Author Topic: VE.A Discussion Thread  (Read 39653 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline zefyr

  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Republic of Korea
  • Oddforge
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #250 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 09:33:52 »
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.
ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline Data

  • Posts: 2606
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #251 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:22:27 »
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

I wouldn't worry too much about ergonomics.  We can get lost down a rabbit hole trying to chase ergonomics and that's not really the core point of VE.A, at least as far as I understand it.

Hand separation and horizontal (flat) tilt are just two of many factors for ergonomics, but they're significant factors that could contribute heavily to the user's typing experience.  Each user is different -- that's ergonomics in a nutshell.  So while VE.A doesn't go out of its way to embrace every crazy, obscure facet of keyboard ergonomics, it's certainly better than your typical one-piece keyboard.  And it might be a stepping stone for some people to explore further ergo-keyboard options down the road.

I guess what I'm saying is: you did great.  :P

Offline KetchyKech

  • Posts: 598
  • Location: New York
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #252 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 11:43:54 »
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

I wouldn't worry too much about ergonomics.  We can get lost down a rabbit hole trying to chase ergonomics and that's not really the core point of VE.A, at least as far as I understand it.

Hand separation and horizontal (flat) tilt are just two of many factors for ergonomics, but they're significant factors that could contribute heavily to the user's typing experience.  Each user is different -- that's ergonomics in a nutshell.  So while VE.A doesn't go out of its way to embrace every crazy, obscure facet of keyboard ergonomics, it's certainly better than your typical one-piece keyboard.  And it might be a stepping stone for some people to explore further ergo-keyboard options down the road.

I guess what I'm saying is: you did great.  :P

+1

It does more than "look cool" and I appreciate the work you did to achieve the aesthetic while having actual practicality   :thumb:
(((((((Octagon v2--JD45--VE:A--LZ Iron--Time TKL--TX1800v2)))))))

Offline tp4tissue

  • * Destiny Supporter
  • Posts: 12590
  • Location: Official Geekhack Public Defender..
  • OmniExpert of: Rice, Top-Ramen, Ergodox, n Females
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #253 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 15:35:47 »
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

Hello. Zeyfr,  I apologize if I've mistaken the construction of ur keyboard..

I was only looking at the fotos on massdrop.. Particular this one below..

It looks like laser cut marks, I've never seen such an uneven finish from a CNC cut part before.

137358-0


As for the Ergonomic aspect..

I suppose the Tilting can be rectified by building in some way for the users to Increase and alter the MULTI-Axis Tilt angle of the keyboard more easily


The Ergodox has many m3 size screw holes in the RIGHT PLACES by coincidence.. 

Perhaps punching a few extra holes in your stand will rectify this short coming.'


As for the layout.. sigh....   well, it is what it is....  I can only describe it as throwing good money after bad,  If you are unfamiliar with this term, here is the explanation..

(http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+good+money+after+bad)


People buy into a platform, ansi keycaps, which is Not an ergonomic layout by any means and they feel compelled to continue ...  because leaving Ansi, would mean dropping a large previous investment..


But as a prospective ERGONOMICS entrant,   Ask yourself, 

WHY are you getting an ergonomic keyboard..  ??
WHAT is important about an ergonomics keyboard..  ??



This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


A keyboard that knows many tricks, but is master of none....

Offline zefyr

  • Posts: 330
  • Location: Republic of Korea
  • Oddforge
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #254 on: Tue, 17 May 2016, 21:30:23 »
I feel like I have to explain things.
(Man... this is hard...)

Most of all, there is no acrylic laser cut part in VE.A. (Why somebody thinks there's one? I have no idea.)

And I didn't get a major nor masters degree about ergonomics technology. I'm just a custom keyboard hobbyist.
So, this is what I can do and where I was going for.
Yes I have to admit what I designed is not "true ergonomic keyboard".
but I feel comfortable with this form and I think that's a factor being ergonomic.

Thanks your highly visioned opinion about my work and your thoughtful, warm words.

Hello. Zeyfr,  I apologize if I've mistaken the construction of ur keyboard..

I was only looking at the fotos on massdrop.. Particular this one below..

It looks like laser cut marks, I've never seen such an uneven finish from a CNC cut part before.

(Attachment Link)


As for the Ergonomic aspect..

I suppose the Tilting can be rectified by building in some way for the users to Increase and alter the MULTI-Axis Tilt angle of the keyboard more easily


The Ergodox has many m3 size screw holes in the RIGHT PLACES by coincidence.. 

Perhaps punching a few extra holes in your stand will rectify this short coming.'


As for the layout.. sigh....   well, it is what it is....  I can only describe it as throwing good money after bad,  If you are unfamiliar with this term, here is the explanation..

(http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/throw+good+money+after+bad)


People buy into a platform, ansi keycaps, which is Not an ergonomic layout by any means and they feel compelled to continue ...  because leaving Ansi, would mean dropping a large previous investment..


But as a prospective ERGONOMICS entrant,   Ask yourself, 

WHY are you getting an ergonomic keyboard..  ??
WHAT is important about an ergonomics keyboard..  ??



This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


A keyboard that knows many tricks, but is master of none....

Yes, that photo looks like it :) I know

There's some trade-off for that,

When it comes to poly-carbonate, it's a bit hard to make smooth surface, it can be but price will go up higher (much higher)

And I decided not to go up there, cause that surface will be almost hidden when LED lit up and it's already damn-hell-pricy just for a keyboard.

I am very comfortable with this keyboard as is. I used this layout for a long time, almost 19~20 years now, from first MS natural keyboard.

I tried ErgoDox, Kinesis Contoured, Vertical and so on. Each one has really great ergonomics features and that was GREAT!!!

I'm gonna satisfy with what I made, it just suits me. I don't have any needs to move on to any others.

But this is my first trial on 3D designed keyboard case. I didn't take any class or education for design things.

I don't have enough skill to make another (like contoured curves) features :)

I did what I can do, people thinks my works are usable, they requested to share it.

That's why I share my work with people, and to be honest, I can gain some fame and sampling cost back from it :) (I'm using two almost 700USD worth keyboard but that doesn't mean that I'm rich. I just love it.)

You know that's cool :) and addictive.

Thanks for your interesting and effort on ergonomics, plus advice :)

I wish I can make better thing in the future.
ZeFyr "Vermillion" J.

Vergo type.T / alpetit / alpetit II / VE.A with Vergo type.T-II

Offline Data

  • Posts: 2606
  • Location: Orlando, FL
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #255 on: Wed, 18 May 2016, 08:04:35 »

This is not a rabbit hole,  there are some long Tested design philosophies..


No, it absolutely is a rabbit hole, and you've proven it quite nicely with this post.  Thank you.

Hand separation (1) and horizontal tilting (2) are both ergonomic improvements over the standard flat/staggered keyboard.  It's maybe not ergonomic enough for you, and that's fine.  But it's a lot better than nothing.  It's working for Microsoft.

The reason it's a rabbit hole is that someone (like you!) will claim that it's not ergonomic without multi-axis tilting.  OK, so we add that, but then someone else will inevitably come along and say that it's not ergonomic without a deeply-curved profile ( la Maltron).  Then a 3rd person will say it's not ergonomic without an adjustable thumb cluster.  And on and on, deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole.

How do I know this?  Because it happens every damn time the discussion dips a toe into ergonomics.  It's comically predictable.  And here we are, continuing the tradition.   ;)

Offline xondat

  • i'm not a star
  • * Maker
  • Thread Starter
  • Posts: 5220
  • Location: United Kingdom
Re: VE.A Discussion Thread
« Reply #256 on: Fri, 03 June 2016, 02:23:47 »
Please see this thread regarding the VE.A:

https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=82509.0

I've locked this thread to keep discussion in one place.