Soldering station blues

[jcoffin1981]

I have ranted on the forums before about how disappointed I was about soldering equipment and the issues I have been having.  They work for a brief time and then not at all- either the power dies completely or it does just not get hot enough.

I currently have an inexpensive Chinese station, a "Gaoyue" 936 and it just does not get hot enough to melt solder.  It semi-melts to the tip and then it hardens and won't come off.  I pushed it to 400 degrees and it's still doing the same thing.  I am very much a believer in purchasing quality tools that work well rather than cheap items made in China or Pakistan.  I was hoping somebody could recommend a station that has worked well for them.  While it was working I had a "Aoyue" 937 station that I was very happy with.  Eventually it would not get hot enough and I tried replacing the tip with original Hakko tips.  Whether or not the issue was with the iron attachement or with the station I don't know, but the Gaoyue station I have now was meant to replace it.   


I would purchase a new Hakko station, but the keyboard I'm working on cost about 80 to 100 dollars, and to spend almost 150 dollars on a station seems silly.  When I finish this I have no more projects to work on.  Since I have had such terrible horrible luck I may just break down and buy a proper unit.  Please, any ideas are greatly appreciated.

[ntw]

and here I am working on my 6th or 7th board with the Yellow Flower soldering iron and I have no issues at all

[fanpeople]

Fact is buy a solid station and it should last you a lifetime with minimal use. so any projects you may decide to do will be a breeze. At worst hock it on ebay when your done.i think a solder station is like a torqe wrench, you may only use it once a year but your fixtures will thank you.

[TalkingTree]

I've been reading your topics for a while and I'm honestly surprised by the failure rate of your equipment so I'm starting to wonder if there's any issue with the electrical system of your house. You might want to use a tester to check wheter the voltage supplied is constant. Mind you, 110 VAC isn't safe to handle, so be sure of what you do and eventually ask a professional. Also, always plug your solder directly to the powerpoint rather than to a power strip.

As for the recommendations. I've lately purchased the SEEED mini solder from Massdrop and I'm really happy with it.

[Tactile]

If you just bought this station, I'm sure the tip is at a proper temp & there's something else wrong. Those Chinese Hakko knock-offs all heat properly, especially when they're brand new. The main advantage of a name brand soldering station over a Chinese knock-off is longevity and spare parts availability, not tip temperature. They all get hot.

What solder are you using?

[Tactile]

It might be possible that you got a 220 volt station & you're running it on 110, or vice versa. They may have shipped the wrong one & they make those stations for both voltages. If there isn't a voltage selection switch somewhere I guess you'd need to open the case & check the transformer wiring.

[Moistgun]

If you consider the fact that you are using a power demanding station on the wrong supply like other people are recommending, with non compatible tips, with lead free solder, and no flux, you could be shooting yourself in the foot a couple times.

what solder do you use?

[jcoffin1981]

The "power on" light does not stay on consistently, so I think it has to do with the power source in the machine.  It will be on for 10 seconds, off for 5 seconds, on for 15 seconds, off for 10- something to that effect.  I think it's not staying on long enough to reach operating temperature.  I didn't consider the 110 vs 220.  There is no switch on the machine and I don't think it's marked.

I use 63/37 leaded solder.  It has a rosin core, but I use a flux pen.  It's cheap solder but it's always melted quickly and evenly.  I've never tested the power source coming from the wall and I can do that, but I use it for computer equipment, watchmaking tools, timing machines, ultrasonic cleaners, among others; things that would be very sensitive to inconsistencies in power or problems in voltage. I just use the Hakko tips because they seem to heat more evenly than the generic ones.  They are all new and I keep them cleaned and tinned.

My first was 12 dollar soldering that burned way too hot despite having a little temperature control wheel.  It was stuck on the hottest setting.  It blackened all the tips in a very short period of time.

The second was a cheap 936 $26 machine that didn't power on the second time I used it.

The third was a $70 937 clone that the tip does not get hot enough anymore.  I'm fairly certain the issue is with the iron tip assembly or the ceramic element which has chips missing and I've ordered a replacement and I'm just waiting for it.

The fourth is the one I just mentioned that doesn't seem to stay on.  This is a $20 dollar 936.  It may just be poor luck.

[Tactile]

That light you see is not a power indicator (one of my complaints with Hakko) but is instead a heater indicator. When it is lit the heater is energized. If this light is blinking that indicates that the station is reading the tip temp and turning the heater on & off as needed to maintain the proper temperature.

[tjcaustin]

You mentioned 400 degrees, I assume you mean celcius?

As far as I'm aware, most soldering units don't have a switching power supply so it's likely not set up for whatever you need.  I know stuff based off the old hakko 936 is usually bulletproof.

And just to point out now that you're on your 4th cheap station, if you added all the money you've spent on bad equipment up, you could have bought a hakko or a good edsyn by now.

[jcoffin1981]

Si', 400C.

Yes, this point about the money adding up is duly noted.  I have lots of student loans so I try to pinch pennies where I can.  It's been a few seasons since I've bought a winter coat..

The 936 setup is my favorite.  However, looking on the inside it all appears handmade and wired and is quite messy.  It's not a factory stamped PCB with neat little rows of tracers and pads and there is solder everywhere.  Some of the connections are angel-hair thin.  I guess this is what $25 dollars buys you.

[alienman82]

removed.

[TalkingTree]

It might be possible that you got a 220 volt station & you're running it on 110

That would explain the insufficient temperature at the tip.

or vice versa.

It would fry immediately.

[Tactile]

If the heater light is blinking as you say that indicates that the station believes the tip is at the set temperature (+/- calibration tolerance) and I'm inclined to believe it's right. I think the problem is elsewhere. If you've used all of these different setups and the temperature seems too low on all of them there is something goofy with the solder or the work pieces. I just can't believe they're all wrong and that they're all wrong in the same direction - none have been too hot, only too cold.

I'm guessing that you've tried all of these irons on the same work piece. Have you just grabbed an old PCB or anything else and tried to solder a blob onto it? Or just twist a couple of wires together and solder them. I'll bet that new station is working fine.

[jcoffin1981]

If the heater light is blinking as you say that indicates that the station believes the tip is at the set temperature (+/- calibration tolerance) and I'm inclined to believe it's right. I think the problem is elsewhere. If you've used all of these different setups and the temperature seems too low on all of them there is something goofy with the solder or the work pieces. I just can't believe they're all wrong and that they're all wrong in the same direction - none have been too hot, only too cold.

I'm guessing that you've tried all of these irons on the same work piece. Have you just grabbed an old PCB or anything else and tried to solder a blob onto it? Or just twist a couple of wires together and solder them. I'll bet that new station is working fine.

If the heater light is blinking as you say that indicates that the station believes the tip is at the set temperature (+/- calibration tolerance) and I'm inclined to believe it's right. I think the problem is elsewhere. If you've used all of these different setups and the temperature seems too low on all of them there is something goofy with the solder or the work pieces. I just can't believe they're all wrong and that they're all wrong in the same direction - none have been too hot, only too cold.

I'm guessing that you've tried all of these irons on the same work piece. Have you just grabbed an old PCB or anything else and tried to solder a blob onto it? Or just twist a couple of wires together and solder them. I'll bet that new station is working fine.

I've tried several tips and tried to melt a mound of solder as well as touching very thin leaded solder to all places on the tip.  It would soften just a tiny bit and then stick to the tip and harden and then have to be chipped off.

I can check to see if there is some indication of it being intended for 220V. One was running too hot and damaged the pcb and blackened the tips.  It was a pen style iron.

Is that how it works that the power simply cuts off at the intended temperature?  I wasn't sure if  it controlled the temperature with some kind of thermostat or whether the voltage to the iron was variable depending on the desired temperature.  If it does cut off then wiping the tip with a wet sponge should drop the temp and the light would immediately go back on, but that didn't seem to happen.  Anyways I will play with it again tonight and see if I can melt something.

[Tactile]

If you don't have a thermometer you can pick up one of these temp sticks and test the soldering equipment with it.

http://www.markal.com/temperature-indicators/thermomelt-/

[jcoffin1981]

Ahh very good.  Looks like it may be a bit of a pain to obtain though.  It is available through some local hardware stores but would have to do some traveling to get it.    Could I not get an inexpensive laser thermometer?  I  can then test several temperatures.  I wonder if the heat source has too little surface area to properly melt the indicator material.

[DanB]

I am using a Weller WES 51 and that or the Hakko 888 are the seemingly preferred quality brands.

[Tactile]

Ahh very good.  Looks like it may be a bit of a pain to obtain though.  It is available through some local hardware stores but would have to do some traveling to get it.    Could I not get an inexpensive laser thermometer?  I  can then test several temperatures.  I wonder if the heat source has too little surface area to properly melt the indicator material.

Sure. a laser or thermocouple thermometer would work. I was just thinking that a temp stick would be less expensive. I've worked in shops where those were used and they work very well.

[Puddsy]

I did the switch swap on my QFR with a Hakko 888d. Considering how much use the thing gets, I'm impressed that it worked as well as it does.

[jcoffin1981]

The Hakko 888D?  I may just break down and buy this and be done with it.  $100 dollars well spent.

Here is a video, a 1 minute clip of what I described.  It was filmed with a digital camera and I don't have 3 hands, but it illustrates what is happening fairly well.  I have on the original tip so there are no out of the box variables that are altered.  I typically solder at about 260 or 265C and I have plenty of heat.  This is set at 350C.  Hopefully people will no longer think I'm a complete retard.  Oh it is labeled at 110V.  The outlet is reading between 124.1 and 124.2V which is within acceptable parameters and the ground is working properly.

[tp4tissue]

The Hakko 888D?  I may just break down and buy this and be done with it.  $100 dollars well spent.

Here is a video, a 1 minute clip of what I described.  It was filmed with a digital camera and I don't have 3 hands, but it illustrates what is happening fairly well.  I have on the original tip so there are no out of the box variables that are altered.  I typically solder at about 260 or 265C and I have plenty of heat.  This is set at 350C.  Hopefully people will no longer think I'm a complete retard.  Oh it is labeled at 110V.

if that board is lead free (it probably is)..  You need more than 350,    also, you shouldn't listen to enya while soldering..  it ruins the joints.

400-500 Celcius for lead free..

So, push it to say 500,   and use a chisel tip..   don't use that tip..




My guess is something is wrong with that tip.. or it's making poor contact on the inside

[tjcaustin]

Yeah, for lead free, I run about 425C.  I will say though, desoldering with a soldering iron isn't exactly an easy process.

[jcoffin1981]

I've really only purchased the KBP v60 and the Poker keyboard and the joints all melt well at the lower temperatures I described (260- 270C). The solder spool I used was 37% lead and it would barely melt at a temperature that was supposedly 350C.

I've used the chisel tips as per others recommendations, but the wider conical tip- the 900 T-B seems to work better for me.  However, I've tried the chisel tips and they did not melt the solder any better.

[tp4tissue]

I've really only purchased the KBP v60 and the Poker keyboard and the joints all melt well at the lower temperatures I described (260- 270C). The solder spool I used was 37% lead and it would barely melt at a temperature that was supposedly 350C.

I've used the chisel tips as per others recommendations, but the wider conical tip- the 900 T-B seems to work better for me.  However, I've tried the chisel tips and they did not melt the solder any better.

Hrrrrmm....  how does that iron make contact with the tip....  something might be loose on the resistor side.

do you have a infrared thermal gun.. to check the temperature..

[MandrewDavis]

I also own an Aoyue 936. I replaced the stock tip with a Hakko chisel tip and began having the same heating issues you are describing, all to the point that  I couldn't melt solder. Check the manual to make sure you have reassembled it correctly. I kept putting piece 4, the 'tip holder' on backwards and it must have messed of the thermometer or something, zero issues after that was fixed.

[NoChance]

I really enjoy my Weller WESD51.

https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WESD51-Digital-Soldering-Station/dp/B000ARU9PO

The high availability of tips is why I went Weller. 

It can be had for about $110 on sale or so.

[jcoffin1981]

Yes the reassembly of the tip is something I was considering.  I quadruple checked them several times because this would make sense- the heat not transferring from the element to the tip.  The irons are all assembled like this and on one of them part 4 is fixed.

The calibration is something that never crossed my mind.  My next step is to get one of these infrared thermometers and see what tip temp is really at.  The manual was total complete gibberish and was useless- very poorly translated.

I tried again tonight and at 375C degrees with 2 irons and 2 stations at the base of the tip again the solder wire just softened and stuck to the tip and had to be chipped off.  Continuing to post about it is not going to accomplish anything so I have to figure out what the issue is and/or buy better equipment-Weller or Hakko, or one of these British stations.

[tp4tissue]

https://www.amazon.com/Weller-WLC100-40-Watt-Soldering-Station/dp/B000AS28UC/ref=sr_1_6?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1478223777&sr=1-6&keywords=soldering+iron

Get one of these..

It's cheap. and works..

The uber precision digital temperature control thing isn't really necessary,  because soldering temp isn't really precision work unless it's wave-soldering in an industrial environment..

Everything that's hand soldered works on the  hot-enuff  principle..

[alienman82]

removed.

[jcoffin1981]

I was actually looking at this Weller station.  I just bought a temp gauge that will arrive on Sat.  Let's see what the temp is really running at.  But I think I will ultimately need to purchase some higher quality equipment. 

What are your opinions as to digital vs. analog?

[Tactile]

What are your opinions as to digital vs. analog?

A digital readout is only worth something if the station allows you to switch the readout between the set temperature and the actual temperature. Some digital stations only use the digital readout for setting the temperature and this is actually worse than an analog dial. It's worse because the dial will work for decades but if you lose a digit on the digital readout it's pretty much useless.

I've had both types and the WTCPT I use now has no readout, knob, dial, or anything to set the temperature.  (You change temperature by changing tips.)   

[tp4tissue]

you def, don't need a read-out..

you can get the thermal probe,  it's way more accurate and reliable..

[jcoffin1981]

Still waiting for that damn infrared thermometer.  The delivery date was changed.  If the tip temp is grossly different than the set temperature than I know that something is funky.  I checked the resistance of the various circuits and sensors in the handpieces and they were just outside of spec., but I can't see this being a problem. 

[LunarisDream]

I have ranted on the forums before about how disappointed I was about soldering equipment and the issues I have been having.  They work for a brief time and then not at all- either the power dies completely or it does just not get hot enough.

I currently have an inexpensive Chinese station, a "Gaoyue" 936 and it just does not get hot enough to melt solder.  It semi-melts to the tip and then it hardens and won't come off.  I pushed it to 400 degrees and it's still doing the same thing.  I am very much a believer in purchasing quality tools that work well rather than cheap items made in China or Pakistan.  I was hoping somebody could recommend a station that has worked well for them.  While it was working I had a "Aoyue" 937 station that I was very happy with.  Eventually it would not get hot enough and I tried replacing the tip with original Hakko tips.  Whether or not the issue was with the iron attachement or with the station I don't know, but the Gaoyue station I have now was meant to replace it.   


I would purchase a new Hakko station, but the keyboard I'm working on cost about 80 to 100 dollars, and to spend almost 150 dollars on a station seems silly.  When I finish this I have no more projects to work on.  Since I have had such terrible horrible luck I may just break down and buy a proper unit.  Please, any ideas are greatly appreciated.

I have the Aoyue 936 as well. Either your heating element failed, or you have a 220V model (standard in China) plugged into a 110V outlet (standard in most Western countries).

Edit: looks like someone already raised this concern. Disregard this then

[tp4tissue]

Still waiting for that damn infrared thermometer.  The delivery date was changed.  If the tip temp is grossly different than the set temperature than I know that something is funky.  I checked the resistance of the various circuits and sensors in the handpieces and they were just outside of spec., but I can't see this being a problem. 

you mean you checked the resistors while they were still in the circuit ?

[jcoffin1981]

No no, of course not.  The iron was separated from the station.  I was checked at the pcb connections at the heating element.

[Parak]

For anyone who wants a proper soldering iron - I suspect it will go fast though:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282247042965

[jcoffin1981]

Okay, it took forever for the infrared thermometer to arrive.  With the original iron and original tip, at a setting of 300C I am getting a maximum tip temperature of 82C.
I have a replacement iron which plugs in the station and at the same setting of 300C I get a max tip temperature of 210C.  This is a Gaoyue 936+ station.

I do not know if the element is reaching the temperature and the heat is poorly to the tip or if it is badly calibrated.  If I want a tip temperature of 270 do I just set it to 370?  Isn't the tip supposed to read pretty darn close to the actual setting?

Oh, in regards to the station which no longer powers on after one use (my favorite one), I found a short in the power PCB.  The pcb is handwired and soldered.  When I have some time to work on it I can disconnect and bypass the section with the short circuit. 

Can somebody explain the relationship between iron temperature and dial setting?  Are they supposed to match or is it okay so simply turn up the dial until it's hot enough to work properly even if it's 475C?

[Tactile]

Can somebody explain the relationship between iron temperature and dial setting?  Are they supposed to match or is it okay so simply turn up the dial until it's hot enough to work properly even if it's 475C?

Tip temperature is all that counts. If you need to turn the dial up don't worry about the dial labeling. Just get the tip to a temperature which works for you.

[tp4tissue]

when you're measuring the tip with the gun..  Make sure the tip is NOT shiny/ tinned..

Maybe put some rosin on it and let it turn black..

Because if it's shiny/reflective,  the reading will be off by ALOT..

[jcoffin1981]

when you're measuring the tip with the gun..  Make sure the tip is NOT shiny/ tinned..

Maybe put some rosin on it and let it turn black..

Because if it's shiny/reflective,  the reading will be off by ALOT..

I'm amazed at how accurate this thing is as I've compared it with other thermometers and it's usually within +/- .1 degrees (we're talking earth temperature ranges).  Anyways yes, it seems that reflective metals emit less infrared energy. I don't understand the physics of it, but this is a fact.  However, isn't it true that a properly tinned tip will carry more heat to the surface than a badly oxidized surface?  I have some blackened tips that I can try.  However, I cannot get the tip  hot enough to tin it properly anyway, although I have not tried turning it up to 450 or 500C.

Oh, my original 936 that would not power up, I found a short in the power PCB.  It's all handmade and wired.  When I get a chance I can bypass this part of the circuit.  This was favorite station and it worked great.  If I can get it working I'll just say "screw it" and use that one.  If not I have a Radio Shack fixed temp that will work well enough for what I need.  I don't need 500C, just 275 to 300C.

Edit:  So with the blackened, rough tip I got a max temp of 175 degrees with the dial set to 300.  Now this station is weird in that the power comes on and off to adjust the temperature.  I thought that a station has a variable wattage to the handpiece depending on the setting? For example 10 to 60W.  I'd be curious to see the wattage going to the iron.  Some of the wiring may be done by hand, but the transformer is a drop-in piece, so I would think this should be correct.  Anyways, is it safe to say that this thing is screwed, or may it simply be a calibration issue?  I could not make out any calibration procedure in the manual. 

Edit:  That was pretty stupid.  I switched over to Farenheit when I was playing with it.  The max temperature on the tip surface with the non-tinned tip is 80C, virtually the same as the original handpiece and tip.

[jcoffin1981]

Ha ha, look a this.  I bough an inexpensive pencil style iron from Radio Shack to rewire a station with a short and this is what happens- it gets mediocre hot and then shoots out white, smelly smoke.  Come on, this is the most basic iron, just plug it in and wait for it to get hot. This happened at work too, so it can't be blamed on the power supply at my house.

I think it's time to buy a Weller or a Hakko.  But this basic Radio Shack 40 watt model should be reliable.

[tp4tissue]

if you do this all the time, get the xpensive one..

Otherwise,  it's a pretty big waste of money,  You could buy ramen and eat it...  Can't eat soldering iron.

[jcoffin1981]

The guy at Radio Shack didn't believe.  So he plugged it in and yeah, it started smoking after two minutes and no heat.

Yes, I'm buying a better station and my budget is between 40 and 100 dollars.  I'm looking at a few- the Weller WLC100 and the Hakko FX888D.  I really like temperature controlled like the Hakko.  I also have several extra hand pieces and lots of tips.  However, the variable wattage of a model like the Weller could work too.  I've read that the tip temperature can migrate more than you like and it can affect the joints.  If you are desoldering  and can bang out 20 joints quickly can this be a problem?  I suppose there is a learning curve.  I LOVE the small size of this unit though.  What a pleasure it would be to not have a huge station on my workspace.

You've all been very helpful.  Well sort of- we never really fixed anything, just determined that these are probably all crap and I got unlucky. Everyone has their own opinion and I'd love to hear what they feel would be the best purchase as well as temp control vs variable power.  My typical use will be soldering small thru-PCB components, capacitors, and an occasional diode or something.  I would like the ability to repair something large should the need arise.        Thank you!!!!!!!

[Tactile]

These folks seem to have a good selection, with US sales & support. Nope, I've never done business with them.

https://www.circuitspecialists.com/soldering-stations

[jcoffin1981]

I like these designs and they are within my price range.  But these brands are an unknown variable.  The products don't have individual reviews.  I'd prefer to stick to 2-or 3 respected brands with a proven model.

[Tactile]

I like these designs and they are within my price range.  But these brands are an unknown variable.  The products don't have individual reviews.  I'd prefer to stick to 2-or 3 respected brands with a proven model.

Given your conditions I'd go with a Weller WES51. But, you're not buying it as a gift for me Happy Black Friday shopping!

[jcoffin1981]

Good looking station.  Appears to have all I' m looking for.  Why would you suggest this over the aforementioned Hakko?

Edit:  Oh, it's analog.  This is much better.

[Tactile]

Good looking station.  Appears to have all I' m looking for.  Why would you suggest this over the aforementioned Hakko?

The Weller has the power switch on the front instead of around the side. I'm the only person on the planet bothered by the way Hakko stations are designed, but there it is.