[GB] 16ga metal ergodox cases -- Shipping R2 recommencing

[zflamewing]

Well, that didn't turn out quite like I expected.

I got the quote in from the Portland shop that has a laser and promised to get back to me Friday -- They have, and it's three times the cost of the local shop I dealt with for round 1.

But, if you're in a hurry, I have a contact that can get you a classic case in aluminum for $102 shipped ... Or the full-hand for $107 (stainless costs $107 / $120)

 I'll update this when / if I get the quote from the waterjet place. In the meantime, I guess I should go back to pestering the shop manager of the local shop I've dealt with before.

Are those prices for the full stack or the skeletal design?

[AKmalamute]

Are those prices for the full stack or the skeletal design?

Full stack, 10 layers.

I didn't ask about the minimalist or extended minimalist cases but the savings probably wouldn't be all that substantial, as discovered before.

[agodinhost]

Are those prices for the full stack or the skeletal design?

Full stack, 10 layers.

I didn't ask about the minimalist or extended minimalist cases but the savings probably wouldn't be all that substantial, as discovered before.

$110 bucks seems to be the normal average price, any MOQ?
The plates and the tops would be enough for me. I'm planning to use 3mm rubber sheet into the bottom and spacers layers.
AKmalamute, any chance to get a quote for each layer? I think that the plate, top and bottom (your minimalist idea) are the essentials layers.

[slickmamba]

Any update on custom orders?  I would like 2 of each plate (third layer) instead of the second layer(From the bottom) so that I can put the teensy on the left side

[AKmalamute]

Any update on custom orders?  I would like 2 of each plate (third layer) instead of the second layer(From the bottom) so that I can put the teensy on the left side

The super-expensive piece? If you're going to have the Teensy on the bottom and the switches on the top, you'd be better off with the left lower-spacer being replaced by an extra right upper-spacer ... still ten layers and probably / almost the same cost. (or, could you just swap them since there's no teensy to avoid ...?)

@everyone else:
 I spent a couple hours 'hanging out' with the project manager, and briefly spoke to a couple employees. The laser really is a one point two million USD paperweight right now, because the nitrogen line blew open and they're waiting to fix that before proceeding. The spacer layer is still at the top of the list for when the laser is working.

 I've gone over again with him, what we need quotes on. I think part of his problem on this front is he's not understanding that I can't just guess -- it's not my money I'm playing with and I have to know how much to bill other folks so that their money will be in my hand when the order is done.

 Also they're having personnel problems so he gets getting distracted a lot which doesn't help. Anyway since this shop is much cheaper than the only other shop to respond, I'm going to give him another couple days before giving up on him.

@Agodinhost: the bigger shop didn't mention any MOQ, and I asked specifically about that. If you want, I can get a quote for the extended-minimalst case. What metal? I'll write to them in a few minutes and edit this when I hear back.

[slickmamba]

Any update on custom orders?  I would like 2 of each plate (third layer) instead of the second layer(From the bottom) so that I can put the teensy on the left side

The super-expensive piece? If you're going to have the Teensy on the bottom and the switches on the top, you'd be better off with the left lower-spacer being replaced by an extra right upper-spacer ... still ten layers and probably / almost the same cost. (or, could you just swap them since there's no teensy to avoid ...?)

Haha, that would make more sense.  I wasn't sure how the usb and 3.5mms would fit since I don't have a dox, so I went with the safe route.  I may just try to the the barebone bottom+plate to avoid it all together.(+ maybe a top case)

[agodinhost]

@Agodinhost: the bigger shop didn't mention any MOQ, and I asked specifically about that. If you want, I can get a quote for the extended-minimalst case. What metal? I'll write to them in a few minutes and edit this when I hear back.

I would love to get 5 or 6 using 1.5mm stainless steel, however I'm not sure that I'll have enough money for so many cases. I would prefer one cheaper vendor, It's up to you my friend - IF you do find some spare time, please, go on - otherwise it's okay, never mind. Anyone else is interested in?
 

I'm still trying to see what QWERTim can do for us ...

[dorkvader]

got the pictures up. I recommend sanding the plates a little with rough sandpaper before installation.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157644268864709/

Thanks for the pics.  Looks great!

I personally don't like the internal components exposed so I'm thinking of doing something like
top layer - m3 nut - plate - pcb - 8mm spacer - bottom layer

I'm confused. Isn't that exactly what I have? The first few pictures are from months ago, before the plates were made (to show the difference)

I received a bag of 100 nylon 8mm spacers if you want any.

[AKmalamute]

So, I've received some replies.

The bigger, responsive shop in the big city can do the "extended minimalist" in aluminum for $60/ea to me (so, roughly $80 shipped CONUS) for one ... or sixty three and a quarter (USD 63.25) shipped, if twenty are ordered ($900+ to the shop). SS a proportionate amount more.

Waterjet? As said before (I think) they can't offer the tolerances -- They officially guarantee 0.015" precision but tell me that "most of the time" they can get "pretty close" to half that; seven or eight thousandths of an inch. I have prices from them.
Full kit, ten layers: $32/ea alum, $45/ea stainless -- ASSUMING ten copies ordered. I'm unclear at this moment if a general $350-MOQ amongst the various variations desired is close enough, or if the overhead is specific to each 'kit' -- I'll get clarification. But that would mean, assuming we met that expectation -- $50+shipping for the full-hand stainless steel, 1.5mm slices. Remember these are heavy, so it could conceivably exceed the 4lbs limit imposed on cheap international shipping. Probably $15 CONUS because my own boxes end up being much cheaper than the "any weight flat rate" boxes.

[dorkvader]

$50+shipping for the full-hand stainless steel, 1.5mm slices. Remember these are heavy, so it could conceivably exceed the 4lbs limit imposed on cheap international shipping. Probably $15 CONUS because my own boxes end up being much cheaper than the "any weight flat rate" boxes.

That's fantastic! On the waterjet, if the tolerances aren't good enough, we may consider just a "normal" plate instead of the switch top removal.

[yuiop]

got the pictures up. I recommend sanding the plates a little with rough sandpaper before installation.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dork_vader/sets/72157644268864709/

Thanks for the pics.  Looks great!

I personally don't like the internal components exposed so I'm thinking of doing something like
top layer - m3 nut - plate - pcb - 8mm spacer - bottom layer

I'm confused. Isn't that exactly what I have? The first few pictures are from months ago, before the plates were made (to show the difference)

I received a bag of 100 nylon 8mm spacers if you want any.

You have the bottom layer and the plate separated by 8mm spacers.  I'm going to add another layer on top to cover up the internals.  My teensy is soldered directly on to the PCB so I don't think I'll have a clearance issue.

I ordered some alu spacers from ebay but haven't received it yet.  I might be interested in nylon ones I'll let you know later.  thanks!

[yuiop]

So, I've received some replies.

The bigger, responsive shop in the big city can do the "extended minimalist" in aluminum for $60/ea to me (so, roughly $80 shipped CONUS) for one ... or sixty three and a quarter (USD 63.25) shipped, if twenty are ordered ($900+ to the shop). SS a proportionate amount more.

Waterjet? As said before (I think) they can't offer the tolerances -- They officially guarantee 0.015" precision but tell me that "most of the time" they can get "pretty close" to half that; seven or eight thousandths of an inch. I have prices from them.
Full kit, ten layers: $32/ea alum, $45/ea stainless -- ASSUMING ten copies ordered. I'm unclear at this moment if a general $350-MOQ amongst the various variations desired is close enough, or if the overhead is specific to each 'kit' -- I'll get clarification. But that would mean, assuming we met that expectation -- $50+shipping for the full-hand stainless steel, 1.5mm slices. Remember these are heavy, so it could conceivably exceed the 4lbs limit imposed on cheap international shipping. Probably $15 CONUS because my own boxes end up being much cheaper than the "any weight flat rate" boxes.

I like those waterjet prices! but I'm kinda worried about tolerances.  Have there been any custom plate done by waterjet before?

[AKmalamute]

I like those waterjet prices! but I'm kinda worried about tolerances.  Have there been any custom plate done by waterjet before?

Probably but I can't find an example in GIS right now. The main thing is that the switchtop removal cutouts won't be there. If I emphasize the bolt holes need to line up precisely (and I did, and it didn't draw any attention from the guy looking at the drawings and seeing how big they're not) than everything else should be copacetic.

So, we could proceed right now, full hand same cost as classic, with no switchtop cutouts (or at least not much of them) or we could hold off for the local laser shop to get their laser back to lasing -- or we could go the more expensive route of the shop in the big city.

Both first and last choices there require a fairly big MOQ although nothing a couple weeks of collecting orders wouldn't cover. I'm going to double check my math and update the OP with the waterjet prices.

[tbc]

sign me up for fullhand stainless steel at the water jet.

I was originally planning on all SS, but since I can't seem to get the macbook-like finish I want, I'm going to settle with the massdrop acrylic plate as the highest plate and put a buttload of metal underneath.

EDIT:

I'm actually going to need a bunch of classic SS (10 layers), but I would prefer that THIS plate have switch cutouts just in case.  If we can't get the laser cutter to get us switch cutouts, I'll just buy the cheaper of the two shops (going to assume that it's the waterjet).

[yuiop]

I like those waterjet prices! but I'm kinda worried about tolerances.  Have there been any custom plate done by waterjet before?

Probably but I can't find an example in GIS right now. The main thing is that the switchtop removal cutouts won't be there. If I emphasize the bolt holes need to line up precisely (and I did, and it didn't draw any attention from the guy looking at the drawings and seeing how big they're not) than everything else should be copacetic.

So, we could proceed right now, full hand same cost as classic, with no switchtop cutouts (or at least not much of them) or we could hold off for the local laser shop to get their laser back to lasing -- or we could go the more expensive route of the shop in the big city.

Both first and last choices there require a fairly big MOQ although nothing a couple weeks of collecting orders wouldn't cover. I'm going to double check my math and update the OP with the waterjet prices.

I don't really care about switchtop cutouts.  I'm fine with or without.

Maybe we can proceed with 1st option with waterjet and start collecting orders while you keep bugging the manager at your local laser shop 

[geniekid]

I would prefer stainless steel with cutouts.  However, I will still buy an aluminum case without cutouts if that is more popular.

[AKmalamute]

I would prefer stainless steel with cutouts.  However, I will still buy an aluminum case without cutouts if that is more popular.

Well, I think that's two votes for.

I've just spoken to the guy in the waterjet department of the welding shop -- he thinks that, for the folks that get cases (or especially for 'minimalist' cases) adding JD's spacer in the same metal would be an almost inconsequential cost.

Basically it sounds like set-up cost far outweighs their concern for material costs since they're asking the same for full-hand verses classic. The downside is I can't really offer much savings for getting a 'minimalist' case -- it won't actually be half the cost unless we have twenty or more orders; but I should (probably) be able to offer a 15% discount for a minimalist or extended-minimalist case.

 To be safe I'll add a 10% 'fee' for adding the spacers -- $3 for an aluminum full-kit, $4.50 for SS. "Inconsequential" doesn't actually mean 'free upgrade' -- but the guy at the shop didn't sound worried about it either. E.G. Shipped, $42.50 for the 1st aluminum case, or $45.25 with matching standoffs) assuming we hit 15 or so orders total. A second case shouldn't bump the shipping too much, so $82, I think, for two extended minimalist cases in 6061 with matching spacers for both, shipped CONUS (add roughly $15 for international, as near as I can tell)


I'm going to PM folks on the waiting list, but if you haven't voted yet, go ahead and do so soon!

[slickmamba]

Awesome, just put in an order for the minimalist case.  I think I did it right.

[agodinhost]

Waterjet? As said before (I think) they can't offer the tolerances -- They officially guarantee 0.015" precision but tell me that "most of the time" they can get "pretty close" to half that; seven or eight thousandths of an inch. I have prices from them.
Full kit, ten layers: $32/ea alum, $45/ea stainless -- ASSUMING ten copies ordered. I'm unclear at this moment if a general $350-MOQ amongst the various variations desired is close enough, or if the overhead is specific to each 'kit' -- I'll get clarification. But that would mean, assuming we met that expectation -- $50+shipping for the full-hand stainless steel, 1.5mm slices. Remember these are heavy, so it could conceivably exceed the 4lbs limit imposed on cheap international shipping. Probably $15 CONUS because my own boxes end up being much cheaper than the "any weight flat rate" boxes.

EA? Sorry, don't know this currency (and yes, I googled it)
How much the stainless steel would be in USD?

[AKmalamute]

EA? Sorry, don't know this currency (and yes, I googled it)
How much the stainless steel would be in USD?

Sorry for any confusion I've incurred. All my abbreviations refer to something that isn't currency ... minimum order quantity, continental united states, price-per-the-each (/ea)

oh! now I see. '/ea' confused you. The shop quoted $320 for ten, so that's thirty two each, or $32/ea. Grocery story abbreviation if nowhere else.

[yuiop]

I'm about to submit my order.   Just a few questions for you sir.
If I get a non-minimalist full kit, it comes with 10 common layers + JD's spacers?  Also how many layers of spacer?
Do we have the matching spacers for full hand case as well?

Ideally I'd like to order one classic alu and one full-hand SS.

[AKmalamute]

I'm about to submit my order.   Just a few questions for you sir.
If I get a non-minimalist full kit, it comes with 10 common layers + JD's spacers?  Also how many layers of spacer?
Do we have the matching spacers for full hand case as well?

Ideally I'd like to order one classic alu and one full-hand SS.

10 layers, and if you want the spacers there'll be a small fee. That's seven layers of spacer, and I've got a note somewhere of where they're expected (right below the PCB you'd need two, and maybe above the upper spacer too, I think)

No, there is not a full hand spacer. You should by all rights be able to use the classic spaces and then bolster the wrist rest with a block of wood, or foam, or scrap metal of a known thickness -- but you'd need to bolster it with something, and I don't have a lead on the something.

ALSO I have not updated the order form's prices. Sorry.

So here's the waterjet prices as I understand them (and yes this has always proven to be a bit of an adventure but it should be right)

$450/10, or $45/ea for 304 SS + 10% for spacer kit + sales tax + shipping + PP fee.
Sales tax is 8.7%, PP I'm assuming is around 3.5%. Shipping on a full hand should be $15, thus
 $71.25 for the first full hand order. A second case doesn't seem to drive shipping up too much so same math but $320/10, or $32/ea + 10% + sales tax + ~2.5 or so + PP fee.

Right now I'm coming up with $113.50 for the combination (spacers for both) you've suggested assuming you're in the states. If I can fit it smoothly into a 'flat rate' box that will provide the upper limit to shipping but except for stainless steel it's proven cheaper to mail in my own boxes.

[yuiop]

Order submitted.  and yes, I'd like JD spacers for both kits I ordered.  I have an idea of what to use underneath the wrist rest.
Many thanks for doing round 2 for us even though you already got your case.  I really appreciate it and I'm sure many others feel the same way as well.

[agodinhost]

Many thanks for doing round 2 for us even though you already got your case.  I really appreciate it and I'm sure many others feel the same way as well.

True!
TY AKmalamute

So:

304 SS Ergodox Standard Case Pairs (The one without the wristrest)
$45 + $4.5 spacers + 8.7% tax + 3.5% PP
so so $60 per set without the shipping.
Is that right?
$180 per 3 - I want!!!

And the Alu case AKmalamute?
Assuming it is lower (or closer) to this price you already noted I would want 3 too!

I want 3 sets, 3 in 304 SS and 3 in Alu (whatever alu you get  )
is it possible?

[lkong]

Submitted my order.
Looking forward to it.

[AKmalamute]

Stainless steel is popular! Of the outstanding orders, many of which are from March (sorry again, guys), SS outnumbers aluminum 2:1

I'm waiting to hear back on some finessing of a quote based on a particular PM, but today I'm out of town on vacation. Sometime Sunday or Monday I'll start sending out invoices and hopefully by June we'll have accumulated enough orders to make ordering from the waterjet shop worthwhile.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into everyone's consideration, but the quote is for a no-switchplate double-thickness case...Since waterjet time is the big money consumer in this order, and if you don't need/want the 1.5mm-as-Cherry-Decreed plate, there's no reason not to consider 1/8th" metal. I'll find out soon (hopefully) but I can't really imagine it would be "double the cost" like buying two cases, and would have less need for the spacers (a couple would end up being needed).

More when I get back, and if your name is on my form since way back when but you haven't piped up since the waterjet idea was brought up, feel free to offer your stance on getting your case via waterjet (since, the more the merrier).

[slickmamba]

Let me know what I need to order.  I just need a plate and bottom for my dox =/.  On that note, does anyone have an extra pair of ergodox pcb for sale?

[eviltobz]

 i'm in for an alu case (ss sounds nice, but with international shipping it ain't nice enough), but:
 

Not to throw a monkey wrench into everyone's consideration, but the quote is for a no-switchplate double-thickness case...

hmmm, no plate at all? i was under the impression that it'd be a plate that just wouldn't let you dismantle the switches without unsoldering them first. i'm not sure i like the idea of not having any sort of plate to support my dodgy soldering.

[tbc]

um....I want to place an order, but the constant changes are confusing.

and I don't know how to order fullhand.

[Latin00032]

um....I want to place an order, but the constant changes are confusing.

and I don't know how to order fullhand.

I have to admit. I'm confused, too.

I got a pm before. I didn't know what to vote for.

I think I put an order in before. I just don't know what I requested.

What's the difference between "full" and "minimalistic"? Is one 5 layers and one is 6 layers?

[yuiop]

minimalist kit = bottom layer (layer 5) + plate layer (layer 3)
full kit = 5 common layers

As far as waterjet pricing goes, you only get 15% discount with minimalist kit.  I'd say just get the full kit.
You can also get 7 spacer layers (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55651.msg1262206#msg1262206) for 10% extra cost ($3 for alu, $4.50 for SS).

Prices are the same for full hand and classic.

[Latin00032]

minimalist kit = bottom layer (layer 5) + plate layer (layer 3)
full kit = 5 common layers

As far as waterjet pricing goes, you only get 15% discount with minimalist kit.  I'd say just get the full kit.
You can also get 7 spacer layers (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55651.msg1262206#msg1262206) for 10% extra cost ($3 for alu, $4.50 for SS).

Prices are the same for full hand and classic.

Noob question: Why would I need a spacer layer if I already have all five layers?

[agodinhost]

um....I want to place an order, but the constant changes are confusing.

and I don't know how to order fullhand.

different vendors with different prices - just that.
The first vendor, the one close to AKmalamute, is kinda slow and his laser cut broken, etc, etc ...

AKmalamute found other vendors for us.
 

[yuiop]

minimalist kit = bottom layer (layer 5) + plate layer (layer 3)
full kit = 5 common layers

As far as waterjet pricing goes, you only get 15% discount with minimalist kit.  I'd say just get the full kit.
You can also get 7 spacer layers (http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=55651.msg1262206#msg1262206) for 10% extra cost ($3 for alu, $4.50 for SS).

Prices are the same for full hand and classic.

Noob question: Why would I need a spacer layer if I already have all five layers?

Each layer is only about ~1.5mm thick.  You won't be able to build a complete case without some sort of standoffs - spacer layers, m3 nuts, silicone gaskets etc.  With all things considered you'd probably need at least 7~8mm space between the plate and the bottom layer.

[AKmalamute]

I have to admit. I'm confused, too.

I got a pm before. I didn't know what to vote for.

I think I put an order in before. I just don't know what I requested.

I show one full kit, classic, in stainless steel. As has been pointed out yes the current quote is for a different vendor who has a different pricing tier so I wanted folks who had ordered under the lasercut prices to re-look at the waterjet possibility.

 Main question to you now, is do you want spacers with your case (an extra $4.50 as said elsewhere) -- also, you can choose full-hand if you'd like for nothing extra. Or, wait for the laser shop to fix their giant paperweight / catch up with their smaller customers and use the old tier system which would allow for switchtop removal.

 As to my quote request it turns out I confuzzled the vendor partly because I was bleary eyed when I typed it, and I've just gotten back from hundreds of miles of driving and am bleary eyed again; also, three-day weekend. So I can't ascertain more until on that particular front, until Tuesday. Sorry Loligagger.

Nevertheless, I'm going to (once I get back from work Saturday) begin the task of assembling the orders I definitely have, create invoices, and hopefully by next week I'll have enough to make this a proper money-and-time-saving group buy!

 And thanks to adoginhost and YUIOP for answering questions in my absence. Good night and sleep well everybody.

[zflamewing]

Just throwing out a random idea....What about cutting a number of just bottom plates from the 1/8" and mating those with the thinner steal switch plate layer when the laser comes back on line.  I think it would make a fairly solid minimal case as the thicker steel bottom would add weight.  I just was thinking of what would be interesting.  I wouldn't know how much of a logistical nightmare that might be though.

[tp4tissue]

hi dudez... what is this spacer issue.. are the plates not the whole thickness of the case?  so you need spacers between every single plate?

[zflamewing]

hi dudez... what is this spacer issue.. are the plates not the whole thickness of the case?  so you need spacers between every single plate?

That's the gist of it.  The acrylic is thicker than the steel/aluminum plates being used so for it all to fit right spacers or a small standoff becomes necessary.  Another option is go with standoffs that fit around the bolts and do a more minimal build using only 2-3 layers which a lot of us are interested in.

[tp4tissue]

hi dudez... what is this spacer issue.. are the plates not the whole thickness of the case?  so you need spacers between every single plate?

That's the gist of it.  The acrylic is thicker than the steel/aluminum plates being used so for it all to fit right spacers or a small standoff becomes necessary.  Another option is go with standoffs that fit around the bolts and do a more minimal build using only 2-3 layers which a lot of us are interested in.

Hmmm... I think leaving out the spacers would be kinda cool like an old school 3d graphics render which just had a bunch of parallel planes.

[AKmalamute]

Quick update; I know I said I'd be producing invoices tonight but there's been a few cancellations, and I need to talk to the shop about what that will do to the bottom line. It has to do with their pricing scheme, and since they quoted producing ten of a particular metal, and we're now below ten stainless steel cases (nine, if there are no more cancellations) I need to find out if the overall price holds good when the SS gets added to the aluminum, of which I think we have between four and six, depending on how many of the older sign-ups want to continue with the current waterjet option.

Also there's that one quote for the plateless case. But if you guys are still ready with your PP account I'll pursue providing a place to send your money.

Hopefully, more tomorrow by mid-day (late evening here, now.)

[agodinhost]

ty man!
 

[AKmalamute]

So, after some clarifying questions, I feel pretty sure waterjet (at least this shop) is not where we want to go.

See, I was totally misreading their first quote. I was asking for a quote for a case but said there'd be some volume to the order ... the quote was for a case but focusing on the fact there was some volume to the quote.

The $320, that I thought was for ten copies of the classic case in 6061 aluminum. The quote was for one case which, by the way, has ten pieces.

A full factor of ten more expensive than I was understanding them to be.

back to poking the laser company's project manager, I guess.
We had one successful round maybe we can still get a second one going.

I feel confused, frustrated and a little bit angry. But unless I strongly hear otherwise, round two is on hiatus again. (at these prices each individual case is well above MOQ so feel free to order one for yourself if you'd like)

[yuiop]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

In the back of my mind I had the feeling that waterjet price was too good to be true. 
I really hope your laser shop can get their act together and start making some cases for us....

Thanks AKmalamute.

[geniekid]

Sorry to hear about that AKmalamute.  At least things got cleared up before invoicing!!

[tbc]

man....machine shops are a pain lol.

[agodinhost]

Ahhh men, don't get sad - the world is beautiful!
 

**** happens.
Although I do have hope - and we are not in a hurry ...
We will be still here.

[AKmalamute]

There's always the big-city laser shop. Their prices weren't phenomenal but it was only half-again the local shop's prices. Extended minimalist (no spacers) for $60 each but that dropped to $45.50 if twenty sets were bought -- because it was one full sheet of metal.

A high MOQ for this crowd but if it's the "whole sheet" aspect that's allowing that last bit of savings I've no doubt we could fill out at least a sheet of SS -- possibly a sheet of aluminum (currently 5 'cases' on my order sheet and it would take 20 x 6 layers to fill one sheet).

[zflamewing]

60% for stainless minimal isn't terrible.

[agodinhost]

Oh man, that would be awesome still!

Extended minimalist for 45 bucks without spacers, how many layers is this one?
The extended is that case version with those wrist rests is it right?

And how much for the "classic" in Stainless Steel? (without wrist rest)

[AKmalamute]

The extended is that case version with those wrist rests is it right?

No, sorry extended vertically from bare minimalist. 'mini' case was just the base, and switchplate. Several people wanted the top cover too. That, six layers with top cover (using the 'classic' .dxf files) was the extended minimalst.

I have the quote in front of me now. Full case classic was (cost to me not counting driving to the next city to get them) $83.50 in 6061, or $96.50 in 304 SS. Full hand, $86/$98.50.

I bet with some math I can figure the proportions out, if folks want to pursue this route.