ErgoDox - Custom split ergo keyboard.

[daerid]

Guys ... guys. It won't work. The switches fit because the 'dox uses a single, flippable PCB. They're going into the same pin.

THE SAME PIN

So you could, as I said over there, do this ... but your kbd would have columns, but no rows. Or possibly the reverse I'm not sure but ... aquakeys would fail this arrangement promptly and soundly.

No compatibility. Collect the pieces of your mind, and kindly reassemble them. Now.

Not quite correct. If you actually look at the traces, each hole on either side goes to the same trace for that side. The pin holes are grouped vertically, not horizontally. It will work.

[MOZ]

It will work, although they aren't "aligned" perfectly, the switch would be slightly rotated clockwise and above the center of the intended center of the MX switch. Basically the distance between the two pin holes matches the distance between the pins on the Alps switch.

[daerid]

Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.

[yasuo]

Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.

On 7bit more cheaper

[MOZ]

Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.

I don't have Alps keycaps to test if the orientation is correct or not, otherwise I might have given this a go

[yasuo]

Well, as Matias switches are $50/100ct it's not gonna cost much to experiment.

I don't have Alps keycaps to test if the orientation is correct or not, otherwise I might have given this a go

Order custom on SP

[Talfrey]

Does anyone know an alternative part to the 3.5mm TRRS plugs?

Digikey is out until February.

Can't find anyone who sells an equivalent to it.

Part in question: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/SJ-43514/CP-43514-ND/368146

[Findecanor]

Does anyone know an alternative part to the 3.5mm TRRS plugs?

I do. I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.
As far as I can tell from datasheets and from fitting them on, they are identical to the CP-43514 except for those extra pins.
I have yet to complete my build with switches and firmware, so I have not tested to be able to confirm 100%. I suggest that you download and compare the datasheets for yourself if you are unsure. It is easy to get confused, though, by different datasheets using different numbering and orientation.

I only got my custom-made plates in the mail today, that I had designed a few months ago. The laser-cutting firm first delayed processing my order over a month, then they goofed the scale and made it much too big, but the result I got today is OK.
Now, with the plates in hand, I can continue with the next step of installing switches and diodes.

[tp4tissue]

Does anyone know an alternative part to the 3.5mm TRRS plugs?

I do. I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.
As far as I can tell from datasheets and from fitting them on, they are identical to the CP-43514 except for those extra pins.
I have yet to complete my build with switches and firmware, so I have not tested to be able to confirm 100%. I suggest that you download and compare the datasheets for yourself if you are unsure. It is easy to get confused, though, by different datasheets using different numbering and orientation.

I only got my custom-made plates in the mail today, that I had designed a few months ago. The laser-cutting firm first delayed processing my order over a month, then they goofed the scale and made it much too big, but the result I got today is OK.
Now, with the plates in hand, I can continue with the next step of installing switches and diodes.

is that part better?  the stock one that comes with the kit is a bit low quality/flimsy

[Talfrey]

http://www.tme.eu/en/details/fc68129/jack-connectors/cliff/

It looks nearly identical from the pictures I have found of it.

Not sure how I feel about it needing pins trimmed, but as it's a TRRS connector, it should only need 2 active pins, the others should be grounding or something.

Any recommendations on where to pick it up?

Can't seem to find it for anything less than 20 bucks shipping, which is several times over the cost of the part.

[Findecanor]

I have soldered on FC68129, but had to snip off a couple of pins that are unused on the ErgoDox.

is that part better?  the stock one that comes with the kit is a bit low quality/flimsy

I don't know. I got it because I could not get the recommended part. They look the same from the outside.

Not sure how I feel about it needing pins trimmed, but as it's a TRRS connector, it should only need 2 active pins, the others should be grounding or something.

There are four signal lines, all of which are needed for the keyboard to function.
The connector is only soldered on, so the more pins it has soldered to the PCB the better it should sit on the PCB. There are five pin holes on the PCB, plus one unused hole because the PCB is symmetric.

[sordna]

For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started  freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?

[Larken]

For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started  freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?

I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.

[tp4tissue]

For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started  freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?

I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.

yup... this trrs connection i think was a bad choice.

We should definitely go with micro usb next time.

[yasuo]

Alternatives should have 4 lines

[jalli]

My vote would be RJ11 based:

It's very common
It's affordable
Easy to make
There is a wide selection of cables available, including retracting, braided and curly
The PCB footprint is fairly similar to the one currently on the ErgoDOX, would not require a major PDB redesign

[Larken]

Its the poor quality of the stock cables included with the kit that's the problem rather than the choice of trrs connectors itself. If the wires used are thin and poorly soldered, even micro usb wouldn't help.

Just make your own trrs cables with better wires. I've yet to have an issue with the connectors using my own cables.

Or alternatively, hardwire the two halves together.

[tp4tissue]

Its the poor quality of the stock cables included with the kit that's the problem rather than the choice of trrs connectors itself. If the wires used are thin and poorly soldered, even micro usb wouldn't help.

Just make your own trrs cables with better wires. I've yet to have an issue with the connectors using my own cables.

Or alternatively, hardwire the two halves together.

The cable is fine.... very hard to break the cable.. the mini plug, plug is sound.. it's the port that's not so great.

It's the connector...

[Glod]

im pretty abusive when it comes to the connectors, i have a keyboard tray thing, its more of a extension of my desk on a arm than it is a traditional slide out tray. I keep ramming my ergo dox into my desk which destroys the cables over time but it also destroys the connectors on the ErgoDox in addition to just trading out keyboards a lot. Ive bought a bunch on digikey; Ive had to replace the TRRS and USB connectors on my ergodox at least 4 times on my white/aluminium ergodox and once on my acrylic fullhand ergodox.
On the white/aluminium one, i replaced the ports recently and its still giving me a problem so i think from all the de-soldering and soldering i damaged the PCB so i either need to fix or replace the pcb i need freaking right angle connectors.....

[yasuo]

My vote would be RJ11 based:

It's very common
It's affordable
Easy to make
There is a wide selection of cables available, including retracting, braided and curly
The PCB footprint is fairly similar to the one currently on the ErgoDOX, would not require a major PDB redesign

DSL

[tp4tissue]

im pretty abusive when it comes to the connectors, i have a keyboard tray thing, its more of a extension of my desk on a arm than it is a traditional slide out tray. I keep ramming my ergo dox into my desk which destroys the cables over time but it also destroys the connectors on the ErgoDox in addition to just trading out keyboards a lot. Ive bought a bunch on digikey; Ive had to replace the TRRS and USB connectors on my ergodox at least 4 times on my white/aluminium ergodox and once on my acrylic fullhand ergodox.
On the white/aluminium one, i replaced the ports recently and its still giving me a problem so i think from all the de-soldering and soldering i damaged the PCB so i either need to fix or replace the pcb i need freaking right angle connectors.....

My right trrs port was became wonky, and my left board kept disconnecting...

So I removed the port and soldered a new one on.. Eventually.. same problem kept occuring..

I tested the cable both times and it functioned solidly even when I twisted it back and forth during testing.


Eventually... I just cut the cable, and soldered it directly to my PCB and now everything has been working perfectly.

They only sell right angle trrs cable with single end that's right angled..

You'd have to buy two of the and use a coupler in the middle.

http://www.unicornelex.com/3_5mm_4_Conductor_TRRS_Audio_Video_Coupler_p/29-5215.htm

[clickclack123]

I concur with rj11 as a good option. Those audio-style connectors like TRRS always seem a bit flaky.

[AKmalamute]

heck USB B uses four wires, too. PCB mount female USB-B connectors seem plentiful, whereas RJ11, a beautiful solution, seems to be falling out of vogue as fewer people rely on landlines for communication. Maybe RJ45 and just ignore the other wires?

[MOZ]

heck USB B uses four wires, too. PCB mount female USB-B connectors seem plentiful, whereas RJ11, a beautiful solution, seems to be falling out of vogue as fewer people rely on landlines for communication. Maybe RJ45 and just ignore the other wires?

Interestingly, on the ErgoT, Regack and I decided to use micro-usb-a, since we had to go for micro-usb-b on the main connector and wanted different connectors, so less chances of error.

[yasuo]

micro usb i think better than mini,not easily separated like on matias
but hard find mivro usb female/connector

[Findecanor]

I was considering, instead of having having a separate USB-cable and a connecting cable use one connector on each keyboard half and a special Y-cable.
The Y-cable would split the USB in two, but be a connecting cable for the two lines needed for I2C.
The cable and connectors would therefore need only six lines, as there is no point in duplicating +5V and GND.
The beauty in this arrangement would be that the cable would be symmetric, at least on the keyboard side - only one plug in either keyboard - and those two are the same plug. I could switch the plugs if I wanted to.

Anyway, it was easier to just give in and use two cables than to find a small flat six-pin connector and have the custom Y-cable made.

[sordna]

For some reason, my ergodox which I'm using for months, started  freezing. It happens 4-5 times a day and the only remedy is to unplug it and plug it back in. Any idea as to why it could be happening ?

I'll start with checking the continuity of the trrs cable.

TRRS cable is fine. I can wiggle the cable and tug on the connectors, and the keyboard types fine throughout all that. It's very odd, since the keyboard is stationary, I'm not moving it around or anything, so there's absolutely no wear on the cables and connectors.
I can't yet explain why it freezes occasionally. Sometimes I leave the computer, come back after a few minutes, and find the keyboard unresponsive. I then unplug/plug it back and all is fine.
It has never done it while I'm actively typing, all the times it froze, I was actually not typing at that moment.

[daerid]

TRRS cable is fine. I can wiggle the cable and tug on the connectors, and the keyboard types fine throughout all that. It's very odd, since the keyboard is stationary, I'm not moving it around or anything, so there's absolutely no wear on the cables and connectors.
I can't yet explain why it freezes occasionally. Sometimes I leave the computer, come back after a few minutes, and find the keyboard unresponsive. I then unplug/plug it back and all is fine.
It has never done it while I'm actively typing, all the times it froze, I was actually not typing at that moment.

Mine just started doing that two days ago. It's very intermittent, but it's damned annoying

[OldDataHands]

Mine just started doing that two days ago. It's very intermittent, but it's damned annoying

ESD can cause strange EMI problems. The discharge doesn't
need to be to/from the keyboard for there to be problems.
One simple way to generate a nice wideband EMI source is
to use a coil/solenoid and energize it with a D-cell battery.
Holding one side of the connection steady, keep making
and breaking the other connection so that you generate sparks.
If you do this near your keyboard and it causes problems then
you have demonstrated an EMC problem, and one possible
reason for the keyboard to experience strange symptoms.

I've heard of products suffering resets and other problems from
simply moving your body on a cloth seat - I've seen this personally
as well. At least here in the frozen north, this time of year is when
these issues will show as the humidity is so low that ESD is much
more frequent and energetic.

Try it out! Post your results!

Another possible solution: Put a humidifier in your room and see
if the problem goes away.

[Larken]

@ sordna and daerid

I'd would check the boards in this order,

trrs connectors, usb connector, then the solder joints for the teensy and the i/o expander.

If you've recently swapped to aluminium top/bottom plates, make sure that nothing (i.e. the mini usb on the teensy) is in contact with the plates.

barring software issues, faulty usb ports on your computers, or actual hardware failure, it appears something is shorting your ergodoxes out. ESD is a possible issue, like OldDatahands have pointed out.

[sordna]

Thank you both.
I believe OldDataHands' theory about ESD is the most plausible. My soldering is impeccable anyway :-)

I'll try to do the ESD experiment, thank you for that tip!

[jalli]

Sounds like we might need to review the PCB and case designs to verify that grounding/shielding works correctly and that we have low impedance ground paths that don't interfere with control circuits and last but not least eliminate grounding loops.

[nerdhack]

Hey, I'm done assembling my ergodox, and have come upon the "left side not working" issue. I read to some threads and followed people's debugging advice, but it's still not working for me. Here's what I've tried:

- Checked all solder joints on connectors, resistors, and IO boards
- Measured VCC across the board, also to the left side, 5v all around
- Checked for continuity between connector pads, all good
- My diodes are correctly oriented on both sides

I'm starting to think "bad IO controller", but I wouldn't know how to verify that. Anything else I should be looking at? Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks

There've been several reports of bad TRRS cables. Don't forget each joint on the teensy headers...

As stated above, I've tested continuity across both boards on all 4 pads. This would only be true if I connected the cable between the boards, right? So I'm ruling out a bad cable.

I also checked the joints on the teensy, especially PD0 and PD1 as stated in another thread.

EDIT: Just figured out something is odd with the right hand side. All the columns are shifted 1 to the right, so on the right hand the rightmost column "doesn't exist" and the leftmost column the middle row is sending a [ character. If this can help to diagnose my case...

I took some pictures of my solder joints. The PCB has a few marks as I soldered the teensy and the IO controller on the wrong sides the first time. The IO controller now on the board is not the first one I used, as that one was too heavily damaged by desoldering, those pins are pretty thin. The headers on the teensy were also replaced. Anyone see anything that I might be missing? Did I just f* it up with all the rework?

Gallery on imgur, didn't want to spam 7 pics inline:
http://imgur.com/a/TySxE

BTW, in retrospect, I'd advise anyone who reads this, that if you end up soldering the diodes and controllers on the same side of the PCB, and want to flip things back the right way, it is IMHO an easier task to desolder the diodes... even though that is not the shortest path by intuition

[OldDataHands]

I took some pictures of my solder joints. The PCB has a few marks as I soldered the teensy and the IO controller on the wrong sides the first time. The IO controller now on the board is not the first one I used, as that one was too heavily damaged by desoldering, those pins are pretty thin. The headers on the teensy were also replaced. Anyone see anything that I might be missing? Did I just f* it up with all the rework?

Gallery on imgur, didn't want to spam 7 pics inline:
http://imgur.com/a/TySxE

BTW, in retrospect, I'd advise anyone who reads this, that if you end up soldering the diodes and controllers on the same side of the PCB, and want to flip things back the right way, it is IMHO an easier task to desolder the diodes... even though that is not the shortest path by intuition

I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Nothing looks alarming to me, but maybe 'cause I can't see much.

Find your local makerspace and have someone help you with
an oscilloscope to see what the I2C bus looks like. You should
see the serial comms traffic on the lines, and it should have nice,
sharp falling edges with no noise. Measure at the I2C pins of the
IOX and at the Teensy. That'll be your guide.
1 of 3 things: Replace Teensy, fix soldering/wires, replace IOX.

[nerdhack]

I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Nothing looks alarming to me, but maybe 'cause I can't see much.

Find your local makerspace and have someone help you with
an oscilloscope to see what the I2C bus looks like. You should
see the serial comms traffic on the lines, and it should have nice,
sharp falling edges with no noise. Measure at the I2C pins of the
IOX and at the Teensy. That'll be your guide.
1 of 3 things: Replace Teensy, fix soldering/wires, replace IOX.

Oops, sorry about that, here is original resolution : http://imgur.com/a/vf8L4

Thanks for the tip about the I2C, I'll look into that and report back.

[clickclack123]

I can't make out much at the resolution of those images...
Nothing looks alarming to me, but maybe 'cause I can't see much.

Find your local makerspace and have someone help you with
an oscilloscope to see what the I2C bus looks like. You should
see the serial comms traffic on the lines, and it should have nice,
sharp falling edges with no noise. Measure at the I2C pins of the
IOX and at the Teensy. That'll be your guide.
1 of 3 things: Replace Teensy, fix soldering/wires, replace IOX.

Oops, sorry about that, here is original resolution : http://imgur.com/a/vf8L4

Thanks for the tip about the I2C, I'll look into that and report back.

Some of the joints to the teensy don't look very good, the solder isn't even going all the way around the pin. It doesn't look bad enough to not work though, I wonder what my solder joints would look like zoomed in that much... 

[AKmalamute]

On a completely different tack, I'm considering putting LEDs into my 'dox board ... but had already sorta slopped a bit too much solder while putting sod-323 SMD diodes at each pin before looking and realizing that, unlike the phantom, the LEDs seem to be instead of diodes ... the other place up near the top is "just" for the resistors (am I right?)

If I want LEDs now, do I have to use this as my left-hand side, and put the SMD diodes on the bottom of both boards, or do I have more alternatives despite my limitations of using a Weller 23PL and not owning a solder-sucker or the like? (note: google doesn't even want to admit I have this thing.)

[MOZ]

On a completely different tack, I'm considering putting LEDs into my 'dox board ... but had already sorta slopped a bit too much solder while putting sod-323 SMD diodes at each pin before looking and realizing that, unlike the phantom, the LEDs seem to be instead of diodes ... the other place up near the top is "just" for the resistors (am I right?)

If I want LEDs now, do I have to use this as my left-hand side, and put the SMD diodes on the bottom of both boards, or do I have more alternatives despite my limitations of using a Weller 23PL and not owning a solder-sucker or the like? (note: google doesn't even want to admit I have this thing.)

I'me quite sure I get what you mean but you can swap the resistor and LED positions.

[AKmalamute]

I'me quite sure I get what you mean but you can swap the resistor and LED positions.

So, just so I don't have to type 2,000 words, this:
Resistor and LED

will work?

[MOZ]

Yes. As long as you have right resistance based on your LED and LED is in right polarity, resistance doesn't have a polarity, so it can be oriented any way you like.

[tp4tissue]

I'm telling you guys, it's the damned trrs.... I got the intermittent issue all the time when I was using it.

When I soldered the wires directly to the board... I've yet to have A SINGLE disconnect.

[justnits]

On a completely different tack, I'm considering putting LEDs into my 'dox board ... but had already sorta slopped a bit too much solder while putting sod-323 SMD diodes at each pin before looking and realizing that, unlike the phantom, the LEDs seem to be instead of diodes ... the other place up near the top is "just" for the resistors (am I right?)

If I want LEDs now, do I have to use this as my left-hand side, and put the SMD diodes on the bottom of both boards, or do I have more alternatives despite my limitations of using a Weller 23PL and not owning a solder-sucker or the like? (note: google doesn't even want to admit I have this thing.)

How are you planning to put LEDs?
I mean, are you planning to put LEDs on every switch?

What I wanted to do is to have a few LEDs shining out at the side of the acrylic case.

Not sure if that is do-able.

[pas008]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

[clickclack123]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).

[kzhk]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

One side can be used alone if it is the side that contains the teensy chip, which is usually the right one. It is possible to put the tensy on the left, it will work except the teensy chip must be mounted upside-down and I don't know if it fits in the case...

[clickclack123]

Found it, it was from a post by morkl on deskthority: http://deskthority.net/post144507.html#p144507

Well, I had to remove some error handling from the firmware to make it work without the TRRS cable

[pas008]

can only one side be used

like flip the right side to make left and use as gamepad?

iso quick response before kit on mass drop closes

I don't have one (in the mail still) but I have read that there is some kind of firmware check for the left side that stops it working. There is a way to remove that by modifying the fw though. I'll have to see if I can find the post, someone said they did this when they had a failing trrs cable or plug (between the hands).

hmm, decisions

[tricheboars]

has anyone tried painting the anodized aluminum top layer massdrop sells with the ergodox? what is the best way to paint anodized aluminum. just buy special spray paint?

[Findecanor]

has anyone tried painting the anodized aluminum top layer massdrop sells with the ergodox? what is the best way to paint anodized aluminum. just buy special spray paint?

There are several brands that have lines of transparent paint specifically intended for colouring bare shiny metal to make it look like colour-anodized aluminium.

If you want a normal finish, brands of car paints often have "Aluminium Primer" as part of their line, but I think they are better on raw aluminium than anodized. Sanding the part (with sandpaper... duh ) is a common method to improve adhesion to primer.

[tlem]

Has anybody had issues with the Massdrop provided leds?  I had a 2 leftover leds from an old group buy, and I suspect that the polarity of these leds are reversed. 

2 massdrop leds on the left. Random yellow led on the right. The cathode (shorter pin and bigger internals) is on the left, correct?


Massdrop led with cathode going to GND.  This should light up, but it doesn't.  If I understand correctly, the cathode of the led should point to ground, and the anode should point to +ve.


Massdrop led with cathode going to VCC.  This shouldn't light up, but it does.


Yellow led with cathode going to GND.  This lights up.  Good.


Yellow led with cathode going to VCC.  This doesn't light up.  Good.


From those tests, it looks like the massdrop leds are incorrect.

Some more proof that the polarity is reversed:  From the assembly instructions, "For SW2:7, SW4:7, and SW5:7, also solder LEDs. Note the polarity of the LED. The long end of the LED connection goes to the square pad on the PCB."  So, they are saying the anode should go to the square pad.  The square pad looks like GND.  See pcb below: