The Problem with Mechanical Switch Reviews

[HaaTa]

It's long, but it's worth it



https://deskthority.net/photos-f62/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-reviews-t15133.html

(normally I'd dual post, but I don't want to worry about correcting in a bunch of places if anyone finds mistakes/typos for me to correct...)

[Giorgio]

Thanks for this genial article.

I hope that in the future you'll consider analysing also replacement springs, which seem to be quite popular. For example the ones from sprit, originative, etc

[HaaTa]

Yeah, once I get a better handle on the wide variety of switches. I'll probably start looking into switch customization.

[Giorgio]

And please test cherry silent switches. They're heavier than reds, because the spring is precompressed. In other words, the first infinitesimal movement requires more force.

[quasistellar]

Thanks for this, Haata.  I, too, am an engineer, and I was kind of shocked when I first got into mechanical keyboards.  I expected some decently documented force/actuation curves for most switches, and had a hell of a time finding anything but cherry.  It's likely that a lot of the switches people here enjoy are long-out-of-production Alps switches which went away before the internet era, and therefore lost their technical documents to the mists of time.

[DuckNorris]

 I see on the more popular websites for tech stuff the reviews are written by someone who went into a Frys and Microcenter and bought some Razer Keyboard or Corsair and labeled them as the best and claim "blues are clicky so they are better get them" as their conclusion. I am not attacking people with those keyboard my point is they don't go deep and the people writing them are not usually keyboard enthusiasts for years and probably are paid to rank certain keyboards. Mostly kids follow those anyway perhaps and also I don't think new people would understand the technical aspects of a mechanical keyboards and it confuses them. 

Thanks for putting in the time the testing to get these metrics must have taken a while. It is true so much subjectivity when it comes to keyboards and you helped me understand other aspects better in your review.

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for this, Haata.  I, too, am an engineer, and I was kind of shocked when I first got into mechanical keyboards.  I expected some decently documented force/actuation curves for most switches, and had a hell of a time finding anything but cherry.  It's likely that a lot of the switches people here enjoy are long-out-of-production Alps switches which went away before the internet era, and therefore lost their technical documents to the mists of time.

Well .... ask urself as an engineer ....  DOES IT MATTER ....





It's a bit different when you go from engineer to SHOPPER... in Shopper mode,  you're looking for something to JUSTIFY the expense..


Because fundamentally,   The engineering perspective of Getting from A to B (Reliably) at the lowest cost is the pure utilitarian philosophy behind the scene.

[dorkvader]

I am continually sad that so few reviewers will do a proper teardown and analysis of the PCB and engineering decisions that went into the manufacture of the KB. you don't even have to be an engineer to have a look at things, and once you become experienced with how things look you can start to make commentary on what looks good or bad with the design.

I really like this quote:

Spring weights brings a little glimmer of hope to me when it comes to measurable details, but summarily falls over, like a pile of nickels.

I just spent some time reading through the entire post (here it is on input:club https://input.club/the-problem-with-mechanical-switch-reviews/ ) and I will say that it's truly excellent. In my opinion, the ability to start to empirically determine switch properties in a repeatable manner is a huge boon to the current state of the art. This is a long time coming and clearly one of the most important developments of the last few years.

I'm pretty sure I gave you a few of those awful clicky hall effect switches, now everyone can see how bad they are.

[quasistellar]

Thanks for this, Haata.  I, too, am an engineer, and I was kind of shocked when I first got into mechanical keyboards.  I expected some decently documented force/actuation curves for most switches, and had a hell of a time finding anything but cherry.  It's likely that a lot of the switches people here enjoy are long-out-of-production Alps switches which went away before the internet era, and therefore lost their technical documents to the mists of time.

Well .... ask urself as an engineer ....  DOES IT MATTER ....





It's a bit different when you go from engineer to SHOPPER... in Shopper mode,  you're looking for something to JUSTIFY the expense..


Because fundamentally,   The engineering perspective of Getting from A to B (Reliably) at the lowest cost is the pure utilitarian philosophy behind the scene.

The force curves?  They matter.  Now that I can associate a particular switch's feeling to a force curve, I can reliably determine whether I'll like a switch or not by simply looking at it's force curve.  I know that if there is a significant ramp at the end, I'll hate it.  I know that if the tactile event occurs after the mid-point, I'll dislike it.

Reviews that say "this switch clicks nice and loud and is tactile" are actually completely ****ing useless to me.

[Moistgun]

I am continually sad that so few reviewers will do a proper teardown and analysis of the PCB and engineering decisions that went into the manufacture of the KB. you don't even have to be an engineer to have a look at things, and once you become experienced with how things look you can start to make commentary on what looks good or bad with the design.

I think the vast quantity of "How To's" available to us on the internet allow many people to only focus on the how, while bypassing the why.  Its much easier to reach the end goal of a project than it is to investigate why things work the way they do.

I for one am at a point where I don't want/need any more boards, and have very little drive to keep digging into the more technical aspects of these devices.

I feel like i'm slightly more technical than a lot of the MKB hobbyist population, but even still, I feel like I barely know anything.
This post scares me by how much over my head it is.

 

[dorkvader]

I feel like i'm slightly more technical than a lot of the MKB hobbyist population, but even still, I feel like I barely know anything.
This post scares me by how much over my head it is.

It's pretty straightforward, at least for me. Read it over and I would be happy to help explain.

Myself, I got into hall effect because they are more complex than normal keyboards, but still simpler than some of the really complex ones (just looking at that cortron magnetic valve PCB scares me) I ended up putting a lot of effort into a few of the KBs I have and unfortunately seem to have lost all my data. So I'm developing a proper backup solution before I start again. And as a true keyboard hobbyist, I'm currently taking classes towards an electrical / mechanical engineering degree so I can understand these systems even better.


oh also:

On that note, does anyone believe that gold springs do anything?! If claims are being made that they are better than non-gold springs, doesn’t anyone worry that they are being taken in by the same sort of marketing that Monster cables uses?

Gold springs really help with the corrosion resistance of the switch. Anyone who has seen that picture of oxidized green gateron guts will see the value in the gold.

[tp4tissue]

Thanks for this, Haata.  I, too, am an engineer, and I was kind of shocked when I first got into mechanical keyboards.  I expected some decently documented force/actuation curves for most switches, and had a hell of a time finding anything but cherry.  It's likely that a lot of the switches people here enjoy are long-out-of-production Alps switches which went away before the internet era, and therefore lost their technical documents to the mists of time.

Well .... ask urself as an engineer ....  DOES IT MATTER ....





It's a bit different when you go from engineer to SHOPPER... in Shopper mode,  you're looking for something to JUSTIFY the expense..


Because fundamentally,   The engineering perspective of Getting from A to B (Reliably) at the lowest cost is the pure utilitarian philosophy behind the scene.

The force curves?  They matter.  Now that I can associate a particular switch's feeling to a force curve, I can reliably determine whether I'll like a switch or not by simply looking at it's force curve.  I know that if there is a significant ramp at the end, I'll hate it.  I know that if the tactile event occurs after the mid-point, I'll dislike it.

Reviews that say "this switch clicks nice and loud and is tactile" are actually completely ****ing useless to me.

It would matter under the assumption that the (feel) is what you're looking for.


But the Matter that DOES NOT-Matter is the Feel altogether,    therefore negating the need for you to be looking for such descriptors in the first place..




Is there a Difference ,  YES

Does it Matter,      NO

Do you care,   YES

Does it MATTER,     STILL NO...


WHY NO,   because you still get from A to B...   With or Without the difference of the switches..