Crisis of faith regarding preferred quiet keyboard switch

[vivalarevolución]

Greetings boys and girls, I am currently having a crisis of faith regarding my favorite keyboard switch and I must seek your advice.  For years I have been preaching from the alter of Alps/Matias as a superior tactile alternative to Cherry switches.  I believe that many aspects of Alps/Matias make them a superior typing experience to stock offerings from Cherry.  I don't have to swap/lube/sticker/tune/trim/lick/whatever to have an optimized typing experience with Alps/Matias, they feel great out of the box.  The actuation point and force are near ideal, and the force decreases rather than increase after actuation.  In situations that buckling spring or beam spring are not ideal, such as workplaces or late at night, I quietly practice my devotion to Alps/Matias.

During this time, I have not attended regular services at the Church of Topre.  My initial services at the Church of Topre led me to conclude that Topre are overrated, overpriced rubber domes that result in too much bottoming out.  I understand how many are devoted followers of Topre, but it is not for me.

But another Topre clone entered the market, and I was intrigued.  A compact TKL layout and ultralight 35g switches.   I always have enjoyed light, tactile switches, so I bought for less than $100 shipped just to take it for a ride.

The keyboard arrived in the mail yesterday, and I've had an epiphany of sorts.  The extremely light switches with a slight bit of tactility are allowing me to fly over the keys with less finger fatigue.  The metal plate underneath gives strong, sturdy feedback.   My beloved Matias Quiet tactile feel oppressively heavy in comparison, even when backed by a thick metal plate and metal case.  And DO NOT get me started on keycap compatibility issues.  Uugghh.

My faith in Matias Quiet as the chosen quiet switch is being shaken by a discount Topre knock off.  I'm considering a switch to these 35g Topre clones as my quiet switch of choice.  Please, friends, help me in this time of trouble.  What shall I do?  What experiences do you have to share?  Should I stop resisting the inevitable and convert to the Church of Topre?

[SpAmRaY]

Your making me want to try this thing out.

And yes embrace the oneness with cup rubber.

[quasistellar]

I don't know about 35g Topre, but I find 45g to be perfect for me at work. At home, I game on my PC, and I don't like Topre in that scenario. Romer-G is serving me very well in that regard, but I'm always searching for something better. For instance, the G410 is unnecessarily large for a TKL, so I've got an infinity with quiet clicks coming to try out.

I guess what I'm saying is: for pure typing, you can't beat Topre, unless you really must have the noisy clicks of other switches.

I don't think I could live with JUST Topre, though.

[njbair]

I bought a Noppoo EC108-Pro about a year ago. It looks like it's definitely the same OEM as your Topre clone. I ordered the 45g from Massdrop, but interestingly the box it arrived in said 40g. Anyway, still very light when compared to most of the switches I use.

I have to agree that the light, tactile Topre clones feel pretty nice, but I don't like them at all with aftermarket keycaps. I put GMKs on there (Triumph Adler looks really cool against the white case), and it just feels mushy. The stock caps (I'm told it's a PBT/POM mixture?) are made for that board.

So before you run off and join the cult, try the board with some aftermarket caps.

[vivalarevolución]

I bought a Noppoo EC108-Pro about a year ago. It looks like it's definitely the same OEM as your Topre clone. I ordered the 45g from Massdrop, but interestingly the box it arrived in said 40g. Anyway, still very light when compared to most of the switches I use.

I have to agree that the light, tactile Topre clones feel pretty nice, but I don't like them at all with aftermarket keycaps. I put GMKs on there (Triumph Adler looks really cool against the white case), and it just feels mushy. The stock caps (I'm told it's a PBT/POM mixture?) are made for that board.

So before you run off and join the cult, try the board with some aftermarket caps.

I read your reviews of that keyboard earlier today.  Thanks for those.

Well, I know the weight of the keycaps will affect the feel.  If the keycaps are any heavier, like some thick GMK doubleshots or PBT, the switches may develop that mushy feeling.  And I only have one set of Cherry keycaps left, we'll see how those work.

[xtrafrood]

Man, seriously? Another Topre like switch with Cherry MX sliders and RGB backlight? Yesterday I thought Nova Touch was the only Topre with Cherry MX sliders. I also thought Topre backlight was impossible. now I know of the Nappoo, Plum and Royal Kludge RC930-87. Two of those previously mentioned options have RGB backlighting, and all three have Cherry MX sliders 

I'll continue to read the bible. One day I will be Baptized in Topre's holy glow

[jacobolus]

I’m not a fan of Topre or other rubber dome switches. E.g. I like Apple scissor keyboards better.

If you want some upstroke snap to help you type, I recommend Alps plate spring. But hey, everyone has their own preferences, YMMV, and all that.

[rowdy]

35g sounds way too light for me.  I can tolerate HHKB's 45g, but I suspect I would prefer a 55g RealForce.

But it's Topre (or close enough to it) - try it and see what you think!

[Capnmycraw]

Greetings boys and girls, I am currently having a crisis of faith regarding my favorite keyboard switch and I must seek your advice.  For years I have been preaching from the alter of Alps/Matias as a superior tactile alternative to Cherry switches.  I believe that many aspects of Alps/Matias make them a superior typing experience to stock offerings from Cherry.  I don't have to swap/lube/sticker/tune/trim/lick/whatever to have an optimized typing experience with Alps/Matias, they feel great out of the box.  The actuation point and force are near ideal, and the force decreases rather than increase after actuation.  In situations that buckling spring or beam spring are not ideal, such as workplaces or late at night, I quietly practice my devotion to Alps/Matias.

During this time, I have not attended regular services at the Church of Topre.  My initial services at the Church of Topre led me to conclude that Topre are overrated, overpriced rubber domes that result in too much bottoming out.  I understand how many are devoted followers of Topre, but it is not for me.

But another Topre clone entered the market, and I was intrigued.  A compact TKL layout and ultralight 35g switches.   I always have enjoyed light, tactile switches, so I bought for less than $100 shipped just to take it for a ride.

The keyboard arrived in the mail yesterday, and I've had an epiphany of sorts.  The extremely light switches with a slight bit of tactility are allowing me to fly over the keys with less finger fatigue.  The metal plate underneath gives strong, sturdy feedback.   My beloved Matias Quiet tactile feel oppressively heavy in comparison, even when backed by a thick metal plate and metal case.  And DO NOT get me started on keycap compatibility issues.  Uugghh.

My faith in Matias Quiet as the chosen quiet switch is being shaken by a discount Topre knock off.  I'm considering a switch to these 35g Topre clones as my quiet switch of choice.  Please, friends, help me in this time of trouble.  What shall I do?  What experiences do you have to share?  Should I stop resisting the inevitable and convert to the Church of Topre?

Where did you buy it?

[vivalarevolución]

Man, seriously? Another Topre like switch with Cherry MX sliders and RGB backlight? Yesterday I thought Nova Touch was the only Topre with Cherry MX sliders. I also thought Topre backlight was impossible. now I know of the Nappoo, Plum and Royal Kludge RC930-87. Two of those previously mentioned options have RGB backlighting, and all three have Cherry MX sliders 

I'll continue to read the bible. One day I will be Baptized in Topre's holy glow

To my knowledge, Royal Kludge, Noppoo, and Plum Topre clones all have the same OEM, which is why they all seem so similar. 

35g sounds way too light for me.  I can tolerate HHKB's 45g, but I suspect I would prefer a 55g RealForce.

But it's Topre (or close enough to it) - try it and see what you think!

I've had experience using other Topre switches, and owned a HHKB for a short while, but those didn't appeal to me like this 35g switch does.  I also did not like the lack of metal plate on the HHKB. 

I’m not a fan of Topre or other rubber dome switches. E.g. I like Apple scissor keyboards better.

If you want some upstroke snap to help you type, I recommend Alps plate spring. But hey, everyone has their own preferences, YMMV, and all that.

Interesting switch.  I've intentionally resisted buying more vintage boards as a way to allocate my time and money, but the curiosity to try them out never goes away.  Perhaps we could badger Haata to turn his collection into a museum.

I think the main appeal of this Plum84 is the light switch, rather than the upstroke.  I get plenty of upstroke from buckling spring and beam spring.

[vivalarevolución]

You can buy it on aliexpress or taobao.  Also, just search Plum 84 keyboard and some other Chinese marketplaces pop up.

[chyros]

Personally, I'd say Topre is much better than dampened Matias switches. And I agree, Alps are better than Cherries. Not just tactile ones though, the linear and clicky ones are also better.

[xtrafrood]

Man, seriously? Another Topre like switch with Cherry MX sliders and RGB backlight? Yesterday I thought Nova Touch was the only Topre with Cherry MX sliders. I also thought Topre backlight was impossible. now I know of the Nappoo, Plum and Royal Kludge RC930-87. Two of those previously mentioned options have RGB backlighting, and all three have Cherry MX sliders 

I'll continue to read the bible. One day I will be Baptized in Topre's holy glow

To my knowledge, Royal Kludge, Noppoo, and Plum Topre clones all have the same OEM, which is why they all seem so similar. 

35g sounds way too light for me.  I can tolerate HHKB's 45g, but I suspect I would prefer a 55g RealForce.

But it's Topre (or close enough to it) - try it and see what you think!

I've had experience using other Topre switches, and owned a HHKB for a short while, but those didn't appeal to me like this 35g switch does.  I also did not like the lack of metal plate on the HHKB. 

I’m not a fan of Topre or other rubber dome switches. E.g. I like Apple scissor keyboards better.

If you want some upstroke snap to help you type, I recommend Alps plate spring. But hey, everyone has their own preferences, YMMV, and all that.

Interesting switch.  I've intentionally resisted buying more vintage boards as a way to allocate my time and money, but the curiosity to try them out never goes away.  Perhaps we could badger Haata to turn his collection into a museum.

I think the main appeal of this Plum84 is the light switch, rather than the upstroke.  I get plenty of upstroke from buckling spring and beam spring.

The same OEM? That clears up my initial confusion 

[vivalarevolución]

Personally, I'd say Topre is much better than dampened Matias switches. And I agree, Alps are better than Cherries. Not just tactile ones though, the linear and clicky ones are also better.

That's the beauty of religion, it is an eternal debate.

[apolotary]

Can you make a typing video of it please? And post some photos if possible

[LiquidEvilGaming]

All about that Oneness with the Cup of rubber.

 

[Rad]

The key caps on HHKBs are the bomb-diggity. They're hard plastic, but soft to the touch. What has science done?!

[childofthehorn]

The price on these went down and.... I bought one.

and a Leopold FC660C from a friend. Might see about trading it for a HHKB though.

[vivalarevolución]

Can you make a typing video of it please? And post some photos if possible

I've been meaning to do a review of the keyboards I've mentioned, but simply have not allocated the time.

[dante]

OP: It has been a little over a month.  Are you still in crisis?

[tp4tissue]

This entire time, I've been trying to tells you guys there's really nothing Magical about Topre, and that it's rubber dome..

Now you see...  $200 is foolish...

[dante]

This entire time, I've been trying to tells you guys there's really nothing Magical about Topre, and that it's rubber dome..

Now you see...  $200 is foolish...

As a fan of rubber domes I find your comments offensive.  Rubberdomes > Topre.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

Topre Master Race > Buckling Springs > Alps > Gaterons > Cherry MX toys > Kailh/others

Cherry just feels like a plastic toy after joining the church of Topre....even with all the love i had for MX Browns i now find it difficult to use them for any extended periods of time anymore...Nor my MX blues for that matter.


All Hail to the Cup Rubber...blessings be thy Oneness

Forgive the heathens they know not what they do.

[Bucake]

i only appreciate topre more after going back to some cheap compaq ABS membrane rubber dome keyboard. a type-s 45g hhkb is my daily, and i'm starting to think that that might not change. kinda sad, but also kinda cool!
however i can't imagine anything lighter than 45g would be nice to type on. i think i'd rather see plate-mounted ~50g topre in a 60%

i respect the IBM Model Fs i have but they rarely see use anymore :-( one "issue" is that i game almost every day, if only ~30 mins, and the IBM keyboards are just too big and too loud when i game.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

i only appreciate topre more after going back to some cheap compaq ABS membrane rubber dome keyboard. a type-s 45g hhkb is my daily, and i'm starting to think that that might not change. kinda sad, but also kinda cool!
however i can't imagine anything lighter than 45g would be nice to type on. i think i'd rather see plate-mounted ~50g topre in a 60%

i respect the IBM Model Fs i have but they rarely see use anymore :-( one "issue" is that i game almost every day, if only ~30 mins, and the IBM keyboards are just too big and too loud when i game.

Ah see the case mounting of the HHKB is what i think gives it such a unique sound and feel, IMO i actually prefer it to the feel of plate mounting when i had the 55G RF.

[Bucake]

you're right about its unique-ness, but i feel the same way about the plate-mounted RF, which has its own feel and sound as well.
though for me, 55g is just a bit too heavy for extended periods, and 45g is just a tad too light.
and although the "personality" of the hhkb is very likable, i can just respect the one of the RF a bit more :-)
but +10 points for 60% and +100 for hasu's controller, which is why the hhkb is my daily.

i think a mix of the two boards could be my end-game, but neither the hhkb or the RF gives me that ultimate satisfaction right now

[dante]

"I don't like rubberdomes - (this) feels better than rubberdomes"

You know there are literally hundreds of different kinds of rubberdomes out there - all with different build characteristics, right?

[Macsmasher]

Since you like lighter switches (me too), you wouldn't go wrong with a RF 87U variable. It's my favorite keyboard.

[vivalarevolución]

OP: It has been a little over a month.  Are you still in crisis?

Somewhat.  I want to use a Matias Quiet keyboard for a little to see how I feel after returning to them.  However, my interest has been piqued in trying more Topre and Topre clones.  While I cannot resist the comparison to rubber dome, they have a much more quality feel after switching between the Plum 84 and various rubber domes.

Since you like lighter switches (me too), you wouldn't go wrong with a RF 87U variable. It's my favorite keyboard.

Please, don't tempt me.

[Polymer]

While I cannot resist the comparison to rubber dome, they have a much more quality feel after switching between the Plum 84 and various rubber domes.

They have a rubber dome though..but so what?  I'm sure you've already found that they do not feel like any normal rubber dome keyboard...there is this stability and solidness that you just don't get from normal rubber domes.  Since they actuate before hitting bottom (and don't even require hitting bottom) they have this slightly better responsiveness....They just feel/sound great...

[vivalarevolución]

While I cannot resist the comparison to rubber dome, they have a much more quality feel after switching between the Plum 84 and various rubber domes.

They have a rubber dome though..but so what?  I'm sure you've already found that they do not feel like any normal rubber dome keyboard...there is this stability and solidness that you just don't get from normal rubber domes.  Since they actuate before hitting bottom (and don't even require hitting bottom) they have this slightly better responsiveness....They just feel/sound great...

Good point.  Probably best to appreciate the keyboard for what it is.

[Bucake]

i think the way they designed the slider and housing also contributes a lot to how smooth they feel and perform. probably used good tooling/plastic as well?
for "fun" i took out an old ABS membrane rubber dome keyboard, and everything is squeeking, there's friction and sound and rattling everywhere, wobbling.. not to mention the mushy feel, damn.
it's certainly not just the actual dome that makes topre keyboards feel so nice.

tbh i liked going back and forth a bit because it makes you see (again) how nice these keyboards actually are. i know topre boards are really expensive, but it was so worth it for me.

[LiquidEvilGaming]

i think the way they designed the slider and housing also contributes a lot to how smooth they feel and perform. probably used good tooling/plastic as well?
for "fun" i took out an old ABS membrane rubber dome keyboard, and everything is squeeking, there's friction and sound and rattling everywhere, wobbling.. not to mention the mushy feel, damn.
it's certainly not just the actual dome that makes topre keyboards feel so nice.

tbh i liked going back and forth a bit because it makes you see (again) how nice these keyboards actually are. i know topre boards are really expensive, but it was so worth it for me.

Took the words from my mouth, I have several keyboards at my disposal and every once in awhile i pull out one of my MX Browns boards which is my favorite MX switch or when i travel since the iPad can not power the HHKB but can power the pok3r i use my MX blues poker for travel...They don't feel awful or anything and i still appreciate them for what they are..BUT when i go back to my HHKB it reminds me truly how much better it actually feels compared to any other switch i own or have owned previously.  I can still appreciate other switch types and i still have a very nostalgic love for Buckling spring from when i was younger but i always find myself coming back to the HHKB since i bought into the board.

[childofthehorn]

Good point.  Probably best to appreciate the keyboard for what it is.

Well I picked one of these P)lum84 keyboards up and am typing on it currently. I had also recently acquired a Leopold 660c , but the two feel very different. The leopold being the more tactile of the two and the actuation point being lower on the Leopold for the dome snap.

Honestly, the plum84 is a wonderfully built board and bit of kit for the price. Build is better than the Royal Kludge RC930 topre clones by a mile.

They come with Cherry Profile, thick PBT Dyesub keycaps with a medium texture to them and not too much shine through. Switch tops are fully clear, unlike the Noppoo and RK capcitives, though I believe that this is also made by the same group.

Really wish that the case was an island style case though.

Oh, and these include the silencer rings normally found on the HHKB Type-S. Really a wonderful thock sound on these and while 35g might be a little liht for me, its a nice change of pace for when I am typing a bunch and learning to be more accurate with my typing. Wish there were more keyboards in this layout though everything just see,s well thought out and the 5x spacebar is really not a thing.

Forgot to say that teh Damped Alps/ Matias QC might be my most favorite switch ever.... but keycap compatibility is just terrible.

[xtrafrood]

Good point.  Probably best to appreciate the keyboard for what it is.

Well I picked one of these P)lum84 keyboards up and am typing on it currently. I had also recently acquired a Leopold 660c , but the two feel very different. The leopold being the more tactile of the two and the actuation point being lower on the Leopold for the dome snap.

Honestly, the plum84 is a wonderfully built board and bit of kit for the price. Build is better than the Royal Kludge RC930 topre clones by a mile.

They come with Cherry Profile, thick PBT Dyesub keycaps with a medium texture to them and not too much shine through. Switch tops are fully clear, unlike the Noppoo and RK capcitives, though I believe that this is also made by the same group.

Really wish that the case was an island style case though.

Oh, and these include the silencer rings normally found on the HHKB Type-S. Really a wonderful thock sound on these and while 35g might be a little liht for me, its a nice change of pace for when I am typing a bunch and learning to be more accurate with my typing. Wish there were more keyboards in this layout though everything just see,s well thought out and the 5x spacebar is really not a thing.

Forgot to say that teh Damped Alps/ Matias QC might be my most favorite switch ever.... but keycap compatibility is just terrible.

So the Plum84 is better than the RK topre clone keyboard? Yea I thought most of the clone keyboards were designed by the same company. I wonder why I see the RK more often. The Plum84 seems like one of those keyboards that are difficult to find in stock for us American types.

Either way, I've yet to read any reports of a topre clone that matches real Topre switch quality. I would probably buy an alps board instead of a topre clone keyboard tbh

[vivalarevolución]

I think they just used the case for the wireless Noppoo Choc Mini.  There is a slot on back for batteries, but there are not any positive or negative contacts in that slot.  The keycaps also are decent enough, I feel no need to replace them at this point.

@childofthehorn, have you opened up the switches to very that the silencers are in there, or can you just tell by using the keyboard?  I never used a silence Topre board, so I don't know.  I have been meaning to take the keyboard home to open up, but keep forgetting.

And how do you have any more thoughts on the feel between the Leopold FC660C and the Plum 84?  I am considering buying a Leopold FC660C.

[Polymer]

for "fun" i took out an old ABS membrane rubber dome keyboard, and everything is squeeking, there's friction and sound and rattling everywhere, wobbling.. not to mention the mushy feel, damn.
it's certainly not just the actual dome that makes topre keyboards feel so nice.

Exactly...Even MX boards are wobbly although less so than most rubber dome board...but they're solid and stable when pressing down and solid when you hit bottom....With Topre you don't have the wobble..the mush..it feels solid, smooth, responsive..there is just a huge quality difference and of course, the sound.

I've found a few rubber dome keyboards that were pretty good overall..quite solid..and certainly and I can understand why people make the comparison..but Topre is Topre...

[dante]

I am considering buying a Leopold FC660C.

I had a 2nd gen/later date FC660C for a few days and it was okay ... I didn't fall in love with it.  My biggest concern was the detachable hub.  Someone on Rededit (can't find the post) stated that someone in Asia broke their hub and the repair center said they had seen a lot of them with only a 50% successful repair rate.  Consequently a few dealers stopped carrying this model.

When I bought mine from EK I mentioned to Brian that my USB connector was a little loose (it moved ever so slightly) but was still functional.  In his eyes he viewed it as ok but I still returned it anyway.  For $190 or whatever it was at the time - I demanded better.

I purchased it because at least in theory it should be more intuitive than the HHKB but I'm not so sure now.

Regarding the Royal Kludge; I haven't tried the PLUM or Noppoo variants of the electro capactive but I didn't have any build issues with mine (had both 45g, 55g.)  When I bought a Real Force I asked myself where did the money go?  Where as on the Royal Kludge I felt like I got more than my moneys worth.

If I had a top 3/5 list of keyboards I most regret buying/selling quickly it would be the RC930 45g.

[childofthehorn]

And how do you have any more thoughts on the feel between the Leopold FC660C and the Plum 84?  I am considering buying a Leopold FC660C.

The case is my least favorite part and something I may just design a new one for and 3D print or mill one out.

Yeah you can see the bands on the sliders since the switch tops are totally clear.

Comparing to the Leopold.....

The Leopold is built better, IMO better build than even the HHKB and its heaver. the feet on the Plum84 are better overall in snappyness and sturdyness, but only marginally.
I much prefer the keycaps on the Plum84 to the OEM profile on the Leopold (even with replacing with a PBT spacebar) as I just hate padprinting.

Feel:
Leopold is better overall, the domes are much snappier and feels like a tiny realforce.
RK boards tend to reverb through the whole board while typing when I used one. Leopold is better than the RK in terms of feel, even if both are 45g.
Right now, I am honestly hoping that the Plum84 people would have made the plum84 RGB in 45g as i think that would just be about perfect for how I type.

Plum84 35g vs RK 45g
IMO the plum84 actuates at a much higher point and doesn't feel quite as scratchy as the RK does. I don't know if its better parts or what, but despite using clear plastic, its less scratchy.

I find that it interesting that the RK930c and the Plum84 weigh exactly the same despite the RK being a significantly enough bigger board. I am guessing that the plate used is not as thick and the same could be likely said of the plastic used on the case. The RK is by no means a bad board, but I do think it needs some break in before its just right if you catch my drift and honestly for the same money if not wanting the backlighting I would get the novatouch as it just generally feels nicer.


This just solidifies that we need to find a way to get the topre individual switches and be able to make some fully programmable topre boards as that element alone is just driving me nuts, I NEEED some of my key binding and macros as well as function layers beyond just one now.

[vivalarevolución]

Thanks for the info.  I think a switch comparison of the Leopold vs. Plum 84 is somewhat apples to oranges, because of the differences in weighting.  If there is a 45g Plum 84, that would make for any interesting comparison with the rest of the Topre and Topre clone world.  Anyways, your thoughts were helpful, thanks.

[dante]

I wish the PLUM 84 35g was available at MechnicalKeyboards.com; I get a pit in my stomach thinking of signing up for Aliexpress......

[jcoffin1981]

I too have tried heavier and lighter keycaps and MUCH prefer the lighter ones.  You may like the feel of Gateron Browns.  They are very very different from Cherry Browns.  Even though they are both rated at 45 gf, the Gaterons are considerably lighter.  When I go back to Cherry they feel stiff and scratchy.  Gateron also makes a clear switch rated at 35 gf, but that may be too light for me.  Top it off with premium keycaps and it feels great.  It's not going to be as quiet as your Matias, but subjectively they are quieter than Cherry Browns.

[vivalarevolución]

Yea, I have considered those Gateron switches.  But any sort of Cherry or Cherry clones switches are basically at the bottom of my switch preferences.  I prefer the feel of buckling spring, Alps/Matias, and now Topre or Topre clones, for a variety of reasons.

[gohono3]

I really enjoy the feel of buckling springs (model F specifically), and the matias tactile switches. Finger fatigue has been an issue in the way of using those switches as a primary driver for me personally.

HHKB's 45g feels perfect though and I enjoyed the Type-S even more.  I still prefer cherry brown/red for gaming as I play mostly shooters.

[vivalarevolución]

So the Plum84 is better than the RK topre clone keyboard? Yea I thought most of the clone keyboards were designed by the same company. I wonder why I see the RK more often. The Plum84 seems like one of those keyboards that are difficult to find in stock for us American types.

Either way, I've yet to read any reports of a topre clone that matches real Topre switch quality. I would probably buy an alps board instead of a topre clone keyboard tbh

I have a Realforce 23U numberpad in the mail that should arrive next week.  That will be a great way to compare the Topre with these Plum switches.

[dante]

So the Plum84 is better than the RK topre clone keyboard? Yea I thought most of the clone keyboards were designed by the same company. I wonder why I see the RK more often. The Plum84 seems like one of those keyboards that are difficult to find in stock for us American types.

Either way, I've yet to read any reports of a topre clone that matches real Topre switch quality. I would probably buy an alps board instead of a topre clone keyboard tbh

I have a Realforce 23U numberpad in the mail that should arrive next week.  That will be a great way to compare the Topre with these Plum switches.

I am very much looking forward to reading your comparison!  Please post here!

[vivalarevolución]

So the Plum84 is better than the RK topre clone keyboard? Yea I thought most of the clone keyboards were designed by the same company. I wonder why I see the RK more often. The Plum84 seems like one of those keyboards that are difficult to find in stock for us American types.

Either way, I've yet to read any reports of a topre clone that matches real Topre switch quality. I would probably buy an alps board instead of a topre clone keyboard tbh

I have a Realforce 23U numberpad in the mail that should arrive next week.  That will be a great way to compare the Topre with these Plum switches.

I am very much looking forward to reading your comparison!  Please post here!

I did just play with someone else's Novatouch for a short while.  Very different feel than this Plum 84, noticeably heavier and mushier.  Definitely not down my alley.

On another note, I did take apart my Plum 84 to take a look at the innards. Looks like a typical electrostatic capacitive keyboard.  The soldering of the LEDs looks a little sloppy.  The controller is separate from the PCB, I'm wondering if it can be replaced.  And hopefully it still works when I put it back together.

[Anole]

Why not enjoy both Matias and Topre? 

[vivalarevolución]

Why not enjoy both Matias and Topre? 

I prefer absolutes in my keyboard game, in order to prevent purchasing everything in sight.

[vivalarevolución]

Realforce 23UB with 45g domes arrived in the mail today and I was able to compare it side by side with the Plum 84.  First of all, my rudimentary coin test of the Realforce 23UB found the actuation force to be about 52-55g, not 45g.  That was expected, from what I have read about the weighting of Realforce domes. 

Next, the Realforce 45g has more tactility and snappier, feels a bit smoother, and has better quality construction.  The lightness of the Plum 84 35g domes is very noticeable when next to the Realforce.  I am not sure which weighting I prefer more, but the Plum 84 35g definitely has a more distinctive feel.

I opened up the Plum 84 this weekend and confirmed that it has the silencing rings.  When next to the Realforce 23UB, the Plum 84 definitely is quieter, so those silencing rings are doing their job.  The Plum 84 also has a controller that is separate from the PCB and contacted via a ribbon cable, so I'm wondering if that can be replaced, similar to the HHKB.  I don't know everything that goes into replacing a stock controller.

Overall, the comparison is about what I expected, not too many surprises.  Each keyboard has their strengths/weaknesses, really depends on what you prefer.  I don't think the super light Topre and Topre clones switches are for everyone, I'm wondering if it can become a sub-cult of the cult.