Author Topic: Gas mileage in my new for me car.  (Read 4621 times)

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Offline Melvang

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Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« on: Wed, 13 July 2016, 21:54:27 »
Well my buick has finally kicked the bucket.  I had to have a car so last Friday, I finalized the deal and bought a 99 Chrysler LHS.  I did go backward 3 years on the model year for the car.  But there is a good reason for it.  The car only had 57,600 miles on it when I purchased the car.  That is not a typo, it is not supposed to be 157k, but just shy of 58k miles.

So, Monday, I had to drive 2 hours over almost constant rolling hills on two lane black top county roads to work.  This is with my 230 pounds of personal tools I have to take with me to almost every job.  This thread is just to provide some insight that you don't need to spend a ton of money on a brand new foreign import to get affordable gas mileage.

I paid $5,970 for the car out the door.  Yes the car is well over NADA book value, but for my car, going from 130k miles to 60k miles only adds $500 to the value of the car.  Realistically, I got the car for a good price.  So here is how my mileage is doing so far.  All mileage figures are as reported by the in car fuel mileage thing in the computer.  Even if it isn't accurate, this will show how weight and speed effect mileage.

2 hours over rolling hills with 230 pounds of tools in the trunk - rough average outside of a couple small towns that only had one stop each 62 mph - reported mileage 27.1
1.5 hours very flat 4 lane highway, same tools cruise set to 73 - reported mileage 27.5
1.5 hours return trip cruise set to solid 65 - reported mileage 31
Tomorrow morning I will be heading back to work on the same route as the 1.5 hour trip, except I will be omitting my tools and speed will be at 65.  Remember only change one thing at a time, otherwise you don't know which variable made the change.  So far all tests have been done with 87 octane, 5% ethenol blend, the car is a 1999 Chrysler LHS with the high output 3.5L V6.

After work I will need to fill up to make it all the way home, at this point I will fill up with 91 octane, not sure on thenol blend as I don't know exactly what the gas stations have in that area.

Yes, there are cars out that get better mileage on the highway, and much better in town.  But this is a full size, 4 door sedan, that has a curb weight of 3,600 pounds, that I paid less than $6,000 for out the door.  My first car out of the Navy was a 99 Buick Le Saber that could get 34 mpg down the highway, and I paid $3,500 for that car.  You have to ask yourself, to gain 5-10 mpg, how long is that going to take to pay for the extra cost in buying a much newer car, and paying that much more in car insurance.
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #1 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 07:14:19 »
Your gallons are smaller than ours, so that seems like maybe 35-40 UK MPG? That's pretty good, especially if it's petrol and not diesel.

Next you have to look at how reliable it is. I'm not that au fait with American cars so I don't know how good Chryslers are (I've never seen an LHS in my life) but I would be happy with that mpg.
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Offline nugglets

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #2 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 07:41:38 »
There are a lot of things that effect gas mileage. Unsprung weight, gear ratios, aerodynamics, brake drag. It's not all about engine size, design and tuning.

The numbers you state seem reasonable, but I would still never trust the in-car systems. Even on brand new cars they can be an absolute crap shoot.

The LHS is a good ride, though. The feeling of a luxury boat without the price tag.

Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:00:04 »
I was under the impression that changing your fuel type e.g. 87, 91, 93 only mattered if the car actually required it?  So if your car suggests 87, putting anything more than 87 in won't have any effect on performance, it would just mean you're paying more per gallon.
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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:01:59 »
I was under the impression that changing your fuel type e.g. 87, 91, 93 only mattered if the car actually required it?  So if your car suggests 87, putting anything more than 87 in won't have any effect on performance, it would just mean you're paying more per gallon.

on OLD cars yea..

on Newer cars, the car can detect what gas you put in and adjust engine timings accordingly.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:11:41 »

only mattered if the car actually required it?  So if your car suggests 87, putting anything more than 87 in won't have any effect on performance, it would just mean you're paying more per gallon.

on Newer cars, the car can detect what gas you put in and adjust engine timings accordingly.

Sometimes true and sometimes not. My wife's Honda Odyssey got 10% better mileage on premium than standard, and it was recommended that you go that way if you were heavily loaded or pulling a trailer or something like that, because it could make more power on the better gas.
 
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:18:17 »
Different octane fuels does affect your MPG. It affects performance more on newer, more expensive cars, but you will notice a difference with your run of the mill stuff.

My old Vauxhall would get about 50-60 miles per tank more on 99 octane. Any my friend's GTR won't run on anything less than 98.
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:28:06 »

only mattered if the car actually required it?  So if your car suggests 87, putting anything more than 87 in won't have any effect on performance, it would just mean you're paying more per gallon.

on Newer cars, the car can detect what gas you put in and adjust engine timings accordingly.

Sometimes true and sometimes not. My wife's Honda Odyssey got 10% better mileage on premium than standard, and it was recommended that you go that way if you were heavily loaded or pulling a trailer or something like that, because it could make more power on the better gas.

I wonder if the better mileage would be worth the extra cost?  I had a 1997 Oldsmobile Aurora, which BTW ran like a dream for almost 9 years, that suggested using only premium and when gas was $4+ it was noticeable when filling up.  Now that gas is down I think it would be even more noticeable since the increase in price between different octanes is usually static at $0.10-0.20 between each octane.  It probably wouldn't be a huge deal, especially if you are just doing it when towing something, but might be worth figuring out if you drive a lot.

I guess I'll have to look at my car, but "old" and "new" here are probably gonna be pretty subjective and depend quite a bit on the make, model, and year made.
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Offline demik

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 09:34:54 »
I put race fuel in my car.

9.50 per gallon. Yolo.
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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:16:38 »
I put race fuel in my car.

9.50 per gallon. Yolo.

pfffff...  My van gets Gallons to the Mile...


Offline chyros

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:35:21 »
Pfah, my old Merc from '86 was as thirsty as they get :p .
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 10:44:54 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:29:18 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.

Why are they even a thing? The bed doesn't look that much bigger than a 250...
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:38:17 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.

Why are they even a thing? The bed doesn't look that much bigger than a 250...

Shoot my bad, it was actually an F-600 and not an F-650, but the F-650 apparently replaced the F-600 around 2000 so it is pretty much the same truck just older.  It was just a single cab with a flat bed that had wooden sides and a lift so that it could be dumped, it looked like the one below but it had more of an actual box on the back.

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Offline 1swt2gs

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #14 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:46:48 »
For those wondering, in my personal experience, putting 87 in a car which required 91 (Lexus GS300) made it run like absolute garbage
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Offline katushkin

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 11:59:13 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.

Why are they even a thing? The bed doesn't look that much bigger than a 250...

Shoot my bad, it was actually an F-600 and not an F-650, but the F-650 apparently replaced the F-600 around 2000 so it is pretty much the same truck just older.  It was just a single cab with a flat bed that had wooden sides and a lift so that it could be dumped, it looked like the one below but it had more of an actual box on the back.

Show Image


See, that makes sense. Especially at a garden centre. But one of these?;



What the ****.

For those wondering, in my personal experience, putting 87 in a car which required 91 (Lexus GS300) made it run like absolute garbage

Yeah, if you NEED a higher octane, you better stick to that or else.
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 12:16:44 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.

Why are they even a thing? The bed doesn't look that much bigger than a 250...

Shoot my bad, it was actually an F-600 and not an F-650, but the F-650 apparently replaced the F-600 around 2000 so it is pretty much the same truck just older.  It was just a single cab with a flat bed that had wooden sides and a lift so that it could be dumped, it looked like the one below but it had more of an actual box on the back.

Show Image


See, that makes sense. Especially at a garden centre. But one of these?;

Show Image


What the ****.

They are very helpful for detecting douche bags though.  The douche bag's level increases steadily as the amount of stickers in the back window increases, and if there are truck nuts on it you treat that as a multiplier.  So if you have one lifted F-650 (20 douche points) with 1 Monster sticker, 2 Browning stickers, 2 Mossy Oak stickers, (1 douche point each), and 1 set of truck nuts (x3 douche multiplier), you then know that you have a (20 + 1 + 2 + 2 x 3) = Lvl 75 douche bag.
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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 12:29:21 »
I never understood why people like driving trucks, 

Can't turn well,  very inconvenient..


Offline nugglets

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 12:31:23 »
I worked for a garden center when I was younger and we had a Ford F-650 delivery truck that got a whopping 3-4 MPG when it was loaded.  It listed the RPMs in 100s and not the 1000s which was fun, and was the also the vehicle I learned to drive stick with.  Needless to say every vehicle I've driven with a stick since has been pretty easy.

Why are they even a thing? The bed doesn't look that much bigger than a 250...

Shoot my bad, it was actually an F-600 and not an F-650, but the F-650 apparently replaced the F-600 around 2000 so it is pretty much the same truck just older.  It was just a single cab with a flat bed that had wooden sides and a lift so that it could be dumped, it looked like the one below but it had more of an actual box on the back.

Show Image


See, that makes sense. Especially at a garden centre. But one of these?;

Show Image


What the ****.

For those wondering, in my personal experience, putting 87 in a car which required 91 (Lexus GS300) made it run like absolute garbage

Yeah, if you NEED a higher octane, you better stick to that or else.

Lol, ya... that whole culture is just weird. But, I'm typing this on a site about $300+ keyboards so *shrug*

But the 6/7 series trucks aren't made for that, people just do that and so a few slip through. The overwhelming majority are tow trucks, haulers, ambulances, or utility vehicles of some kind. The transmissions specifically have secondary output shafts to run things like hydraulic lifts, crane arms etc., both while the vehicle is moving and stationary. When you need one, there is really nothing else that can do the job the same way.

Offline katushkin

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 12:36:19 »
Uhhhhh.....

I've got loads of stickers on my car...  :))
Can we get them to build the Alps ten feet higher and get Cherry to pay for it?
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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 12:58:15 »
I never understood why people like driving trucks, 

Can't turn well,  very inconvenient..

Trucks are fine and useful, it's the people who never use them for truck things that are somewhat annoying.  When I worked at the garden center I also operated the loader and there was always some guy who would be watching me like a hawk while I was dumping stones, bark, or dirt in their truck bed because he didn't want the bed to get scratched.  *****, lay a tarp down if you don't want your truck bed scratched because I'm dumping hundreds or thousands of pounds of ****ing stones in there.

Uhhhhh.....

I've got loads of stickers on my car...  :))

Everyone knows that stickers on cars just make them faster, but stickers on trucks just make you douchier ;)
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Offline demik

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 13:52:29 »
I never understood why people like driving trucks, 

Can't turn well,  very inconvenient..



I need mine for work.

Plus I like how they look. I wish I could afford a raptor too ;-;
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Offline Blackehart

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 14:48:41 »
I never understood why people like driving trucks, 

Can't turn well,  very inconvenient..


Trucks are fun!
You soon forget that curbs exist.
You can drive in the dirt just fine.
When the city floods cuz ****ty drainage system, you don't have to worry about stalling as much.

Sure, tires get EXPENSIVE.

Of course, I had just replaced mine 2 weeks before everything decided to give up the ghost.
Alternator, Radiator, Front Suspension, Tranny, Engine...

Said F That and replaced it with a Cobalt with 18K miles on it.
Takes getting used not lording it over everyone way up in truck seat heaven now that I'm in the sporty coupe zone.
I also still need to get used to the tank topping out at $35 versus $90.

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 15:21:58 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.


Offline Blackehart

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 17:01:06 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

Show Image


True,

but the creep factor goes up by like 100 :p

A van either screams "After our date, let's go buy beanie babies" or "we're going on a date, you just don't know it yet"

 :p

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 17:01:52 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

Show Image


True,

but the creep factor goes up by like 100 :p

A van either screams "After our date, let's go buy beanie babies" or "we're going on a date, you just don't know it yet"

 :p


Offline xtrafrood

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 18:26:05 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

Show Image


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Offline Waateva

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 20:17:12 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

Show Image


Windows or windowless?

For some reason, I think it might be windowless...
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 20:17:42 »
Your gallons are smaller than ours, so that seems like maybe 35-40 UK MPG? That's pretty good, especially if it's petrol and not diesel.

Next you have to look at how reliable it is. I'm not that au fait with American cars so I don't know how good Chryslers are (I've never seen an LHS in my life) but I would be happy with that mpg.

I thought you guys used liters over there.  But yes, it is petrol and not diesel.

There are a lot of things that effect gas mileage. Unsprung weight, gear ratios, aerodynamics, brake drag. It's not all about engine size, design and tuning.

The numbers you state seem reasonable, but I would still never trust the in-car systems. Even on brand new cars they can be an absolute crap shoot.

The LHS is a good ride, though. The feeling of a luxury boat without the price tag.

I do agree that many factors are at play with fuel mileage.  I made those comments because so many people don't believe me about the mileage I get from my cars.  Since I got out of high school, the smallest car I have owned was a Buick Regal.  Just wanted to bring awareness to the fact that older 4 door full sized sedans can get good mileage.  You do need to be a little picky because cars like the Caprice, Grand Marquis, or the Crown Victoria will probably never see 30+ mpg numbers.  Mostly due to the V8. Granted Cadillac get impressive numbers (upper 20's) but their V8's **** down cylinders when the power isn't needed.


When I first got my Park Avenue, I checked my mileage against the in-car mileage display a few times in the first couple months.  My numbers were always within a couple tenths.  Well within the margin of error of not filling the tank the the same amount each time. 

But even if it doesn't match actual numbers, I would assume it would still be a consistent measurement methods that wouldn't have the error of not filling the tank to the same spot every time. 

I really like the in car mileage display, as it can help show loss of power for trouble shooting even if you any feel the difference. 

I will post more on the relationship between octane and mileage later when I am not in mobile.

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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 20:26:15 »

Mostly due to the V8.


I realized long ago that if a car had engine options, the smaller ones were often better choices long-term than the larger ones.

I am on my 3rd 4-cylinger Camry and they are bulletproof.

"However, even though I was born in the Mesozoic, I do know what anyone who wants to reach out to young people should say: Billionaires took your money. They took your chance to buy a home. They took your chance at a good education. They stole your opportunities. Billionaires took the things you want in life. If you really want those things, you have to take them back.
That's the message. That's the whole message. Say that every day, not just to reach America's frustrated young white men, but people of every age, race, and gender.
Late-stage capitalism is a wealth-concentration engine, focused on vacuuming up every dollar and putting it in as few hands as possible. Republicans are helping that vacuum suck.
How does a tiny fraction of the population get away with this? They do it by dividing the other 99% of Americans against themselves."
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Offline Melvang

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #30 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:11:13 »

Mostly due to the V8.


I realized long ago that if a car had engine options, the smaller ones were often better choices long-term than the larger ones.

I am on my 3rd 4-cylinger Camry and they are bulletproof.

I don't generally agree, but with the compact and sub compact cars, yes.  But for mid to full size cars and small trucks (Ranger, S-10, Sonoma, Dakota), V6 is my preference.  I have personally drove two 3.8L GM V6s to over 200k miles.  My dad has had 3 over 200, and one was very close to 300k before the transmission let go.  The 4.3 V6 in my moms S-10 was an amazing motor until she rolled the truck on ice.  GM's 3.8 is actually now their best selling engine of all time.

Now with full size trucks, there is no reason to get a V6, unless it is a diesel.  To my knowledge, Dodge is the only one doing that right now for domestic.  For imports, I couldn't tell you, I have zero interest in buying one.  Chevrolet is now offering a 2.8L I4 diesel in the Colorado now.  Rated at 369 lb-ft of torque with a 7,700 towing capacity and being able to pull 31 mpg on the highway.

Now for my explanation on the relationship between octane and fuel mileage.  There is a very common myth that the higher the octane the more power you car will make.  This is partially true depending greatly on the engine and its electronics.  A higher octane fuel, technically has the exact same amount of energy at burn than lower.  They have the exact same potential energy.  What the octane rating actually translates to, is the difficulty of igniting it.  The higher the octane rating, the more difficult it is to ignite. 

The electronics I am referring to that make the difference is, the engine having a "knock sensor" and having the ability to adjust ignition timing on the fly to prevent knocking.  For those that don't know what knocking is, here is a brief explanation.  Knocking occurs when the air fuel mixture in the combustion chamber ignites before the spark plug fires.  The non planned ignition source is usually toward the piston side of the combustion chamber.  When the spark plug fires, it doesn't have as much air fuel mixture to ignite, and when the two flame fronts meet, it produces the knock sound.  This slightly reduces power, but what really steals the show with power loss, is when you engine automatically retards the ignition timing to ignite the mixture before it detonates.   This is much more of a problem with higher performing engines, as compression ratio has a direct relationship to knocking or detonation as most auto techs and car guys call it.  But with a higher compression ratio, you can make more power, but when you are only using a third of the power possible, the engine will generally operate more efficiently.  The problem with going to the higher compression ratio is the higher chance or detonation, this is the primary reason any auto owners manual specifies 91 octane or better. 

Some cars, have the ability to advance timing a bit when higher octane fuel is used.  This is what adds to the power and fuel efficiency.  It does not come directly from the fuel itself.  This is why some people say higher octane doesn't affect cars, it used to make no difference, aside from the knocking issue on higher compression engines. 

Now, the US, and Europe use two different methods for displaying the octane rating.  I can't explain it, but there is a great video on youtube. 

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #31 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 21:46:54 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

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nuh-un.. I got windows (NON-tinted)..

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Re: Gas mileage in my new for me car.
« Reply #32 on: Thu, 14 July 2016, 22:51:54 »
Or u know, drive a van, like Tp

You're still sitting slightly higher up than the other cars.

Show Image


Windows or windowless?

For some reason, I think it might be windowless...

nuh-un.. I got windows (NON-tinted)..
Show Image


Two windows in the back don't count..
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