So I tried the new MacBook (2015) keyboard..

[mdmcaf]

...and it was everything I feared it would be.

It felt like I was banging my fingers against the top case. If I had to type for any appreciable period of time I think my fingers would seize up. A lighter touch didn't help much because the actuation force of the keys was so high. All in all a very fatiguing keyboard.

I really hope Apple doesn't adopt them on the rest of their laptops. Or, if they do, I hope they switch back (or to something better) by the time I need to buy a new laptop.

[dante]

Resale values of 2014 and older MacBooks just went up

[rm-rf]

or you could just remove all the keys from the macbook, because well.. its aluminum..
and looks exactly like one of the keyboard plates we are all trying to get.
just throw some spacing in there and install mx / alps/ or whatever switches,
wire it up, and extend the hinges on the lcd screen so it wouldn't get banged up by the keys.
sure it would look like frankenstein but who cares. it would be a joy to type on.

[mdmcaf]

or you could just remove all the keys from the macbook, because well.. its aluminum..
and looks exactly like one of the keyboard plates we are all trying to get.
just throw some spacing in there and install mx / alps/ or whatever switches,
wire it up, and extend the hinges on the lcd screen so it wouldn't get banged up by the keys.
sure it would look like frankenstein but who cares. it would be a joy to type on.

I think it'd be much easier to just take the logic board out of the mac and stick it in a new case with a good keyboard. The logic board is seriously tiny.

The alternatives is to hope for Lenovo to buy out Apple or Apple to buy out Lenovo (far more likely in this most unlikeliest of unlikely scenarios) and for MacBook/Air/Pros with ThinkPad keyboards to become a thing. Preferably the old style ThinkPad keyboard.

[Glod]

This is the new thin fan-less macbooks you are talking about right?

I know many here are ignoring this but given how much "effect" apple has on the industry this ****ty keyboard could signal the end of tactile keyboards in the future packaged with systems (desktop and laptops).

They are pretty much saying they don't care about real touch typists who type 60+wpm and need tactility. desktops will soon follow.

20 years from now there will be very few touch typists left, very few millennials i know are touch typists and teens these days are not taught how to type. people buy backlit keyboards so they can hunt and peck. The end of tactile is soon.

im sooo negative.....

[tp4tissue]

It's inconceivable that the amount of touch typists would GO DOWN, given the RISE in computer use..

[Sygaldry]

I already hate the keyboard on my rMBP Pro (part of the reason I dove head first into the mech community). If the new Macbook 2015 keyboard is even worse than that then I'm absolutely certain that a ThinkPad will be my next keyboard (probably a couple years out since I like to keep my computers for 4 years+)

[tp4tissue]

I already hate the keyboard on my rMBP Pro (part of the reason I dove head first into the mech community). If the new Macbook 2015 keyboard is even worse than that then I'm absolutely certain that a ThinkPad will be my next keyboard (probably a couple years out since I like to keep my computers for 4 years+)

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

But I tried the Macbook 12 at the store,   the keyboard IMHO is fine..


It's nothing like the smoothness of non bottom out actuation..  but overall I can "deal" with the feel..

[Altis]

I've tried it a few times now. At first, I thought it wasn't that bad. Then I thought it was actually kind of fun to type on.

Then I used it more extensively and found that I really disliked it quite a bit. In fact, I used to really like Apple keyboards (such as the aluminum Bluetooth one) but even the current, thinner MacBook Pros don't have very good keyboards anymore. They did before they slimmed them down.

I'm actually considering a Lenovo T450s in large part for its magnificent keyboard. I actually really like some chiclet-style keyboards when they're done really well, and the 1.9mm of travel and much more tactile bump of the thicker Lenovo keyboards is certainly the best I have come across.

[tp4tissue]

I've tried it a few times now. At first, I thought it wasn't that bad. Then I thought it was actually kind of fun to type on.

Then I used it more extensively and found that I really disliked it quite a bit. In fact, I used to really like Apple keyboards (such as the aluminum Bluetooth one) but even the current, thinner MacBook Pros don't have very good keyboards anymore. They did before they slimmed them down.

I'm actually considering a Lenovo T450s in large part for its magnificent keyboard. I actually really like some chiclet-style keyboards when they're done really well, and the 1.9mm of travel and much more tactile bump of the thicker Lenovo keyboards is certainly the best I have come across.

Don't get the T450 until they release the quad cores.

[SeeThruHead]

i'm typing on it right now, it definitely sucks compared to a mech but compared to a the chiclet keyboards it's not that bad. Better than screen typing on an iPad that's for sure.

[nubbinator]

Guys, you just don't understand how revolutionary it is and the fact that it's the future.  Come on, get with the times.

[tbc]

you guys ever stick a peg into a battleship game grid?

that's basically the same feeling. it just instantly pops in and bottoms out.  no travel sensation whatsoever.

different materials so different hardness of course.

[mdmcaf]

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

I'm quite in love with my x220, I think when it finally gives out I'm going to go on to an x230 (which if I remember correctly still has the old school style ThinkPad keyboard), and then I'll probably be out of luck. The keyboard on my rMBP isn't too bad, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of my x220.

[mdmcaf]

This is the new thin fan-less macbooks you are talking about right?

I know many here are ignoring this but given how much "effect" apple has on the industry this ****ty keyboard could signal the end of tactile keyboards in the future packaged with systems (desktop and laptops).

They are pretty much saying they don't care about real touch typists who type 60+wpm and need tactility. desktops will soon follow.

20 years from now there will be very few touch typists left, very few millennials i know are touch typists and teens these days are not taught how to type. people buy backlit keyboards so they can hunt and peck. The end of tactile is soon.

im sooo negative.....

Yup, exactly. The new one without the fans or much of anything else. The iPad with the keyboard and OS X.

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

[Altis]

I've tried it a few times now. At first, I thought it wasn't that bad. Then I thought it was actually kind of fun to type on.

Then I used it more extensively and found that I really disliked it quite a bit. In fact, I used to really like Apple keyboards (such as the aluminum Bluetooth one) but even the current, thinner MacBook Pros don't have very good keyboards anymore. They did before they slimmed them down.

I'm actually considering a Lenovo T450s in large part for its magnificent keyboard. I actually really like some chiclet-style keyboards when they're done really well, and the 1.9mm of travel and much more tactile bump of the thicker Lenovo keyboards is certainly the best I have come across.

Don't get the T450 until they release the quad cores.

I'm not sure I'd end up getting a quadcore version anyways. I don't do too much heavy lifting with my laptop as I have a desktop for that (i7 4790K).

I would definitely though if it were my only computer. Lord only knows when quad-core Broadwell will arrive, anyhow.

[Sigmoid]

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

Apple is riding the wave that Steve had made, but with no Steve, the end is in sight. Don't get me wrong, Tim Cook is a great manager, and I'm sure Apple will prosper for decades under his leadership, but he's no visionary. Apple is slowly becoming a follower as opposed to a leader.

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Sometimes the weight and size of the device is king. It can make a world of difference whether it's comfortable to carry in one hand, or if it's easy to pop open on the subway or not. Still, I believe this design was a mistake.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

They never did teach typing. Maybe in some places, but it never was a thing. Most touch typists I know, including myself, are self-taught. The only people I know who did learn typing in school are secretaries and office managers.

[Dreamre]

Feels like I'm typing on an iPhone home button.

[rm-rf]

maybe someone should cram some rice crispix cereal into the keys of the new mac keyboard?
omw to apple store.

[Sygaldry]

I already hate the keyboard on my rMBP Pro (part of the reason I dove head first into the mech community). If the new Macbook 2015 keyboard is even worse than that then I'm absolutely certain that a ThinkPad will be my next keyboard (probably a couple years out since I like to keep my computers for 4 years+)

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

But I tried the Macbook 12 at the store,   the keyboard IMHO is fine..


It's nothing like the smoothness of non bottom out actuation..  but overall I can "deal" with the feel..

I ran my x230 into the ground and I miss it already =/
Before that was an X60 (that's still running) but a 10+ year old laptop really doesn't cut it anymore 

[tp4tissue]

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

I'm quite in love with my x220, I think when it finally gives out I'm going to go on to an x230 (which if I remember correctly still has the old school style ThinkPad keyboard), and then I'll probably be out of luck. The keyboard on my rMBP isn't too bad, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of my x220.

x230 has the new chiclet keyboard,  which IMHO is also just dandy..

but anything after x230 is problematic.

We got the weird 8gb + 4gb on the x240,  and Single channel limitation on the x250..

[Altis]

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

I'm quite in love with my x220, I think when it finally gives out I'm going to go on to an x230 (which if I remember correctly still has the old school style ThinkPad keyboard), and then I'll probably be out of luck. The keyboard on my rMBP isn't too bad, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of my x220.

x230 has the new chiclet keyboard,  which IMHO is also just dandy..

but anything after x230 is problematic.

We got the weird 8gb + 4gb on the x240,  and Single channel limitation on the x250..

Show Image

The keyboard on the T450s and T550 are supposed to be the same superb keyboard as the X230 (chiclet but deep and tactile). I'd get the T550 but apparently the display uses PWM to dim, which I'm not crazy about (the T450s does not). Mind you, 14" is kind of small, especially at 16:9.

The one thing Apple sure does right with the MacBook is the 16:10 aspect ratio.

[tbc]

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

Apple is riding the wave that Steve had made, but with no Steve, the end is in sight. Don't get me wrong, Tim Cook is a great manager, and I'm sure Apple will prosper for decades under his leadership, but he's no visionary. Apple is slowly becoming a follower as opposed to a leader.

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Sometimes the weight and size of the device is king. It can make a world of difference whether it's comfortable to carry in one hand, or if it's easy to pop open on the subway or not. Still, I believe this design was a mistake.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

They never did teach typing. Maybe in some places, but it never was a thing. Most touch typists I know, including myself, are self-taught. The only people I know who did learn typing in school are secretaries and office managers.

where exactly are you from?

[nightdriver]

Resale values of 2014 and older MacBooks just went up

there is no 2014 macbook.  2015 macbook pro and 2015 macbook air both still have the same keyboard they've been using.  the 2015 macbook is essentially a new product.  they haven't sold something just called "macbook" in years.

[mdmcaf]

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

I'm quite in love with my x220, I think when it finally gives out I'm going to go on to an x230 (which if I remember correctly still has the old school style ThinkPad keyboard), and then I'll probably be out of luck. The keyboard on my rMBP isn't too bad, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of my x220.

x230 has the new chiclet keyboard,  which IMHO is also just dandy..

but anything after x230 is problematic.

We got the weird 8gb + 4gb on the x240,  and Single channel limitation on the x250..

Show Image

Yup, you're absolutely right. I have an x201 not an x220. So take the same sentiment expressed in my message above and replace x220 with x201 and x230 with x220.

I had the chicklet keyboard on my x100e, which was a great laptop for what I used it for at the time...but ultimately not powerful enough for what I need out of a laptop. I much prefer the keyboard on the x201 to the x100e. It's not that the x100e is a bad keyboard, it's that the x201 feels so much better. The x201 is also a good size for me, maybe a little thick (especially compared to my 13" rMBP) but it gets the job done.

[mdmcaf]

I'm gonna run my x220 into the ground..

I'm quite in love with my x220, I think when it finally gives out I'm going to go on to an x230 (which if I remember correctly still has the old school style ThinkPad keyboard), and then I'll probably be out of luck. The keyboard on my rMBP isn't too bad, but it's nothing compared to the feeling of my x220.

x230 has the new chiclet keyboard,  which IMHO is also just dandy..

but anything after x230 is problematic.

We got the weird 8gb + 4gb on the x240,  and Single channel limitation on the x250..

Show Image

The keyboard on the T450s and T550 are supposed to be the same superb keyboard as the X230 (chiclet but deep and tactile). I'd get the T550 but apparently the display uses PWM to dim, which I'm not crazy about (the T450s does not). Mind you, 14" is kind of small, especially at 16:9.

The one thing Apple sure does right with the MacBook is the 16:10 aspect ratio.

Yeah, I do enjoy the 16:10.

I've been looking at the T450s and it looks pretty sweet. Some of the reviews I've read complain about it being too thick...but  0.83" isn't thick to me, my rMBP is 0.71" thick. I remember when I was looking to go to college one of my requirements for the laptop I was going to get was that it be no more than 1" thick. A tenth of an inch isn't much especially considering how attractive the price of the T450s is compared to an Ultrabook.

[mdmcaf]

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

Apple is riding the wave that Steve had made, but with no Steve, the end is in sight. Don't get me wrong, Tim Cook is a great manager, and I'm sure Apple will prosper for decades under his leadership, but he's no visionary. Apple is slowly becoming a follower as opposed to a leader.

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Sometimes the weight and size of the device is king. It can make a world of difference whether it's comfortable to carry in one hand, or if it's easy to pop open on the subway or not. Still, I believe this design was a mistake.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

They never did teach typing. Maybe in some places, but it never was a thing. Most touch typists I know, including myself, are self-taught. The only people I know who did learn typing in school are secretaries and office managers.

I suppose it depends on how old you are. I was in high school 2001-2005 and Keyboarding was mandatory for everyone, and it's come in really handy. Probably the only class I took in high school where I still use the skills I learned.

[Seranite]

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

Apple is riding the wave that Steve had made, but with no Steve, the end is in sight. Don't get me wrong, Tim Cook is a great manager, and I'm sure Apple will prosper for decades under his leadership, but he's no visionary. Apple is slowly becoming a follower as opposed to a leader.

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Sometimes the weight and size of the device is king. It can make a world of difference whether it's comfortable to carry in one hand, or if it's easy to pop open on the subway or not. Still, I believe this design was a mistake.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

They never did teach typing. Maybe in some places, but it never was a thing. Most touch typists I know, including myself, are self-taught. The only people I know who did learn typing in school are secretaries and office managers.

I suppose it depends on how old you are. I was in high school 2001-2005 and Keyboarding was mandatory for everyone, and it's come in really handy. Probably the only class I took in high school where I still use the skills I learned.

I was in high school 2006 - 2010 and Keyboarding was mandatory then as well. In fact, I remember Keyboarding was even mandatory in grade school.

[Sigmoid]

Well I grew up in the 80s-90s in Eastern Europe, so my experiences may be different.

[Aer Fixus]

I was in high school 2006 - 2010 and Keyboarding was mandatory then as well. In fact, I remember Keyboarding was even mandatory in grade school.

I wish I got typing classes... Through strange scheduling plus changing schools, even though both my schools had required typing classes, I somehow managed to slip around the requirement for a typing class... it would have helped out so much. I've gotten better since then, but I have absolutely no form because of it.

[tbc]

I agree with you about Apple leading the way when it comes to this kind of thing, they lead in most other things concerning technology. I honestly think they don't even give the feel of the keyboard much consideration - people seem pretty satisfied banging away on touch screens and the new MacBook keyboard is a little bit better than that, so why not?

Apple is riding the wave that Steve had made, but with no Steve, the end is in sight. Don't get me wrong, Tim Cook is a great manager, and I'm sure Apple will prosper for decades under his leadership, but he's no visionary. Apple is slowly becoming a follower as opposed to a leader.

I think there will always be a place for tactile keyboards - maybe not so much in the laptop world where lightness and thin-ness seem to be everyone's main concern. It boggles my mind that the keyboard would be an after thought but maybe that's because I'm a Terminal junkie and a writer so I spend a lot of time with the keyboard.

Sometimes the weight and size of the device is king. It can make a world of difference whether it's comfortable to carry in one hand, or if it's easy to pop open on the subway or not. Still, I believe this design was a mistake.

Are they really not teaching typing anymore? I knew they weren't teaching cursive (which is a travesty in and of itself), but I'd think that with computers becoming such an essential part of modern day existence they'd still teach typing.

They never did teach typing. Maybe in some places, but it never was a thing. Most touch typists I know, including myself, are self-taught. The only people I know who did learn typing in school are secretaries and office managers.

I suppose it depends on how old you are. I was in high school 2001-2005 and Keyboarding was mandatory for everyone, and it's come in really handy. Probably the only class I took in high school where I still use the skills I learned.

I was in high school 2006 - 2010 and Keyboarding was mandatory then as well. In fact, I remember Keyboarding was even mandatory in grade school.

yap.

since gr.3 in 1998

[Seranite]

I was in high school 2006 - 2010 and Keyboarding was mandatory then as well. In fact, I remember Keyboarding was even mandatory in grade school.

I wish I got typing classes... Through strange scheduling plus changing schools, even though both my schools had required typing classes, I somehow managed to slip around the requirement for a typing class... it would have helped out so much. I've gotten better since then, but I have absolutely no form because of it.

Well if it makes you feel any better, despite these classes, I STILL can't type in the proper form!