United Airlines Sky Fascist Police Brutality

[dantan]

Am surprised that the forced 'reaccommodation' incident hasn't been commented on geekhack yet.

I thought every one has an opinion here?

Not going to reiterate facts since they should be available to anyone who hasn't been living under a rock these few days.

Here goes:

I think airlines have gotten so used to treating people badly, that they think that they can force paid, boarded passengers off a flight with violence without bothering to make a serious effort to secure volunteers.

Offering people $800 in vouchers is nothing when it's the last Sunday night flight and everyone needs to be at work on Monday. The average US doctor will already lose more than $800 in lost income for turning up at work in the late afternoon instead of on time Monday morning.

$800 in vouchers won't even guarantee you a flight last minute nowadays. If they'd offered a guaranteed un-bumpable priority ticket first thing on Monday, a hotel room for Sunday night and $200 cash up front that might work better.

And I'm sick of security thugs everywhere. You name it, there are security thugs and turkey bacons in just about every building and public venue now and these guys always seem to be picking on the people least able to fight them.

Like the way they violently grabbed and dragged a 69 year old bespectacled, non violent, perfectly civil doctor out of his seat and bashed his face. Even your low IQ thug can tell that this is not a threatening man, he's not drunk or on drugs or mentally ill, so wtf are you getting all Gestapo for? He didn't tell you to f off, he told you he was a doctor who needed to see patients. Where's the provocation in that? If the police did that to a black man, there would be riots.

You never hear of turkey bacons intervening when there's a shooter on the loose. Only real police can handle that. And terrorists know it, so the presence of Turkey Bacon doesn't deter terrorism at all.

Sick of airlines, sick of flying, sick of fascist security thugs and sick of the entire 'we do as we please and you gotta suck your thumb' mentality of modern travel.

[FrostyToast]

Is it that hard to know you need seats for crew and tape up signs that say "reserved"?
I honestly can't believe that there weren't prior procedures made to ensure that their employees could be guaranteed their seats.

Though, we should consider the fact that United Airlines is in the middle when it comes to forced reaccomodation and other airlines do this sort of stuff more regularly than they do.
The virality of this incident can probably be attributed to the ease of being able to record these types of incidents with one's smartphone, which before, was far more uncommon.
Viral videos on these sorts of incidents only just recently began to pop up and spread and it's not like the world got any worse overnight, it's simply that this stuff was happening and we couldn't see it.

This really isn't an issue to do with United Airlines specifically, but just the tradition of all airlines being able to aggressively overbook flights to ensure that they get the most value possible.
Furthermore, you can't put too much blame on them because it is profitable and entirely within their right by the law to force people off planes for whatever reasons they choose.

I can definitely say that this practice of overbooking being allowed is quite unacceptable. Airlines, as service companies, are obligated to provide the best service possible without inconveniencing their customers. For a service company to profit from purposely inconveniencing their customers, that is absolutely disgusting.

Conversely, with all that being said, due to the people themselves cancelling their flights and being either too inconsiderate to or forced to miss a flight, many flights could have a gross excess of empty seats to the point where it's terrible for business and not very resource friendly either.

[fanpeople]

Be Australian....

Travel regularly, security are respectful and helpful. Plane is generally never full. On the occasion that plane could not make connection, was offered free accommodation, $50 for the bar, Cabcharge to cover travel costs and flight next day even though it was not the airlines fault. This was organised before I got on the first plane and ended up stranded at the next airport.

I feel for you guys, I think there is this us vs them mentality when it comes to anyone in a position of control in United States (I am sure its not like that everywhere). At the same time I believe that generally the people that they give those jobs to are not the most intellectually nimble either so they seem to default to tard-person handling. Same with your cops. I knew someone who was tackled to the ground when in the US because the cop was looking for someone who had robbed something and they kinda looked similar. I get your cops face a higher degree of people packing heat, at the same time I consider the aforementioned action by the cop as assaulting an innocent person. Just because there is a possible threat, does not create this situation where a police officer can go around roughhousing randoms in the street. But if you act the twat towards police then I have no sympathy for you if the cop snaps and gives you a beat down, they are not pin cushions for your own masculine insecurities (Australia looking at you).

Same as your plane incident, the airline put themselves in that situation, it should have been up to them to resolve the matter without the option of using security. It should not be legal for them to use security if the customer remains civil during the situation. It is an administrative problem not a disturbance. The airline needs to bite the bullet and come up with an arrangement to free up the required seats. Even if they lose money.

Honestly if they could have found a volunteer yeah great, but if they could not and all the passengers were boarded then they should just suck it up and reschedule their staff travel. Regardless of how important they think their travel needs are, it is no different to anyone else in a business situation where last minute travel is required. Anyway, everyone has a price and on a plane of 300 people I am sure an arrangement could be made if say a pilot needed to get to a destination to fly another plane if the original pilot had some issue arise causing them to be incapable of working that day. EVERYONE HAS A PRICE, I AM SURE AN AIRLINE COULD EASILY MEET IT.

It comes down to arrogance, lack of customer focus, entitlement and ****head dropkick security guards that lack training and an IQ above 80. I hope the guy wins in court, I hope the cost is substantial, I hope that the airline learns from this and never does it again. I hope they look at their security SOPs and make the ****s sit through a week of power point presentations. BECAUSE **** POWER POINT.

[atarione]

flying is in general a total ****show ... I really dread it.. even flying first class isn't that great most of the time (except of course for endless** within reason booze)

i'm pretty big 250lbs and 6'2" being scrunched into economy class seating makes me pretty grumpy..

[tp4tissue]

This discussion just demonstrates how little you people understand math..

The seating arrangement is oversold nearly 100% of the time, because exactly almost 100% of those times someone doesn't show up.


In the Rare case that EVERYONE shows up,  they have to kick someone off the plane..



This is a statistical matter and designed to maximize fuel/ expense economy of the Flight industry..


IT HAS TO WORK THIS WAY,  otherwise they will be losing out on a sizable portion of potential revenue..




where's digi,  he should be here with another equation .. jahahahahjaajjajaajajajhahahahahha

[fanpeople]

This discussion just demonstrates how little you people understand math..

The seating arrangement is oversold nearly 100% of the time, because exactly almost 100% of those times someone doesn't show up.


In the Rare case that EVERYONE shows up,  they have to kick someone off the plane..



This is a statistical matter and designed to maximize fuel/ expense economy of the Flight industry..


IT HAS TO WORK THIS WAY,  otherwise they will be losing out on a sizable portion of potential revenue..




where's digi,  he should be here with another equation .. jahahahahjaajjajaajajajhahahahahha

And there is nothing wrong with that, but there are ways to deal with the situation without physically throwing around passengers, I don't think bumping passengers is the issue people have with the situation. Its the fact that the guy was already seated and then roughhoused out of the plane.

Over booking can be sorted at check-in before the excess passengers are actually physically sitting in the plane, because computer systems. No shows can be negated with cancellation no-refund policies, airlines also sell flexable tickets that can be changed but they generally cost more and I doubt those flights get changed that much so that is money in the bank. There is nothing wrong with the over booking thing as long as its not excessively done. For example selling 1000 tickets for a plane that can only seat 300. 

But didn't they kick the guy off because of last minute staff flight requirements and a lack of asking for volunteers/negotiating some form of compensation, not strictly because of over booking.

Tp get out of the cherry fields. STOP PICKING THEM CHERRIES BOI. GIVE ME BACK MA CHERRIES.

[dantan]

This discussion just demonstrates how little you people understand math..

How about this, Apple Computer takes preorders for iphone10.

They receive more orders than they can fill as usual. All orders prepaid using credit card.

After waiting in line for hours, you get to the front, take your iphone, and am about to leave the store when suddenly some employees of an Apple Affiliated Company muscle in front of you and declare that by some unexplained selection mechanism, Apple now decides that the iphone is theirs because Apple affiliated employees need the iphone10 to work, and you must go back to the end of the line.

You resist and get bashed when the Apple Security Guards show up.

TP gets a broken nose, and we all tell TP that he doesn't know math.

[tp4tissue]

This discussion just demonstrates how little you people understand math..

The seating arrangement is oversold nearly 100% of the time, because exactly almost 100% of those times someone doesn't show up.


In the Rare case that EVERYONE shows up,  they have to kick someone off the plane..



This is a statistical matter and designed to maximize fuel/ expense economy of the Flight industry..


IT HAS TO WORK THIS WAY,  otherwise they will be losing out on a sizable portion of potential revenue..




where's digi,  he should be here with another equation .. jahahahahjaajjajaajajajhahahahahha

And there is nothing wrong with that, but there are ways to deal with the situation without physically throwing around passengers, I don't think bumping passengers is the issue people have with the situation. Its the fact that the guy was already seated and then roughhoused out of the plane.

Over booking can be sorted at check-in before the excess passengers are actually physically sitting in the plane, because computer systems. No shows can be negated with cancellation no-refund policies, airlines also sell flexable tickets that can be changed but they generally cost more and I doubt those flights get changed that much so that is money in the bank. There is nothing wrong with the over booking thing as long as its not excessively done. For example selling 1000 tickets for a plane that can only seat 300. 

But didn't they kick the guy off because of last minute staff flight requirements and a lack of asking for volunteers/negotiating some form of compensation, not strictly because of over booking.

Tp get out of the cherry fields. STOP PICKING THEM CHERRIES BOI. GIVE ME BACK MA CHERRIES.

There's a -better way- , but always in hindsight..

These are people we're dealing with, not Machines programmed with Perfect virtue..

Fighting / war/ selfishness/   are to be expected..

[tp4tissue]

This discussion just demonstrates how little you people understand math..

How about this, Apple Computer takes preorders for iphone10.

They receive more orders than they can fill as usual. All orders prepaid using credit card.

You resist and get bashed when the Apple Security Guards show up.

it's wrong for the security to fight..  But everything else is correct..


this is the fault of security, or the security's management, not apple or their booking .

[fanpeople]

There's a -better way- , but always in hindsight..

These are people we're dealing with, not Machines programmed with Perfect virtue..

Fighting / war/ selfishness/   are to be expected..

See I am pretty sure other Airlines have methods to deal with situations like this peacefully already, so its a lack of preparation or someone was not following the proper process/was not taught said process and they resorted to calling security. I am sure this airline has dealt with situation before without this happening.

Everyone is entitled to mistakes, it is how we learn and as I said; I hope they learn from this and it does not happen again but we are talking about a person getting on a plane. We are not talking about teenagers working thorough their hormonal phase of life.

There is an expectation and that is that a person holding a legitimate role in the eyes of the government (ie a security guard) will not use force unless in self defence or in the event that the situation cannot be resolved without its application. For example if a group of hippies jumped the fence and made a daisy chain of unwashed bodies around the plane preventing its departure, thus preventing 300 people from getting to where they have to be. I would expect, the Police to be called and for a hippie beat down to take place (not really, but I would expect the police to remove them and by force if necessary even if they are being peaceful). This would be justified because firstly the hippies had illegally entered the area, secondly they are messing with hundreds of people which have places to be and thirdly because it is dangerous on a runway and the hippes/other people could get hurt killed.

Another example, I do not expect the police to break down my door and search my house for drugs... why because I have none, I have not given them any reason to suspect that I have any and if they did it would be because someone has ****ed up either the house number or they had not investigated correctly. Legitimate organisation in the eyes of the government = expectation of a standard. Now thats not to say this wont happen but if it did there would be repercussions ie I would squeal to the media and get a lawyer.

Now I do expect some little **** in my area to break into my house and steal my ****, because they are not part of a legitimate organisation/acting under the authority of a legitimate organisation. Thus I expect the little ****s to act selfishly and maybe try to use violence to get out of the situation.

That is (in my opinion) the difference in expectation

Catching plane = expecting not to get a beatdown, delaying plane because jobless hippe = expect a beatdown.

**************TEXT WALL YAY, I am ****ing bored.***********************************

[tp4tissue]

That is (in my opinion) the difference in expectation

Catching plane = expecting not to get a beatdown, delaying plane because jobless hippe = expect a beatdown.

There's an issue with making arbitrary dividers on how people of or outside the government should behave

Police brutality happens. Not because there's a book teaching cops to beat the black minority.  Rather, it's just a matter of SOME PEOPLE being racists.

And in the population of all active officers 44,000..  There's bound to be several racist bigoted officers..

You can't avoid that by virtues or rules..

It's a statistical certainty that with so many people which serve a nearly identical category, that we have some bad guys.

[fanpeople]

That is (in my opinion) the difference in expectation

Catching plane = expecting not to get a beatdown, delaying plane because jobless hippe = expect a beatdown.

There's an issue with making arbitrary dividers on how people of or outside the government should behave

Police brutality happens. Not because there's a book teaching cops to beat the black minority.  Rather, it's just a matter of SOME PEOPLE being racists.

And in the population of all active officers 44,000..  There's bound to be several racist bigoted officers..

You can't avoid that by virtues or rules..

It's a statistical certainty that with so many people which serve a nearly identical category, that we have some bad guys.

I totally agree and that is a very valid point. But the police thing is just an example of how i perceive the difference between what occurred and what should have occurred. We still should not expect to be assaulted when simply trying to catch a flight and the airline ends up in a position where they have to cull some customers. As I said its an administrate issue, not a disobedience problem (like a drunken person abusing the airline staff then refusing to leave).

I guess what I am trying to say is that the plane incident shouldn't have happened and most people expect that the issue would not be dealt with the way it was. I would say that fact is evident by the backlash that has occurred.

I think we are starting to go down the old rabbit hole here hahah with a side issue.

Fact is airline ****ed up, security ****ed up and the incident should not have been resolved in the way it was.

NO MORE RABBIT HOLE PLS BAE. CANT WE JUST HAVE A NICE DINNER FOR ONCE>



 

[kurplop]

I think that the airline could have avoided the problem by not limiting the compensation for passengers being bumped. Most of us have a price and when it gets into the thousands, it's likely that they would have found enough takers. This would allow for the efficient practice of overbooking, which keeps fares low, and avoids the problem of forced removal.

I do think the passenger was more than partly culpable in this incident. Resistance like what he exhibited, affects all of the passengers, causes delays and further scheduling issues. There are times when showing deference to others is more important than our individual concerns. Nobody likes getting bumped but he could have reduced that risk by buying a more expensive ticket. His cheap ticketing preference is no excuse for anarchy. He should not have caused an incident on the plane but instead, later taken legal action if appropriate.

The initial reports seemed to not emphasize the importance of getting the crew to the other location. Failure to do so could have caused even greater passenger inconveniences. This is not to say that the airline handled the situation properly and I'm sure actions will be taken to prevent this kind of thing from happening that way in the future.

[fanpeople]

I think that the airline could have avoided the problem by not limiting the compensation for passengers being bumped. Most of us have a price and when it gets into the thousands, it's likely that they would have found enough takers. This would allow for the efficient practice of overbooking, which keeps fares low, and avoids the problem of forced removal.

I do think the passenger was more than partly culpable in this incident. Resistance like what he exhibited, affects all of the passengers, causes delays and further scheduling issues. There are times when showing deference to others is more important than our individual concerns. Nobody likes getting bumped but he could have reduced that risk by buying a more expensive ticket. His cheap ticketing preference is no excuse for anarchy. He should not have caused an incident on the plane but instead, later taken legal action if appropriate.

The initial reports seemed to not emphasize the importance of getting the crew to the other location. Failure to do so could have caused even greater passenger inconveniences. This is not to say that the airline handled the situation properly and I'm sure actions will be taken to prevent this kind of thing from happening that way in the future.

OF COURSE IT DIDN'T BECAUSE NEWS> NEWS EXISTS TO GET AN EMOTIONAL REACTION OUT OF PEOPLE THUS THEY SWING THE STORY> I DOUBT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TAKE LEGAL ACTION BECUASE TECHNICALLY NOTHING WRONG WOULD HAVE TAKEN PLACE

BUT YOU RAISE A VERY VALID POINT, AS A DOCTOR HE COULD HAVE PURCHASED A MORE SECURE TICKET THAT GUARANTEED HIS PASSAGE> ESPECIALLY IF HE HAD PATIENTS TO ATTEND TO

BUT STILL AIRLINE DONE GOOFED AND DUG A COSY PIT TO SLEEP IN FOR A WHILE.

 

[kurplop]

OF COURSE IT DIDN'T BECAUSE NEWS> NEWS EXISTS TO GET AN EMOTIONAL REACTION OUT OF PEOPLE THUS THEY SWING THE STORY
 

I agree. But then I would have agreed with you even if you weren't yelling at me.