? And by "click", I'm not talking about the sound of the bottoming out, because all switches will make a sound while bottoming out...

The click on blues and greens does not come from the bump on the stem it comes from the "slider" which other MX switches don't have. Browns, reds, blacks, and clears all do not click like blues and greens. That's why.

[davkol]

Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like a cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here in the 21st century? Why?

I wonder why almost nobody has replied to this.

Yes, every (hi-end) keyboard should come with a built-in buzzer, if you ask me. Clicky switches are obsolete.

Ever saw a linear switch with click noise?

Of course. Apart from the buzzer mentioned above, some Asian Cherry-clone switches have a leaf, that makes a click/ping sound on release, but doesn't cause any noticeable tactile feedback.

I'm confused - I've always thought the clicking noise was the result of the tactile bump. I'm not sure you can really separate the two - you can't have the tactile bump without the click. It's just like any two objects that you smack together; you take nearly any two solid objects and smack them together, and they'll make a noise.

The "tactile" bump has nothing to do with the noise...just like with browns and clears. You get the click from the the slider smacking against the stem as you describe. You can also get noise from "bottoming out", but that is true of any key switch.

Both browns and clears quietly click. So do some tactile SKCM Alps to my surprise.

[smknjoe]

Sure, if you want to be hyperbolic...then, ALL keys witches click..even laser/projection keyboards that operate on a hard surface like your desk...because when you touch the desk with your finger tips there is a slight noise. Shoes are clicky too because they make noise when you walk. Books are clicky because they make a noise when you turn the page...

Get real.

Blues (and greens) have a very deliberate click that fuzzybaffy was referring to.

[eternalmetal]

Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like a cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here in the 21st century? Why?

I wonder why almost nobody has replied to this.

Yes, every (hi-end) keyboard should come with a built-in buzzer, if you ask me. Clicky switches are obsolete.

Seriously?  I feel that emulating the sound of an acoustic click in any way feels cheap and tacky.  I always hated it with mice, and I cant imagine being for enabling something like this on every keyboard click.  I actually spent the majority of my keyboarding life looking for silent keyboards (I always hated the buckling spring clack noise), and therefore I have invested tons of typing time on really crappy rubber dome keyboards.  Now that ive found the mx blues, ive fallen in love with the click sound (I installed o-ring dampeners to minimize the bottoming out noise though).  Like was said before, making digital feedback noises is akin to having an electric car equipped with engine noise.  What a disgusting way to type.

[False_Dmitry_II]

Indeed.

Or a car that plays engine noise through its speakers because it is too sound insulated to hear it.

[Blaise170]

Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like a cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here in the 21st century? Why?

I wonder why almost nobody has replied to this.

Yes, every (hi-end) keyboard should come with a built-in buzzer, if you ask me. Clicky switches are obsolete.

Seriously?  I feel that emulating the sound of an acoustic click in any way feels cheap and tacky.  I always hated it with mice, and I cant imagine being for enabling something like this on every keyboard click.  I actually spent the majority of my keyboarding life looking for silent keyboards (I always hated the buckling spring clack noise), and therefore I have invested tons of typing time on really crappy rubber dome keyboards.  Now that ive found the mx blues, ive fallen in love with the click sound (I installed o-ring dampeners to minimize the bottoming out noise though).  Like was said before, making digital feedback noises is akin to having an electric car equipped with engine noise.  What a disgusting way to type.

Why not both?  )

[davkol]

Also, why lock yourself in to a particular typing sound? You can run a free little background app, on any platform, that makes any typing sound you want. Your PC can click, or moo like a cow, or anything else. This also gives you the option of no typing sound, which is nice from time to time. But using switches with built-in, unchangeable acoustic sounds, here in the 21st century? Why?

I wonder why almost nobody has replied to this.

Yes, every (hi-end) keyboard should come with a built-in buzzer, if you ask me. Clicky switches are obsolete.

Seriously?  I feel that emulating the sound of an acoustic click in any way feels cheap and tacky.  I always hated it with mice, and I cant imagine being for enabling something like this on every keyboard click.

Sooo… maybe actually try a keyboard with a buzzer instead of feeling and (not) imagining?

The nice thing about the buzzer is that it's consistent, unlike clicky Cherry switches.

Like was said before, making digital feedback noises is akin to having an electric car equipped with engine noise.

Nonsense. Buzzer can click exactly on actuation (unlike most clicky switches), thus provide more precise feedback; the only information is whether the switch was pressed/actuated, or not in case of computer keyboards.

The sound of an internal-combustion car engine on the other hand provides actually very useful information, if you change gears manually. It'd make sense to emulate it if and only if the electric car used the same kind of manual transmission.

[vvp]

The nice thing about the buzzer is that it's consistent, unlike clicky Cherry switches.

That sounds like the slider on the switch stem is not moving freely. It can happen when

• the mounting plate slot is too small (it squezes the switch housing) - make the slot a bit bigger
• the switch is faulty - take it apart and file away the material which prohigits the free movment of the slider

[unipsykal]

One reason I hate blues is that when I am trying to get some sleep and someone else is typing on them, it slowly wakens me in the most annoying manner. Having that sound permeate a blissful void or slowly work its way into a dream gets me all tired when I wake up. Blacks are now officially the only switch type allowed in the bedroom. On the other hand, I do appreciate the tactile response it gives. I think the clicking sound is just a psychological preference for some people and I personally don't care for it. I still like browns for the tactile bump but I think heavier springs might feel better with my heavy fingers.

[Oobly]

....
Both browns and clears quietly click. ....

Um... no, they don't (pressing my Browns and Clears with my ear practically touching the board). Care to provide a sound sample of this "quiet click"?