Author Topic: Need help picking new GFX card  (Read 10396 times)

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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Need help picking new GFX card
« on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 19:17:31 »
Well, long story short, I have an old PC that I can't really replace right now with bad air flow in the case I can't really help.

I need a graphics card that won't be an overkill for this system, will be strong enough to avoid overheating as far as possible and will get enough juice from the PSU. Preferably no annoying vibrations from the fan (I'm hypersensitive to that kind of thing, unfortunately), preferably no bad fan noise at all (humming is okay).

Here's the relevant stats:

CPU: e8600
RAM: 4x2 GB DDR2 800 MHz A-DATA VITESTA
HDD: SAMSUNG F1
PSU: OCZ Z5 650W

I do have an aftermarket box, but airflow seems to be bad, apparently, even with case wings removed and/or plenty of fans. The rest of the system is okay, but GFX cards end up exceeding 100 degrees Celsius eventually.

My last new card was a GeForce 460 GTX, but it went bad and started causing Windows to crash or not load at all. I'm back to my older Radeon 4850 with custom cooling, but the huge heatsink + 12 cm fan apparently is not enough. It wasn't before I replaced it, either (with the exception of a couple of specific driver releases that made it work stably).

The nVidia did overheat a bit from time to time, but that was rare and practically always recoverable. The 4850 does that all the time and requires a system reset. Can't even play Crusader Kings 2 (which the nVidia could handle without breaking a sweat most of the time), forget anything more demanding or stability-critical (e.g. multiplayer with a ranking system).

Part of the problem is that I have a PCI-E soundcard just above the GFX card. Small form-factor, but still quite close and all.

Ideally wouldn't spend more than 200 bucks, preferably a bit less.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #1 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 19:25:48 »
Too funny.

My browser window is only so big, so it cut off your thread title at "Need help picking new GF"
"Starting in 2011, the deficits again started to shrink. During Obama’s term  the deficit was reduced by $900 Billion  before finally in 2015 the GOP managed to wrangle a “reconciliation” bill out of Obama where he again cut corporate taxes, as well as made permanent some of George W. Bush’s original tax cuts. This is the year everything reversed. Before this, under Clinton, Bush and Obama the deficit in almost every year was gradually decreasing. The balance we had of taxes and the economy was bringing the deficit down, the money coming in was slowly catching up with the money going out until 2015. Trump’s subsequent tax cut has continued the new trend even after the rest of Bush’s cuts have since expired. Obama had an average GDP of 2.3%, with 11.6 million jobs created and unemployment peaking at 10% in 2009, then falling to 4.3% in 2016. If we had continued on that downward deficit track, we would have again reached balance and another surplus in 2017-2018.
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Offline whmeltonjr

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #2 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 19:50:49 »
What about a GTX 750 Ti? Pretty good little card. A little more info on what you play/do on your computer might help with a recommendation.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #3 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 20:56:26 »
Too funny.

My browser window is only so big, so it cut off your thread title at "Need help picking new GF"

That's beyond help. I've already given up. ;)


What about a GTX 750 Ti? Pretty good little card. A little more info on what you play/do on your computer might help with a recommendation.

For work, I do heavy duty text-editing, often with huge files and parsing and large memory files attached. For work, well, it depends. Right now I'd like to play some Crusader Kings 2 and Grid 1-2, would like to get back to Starcraft 2. Have Grand Ages 2: Medieval on my radar. Would be nice to max out the settings in Shogun 2 without choking or microlags or CTD. But my completely #1 top priority would be no crashes requiring a hard reset, ever, and #2 would be no control loss, microlags or anything like that in Starcraft 2 and/or other multiplayer.

Right now, judging by Tom's ranking and prices on Allegro (Polish e-Bay clone), my best option seems to be a used card: on the nVidia side GF 960 (those'll be often almost new but difficult to find for a price I could justify spending) and that's it, on the ATI side: R9 280 (more popular than 960, lower prices, overall easier to get, but AFAIK it sucks more juice), 7970 and 7950.

There seems to be a bunch of Asus Supercharged 750ti cards too, from a normal shop but not new (a little bit afraid if that doesn't mean post-RMA/refurbished cards), for PLN 469, vs the 699 I would need to pay for a 960.

But I'm quite decided to go with either the 750ti or the 960 for power reasons (400W/20A requirement). My PSU can supposedly do 550W/46A on the 12V line, but I'm a little skeptical (suspecting some problems with amperage), especially considering how the 450W/26A 460GTX gave me less trouble than the 450W/30A ATI 4850 is giving me now.

Offline thelectronicnub

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #4 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 21:06:41 »
750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used
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Offline Wuzadi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #5 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 21:13:36 »
750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used

Have to agree with you, those 7850s and 7870s are beast little cards that still kick ass, pretty much best bang for your buck looking for lower tier cards.
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #6 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 22:19:35 »
What about newer R270X (those can be had for the same price as the GF750ti) or older 7950/7970 (just a little more expensive)?

Offline Badwrench

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #7 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 22:20:23 »
750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used

Totally agree.  I dropped a 7870 in my daughter's build with an 1150 socked pentium clocked at 3.5ghz and it played every game we threw at it at 60+ fps @ 1080p.  Great little card. 

As far as overheating, what case are you running?  What is your airflow set up like?  Ideally, cold air should enter the front/bottom and go out the top/back.  For cases with poor airflow, you may want to consider a reference style cooler for your gpu.  You give up a couple deg C compared to a custom solution, but when gaming/working for extended periods, they stay very consistant due to all the heat dumping out the back of the computer while the custom solutions tend to just keep recycling the air in the case and get hotter and hotter. 

wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline Wuzadi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #8 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 22:25:50 »
750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used

Totally agree.  I dropped a 7870 in my daughter's build with an 1150 socked pentium clocked at 3.5ghz and it played every game we threw at it at 60+ fps @ 1080p.  Great little card. 

As far as overheating, what case are you running?  What is your airflow set up like?  Ideally, cold air should enter the front/bottom and go out the top/back.  For cases with poor airflow, you may want to consider a reference style cooler for your gpu.  You give up a couple deg C compared to a custom solution, but when gaming/working for extended periods, they stay very consistant due to all the heat dumping out the back of the computer while the custom solutions tend to just keep recycling the air in the case and get hotter and hotter.

Yes, this is really over looked. I know way too many people that go for after market with the twin fans. All that does is spin the hot air around your case. If heat is truly an issue definitely consider a reference model with a blower. Sucks in air and shoots it out the back.
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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #9 on: Fri, 25 September 2015, 22:37:24 »
Well, long story short, I have an old PC that I can't really replace right now with bad air flow in the case I can't really help.

I need a graphics card that won't be an overkill for this system, will be strong enough to avoid overheating as far as possible and will get enough juice from the PSU. Preferably no annoying vibrations from the fan (I'm hypersensitive to that kind of thing, unfortunately), preferably no bad fan noise at all (humming is okay).

Here's the relevant stats:

CPU: e8600
RAM: 4x2 GB DDR2 800 MHz A-DATA VITESTA
HDD: SAMSUNG F1
PSU: OCZ Z5 650W

I do have an aftermarket box, but airflow seems to be bad, apparently, even with case wings removed and/or plenty of fans. The rest of the system is okay, but GFX cards end up exceeding 100 degrees Celsius eventually.

My last new card was a GeForce 460 GTX, but it went bad and started causing Windows to crash or not load at all. I'm back to my older Radeon 4850 with custom cooling, but the huge heatsink + 12 cm fan apparently is not enough. It wasn't before I replaced it, either (with the exception of a couple of specific driver releases that made it work stably).

The nVidia did overheat a bit from time to time, but that was rare and practically always recoverable. The 4850 does that all the time and requires a system reset. Can't even play Crusader Kings 2 (which the nVidia could handle without breaking a sweat most of the time), forget anything more demanding or stability-critical (e.g. multiplayer with a ranking system).

Part of the problem is that I have a PCI-E soundcard just above the GFX card. Small form-factor, but still quite close and all.

Ideally wouldn't spend more than 200 bucks, preferably a bit less.

Why not just replace the GTX460 with a new GTX460?  They are awesome cards.  I'm sure you can find one from someone very inexpensive.

Edit:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PNY-Nvidia-Geforce-GTX-460-1GB-GDDR5-PCI-Express-2-0-x16-M1567-/381413155048

Not bad for a 256-bit GDDR5 PNY card.  Better than that 750ti everyone is suggesting too.
« Last Edit: Fri, 25 September 2015, 23:12:58 by Snowdog993 »

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #10 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 00:04:10 »

Why not just replace the GTX460 with a new GTX460?  They are awesome cards.  I'm sure you can find one from someone very inexpensive.

Can find some used ones for about 33% of the price of 7900/270–280 series from ATI or the cheapest used GTX 960 I was able to find.

Interestingly, though, 570 is only 25% more expensive but supposedly outperforms the 750ti. Apart from being a power hog, which I really worry about. I'm curious what the others think.

750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used

Poland here, unfortunately. Differences between prices are quite weird here, in part because some of the old cards had been bought with different forex rates, but tech takes longer to travel too. Long story short, at the price a 7870 costs (which is like $120 after conversion), a 280X (or 7970) costs only 40% extra.

On the other hand, the old GF 570 is like twice cheaper. What do you think about that one?

Quote
As far as overheating, what case are you running?

Some kind of old black oven from Chieftec. This one. Usually keep the wings removed. After-market CPU cooler but nothing special, just a little better than the box one. 12 cm exhaust sysfan. Graphics card currently uses an Accelero heatsink with a single 12 cm fan. Perhaps the problem is that the PC is squeezed right in the corner of the room and under the desk. It's really cold right next to it (like you have to watch your legs or you'll get a cold), but inside the cards usually end up really, really hot.

Quote
What is your airflow set up like?  Ideally, cold air should enter the front/bottom and go out the top/back.

No intake fan, only exhaust fan in standard case fan location under the PSU. GPU fan could do that, from the bottom, if I flipped it (right now into blows onto the case floor, which is not very far apart).

Quote
For cases with poor airflow, you may want to consider a reference style cooler for your gpu.  You give up a couple deg C compared to a custom solution, but when gaming/working for extended periods, they stay very consistant due to all the heat dumping out the back of the computer while the custom solutions tend to just keep recycling the air in the case and get hotter and hotter.

Didn't know that, thanks. The 460 had a Gigabyte twin thingy.

I actually have a spare 4850 from Gainward that's reference-style, from a failed attempt at Crossfire (I was getting BSODs IIRC). The problem is the thing is awfully loud and horrible (60 mm fast-spinning fan).



Offline thelectronicnub

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #11 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 00:06:43 »
750 ti is overpriced and overhyped, it should really be only used in builds with limited psus, I'd go with a Radeon 7850 or 7870(your power supply has more than enough power), both beat out the 750 ti, and can be had for $60 and $80 respectively on /r/hardwareswap(dont look on ebay, they gouge the prices) used

Totally agree.  I dropped a 7870 in my daughter's build with an 1150 socked pentium clocked at 3.5ghz and it played every game we threw at it at 60+ fps @ 1080p.  Great little card. 

As far as overheating, what case are you running?  What is your airflow set up like?  Ideally, cold air should enter the front/bottom and go out the top/back.  For cases with poor airflow, you may want to consider a reference style cooler for your gpu.  You give up a couple deg C compared to a custom solution, but when gaming/working for extended periods, they stay very consistant due to all the heat dumping out the back of the computer while the custom solutions tend to just keep recycling the air in the case and get hotter and hotter.

here's my temps so you can get an idea of them



right now i have an air 540 with a gigabyte r9 280x(stock clocks, windforce, non-ref) and a g3258(@4.4ghz, 1.2v temporary cpu, i'm going to be getting a xeon e3-1231v3)

my temps are pretty good considering i live in a desert(its 90F outside and its 10PM here  :-X)
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 September 2015, 00:09:10 by thelectronicnub »
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #12 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 00:22:51 »
Not worth upgrading PERIOD...


For starcraft, it's CPU bound..  on the e8600, you're looking at 15-35fps in large midgame battles..

Even the best players will have trouble with that kind of stutter.


You're going to need a whole new PC..


It's better to just save up, and buy the whole thing at once,  because that way you get the best price to performance ratio, on whatever you buy "THAT DAY"


If you buy it now,  by the time you upgrade the rest,   you could've actually gotten a better build with less money..



get in on the discount 4790k and 4690k  that's going on right now, as everyone's moving to z1 platform.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #13 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 00:29:12 »
What about newer R270X (those can be had for the same price as the GF750ti) or older 7950/7970 (just a little more expensive)?

you really don't want an old 7950 / 7970 unless you want to use them to watch movies and such..

The used 670s and 680s are a better deal and they run much cooler and are less noisy.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #14 on: Sat, 26 September 2015, 07:34:14 »
The used 670s and 680s are a better deal and they run much cooler and are less noisy.

I'd prefer to avoid noise. Inaudible GFX while working in text editors would be a must. Due to a problem with my labyrinth (the locomotive-sickness thing in the ear) and migraines, I'm more concerned with vibrations/pulsations whatever than simple humming or whooshing, even if louder. This is actually half the reason I go for aftermarket or non-reference coolers (with large fans, preferably).

Otherwise I'm only speculating that a card that gave out less heat would be more preferable.

EDIT: Re: upgrading, I just can't. I have a whole line-up of more urgent expenses, so I can't spend any amount even in the low thousands this year or the next unless things go unexpectedly well at work and in the family at the same time. Don't need a stronger PC for work and was mostly fine in games too with the 460.

EDIT2: Thinking about Crossfire again. Theoretically, my PSU should be able to handle it. In practice, back in 2012/2013 I was getting BSODs. Could have some bad air flow problems from stacking the cards right on top of one another (if I manage to fit them all in at all, without having to remove the soundcard, which I don't think is going to be possible).
« Last Edit: Sat, 26 September 2015, 08:11:58 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline cmadrid

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #15 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 11:05:26 »
Maybe get a better computer CASE and transfer everything over for better air flow instead?

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #16 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 11:09:47 »
Maybe get a better computer CASE and transfer everything over for better air flow instead?

I bought a really nice (huge full tower) computer case well over a decade ago and have been building fresh guts into it, piece-by-piece, for years now. Since it is so old, it does not accommodate fans bigger than 80mm, but it has places for at least half a dozen of them.

A good case is a good investment, when you can swing it.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #17 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 11:38:10 »
Maybe get a better computer CASE and transfer everything over for better air flow instead?

I bought a really nice (huge full tower) computer case well over a decade ago and have been building fresh guts into it, piece-by-piece, for years now. Since it is so old, it does not accommodate fans bigger than 80mm, but it has places for at least half a dozen of them.

A good case is a good investment, when you can swing it.

I think most of the new series parts sandybridge and above, make nice, low idle power file servers/ transcoders.

So,  cheaper cases might be the way to go,


P280 on sale, $60, every other month or so.

Offline cmadrid

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 13:17:22 »
Maybe get a better computer CASE and transfer everything over for better air flow instead?

I bought a really nice (huge full tower) computer case well over a decade ago and have been building fresh guts into it, piece-by-piece, for years now. Since it is so old, it does not accommodate fans bigger than 80mm, but it has places for at least half a dozen of them.

A good case is a good investment, when you can swing it.

I think most of the new series parts sandybridge and above, make nice, low idle power file servers/ transcoders.

So,  cheaper cases might be the way to go,


P280 on sale, $60, every other month or so.

He doesn't have newer hardware, and isn't planning on upgrading his pc components very soon he said :o

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #19 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 20:12:18 »
If you HAD to buy something TODAY..

I'd get a gtx 670 on ebay for ~$100-125

For the heat issue don't bother buying anything..

Just run the system with the side panel off..  this solves your cooling problems INSTANTLY

turn off ur front case fans,  the single one on the back next to the io ports is sufficient.



Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #20 on: Sun, 27 September 2015, 20:13:23 »
If you HAD to buy something TODAY..

I'd get a gtx 670 on ebay for ~$100-125

For the case don't bother buying anything..

Just run the system with the side panel off..  this solves your cooling problems INSTANTLY

turn off ur front case fans,  the single one on the back next to the io ports is sufficient.

I concur on the GTX670.  Excellent card.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 11:21:13 »
I only have one case fan anyway — an exhaust sysfan in the standard old location under top-mounted PSU.

Believe it or not, my GFX cards (3 different ones so far) for some reason tend to glitch even with case wings removed. When I closed the case, I even had a reset-requiring glitch today during normal office work (for the first time in the last 15 years or so) on a card that was hot but still perfectly touchable on all of its accessible surface (perhaps mem chips/controler overheated, Sapphire HD 4850s used to have this problem). But again, with removed case wings I've seen two different ATI HD 4850s and one GF GTX 460 crash or stutter (including driver loss of control and recovery in the Windows Aero interface).

I wonder if my (much hated) mobo isn't faulty or something. Which kinda makes me want to discard the whole thing. Should have upgraded the entire PC minus GFX, PSU and HDD back when the 460 was alive and I had more money.

Re: new case, I kinda I feel I need one. I've just accepted some overtime this week, so I'll have a bit more cash. Is there any specific model I could just buy without having to devise airflow schemes in my own head? I'm not above cutting up a freaking vacuum cleaner hose to make an airduct, but I'm really not good at airflow design with modern computers.

Need: No vibration, for health reasons. Kinda precludes < 120 mm fans. The brushing and whooshing isn't bad, though the quieter the better. Would be great if I could avoid echo effects etc. too.
Prefer: No huge side fan on the side of the case because that's where my legs are (already getting colds from the computer), and I'd rather keep the PC under my desk in the corner of the room, because there's very little place for it otherwise.

With some pain I could probably fork out the cash for an entire new rig, but I had to upgrade a lot of costly software this year and still have some lare and pressing expenses this year or early next year (several thousand euros to wrap up an overdue degree at uni), so I'd rather not. Hence I'm essentially looking at these three basic options:

1. Best bang for the buck in terms of pure feature enablement and FPS relief, for this rig, no thought to the future. Likely meaning getting a used old formerly high-end card (something that was made to cost $700 on release) with emphasis on 2013 or older games, maxed out in 1920*1080.
2. Cheaping out to near max and avoid dumping money in an old rig... and overloading the PSU, killing the airflow or temps or any combination of the foregoing. This likely means just getting something better for like $20–30 more than a used 460 costs.
3. A card that will last me long enough to be the first GFX in my new rig in 2 years or so (without or without buying an additional one for SLI/Crossfire later), which leans heavily towards newest cards from the midrange.

And I kinda really need a new GFX because:

1. The performance of a single HD 4850 is too weak. It already had been in 2012.
2. I actually have two HD 4850s — one is unstable under loads (which is also why Crossfire won't work, as it exacerbates the problem and crashes all the time) but quiet with Accelero S1 and big fan (sometimes unstable when quiet... memory?), the other has twice more more RAM and is stabler but is also a brutal murder on the eyes (even when locked inside this huge 10 kg iron coffin from Chieftec and set on the lowest rotation speed it will accept).

So right now I'm thinking about the following scenarios re: GFX replacement, which are my detailed options, which are way, way too many and make my head hopelessly spin:

1. A 570ti (preferably NIB) not because of GFX power or system power consumption but because of the low TDP (60 W), which should be a more than manageable heat dump with one of those beefier whole-card non-reference coolers from certain manufacturers. If I took a version that had the 6-pin AND a beefy cooler, I would have an to overclocking reserve, too. Alternatively, I could pick a low profile and short version (the size of my X-fi Titanium soundcard) for better airflow inside the case.
2. R270(X) for better performance for the same price.
3. An ATI 7850 or even 7870 LE/XT (Tahiti core) for the same price actually as a GF750ti and a ton more power, but much more heat and power consumption for my physics-challenged brain to worry avoid.
4. GF770 for the ultimate power within my price range and PSU capacity. Not really all that expensive relative to the other cards.
5. GF960 to go light on the energy and wattage (lighter than the 460) but get the newest tech and the longest-lasting potential (I could then buy a new computer a little faster faster, i.e. without having to buy a new GFX card initially).
6.  ATI 280X for the same but less energy saving and more robust architecture. Those nVidia mid-range cards are so freaking flimsy. My 7600 GT survived one year and my GTX 460 2.5 years, bought bought NIB.
7. The odd GF 660–680 or 750–760 (or cheaper 7850) essentially for costing just a little more than another GTX 460.
8. GTX... 480, as it can't be worse than a 460 and is cheap enough. But a huge power hug too.

But I'm reluctant to go with a 7850 from ATI or a 750ti or weaker from nVidia because they actually produce fewer FPS in Starcraft 2 (yes, oddly, GTX 460 beats GT 7850 by at least 5 fps, along with many other cards; GTX seems to be very lucky in SC2 for some reason) and possibly in other games. There is a real possibility of some of those cards performing worse than the GTX 460. And I'm also worried whether 7850 will stay cool and stable where a 4850 could not.

At the same time, I'm reluctant to spend a ton of money on a powerful card for a bottlenecked computer.

Hence I'm kinda inclined to grab a Tahiti 7870 XT/LE for <$140 (after converting from PLN), which looks like the best bang for the buck alongside a GTS 770 for $170-185 (same price as the cheapest used R280X sometimes appear with BuyNow) or take the safer course power-and-heat-wise and pick up an R270 (NIB) for the same price.

Re: my cooling/airflow situation:

My desk is in the 'north-west' corner of the room. My computer almost sits in the room corner (separated from the wall by desk legs). It really is awfully cold down there (I get colds all the time, sometimes wrap a blanket around my knees), but the thing still overheats. It also catches a ton of dust very quickly, even with wings removed. The case is a very old 10 kg thick iron box (ice cold in touch almost all the time), a mini/midi tower just a bit taller than a normal-sized mobo + PSU. These days I have a taller desk with also no drawers (writing table basically), so I could accommodate a big tower (+15 or +20 cm case height). My apartment probably had a less than fully reliable power grid, also other devices have power problems and fuses go out every now and then (e.g. when I turn on the laundry machine and the oven and computer and TV at the same time on weekends). It never leads to my PC actually shutting down or something, but I don't trust the power that comes from the wall. Other than all this, perhaps I'm blaming the grid or airflow for mobo damage, can't exclude this. I can't really move my PC from its corner, so I'd rather not have a huge side fan, as it would blow right on my nees.

At this point, I'd be perfectly content to just pay a couple dozen bucks more and quit the overanalysing and wasting your time while and my own where I could just read a book or play a game. I feel like I'll make it up fast with overtime at work than I will arrive at solutions when thinking more at this stage. :( … which, however, is what I've just done, there should be some extra bucks to play with. Not enough for a PC, more than enough for a card.

Perhaps I could buy both a case (especially where a cheap one will do and the same vendor can add some fans to the shipment within one shipment fee) and a card.

If a cheap case and a cheap GFX card is your suggestion, then right now I can afford to get both. Just perhaps not $400 total.

If Polish text doesn't scare you and/or if you're feeling bored somewhat, here's where I'd be buying from. Narrowed down to unused boxes on BuyNow, capped at PLN700. I would prefer to stay under PLN 350, though. Under PLN200 would be sweet.

Cultural flavour: A lot of US brands don't exist in this market. Antec and CoolerMaster does, also Corsair... Modecom is a local brand that's uninspiring but occasionally solid enough for some purposes (definitely better than noname but not as good as established brands). Unfortunately, these all look like very old designs for old PCs. Unfortunately as well, same stuff is going to cost much more in real shops (even those that really mail-order operations), so I'm kinda stuck with the place.

Alternatively I could just start with my old Chieftec with wings and go from there. Don't really need pre-made screw holes for fans, as long as I have a piece of cord and a fan cable long enough.
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 September 2015, 11:23:13 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 28 September 2015, 12:04:52 »
Cases that caught my attention:

Silentium Gladius (can it be good enough?)
Corsair Carbide (looks clunky/cramped, though, and airflow path doesn't inspire my confidence)
Zalman Z12 (narrow... too narrow perhaps)
Zalman Z9 (two floor fans)
Thermaltake Z9 (23 cm fan but looks obstructed by the HDD rack, and the case otherwise looks like an oven to me, am I wrong?)
CoolerMaster 690 III (20 cm front, plenty of room top and bottom to move a ton of air through the case, but design looks old)
Zalman T4 (small and up to the point, perhaps good for quick air turnover with a low-profile Titanium, but meh)

Some really cheap ones like $20 with an included 14 cm fan (if this one were good enough to beat my old Chieftec, it would be stupid not to take it):

http://allegro.pl/obudowa-nitron-shogun-pt53bk-usb-3-0-planetcom-i5510252285.html (includes openings for cables too)

Expensive stuff:

Antec Nine Hundred Two (ugh)
BeQuiet SilentBase 800 (ugh)
BeQuiet SilentBase 800
Overseer (only 20 cm fans used...)
Zalman H1 (seems to have shutter blinds and its own software...)
Enermax Giant (about the only one capable of fitting a tall cooler like Accelero S1 comfortably along with Lepa Lenyx)

Weird stuff:

Cooler Master MasterCase (very nice design inside, looks cheap on the outside, strange overall)
Corsair Graphite (both silencing mats and fan openings a dozen)
TT Core (fat, v. nice window)
CM Silencio (extreme silencing, I guess)
NZXT Source (pivot fan inside)
BitFenix Shinobi (intelligent bottom HDD rack for once; silencing mats)
XFX Bravo (just look at the thing, CPU/VGA area is all mesh)

I really like this one for the unobstructed flow (removed HDD rack, HDD installable down there with the PSU)

***

Seeing some of those with room for like 2 fans through the floor makes me think about mounting such a case on a rack/stool some 50 cm above the ground and no desk above the 'chimney'. I would simply put my printer under the desk or something to make the room.

I could also remove the bottom HDD rack and install my HDD in the 5.25'' top bay with silencers/stabilizers.

***

This Chieftec is almost exactly my current case[/url].
« Last Edit: Mon, 28 September 2015, 13:48:33 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline Charizard

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #23 on: Tue, 29 September 2015, 23:52:00 »
I also recommend the GTX 670, ran that cars in one of my boxes for a few years and never had any issues with it.

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 30 September 2015, 00:26:42 »

BitFenix Shinobi (intelligent bottom HDD rack for once; silencing mats)

***

I have a Bitfenix Shinobi (No window).  It's a fantastic case.  I also have the Antec P-183 and a couple of P-180's.  For the price, the Bitfenix is a great deal.  It's also very well designed.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 08:17:35 »
Update: I've done a lot of research to smarten up about current and slightly dated cards, well, way too much but anyway. Right now it seems that Poland's computer market is affected by forex changes, so that older cards are cheaper because they were imported back before the dollar went up. This also affects the prices of used cards, which are obviously further affected by the seller's temper.

Then there's the known matter with new cards having a cost-cutting production process (e.g. the 128 bits and 2 GG RAM in the 960). This means it makes more sense economically to go after older cards, especially the high-end models. Those, however, usually charge a lot of power, which is a bit of a problem with aged/weaker PSUs, bad power grids and stuff like that. And noise can be more of a problem too. The worst problem, however, is the decision deadlock. It seems impossible to arrive at usable and reasonably certain conclusions, and I've tried. There's always a tradeoff some coupla bucks above or below the price of whatever you're looking at, then there's also always the way you don't know what's gonna happen next week.

Hence, I think I'll just be going for a new card, that being a 960 more likely than not.

Pros:
– less information to analyse and compare
– less probability that the card will die soon (although cards I've bought new have died within 1–3 years too)
– warranty, especially if purchased from a normal shop rather than the previous owner
– low power consumption, low noise (21-23 dbA under load with some non-reference cards)

Cons:
– uncertain performance in older DX9–DX10 games, where older high-end cards with more expensive and sturdier components excelled
– somewhat overpaid compared to e.g. the performance of a Radeon 7870XT that costs less than a GF 750ti, or a used GF 580, even 670–680 or even 7--
– 128 bits, 2 GB RAM... not great for 1920*1080 with an older CPU and RAM

I could go for the 4 GB version, but 192 bits is probably not quite good enough for 4 GB.

Also going to get an SSD as a system drive and put all my games and frequently used software on it.

That and perhaps but a used XEON, they're so cheap now. Just don't know how much improvement over an 8600. But a faster CPU would count as a work upgrade, easier to justify. ;)

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 15:33:30 »
Can you wait a few more weeks for Black Friday?
That would be my suggestion.
On Prime Day I picked up 2 EVGA GTX 970 FTW for a total of $515

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 04 October 2015, 23:19:27 »
Well, I can certainly wait, I have a lot to do, and I don't really have any new games. I have old games I haven't played yet, for which even a 4850 will be sufficient, more so if I can get crossfire to work. This whole tinkering makes me more excited than any prospect of actually doing anything with the power, whereas I'm not a benching type of person, either, so perhaps I simply miss some tinkering.

From what I've been able to gather, nVidia already has a bunch more Maxwells lined up for releasing, 950ti and possibly 960ti, and that's gonna bump down the prices of non-ti units and possibly of the 970 as well. Besides, reviewers in this country are complaining about the unrealistic pricing wanted by nVidia, so that's gonna have some effect eventually.

The better deals are associated with old used cards — because they'd been bought when the dollar was low, some time ago. Particularly Tahiti Radeons 79--/7870 are quite affordable, as are GeForces 580 (100 dollars, that one). Ocassionally, a stronger GF is sold for a lowish price, though I'd be hesitant to go below series 7 due to eclipsing/ageing/new toys/whatever that are soon gonna make the cards obsolete. :/

If new, it only really pays to buy a GF 960 or a Radeon 280x (which is a little cheaper), the pricing of anything else new is off the whack and all mixed up.

What else? I've just realized I still have a reasonably decent 520W PSU with PCI-E connectors that works. Could go dual PSU and Tahiti crossfire for just a little above the price of a 960 GTX.

I'm definitely going to go SSD some times soon. OC the CPU and get the RAM to give me something back for the premium I paid on it. I'm pleasantly surprised by 4 full banks not resulting in a frequency drop.

Finally, cheap Xeons are popping up, not that Quads are really all that much more expensive. Well, it's still 50–100%, the difference, but in absolute numbers it isn't really that much anyway. But I don't wanna burn the mobo.

… Hence, instead, I just might rather get a powerful socket 775 CPU cooler that will work with more modern CPUs in the future, so that I can take it with me to the next computer. And go for 4.3 GHz on the 8600, or something. Could go with a Polish manufacturer for that one, save some costs. People are crazy about Silentium coolers.

And a new case. Can't really justify not getting one.

Oh, and a sack or two of fans, that is, if I win or two of those auctions where they're sold by the sack at the normal price of 2-3 used units. Or not. A Polish company has just come up with some really cheap really high-airflow slient fans.

But the card... ugh... really can't choose. Too much data. Probably gonna go with a Tahiti in the neighbourhood of $130 if I don't find a cheap enough 960 to make it worth it (7850 and regular 7870 are like $25 less, as are 750tis, but heh, I'm not gonna skimp and gimp). Alternatively, one of those older high-end GFs. But I prefer to play in 1080, hence I'm not too enthusiastic about 2 GB RAM or less (or with a 128-bit bus). I'm mostly enthusiastic about the 960's low power consumption and noise levels.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #28 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 04:13:04 »
A new case is imperative. I can highly recommend the CoolerMaster HAF series. They're affordable, well laid out and have plenty of vents and cooling options.

Then if you want to keep the current system going for a while, get another 460. They're great cards and don't generate too much heat. You could also try underclocking it. Performance in games like Starcraft will be unaffected and it'll generate less heat, fans will run slower, etc.

I run a pair of watercooled GTX460's and they still perform surprisingly well on modern titles in 1080p (40fps at least in most games with settings at or close to max).
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Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #29 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 08:55:15 »
A new case is imperative. I can highly recommend the CoolerMaster HAF series. They're affordable, well laid out and have plenty of vents and cooling options.

Thanks, I've noticed them before, though I didn't really know what to think about them.

Quote
Then if you want to keep the current system going for a while, get another 460. They're great cards and don't generate too much heat.

I thought about that, but there usually seems to be like something better at the same price or within a dozen or two bucks, like one or two shelves or generations higher. Right now, for example:

GTX470 costs the same (2 steps).
GTX 560 costs the same (1-step ugpgrade), 560ti (2 steps) just some $8 more if you're lucky.
GTX 650ti also can be had for that $8 more (1 step).
GTX 750 (non-ti) claims $18 more (1 step but probably newer toys).
GTX 570 will require $20 more and is supposed to be one step above 750i.
GTX 480 also.
6-- are expensive, but sometimes go cheap without BuyNow. Occasionally 7-series do, but that's more like $180 or so. 760 or 670 normally is unreasonably expensive.

Above, prices get more serious. But used 580 (1.2–1.5 GB can be had for $101).

On the radeon side:

HD7770 costs the same, a bit less than the most expensive 460s, is in the same range, but probably has newer software toys.
HD6850, similar thing.
HD6870 is on par in price with the most expensive 460s (or some $10 less) and one step up the ladder.
HD5850 similar thing.
HD5870 (2 steps up) is at $3–$8 more depending on the cooling/other details.
HD6950 similar thing.

At 7850 differences get serious, like $30, and 6970 is a bit more expensive than that.

However, Tahiti 7870XT is supposed to be on par with GTX 960 and costs like less than double what a 460 does ($120). Except add $40 and you can have a real 7970, supposedly one step above nVidia'a 960. Less on auctions without BuyNow if you're lucky. Another $40 for a 280x.

At least if we believe Tom's GPU hierarchy.

Probably the best bang for the buck is the 580 if it can hold its own in newer games, and the Tahiti, which is probably more modern. Or 660ti if it sells cheap enough.

Quote
You could also try underclocking it. Performance in games like Starcraft will be unaffected and it'll generate less heat, fans will run slower, etc.

Can't get to the point of being able to access the driver, though, except perhaps manually editing some text file with OC information when in safe mode.

Quote
I run a pair of watercooled GTX460's and they still perform surprisingly well on modern titles in 1080p (40fps at least in most games with settings at or close to max).

I'd definitely been thinking about that in the event the card wasn't damaged, but it is. So I guess I'm stuck with 4850 crossfire, but yeah, I have 2 of them lying about here. One of them has a loud cooler, but those cards can sometimes be had for $10–15 with great cooling on them. (Occasionally a higher 4870–4890).

Curiously, GTX280 and GTX285 costs about a half of a 460, while being close to even with the 192-bit version. And someone's trying to sell a 590. It's low right now, sixty bucks or so, but there are two days left for bids.


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #30 on: Mon, 05 October 2015, 16:15:35 »
Trust me, I HAVE a tahiti 7870 xt,  the 7870 Myst,   Basically the problem is Cooling, it runs hot as hell but it doesn't have the larger cooler like the 7950 7970,  so it's hard to keep the vrm temperatures down on stock cooling.

Mine is modded with a 120mm cpu cooler, and I have a 70mm fan  blowing directly at the vrm,  This way, it is overclocked CLOSE to 7970 stock level performance..

But, would I do it again?  Heck no..  I'd just get a 670 used and call it a day.

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #31 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 01:45:07 »
In that case I'd probably aim for a new 4GB GTX960. MUCH better TDP than a GTX580 and performance is great for the price. Also, longevity. Should run cool and quiet and push pixels in 1080p all day with no worries.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #32 on: Tue, 06 October 2015, 17:05:09 »
if the 960 4gb costs something like 200-250,  then it's really not worth it.

might as well get the 970,  or the used 670 or 680

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 07 October 2015, 03:36:04 »
if the 960 4gb costs something like 200-250,  then it's really not worth it.

might as well get the 970,  or the used 670 or 680

I wholeheartedly disagree. 970 is $100 more for very little performance gain. Used 670 is $50 to $70 less, but it's only 2GB and the TDP is much worse, so it uses more power, runs hotter and has lower performance...

The 960 4GB is the best price / performance / longevity / power / cooling sweetspot.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 07 October 2015, 07:32:57 »
if the 960 4gb costs something like 200-250,  then it's really not worth it.

might as well get the 970,  or the used 670 or 680

I wholeheartedly disagree. 970 is $100 more for very little performance gain. Used 670 is $50 to $70 less, but it's only 2GB and the TDP is much worse, so it uses more power, runs hotter and has lower performance...

The 960 4GB is the best price / performance / longevity / power / cooling sweetspot.

what are you talking about?



The 670 used is roughly $100, for 5383 passmark

The 960 (2gb crummy version) is $160-170, for , 5987 passmark

the 970 is $280,   for 8,647 passmark


the 670 is by far the Best bang for buck..



You do realize the 960 IS the 680 rebranded..

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 07 October 2015, 08:56:28 »
....

You do realize the 960 IS the 680 rebranded..

Um, nope. GTX680 is a GK104-400-A2. Kepler core, with 195 TDP. GTX960 is GM206. Maxwell core with 120 TDP... Different family, architecture, speeds, etc.

so... what are YOU talking about?

Where the heck to you get a used 670 for $100!?!?!?

A new 960 4GB is around $230, which is good for what you get. I couldn't find a 970 for less than $340, but I wasn't looking all that hard, so...
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Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 07 October 2015, 09:04:05 »
Also, the 960 has HEVC video decoding which the 670 and 970 don't. It's just a great card for a decent price and will last you a long time...

Relevant article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/nvidia-geforce-gtx-960,4038.html
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 07 October 2015, 16:01:46 »
....

You do realize the 960 IS the 680 rebranded..

Um, nope. GTX680 is a GK104-400-A2. Kepler core, with 195 TDP. GTX960 is GM206. Maxwell core with 120 TDP... Different family, architecture, speeds, etc.

so... what are YOU talking about?

Where the heck to you get a used 670 for $100!?!?!?

A new 960 4GB is around $230, which is good for what you get. I couldn't find a 970 for less than $340, but I wasn't looking all that hard, so...

Look at the damn numbers ,  the 680 is the same thing as the 960, the exact same damn thing..


H265?  freaking.. omg.. we're gonna be at least another year before we get content,

And if you HAVE a 4k monitor,  you don't need GPU acceleration because 1:1 scaling is very cheap computationally.


People only ever needed h264 acceleration because of scaling from 720p to xxxx resolution or from 1080p down to xxxx resolution.


Most people had no problem with 1:1

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #38 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 08:22:13 »
...

Look at the damn numbers ,  the 680 is the same thing as the 960, the exact same damn thing..


...

?????

GTX680: Kepler architecture, 3540 million transistors, 294mm2 die size , 256-bit bus, 1536:128:32 core config, 195 TDP
GTX960: Maxwell architecture, 2940 million transistors, 227mm2 die size, 128-bit bus, 1024:64:32 core config, 120 TDP

They may have similar performance in some tasks, but they're totally different chipsets and the 960 will handle new content better than the 680, both 2D and 3D.
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Offline Fire Brand

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #39 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 08:35:37 »
Unless you can find a 680 under $100 then the 960 is perfect

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Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #40 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 11:28:36 »
You are saying that a GTX960 outperforms a GTX670?

I am so out of this conversation. Enjoy whatever card you get.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #41 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 12:23:27 »
...

Look at the damn numbers ,  the 680 is the same thing as the 960, the exact same damn thing..


...

?????

GTX680: Kepler architecture, 3540 million transistors, 294mm2 die size , 256-bit bus, 1536:128:32 core config, 195 TDP
GTX960: Maxwell architecture, 2940 million transistors, 227mm2 die size, 128-bit bus, 1024:64:32 core config, 120 TDP

They may have similar performance in some tasks, but they're totally different chipsets and the 960 will handle new content better than the 680, both 2D and 3D.

No it will not handle new content better,  because there will NOT be any new content that's totally dependent on "new features"


Dx12 content is years away from being realized and mass marketed, it took at least 2 years before we saw anything good come from the switch to dx 10 from 9 , and at least another 3 years before we saw anything from going to 11

960 and 680 are the exact same cards..

If you measure the length width and height of any 2 things,  they're unique,

When I say they're the same,  I meant they did the same thing, virtually identical to each other.  This is confirmed by numerous benchmarks.

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #42 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 15:00:32 »
I was initially leaning ATI for what seemed sheer power and quality of design and execution, until I looked more closely at generations 6 and 7 and read or listened to descriptions of how poor drivers were occasionally crippling physically better/stronger cards in competition with nVidia. The 670 seemed very interesting, even the 660ti (a surprisingly strong card for 3 generations ago and the midshelf –60 position in it), even a cheap plain 660 OC with good cooling, but then I decided that I wasn't really only into the best bang for the buck for old games, I also wanted some real power. I forced myself to look at the difference as opposed to only looking at the price of the more expensive card (e.g. fraeaking over a $200 price tag while forgetting that the alternative didn't cost $0). The huge midshelf was really hard to assess and compare (Porter's 'stuck in the middle' for companies kinda comes to mind), the differences were so tiny etc., that I simply landed a somewhat unexpensive used Gigabyte 280X, the Battlefield version with the three-fan Windforce cooler.

I probably could have bought a bargain-priced 290X, given as someone unloaded like 8 of them over three weeks, but they all have reference cooling, which I remember a tester claiming was insufficient for that card. So I figured that no matter what it was gonna be expensive anyway, plus like $100 for aftermarket cooling (which might or might not suffice, and I really hate mounting an Accelero on a card's RAM/mosfets), and besides I couldn't know where those cards were from and those guys didn't answer my mail.

The 280X will cost me $168, but this is Poland, cards here are several dollars more expensive due to shipment and customs duties and VAT, then tech lag, perhaps an easier time marketing GPUs as exclusive products. A new one is more in the region of $238. For a smaller difference, I wouldn't have bothered, as being the first owner has its perks and so does a NIB product. Actually, this motivation was part of the reason I paid a couple of bucks more to get a 280X rather than 7970...

... and ended up buying just the card I wasn't really considering. And from ATI, whereas I'd really wanted to go with nVidia. But the problem is that higher-end older nVidias were unpredictable, and the owners wanted quite a lot of money for them in comparison. I'm checking right now, and a 680 is markedly more expensive than the 280X I bought, 670 can be had at about the same price... Which I probably should have bought in the end.

Yeah, the 670 probably could have been a better purchase. Or that $16 cheaper 760 with 3GB RAM.

Oh well, one can't call the 280X a bad card.

The plan now is that I'm gonna get that SSD and hope that my mobo/BIOS can be brought to obedience (RAM compatibility perhaps) so that I'm allowed to save BIOS settings without the 6-phase thing resetting them 10 seconds later. In which case I could squeeze a lot out of a lapped e8600 (E0) and Vitesta RAM sticks, too, in a new case with better cooling, so the computer would last me some 2 years maybe.

I would like to thank all of you guys here for the recommendations and especially for the support. It really was a very taxing experience, probably for no good reason other just my personality.
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 October 2015, 15:06:21 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline Oobly

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #43 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 15:15:40 »
OpenGL features are released all the time and graphics developers actively look for ways to get more performance from these features. You don't need to wait for DX-based content to start seeing the advantages of the newer architecture.

Features the 960 has that the 680 doesn't:
1. NVENC (HEVC encoding, support for H.264 encoding resolutions at 1440p/60FPS & 4K/60FPS),
2. Dynamic Super Resolution,
3. Third Generation Delta Color Compression,
4. Multi-Pixel Programming Sampling,
5. Nvidia VXGI (Real-Time-Voxel-Global Illumination),
6. VR Direct,
7. Multi-Projection Acceleration,
8. Multi-Frame Sampled Anti-Aliasing(MFAA),
9. HDMI 2.0 support,
10. Dynamic Parallelism,
11. HyperQ,
12. CUDA Compute Capability 5.2 (this is a nice one),
13. 4GB RAM.

If you think developers won't find uses for any of those in future, then stick with your old tech 680. Would you say a Radeon and a GTX are the "exact same cards" if they benchmark about the same? Staaaahp.. please.

And yes, a 960 will outperform 670.

Anyway, grats to the OP. Nice to see you sorted it out.
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it really hacks my wallet,
but I must have them.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #44 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 17:37:56 »
OpenGL features are released all the time and graphics developers actively look for ways to get more performance from these features. You don't need to wait for DX-based content to start seeing the advantages of the newer architecture.

Features the 960 has that the 680 doesn't:
1. NVENC (HEVC encoding, support for H.264 encoding resolutions at 1440p/60FPS & 4K/60FPS),
2. Dynamic Super Resolution,
3. Third Generation Delta Color Compression,
4. Multi-Pixel Programming Sampling,
5. Nvidia VXGI (Real-Time-Voxel-Global Illumination),
6. VR Direct,
7. Multi-Projection Acceleration,
8. Multi-Frame Sampled Anti-Aliasing(MFAA),
9. HDMI 2.0 support,
10. Dynamic Parallelism,
11. HyperQ,
12. CUDA Compute Capability 5.2 (this is a nice one),
13. 4GB RAM.


ALL USELESS (like when they put NKRO 1000hz usb on keyboards) 

This is the G4a3rs marketing schema ,  no developers will take advantage of any of those things


If you think developers won't find uses for any of those in future, then stick with your old tech 680. Would you say a Radeon and a GTX are the "exact same cards" if they benchmark about the same? Staaaahp.. please.

And yes, a 960 will outperform 670.

Anyway, grats to the OP. Nice to see you sorted it out.

The 960 will out perform the 670 by 10-15% at best,  Yet it costs MUCH more than 10% more money,  Dollar to performance is terrible,  AND ontop of which it's technically already obsolete..

Offline Snowdog993

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #45 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 17:43:35 »
The 960 will out perform the 670 by 10-15% at best,  Yet it costs MUCH more than 10% more money,  Dollar to performance is terrible,  AND ontop of which it's technically already obsolete..

Let's not forget bandwidth.  A 128-bit bandwidth card is going to outperform a 256-bit bandwidth card.
112 GB/sec vs 192 GB/sec and 2-way SLi vs 3-way SLi. 
Yeah.  I'm done.  Everyone else is an expert at desktop benchmarking.
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 October 2015, 17:52:00 by Snowdog993 »

Offline Badwrench

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #46 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 17:44:53 »
Glad you were able to find a card.  I would have recommended a 280X, but thought you were only looking at Nvidia.  I personally have one and it has been awesome.  Plays every game I want @ 1440p.   
wut. i'd buy a ****ty IBM board for that green V2

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #47 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 17:49:03 »
4GB RAM.

Both cards have 2GB by default and 4GB in certain non-reference models (there are also 670s with 4GB). I can be wrong, but would even expect the older nVidia to be somewhat better at handling the additional RAM due to the wider bus, 256bit (still not stellar in a high-end card with extra mem) vs 128, also 192GB/s vs 112GB/s bandwidth. The 4GB on the 960 could perhaps even be detrimental, given how 128 bits was deemed inadequate for extra memory back when extra memory meant 1GB vs 512MB (if not actually 512MB vs 256).

Quote
And yes, a 960 will outperform 670.

Wouldn't be sure about 2012–2013 games. The 960 has some cool stuff the 670 doesn't have, but the 670 is a stronger, sturdier build, and there are benchmarks showing more fps on it in games than on the 960 (Tomb Raider, Crisis 3, Metro, according to this; I apologize for the foreign language, scroll down a bit and 'kl/s' means fps).

Quote
Anyway, grats to the OP. Nice to see you sorted it out.

Thank you! I really hope I didn't screw up. I've just seen some game tests showing 600 GeForces give 7950 (same GPU type as the 280X) a handy beating in just the types of game I play (RPGs and strategies). :(

Offline NewbieOneKenobi

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 18:03:48 »
The 960 will out perform the 670 by 10-15% at best,  Yet it costs MUCH more than 10% more money,  Dollar to performance is terrible,  AND ontop of which it's technically already obsolete..

After two weeks of dissecting this stuff my impression tends to be that pretty much all GPUs are obsolete right now. ATI is firmly in 2012 with its repackaged Tahitis, essentially still in HD7--- era, which was just after HD6--- failed to beat HD5---, and I'm not sure the 5K series was as successful as the 4K series. Nvidia is probably selling a lot of those 900s, but the field seems to belong to series 6 and the series 7 that kinda seems to have happened in between.

nVidia's game is led by PCIE2 cards.

In both cases previous-gen cards, not always demoted too far down the line,  often prove superior to what the modern generation has to offer.

Glad you were able to find a card.  I would have recommended a 280X, but thought you were only looking at Nvidia.  I personally have one and it has been awesome.  Plays every game I want @ 1440p.   

Thank you. I have an old socket 775 system and DDR2 RAM@800MHz, so I won't be getting the same fps as people with modern boxes, but I'm looking forward to some full HD + ultra, hopefully.
« Last Edit: Thu, 08 October 2015, 18:19:25 by NewbieOneKenobi »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Need help picking new GFX card
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 08 October 2015, 23:59:21 »
The cards in your search range are all "obsolete"

But , within this Sphere ,  we can still optimize for price to performance.  And the 960 falls short, because of the bus, AND because it is a 3rd string build in terms of component quality (vrms, chokes, capacitors)

Whereas, MOST 670s are top notch builds with solid components