I have an idea...

[IBMPCDOS5]

This may not be the right place to post this but...

We all know pretty much that Alps is and probably will always be better than what Cherry would probably ever dream of. Even when the Simplified Alps appeared, at least they were still more usable than Cherry today.
Matias is now the only reminisce of Alps left. It more or less copies the Simplified Alps design and are seemingly good switches (Matias) from what I can gather. Let's change this.
I really want to recreate the SKCL/SKCM series of Alps. Notably, Blue and White Alps (pretty much the best clicky switches out there), Salmon and Black Alps, (some people like the gritty feeling of Black Alps,) and Lime Alps for a linear switch.
These would probably be called Zen switches and would use a translucent housing, similar to Matias. If there's enough demand, I would make a version of these with an MX pin-out and slider. If I were to make keyboards out of these, would it be okay if I used the GH logo in place of the Windows/Apple logo? I want this to be a GH-exclusive keyboard.
Because I am emulating the SKCM Alps, White Zens will feel a bit scratchier then Blue Zens, and a bit higher pitched, in nature to authentic Alps.
Do you think I should go through with this? Let me know!
-IBMPCDOS5

[loud_asian]

This may not be the right place to post this but...

We all know pretty much that Alps is and probably will always be better than what Cherry would probably ever dream of. Even when the Simplified Alps appeared, at least they were still more usable than Cherry today.
Matias is now the only reminisce of Alps left. It more or less copies the Simplified Alps design and are seemingly good switches (Matias) from what I can gather. Let's change this.
I really want to recreate the SKCL/SKCM series of Alps. Notably, Blue and White Alps (pretty much the best clicky switches out there), Salmon and Black Alps, (some people like the gritty feeling of Black Alps,) and Lime Alps for a linear switch.
These would probably be called Zen switches and would use a translucent housing, similar to Matias. If there's enough demand, I would make a version of these with an MX pin-out and slider. If I were to make keyboards out of these, would it be okay if I used the GH logo in place of the Windows/Apple logo? I want this to be a GH-exclusive keyboard.
Because I am emulating the SKCM Alps, White Zens will feel a bit scratchier then Blue Zens, and a bit higher pitched, in nature to authentic Alps.
Do you think I should go through with this? Let me know!
-IBMPCDOS5

It's gonna cost a lot of dough to get this running

Since you're gonna need a lot of money, why make it a geekhack exclusive thing? That just limits your consumer base.

If you plan on going through with this, keep in mind that that there's gonna be a lot of unforeseen bumps in the road that will end up costing you even more money than you plan to put in

[IBMPCDOS5]

I know it's gonna be costly. I'll first probably just be making a few loose switches. As for the geekhack logo, I don't wanna pay MS for the Windows logo. I won't be making a lot of keyboards anyway, largely just switches.

[tp4tissue]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

[loud_asian]

I know it's gonna be costly. I'll first probably just be making a few loose switches. As for the geekhack logo, I don't wanna pay MS for the Windows logo. I won't be making a lot of keyboards anyway, largely just switches.

Why use a different company's logo at all? Why not make your own? If you're gonna be selling this on a large scale, wouldn't you want your switches to be known as the zen family of switches, and not the geekhack family of switches?

[IBMPCDOS5]

True, very true. I'll take that into consideration. I know making switches are not cheap. But many people probably miss Alps switches (Authentic Alps) and SKCM is the best of the bunch. While no clone is 100% accurate, I still want people to experience a taste of what mechanical switches used to be. Zen will probably be the code name if I feel the name should be geekhack *color*.  Thanks for your input!

[mike52787]

Wow, Great idea! maybe drop the idea of recreating the lesser switches and keep it to: SKCM Blue, SKCM Orange and SKCL Green;which are arguably the most highly accoladed switches in each category. Just to keep the cost down. If you can manage to pull this off, and keep the cost relatively low, matias will have some stiff competition!

[supamesican]

I love this idea! I'd buy two boards, both blue, if this happened. But I gotta ask, why white? They were the lesser quality, cost savings, version of blue. That would be like remaking a model m after you had a model f.

[Geroximo]

We all know pretty much that Alps is and probably will always be better than what Cherry would probably ever dream of.

I hate Alps and Cherry equally.

[Findecanor]

If there's enough demand, I would make a version of these with an MX pin-out and slider.

That would not be possible without increasing the width of the housing or increasing the height of the slider.

On Cherry MX the bottom of the key stem goes around the slider's mount and there needs to be enough width inside the switch housing to fit it.
Alps are also somewhat wobblier than Cherry MX. I think that widening or heightening the slider would make it even wobblier.
Apple AEK and AEKII have the function key row sideways because those keys are so high, only to cope with the wobbliness of the switch in one direction.

[mike52787]

We all know pretty much that Alps is and probably will always be better than what Cherry would probably ever dream of.

I hate Alps and Cherry equally.

topre is ****

[menuhin]

Great idea, I'll support by my wallet, plus I'll spread the news if older Alps clones are really properly re-created, even with Cherry keycap attachment stem and Cherry pin-out.

Please remember, only create those 'pine' switches (with the 'slits' in the top switch housing), the 'bamboo' switches are of much worse key feel. Though also quite heavy, Alps 'pine' blacks are actually quite nice (present in some NeXT boards and some made in Japan big-foot old logo Dell).

[YoshiCaps]

This may not be the right place to post this but...

We all know pretty much that Alps is and probably will always be better than what Cherry would probably ever dream of. Even when the Simplified Alps appeared, at least they were still more usable than Cherry today.
Matias is now the only reminisce of Alps left. It more or less copies the Simplified Alps design and are seemingly good switches (Matias) from what I can gather. Let's change this.
I really want to recreate the SKCL/SKCM series of Alps. Notably, Blue and White Alps (pretty much the best clicky switches out there), Salmon and Black Alps, (some people like the gritty feeling of Black Alps,) and Lime Alps for a linear switch.
These would probably be called Zen switches and would use a translucent housing, similar to Matias. If there's enough demand, I would make a version of these with an MX pin-out and slider. If I were to make keyboards out of these, would it be okay if I used the GH logo in place of the Windows/Apple logo? I want this to be a GH-exclusive keyboard.
Because I am emulating the SKCM Alps, White Zens will feel a bit scratchier then Blue Zens, and a bit higher pitched, in nature to authentic Alps.
Do you think I should go through with this? Let me know!
-IBMPCDOS5

Good idea. While I still think alps are mushy (cherry is superiour i must say) this coule be an idea to revive obscure switches.

[IBMPCDOS5]

Wow, Great idea! maybe drop the idea of recreating the lesser switches and keep it to: SKCM Blue, SKCM Orange and SKCL Green;which are arguably the most highly accoladed switches in each category. Just to keep the cost down. If you can manage to pull this off, and keep the cost relatively low, matias will have some stiff competition!

Very good idea. I just like the sound of White Alps a bit more. I do have some ways of making these switches. For instance my dad works in metal shops and 3D printing. I can 3D print the sliders and well as the housing, (it's gonna be translucent,). I could also ask if he could make me tactile and click leafs. As for SKCM Green, it'll probably be the cheapest to make.

Great idea, I'll support by my wallet, plus I'll spread the news if older Alps clones are really properly re-created, even with Cherry keycap attachment stem and Cherry pin-out.

Please remember, only create those 'pine' switches (with the 'slits' in the top switch housing), the 'bamboo' switches are of much worse key feel. Though also quite heavy, Alps 'pine' blacks are actually quite nice (present in some NeXT boards and some made in Japan big-foot old logo Dell).

Well, I don't know what bamboo versions of these switches are. But Blue will probably be best for the clicky switches. Coil springs can be cheap so I will try to compare them to authentic Blue Alps coil springs.
I need some loose switches of SKCM Blue, Orange and Green. If anybody would ship me some, I would gladly appreciate it! I'm sure chyros would approve of this. XD

[IBMPCDOS5]

Wow, Great idea! maybe drop the idea of recreating the lesser switches and keep it to: SKCM Blue, SKCM Orange and SKCL Green;which are arguably the most highly accoladed switches in each category. Just to keep the cost down. If you can manage to pull this off, and keep the cost relatively low, matias will have some stiff competition!

Very good idea. I just like the sound of White Alps a bit more. I do have some ways of making these switches. For instance my dad works in metal shops and 3D printing. I can 3D print the sliders and well as the housing, (it's gonna be translucent,). I could also ask if he could make me tactile and click leafs. As for SKCM Green, it'll probably be the cheapest to make.

Great idea, I'll support by my wallet, plus I'll spread the news if older Alps clones are really properly re-created, even with Cherry keycap attachment stem and Cherry pin-out.

Please remember, only create those 'pine' switches (with the 'slits' in the top switch housing), the 'bamboo' switches are of much worse key feel. Though also quite heavy, Alps 'pine' blacks are actually quite nice (present in some NeXT boards and some made in Japan big-foot old logo Dell).

Well, I don't know what bamboo versions of these switches are. But Blue will probably be best for the clicky switches. Coil springs can be cheap so I will try to compare them to authentic Blue Alps coil springs.
I need some loose switches of SKCM Blue, Orange and Green. If anybody would ship me some, I would gladly appreciate it! Please PM me if you want to. You can also add some keycaps if you want.  I'm sure chyros would approve of this. XD

[IBMPCDOS5]

Hey, a small update. I now have a Pateron. This is to ensure that I get money to make the switches. Here it is: https://www.patreon.com/user?u=4561341

[drevyek]

3D printing isn't really going to work. Think about how 3D printing works, and you'll realize that you can maybe 3D print a prototype, it'll feel like horse ****. The slider will have ridges every which way, and will have huge tolerance issues. Casting is the only way to really proceed.

Pine vs Bamboo is the use of small slits in the top casing of Alps switches. Newer switches (simplified, etc) don't have these. I have no idea how the slit can have such an affect, but it really seems to. I assume there is more to it, but that is to be determined (Hypersphere?)

Building these switches is not going to be easy. If you want to make the switches MX compatible, look at the i-rocks did with their new switch, which is similar in idea to what you're saying. To do this correctly would take a great deal of R&D to iterate with: multiple small variations to the tactile leaf, ensuring it is correct in each case; small changes to the geometry of the sliders to accommodate the keycap: this is all hard to do. Things like getting the switchplate right is easier said than done.

You'll need to be pretty dedicated to pull it off, and I wish you all the luck in the world. I would love for this to actually happen- I love the feeling of Alps, and getting newly made, high quality Alps-likes would be exquisite.

Hell, just designing a case that is a bit bigger to accommodate a cherry-style slider would be neat.

[Fictiouz]

3D printing isn't really going to work. Think about how 3D printing works, and you'll realize that you can maybe 3D print a prototype, it'll feel like horse ****. The slider will have ridges every which way, and will have huge tolerance issues. Casting is the only way to really proceed.

Pine vs Bamboo is the use of small slits in the top casing of Alps switches. Newer switches (simplified, etc) don't have these. I have no idea how the slit can have such an affect, but it really seems to. I assume there is more to it, but that is to be determined (Hypersphere?)

Building these switches is not going to be easy. If you want to make the switches MX compatible, look at the i-rocks did with their new switch, which is similar in idea to what you're saying. To do this correctly would take a great deal of R&D to iterate with: multiple small variations to the tactile leaf, ensuring it is correct in each case; small changes to the geometry of the sliders to accommodate the keycap: this is all hard to do. Things like getting the switchplate right is easier said than done.

You'll need to be pretty dedicated to pull it off, and I wish you all the luck in the world. I would love for this to actually happen- I love the feeling of Alps, and getting newly made, high quality Alps-likes would be exquisite.

Hell, just designing a case that is a bit bigger to accommodate a cherry-style slider would be neat.

I swear you are awake at the weirdest hours..

[devbryce]

I hate it when people title threads with  "An Idea" or "I have an idea".

I 100% do not trust anyone that does this w/ my money.

I have ideas all the time, but that doesn't mean they are good.

Next time you have an idea that you want people to give you money for, spend some time figuring out the details. Write up a proposal/IC and then show off your idea with a title that we can understand.

[chyros]

I hate it when people title threads with  "An Idea" or "I have an idea".

You'd like Dragons' Den  ) .

[tp4tissue]

I hate it when people title threads with  "An Idea" or "I have an idea".

I 100% do not trust anyone that does this w/ my money.

I have ideas all the time, but that doesn't mean they are good.

Next time you have an idea that you want people to give you money for, spend some time figuring out the details. Write up a proposal/IC and then show off your idea with a title that we can understand.

/Ripster is that chu'

[koduh]

Haha, nope. Just a long time lurker that hasn't ever commented. But "I have an idea" threads are starting to drive me crazy both here and on /r/mechanicalkeyboards.

[drevyek]

Haha, nope. Just a long time lurker that hasn't ever commented. But "I have an idea" threads are starting to drive me crazy both here and on /r/mechanicalkeyboards.

I hate it when people title threads with  "An Idea" or "I have an idea".

I 100% do not trust anyone that does this w/ my money.

I have ideas all the time, but that doesn't mean they are good.

Next time you have an idea that you want people to give you money for, spend some time figuring out the details. Write up a proposal/IC and then show off your idea with a title that we can understand.

hmmmmmmmm

[pixelpusher]

I think what you're seeing is a consensus that this would be a difficult, lengthy, expensive process, but most seem to like the concept behind it.  That's what people told Elon Musk when he wanted to build his own rockets.  So, there's hope ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I like the idea as well, and if you ever came to market with such a switch I would definitely buy it.  Maybe you could get Cooler Master or another OEM to buy it.  I don't know what will come of their venture with Topre switches since they announced the discontinuation of the Novatouch.  Either it didn't sell well or they are going to add RGB to it and refresh. 

[IBMPCDOS5]

Well if you want to help me make these switches, consider supporting me on Patreon! I can't just magically make these unfortunately and i need some money for this project.
Thanks!
~IBMPCDOS5

[y11971alex]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

This sound very attractive if we can recreate beamsprings, the patent on which has long expired.  If we find 100 future users each willing to pitch in $100, then we're set forever for cheap beamsprings that don't need extensive restoration and xwhatsit-modding.  This will be game-changing for Razer and Corsair. 

[KatzenKinder]

Well if you want to help me make these switches, consider supporting me on Patreon! I can't just magically make these unfortunately and i need some money for this project.
Thanks!
~IBMPCDOS5

Have you shown any planning beyond what you've written here? If not, it's way too early to be asking for any kind of financial support, like devbryce said. Very few will be willing to support you, especially without being involved in the community (gh at least) with money for a substantial period of time. Even moreso when there are others who have proven records of bringing products into existence; you need to show that you know what you're doing.

[tp4tissue]

Well if you want to help me make these switches, consider supporting me on Patreon! I can't just magically make these unfortunately and i need some money for this project.
Thanks!
~IBMPCDOS5

Have you shown any planning beyond what you've written here? If not, it's way too early to be asking for any kind of financial support, like devbryce said. Very few will be willing to support you, especially without being involved in the community (gh at least) with money for a substantial period of time. Even moreso when there are others who have proven records of bringing products into existence; you need to show that you know what you're doing.

In this case:

For $10,000...  complete cad drawings.. and an associate that speaks fluent Chinese (with plenty of free time)...

[chyros]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

This sound very attractive if we can recreate beamsprings, the patent on which has long expired.  If we find 100 future users each willing to pitch in $100, then we're set forever for cheap beamsprings that don't need extensive restoration and xwhatsit-modding.  This will be game-changing for Razer and Corsair.

I don't think you could make these in any production keyboard. Aren't there standards for how tall a keyboard is supposed to be? Oo

[y11971alex]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

This sound very attractive if we can recreate beamsprings, the patent on which has long expired.  If we find 100 future users each willing to pitch in $100, then we're set forever for cheap beamsprings that don't need extensive restoration and xwhatsit-modding.  This will be game-changing for Razer and Corsair.

I don't think you could make these in any production keyboard. Aren't there standards for how tall a keyboard is supposed to be? Oo

Well then ask the cashiers, whose keyboards are around 8" off the desk.  I don't think they made it illegal to make a keyboard that's too tall anyway.

[IBMPCDOS5]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

This sound very attractive if we can recreate beamsprings, the patent on which has long expired.  If we find 100 future users each willing to pitch in $100, then we're set forever for cheap beamsprings that don't need extensive restoration and xwhatsit-modding.  This will be game-changing for Razer and Corsair.

I don't think you could make these in any production keyboard. Aren't there standards for how tall a keyboard is supposed to be? Oo

Oh jeez, now chyros' in this! Well, I'm not trying to recreate beamsprings. That would honestly be a bit too much of a hassle. Although I did like the sound of them without the clicker on, I feel that focusing on one brand at a time will do. I will make them if I make enough money/have enough support.

Well if you want to help me make these switches, consider supporting me on Patreon! I can't just magically make these unfortunately and i need some money for this project.
Thanks!
~IBMPCDOS5

Have you shown any planning beyond what you've written here? If not, it's way too early to be asking for any kind of financial support, like devbryce said. Very few will be willing to support you, especially without being involved in the community (gh at least) with money for a substantial period of time. Even moreso when there are others who have proven records of bringing products into existence; you need to show that you know what you're doing.

True, very true. And to answer your question, I am working on this project. With break coming up in a few days I can work much more often on this project. For instance, I plan to start sketching out the basic shape for as well click/tactile leaf as well as the housing and the slider. These will be a bit challenging without actual switches to go off of. But, when I get the dimensions of them, I will begin to 3D Model sketches.
~IBMPCDOS5

[Data]

This is a decent idea but it's little more than that. And the fact that you're already trying to collect money is a HUGE red flag. Until you've done exhaustive research, R&D, and invested a bunch of your own money into this idea, I wouldn't give you a dime. Prove your commitment before you ask others to commit.

[drevyek]

you can get the whole mold and process done in China for $10,000 USD

This sound very attractive if we can recreate beamsprings, the patent on which has long expired.  If we find 100 future users each willing to pitch in $100, then we're set forever for cheap beamsprings that don't need extensive restoration and xwhatsit-modding.  This will be game-changing for Razer and Corsair.

This would be great, but the board would be massive. Maybe shorten the mechanism?

[y11971alex]

This is a decent idea but it's little more than that. And the fact that you're already trying to collect money is a HUGE red flag. Until you've done exhaustive research, R&D, and invested a bunch of your own money into this idea, I wouldn't give you a dime. Prove your commitment before you ask others to commit.

To be realistic, we can't demand to see his financial commitment.  It's only possible if he's a publicly traded company.  But there needs to be convincing evidence that there is activity leading to the fruition of the product in a reasonable timeframe.

[tp4tissue]

The only thing we've established so far is.. 

Don't start threads with  --  I have an idea  --

[Tuntematon]

Because I am emulating the SKCM Alps, White Zens will feel a bit scratchier then Blue Zens, and a bit higher pitched, in nature to authentic Alps.
Do you think I should go through with this? Let me know!
-IBMPCDOS5

I have to say, I have serious doubts about you, OP. You have two switches. One is the superior original design, the other is the good and very similiar, but noticeably inferior successor. And you want to reproduce both. Why? This defies logic.

[YoshiCaps]

Because I am emulating the SKCM Alps, White Zens will feel a bit scratchier then Blue Zens, and a bit higher pitched, in nature to authentic Alps.
Do you think I should go through with this? Let me know!
-IBMPCDOS5

I have to say, I have serious doubts about you, OP. You have two switches. One is the superior original design, the other is the good and very similiar, but noticeably inferior successor. And you want to reproduce both. Why? This defies logic.

yeah. its a good dream, but its not a permant thing

[fohat.digs]

I hate it when people title threads with  "An Idea" or "I have an idea".

I hate any thread title that is not at least minimally descriptive of the actual content.

One of my all-time favorite quotes, from jazz bassist Charles Mingus (commenting on "free jazz"):

"I can improvise on  anything  but I can't improvise on nothing."

[IBMPCDOS5]

I'm back! This is an update in which I was a bit skeptical to post, but I'll fill you in.

For those who think this is a scam, let me say something. This is not a scam. But I really need loose switches of the following:
Alps SKCL Green
Alps SKCM Orange
Alps SKCM Blue
I cannot go off of assumptions to create a tactile and clicky switches. A linear switch MAY be possible off of assumptions, but I want one to make a switchplate. If anyone who lives in the US (preferably Illinois) would like to ship me those switches, please PM or email me at ibmpcdos5@gmail.com. If you don't live in the US and you still wanna send me some, please let me know via PM or at the email provided above. For every Alps switch I receive, I will ship the clones equivalent back to you. Thanks!
~IBMPCDOS5