Author Topic: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?  (Read 2344 times)

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Offline strider8

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Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 14:46:45 »
I'm just curious if there any owners of both in here and someone can comment as to what the prefer. I want the HHKB from a "cool elite hacker crew" perspective but the FC just seems more functional to me with a normal layout, so I wouldn't have to go through the annoying process of learning a new layout.

Also IMO what do you guys think after trying both feels better? Which is your go to daily driver?

Offline Kilgarah

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 15:00:38 »
I'm just curious if there any owners of both in here and someone can comment as to what the prefer. I want the HHKB from a "cool elite hacker crew" perspective but the FC just seems more functional to me with a normal layout, so I wouldn't have to go through the annoying process of learning a new layout.

Also IMO what do you guys think after trying both feels better? Which is your go to daily driver?
I own both, and I prefer the 660C, solely because of how it feels (I have nothing against the HHKB layout). The metal backplate just makes it feel much more solid.

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Offline WheresTheSNES

  • Posts: 51
Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 22 August 2018, 21:44:56 »
Don't have both, but love the FC660C.  I've compared to Realforce RGB and it is considerably better.  A touch more resistance and better sound and better keycaps obviously.  Pretty thocky.  Layout rules.

Offline Polymer

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 23 August 2018, 07:24:57 »
I'm just curious if there any owners of both in here and someone can comment as to what the prefer. I want the HHKB from a "cool elite hacker crew" perspective but the FC just seems more functional to me with a normal layout, so I wouldn't have to go through the annoying process of learning a new layout.

Also IMO what do you guys think after trying both feels better? Which is your go to daily driver?

Feel will be very subjective....the 660c will have less thock and feel less organic than the HHKB..but a bit more thocky than the RF...It is a pretty good middle ground.  Which feels better to me?  HHKB...but I'd be perfectly happy with the 660c/RF as well...

The main reason to go with the 660c is, as you said, the layout...far easier to get used to for most people....you can change the ctrl/caps lock too which is nice.

I will say, the \ as backspace on the HHKB is really nice..but it does taking a bit of getting used to...and then of course the arrow keys which I think are better on the 660c but when you get used to using it on the HHKB, they're very functional and fine...

I almost got rid of my HHKB mainly because of the backspace...because I had issues going back and forth between the HHKB and any other keyboard...but eventually it became very natural and not something I had to think about when changing over....I figure it is just like learning a new keyboard layout or learning to drive on the other side of the road....your brain just ends up getting it after awhile and the transition becomes easy...

So which do I like better?  HHKB....which will provide a much easier transition?  660c hands down...

Offline Blue_Moon

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 27 August 2018, 17:03:01 »
i've owned both, but i sold my f660c before i got my hhkb. i vastly prefer the hhkb. people focus too much on the switch. topre is nice, but there's much more to the hhkb. the control key in place of caps lock is a win (i question any keyboard that leaves caps lock in such a valuable space). also the esc and backspace keys are one row closer on the hhkb

Offline Kilgarah

  • Posts: 41
Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 27 August 2018, 17:05:02 »
i've owned both, but i sold my f660c before i got my hhkb. i vastly prefer the hhkb. people focus too much on the switch. topre is nice, but there's much more to the hhkb. the control key in place of caps lock is a win (i question any keyboard that leaves caps lock in such a valuable space). also the esc and backspace keys are one row closer on the hhkb
My 660C came with extra Control and Caps Lock keys in different sizes so that you could switch them, and switching the two keys can be done with one of the dip switches on the back.

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Online nguyenhimself

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 27 August 2018, 21:52:53 »
Well first thing first, can you handle not having the arrow keys? Because that would be the main deal-breaker here.

Moving around with the HHKB's "Control + diamond cluster" is fine, but for me (a macOS user), the arrow keys are frequently used in key combos to select + move text, and it's a hassle adding one more key to a combo like "Option + Shift + Left arrow".

On the FC660C, there's a dip switch to map the Caps Lock key to Control just like the HHKB, and if you want to it's pretty easy mapping the Backslash key to Backspace via software.

Also, there's the HHKB JP, which is just a HHKB in a normal Japan layout, with arrow keys and everything. I'm eyeing a Bluetooth one myself.

« Last Edit: Mon, 27 August 2018, 21:54:29 by nguyenhimself »

Offline Polymer

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 04:12:47 »
The JP layout has a shifted row which takes some getting used to.

I think a lot of people look at the JP layout and think it is going to work out really well because of the arrow keys..but it looks like, from most people's comments, that it rarely does. 

Plus you lose the backspace position (\) which is really good...What you get from the JP in the dedicated arrow keys doesn't make up for the rest of the bad...IMO..

Online nguyenhimself

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 08:44:58 »
The JP layout has a shifted row which takes some getting used to.

I think a lot of people look at the JP layout and think it is going to work out really well because of the arrow keys..but it looks like, from most people's comments, that it rarely does. 

Plus you lose the backspace position (\) which is really good...What you get from the JP in the dedicated arrow keys doesn't make up for the rest of the bad...IMO..

I guess it depends on each person, since it took me just half an hour or so to get comfortable with it when I borrowed one from a friend for a few days.

I guess you're a Windows user? Because I mostly use macOS + occasionally Linux, and the \ key is so useless for me that I've since mapped it to a macro key.

Offline Sup

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 11:42:58 »
Not sure if this also counts but i have a HHKB Pro 1 basically the same as the 2 but no USB hubs. Also had a Realforce 89u steel plate. But the difference between the hhkb and FC660C is the way the switches are integrated. Leopold uses a steel plate to house the switches and it's mounted to the bottom of the case while the HHKB is top mounted to the top part of the case a integrated plastic plate. And they do feel different from each other since the HHKB uses fully plastic. And i would say that the steel plate makes the keyboard feel much better then the top mounted plastic style and more solid.

But at the end of the day it's personal preference witch one you like so it's hard to say what you like. So i would advice to choose one you like for the layout. But don't let the HHKB layout discourage you for using the HHKB. It's layout is much better then the standard layout from a ergonomic stand point.

If this is your first Topre purchase i think you would be happy with either. :)

Offline strider8

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 14:18:36 »
Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to go with the Leopold due to the layout.

Only problem is that I can find them in stock anywhere. Does anyone know if this is a common occurrence and I should just wait?

Offline WheresTheSNES

  • Posts: 51
Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 15:02:19 »
Check widebasket's store on ebay.  Looks like he's got the blue/grey in stock.  Price is jacked up about $10-20 but not extremely gouged. 

Personally I love the beige that I have and do not regret it.  Then again I noticed this item has disappeared from mechanicalkeyboards.com (the beige specifically) so I have no idea what's going on.

I'm not sure how much fc660c has been waxing and waning in stock lately unfortunately. 

Offline Sup

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 28 August 2018, 16:06:05 »
Thanks for the advice guys. I think I'm going to go with the Leopold due to the layout.

Only problem is that I can find them in stock anywhere. Does anyone know if this is a common occurrence and I should just wait?

I would recommend http://www.smartimports.net/ that is where i buy mine straight out of Japan. Also evade tax since you can ask him to lower the package value  ;)

Offline Dext

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #13 on: Wed, 29 August 2018, 10:07:26 »
Hey!
I just come back from korea where I bought a leopold FC660 and I have to say I really like it so far. I also own a FC750R.
For your reference, I bought my Leopold FC660 at 115 000KRW. That's about 90 euros

Offline WheresTheSNES

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 29 August 2018, 12:38:10 »
Hey!
I just come back from korea where I bought a leopold FC660 and I have to say I really like it so far. I also own a FC750R.
For your reference, I bought my Leopold FC660 at 115 000KRW. That's about 90 euros

You got an fc660c?  With the Topre switches?  For like half price?  Usually goes for $240 USD in the states. THe 660M goes for about $110.

Offline Dext

  • Posts: 55
Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 30 August 2018, 07:55:43 »
No it has no topre but red switches

Edit: I realized you were looking for a 660C...
I bought a 660M PD
« Last Edit: Thu, 30 August 2018, 08:05:02 by Dext »

Offline Hypersphere

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #16 on: Sat, 08 September 2018, 15:26:32 »
@strider8: Yes, I have had both. I sold the FC660C, kept the HHKB, and now I have 3 HHKBs -- two for my two workstations at the office and one for my home office. The HHKB is my favorite keyboard.

The FC660C is also an excellent board. It uses plate-mounted Topre switches, which make if feel more solid than the HHKB, which has case-mounted Topre switches. However, I found the plate-mounted Topre switches to be harder on the fingers and more fatiguing for prolonged typing than the more yielding case-mounted switches in the HHKB.

The HHKB has all the features I have come to appreciate in a keyboard. These include a 60% form factor, Topre switches, beautiful dye-sub PBT keycaps, overall appealing style and appearance, and, most of all, the great HHKB layout.

People kept recommending the HHKB to me, but I resisted for a long time, because I thought the layout looked too weird. After finally trying it, I was hooked almost immediately. The location of the left Ctrl and Backspace seemed perfect right away. It took a little longer to become accustomed to the cursor diamond, but now I wouldn't have it any other way. At first, I used remapping software to change the location of the arrow keys, but soon I came back to the default HHKB layout.

I have a large number of keyboards in my collection, and whenever possible, I remap them to the HHKB layout.

Of course, everyone is different. In the end, you will need to try out the keyboards that interest you and select the one that suits you best.




Offline axcoping@gmail.com

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #17 on: Sat, 08 September 2018, 20:59:54 »
I don't have either, but i've also been curious about the HHKB.  I mapped my anne pro to a HHKB style layout to see how it felt.  (I don't code, but i type a couple of thousand words a day). The HHKB layout, specifically the backspace swap and the caps/control swap, immediately felt more comfortable.  If I'm never in a position to purchase one, i don't think I could go back to a standard layout.   I'm typing this on my laptop, and it sucks.

Offline a--m

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #18 on: Sun, 09 September 2018, 18:21:19 »
I own a HHKB and I love writing text on it. About programming I was not able to do the switch from a Planck.

Online tp4tissue

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #19 on: Mon, 10 September 2018, 07:04:28 »
I don't have either, but i've also been curious about the HHKB.  I mapped my anne pro to a HHKB style layout to see how it felt.  (I don't code, but i type a couple of thousand words a day). The HHKB layout, specifically the backspace swap and the caps/control swap, immediately felt more comfortable.  If I'm never in a position to purchase one, i don't think I could go back to a standard layout.   I'm typing this on my laptop, and it sucks.


Sounds like u need..  //==Ergodox--

Offline axcoping@gmail.com

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #20 on: Mon, 10 September 2018, 08:17:22 »
I don't have either, but i've also been curious about the HHKB.  I mapped my anne pro to a HHKB style layout to see how it felt.  (I don't code, but i type a couple of thousand words a day). The HHKB layout, specifically the backspace swap and the caps/control swap, immediately felt more comfortable.  If I'm never in a position to purchase one, i don't think I could go back to a standard layout.   I'm typing this on my laptop, and it sucks.


Sounds like u need..  //==Ergodox--

i'm definitely interested in exploring the split ortho life- but i think i'd start with the iris.

Online Rumblehotep

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #21 on: Mon, 10 September 2018, 11:48:56 »
Prefer HHKB right now but I've had it for longer and have dumped lots of mods on it (bke redux, lubed, silence rings, caps) while my fc660c is still stock for the moment (but that will change eventually).
Layout issues for both are rendered kinda moot with the hasu controller programmability.
The lightness of the hhkb does make it a perfect traveling board.

Offline yuppie

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #22 on: Mon, 10 September 2018, 12:51:20 »
I've had a HHKB in the past and quickly got rid of it because I couldn't handle the layout. I'm so used to arrow keys but thats changing since I've been using the TGR Alice recently.

The 660C was my second topre board and I kept it a long time. Got it lubed by a friend and it was great. Recently, I found that Leopold is selling newer, all black versions of the 660C and I bought one. It doesn't feel as thocky as the old grey one I had and I'm not sure why. I have purple sliders coming and plan on lubing the board too, but I hope the feel of the board improves.

I've also been really interested by the RealForce R2 TKL ANSI. It comes silenced and has less bezel than the 87U. I'm still on the search for a really good topre board. That old grey 660C was great after it was lubed.

Offline 8Bitterness

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 12 September 2018, 21:56:19 »
The HHKB for sure, stuffed with craft foam it's a dream to type on. FC660C is alright but I prefer either a Realforce or a Novatouch. Not too fond of 60% with arrow keys, the diamond keys on the HHKB's fn layer work perfect once you get used to it after a few minues.

Online Rumblehotep

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 13 September 2018, 14:47:17 »
the diamond keys on the HHKB's fn layer work perfect once you get used to it after a few minues.
Been using it in some cramped places lately with little room for a mouse, so the hhkb diamond for arrow keys and qwer/asdf block for mouse control has worked well in a pinch

Offline Polymer

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #25 on: Fri, 14 September 2018, 10:55:51 »
The HHKB for sure, stuffed with craft foam it's a dream to type on. FC660C is alright but I prefer either a Realforce or a Novatouch. Not too fond of 60% with arrow keys, the diamond keys on the HHKB's fn layer work perfect once you get used to it after a few minues.

You got used to it in a few minutes?  That's really good...took me quite a bit longer than that.

Backspace to \, that was almost immediately (although took more than a month to be able to switch back and forth easily).  The arrow keys seem like most people's main complaint and reason why they give up on the HHKB....

It is easy enough to do when you think about it...but doing it naturally without looking and quickly..that was a bit harder..

Offline spiceBar

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Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 16 September 2018, 16:02:26 »
I'm just curious if there any owners of both in here and someone can comment as to what the prefer. I want the HHKB from a "cool elite hacker crew" perspective but the FC just seems more functional to me with a normal layout, so I wouldn't have to go through the annoying process of learning a new layout.

Also IMO what do you guys think after trying both feels better? Which is your go to daily driver?


I have an HHKB Type-S with Hasu's controller, which allows me to completely reconfigure the keyboard.

I almost never use it anymore, and have switched to FC660 instead (I own four of them, 2 x FC660C and 2x 660M). I also use TKLs.

I have tried really hard to adapt to keyboards without arrow keys, in the process creating SpaceFN (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0) and GuiFN (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57723.msg1313182#msg1313182).

I still try to use the HHKB or a pure 60% keyboard from time to time (for example Poker or Poker 2), but the truth is that every time I switch back to a FC660 or a TKL I feel a huge relief.

It took me a lot of time and efforts to realize this:

No arrow keys, no joy.

Offline WheresTheSNES

  • Posts: 51
Re: Does anyone own both a HHKB and a FC660C?
« Reply #27 on: Mon, 17 September 2018, 15:56:07 »
I'm just curious if there any owners of both in here and someone can comment as to what the prefer. I want the HHKB from a "cool elite hacker crew" perspective but the FC just seems more functional to me with a normal layout, so I wouldn't have to go through the annoying process of learning a new layout.

Also IMO what do you guys think after trying both feels better? Which is your go to daily driver?


I have an HHKB Type-S with Hasu's controller, which allows me to completely reconfigure the keyboard.

I almost never use it anymore, and have switched to FC660 instead (I own four of them, 2 x FC660C and 2x 660M). I also use TKLs.

I have tried really hard to adapt to keyboards without arrow keys, in the process creating SpaceFN (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=51069.0) and GuiFN (https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=57723.msg1313182#msg1313182).

I still try to use the HHKB or a pure 60% keyboard from time to time (for example Poker or Poker 2), but the truth is that every time I switch back to a FC660 or a TKL I feel a huge relief.

It took me a lot of time and efforts to realize this:

No arrow keys, no joy.

Agree.  I can manage an arrow cluster on a function layer (60% for example) but it's really just so much nicer to have the arrow cluster.  Also, dedicated delete key is a must for me, mostly for AutoCAD reasons, which is the main reason I don't think I could do the HHKB unless I got the HASU controller.