Aluminum case to bring out bassier qualities?

[directheatedtriode]

I'm looking to do my first build with MX style switches (I'm usually an Alps, Topre user), any suggestions for what style of aluminum case I should be looking at to bring out more bassier qualities of a switch? For instance case mount, PCB mount, plate mount, etc?

Will cases that have more mass with weights affect this?

Thanks.

[swedishpiehole]

This is the million dollar question! I'm not an expert but my favorite sounding non-Topre board is my YD68 with aluminum plate and KBDfans Tofu aluminum case. I have done sound comparisons with the exact same components in another hi profile aluminum case that is enameled (Revo One) and the sound is not nearly as nice. The only difference between the setups besides the case was the fact that the switches on my YD68 are soldered and the ones in the other case were in Kailh hot swap sockets. I'm unsure as to whether the switches being soldered has an effect on the sound.

So basically, there are a lot of factors affecting the sound, not just the case. You can also play around with padding the inside of the case with foam, which can help deepen the sound. I look forward to what other will say about this and what cases they recommend.

[phinix]

This is the million dollar question! I'm not an expert but my favorite sounding non-Topre board is my YD68 with aluminum plate and KBDfans Tofu aluminum case. I have done sound comparisons with the exact same components in another hi profile aluminum case that is enameled (Revo One) and the sound is not nearly as nice. The only difference between the setups besides the case was the fact that the switches on my YD68 are soldered and the ones in the other case were in Kailh hot swap sockets. I'm unsure as to whether the switches being soldered has an effect on the sound.

So basically, there are a lot of factors affecting the sound, not just the case. You can also play around with padding the inside of the case with foam, which can help deepen the sound. I look forward to what other will say about this and what cases they recommend.

what material would you recommend to put inside the case?
If foam, what foam?

[nevin]

Yes. A case can alter the sound depending on how roomy it is and the material it's made out of. But the things that effect sound the most is switches & caps.

- what sound are you going for? clicky? pingy? deep thock? etc....
- what switches do you think you will use? (linear, tactile, clicky, brand?)
- lubed or not? (lubed how? with what?)
- plate mounted?
- what's the plate material?
- how's the plate mounted? (screws straight to metal, gasket/pressure mount?)
- what caps are you planning to use?

for some great examples of boards & sounds check out these users on youtube
Taeha Types - typically high end MX, you won't believe how some of these sound.
And our lovely Chyrosran22 - covers a huge array of new & old boards as well as reviews & sounds of more switches than any other user i've seen.

[Leslieann]

Why is sound dictating switch selection?

How a keyboard feels is typically the more important consideration and things build from there.

[BedsideTiger]

Interesting note here is the physics of vibration travel through material is not what you think. "The denser a keyboard part is, the higher the pitch produced because sound waves travel faster in denser mediums and higher speeds produce higher frequency sounds." - Brian Lee from his great article Keyboard Construction Explained.

https://brianlee.blog/2018/11/23/guide-keyboard-construction-explained/

So oddly enough a some type of plastic or poly carbonate case or even just the plate will help you get that bassier sound you are looking for

[nevin]

Thanks. Great article.

Here's another great article for those interested.... (TX84 - POM half-plate alps, yes alps, with an ingenious way to align switches)

- Recently made some ergo clears, started out with gateron brown (clear top), swapped in cherry clear stem & ended up using cherry black top housing because the gateron clear top housings were a good bit higher pitched then the cherry black top housing. I realized this when i was playing with options of stems, springs, housing part combinations. I'm sure just a matter of difference in material used for the top housing
- Lube switches/springs, don't go crazy but even a little bit helps
- Obviously thin ABS caps will be higher pitched than something thicker or a different material.
- Plate mounting - there are some cases that use gasket mounting. The plate is just sandwiched between the two halfs of the case with rubber/silicone. There is no metal to metal contact between the plate & the case
- Go plateless - just switches on the PCB, make sure you get PCB mount switches & stabs

@directheatedtriode - What form factor are you looking to build? The case options are really endless until you narrow down what size/layout you want.

[directheatedtriode]

Yes. A case can alter the sound depending on how roomy it is and the material it's made out of. But the things that effect sound the most is switches & caps.

- what sound are you going for? clicky? pingy? deep thock? etc....
- what switches do you think you will use? (linear, tactile, clicky, brand?)
- lubed or not? (lubed how? with what?)
- plate mounted?
- what's the plate material?
- how's the plate mounted? (screws straight to metal, gasket/pressure mount?)
- what caps are you planning to use?

for some great examples of boards & sounds check out these users on youtube
Taeha Types - typically high end MX, you won't believe how some of these sound.
And our lovely Chyrosran22 - covers a huge array of new & old boards as well as reviews & sounds of more switches than any other user i've seen.

I really like the the thicker/deeper sound of the HHKB2 and all my SKCM blue keyboards. I have already decided on Zilent V2. Keycaps probably something PBT. I subscribe to both of them, but aside from watching hours of Taeha's build videos I can't seem to find much info on what to do build wise that can bring out the deeper quality of these switches.

Form factor is more than likely HHKB, so like Tokyo60 but I am fine with TKL/80 as well.

The most recent post on plastic is interesting.

Why is sound dictating switch selection?

How a keyboard feels is typically the more important consideration and things build from there.

Sound was not dictating switch selection, I already know what switch I'm using, switch feel was most definitely heavily factored into this decision above all else. Now that I know what switch I am using sound is a big consideration.

[directheatedtriode]

I know SA should give a deeper sound, the reason I am chosing PBT is I just strongly prefer the feel of keycaps that do not develop any shine. I just really don't like that ultra smooth "slimy" feeling when they wear down.

[phinix]

I know SA should give a deeper sound, the reason I am chosing PBT is I just strongly prefer the feel of keycaps that do not develop any shine. I just really don't like that ultra smooth "slimy" feeling when they wear down.

Wash your hands then

[directheatedtriode]

I know SA should give a deeper sound, the reason I am chosing PBT is I just strongly prefer the feel of keycaps that do not develop any shine. I just really don't like that ultra smooth "slimy" feeling when they wear down.

Wash your hands then

I do, alcohol hand gel very frequently as well. I'm an MD, most of us keep our hands pretty clean to avoid nosocomial spread

[tp4tissue]

You'd need Larger cavities for something resembling bass... Aluminum is more rigid than plastic, and is more rigid than wood, there won't be much reverb going on in a thick aluminum case.

[typo]

My custom TI case and GMK key caps made my Topre RGB sound better than all my 104UB's IMO. A lot depends on the case and keycaps. Might try to go for TI though. If it is available or have it custom fabbed like I did. That is going to probably cost you a fortune as it did I however. TI seems to have a more resonant lower octave frequency. No wonder as it is more dense and brittle than Aluminum. OH, btw I love the shine on GMK feels so yummy.

[nevin]

Going with Zilent's, there won't be a whole lot of sound compared to undampened switches.

- Some other things that should help is some thick PBT (as you mentioned) I really like the cherry profile NPKC PBT set i got years ago. I also got a OEM profile YMTK PBT set off aliexpress which are ok but not as good quality as the NPKC set. I definitely like the NPKC set better and prefer cherry profile over OEM profile. (both sets are blanks)

- If you're going with 60% there are a ton of options case wise. Just look for something heavy & thick. I have a Vortex/KBTalking Pure that has a heavy cast aluminum? case. This should be the same case.  This is the one i bought back in 2012. I still have it, though now it has a GH60 pcb, the NPKC blank caps mentioned above, Cherry MX browns & QMK silencing clips (1st gen pcb mount, black rubber), No plate - just pcb. Here's a little sound clip of what a dampened combination like this sounds like . This is nothing fancy, i didn't lube the switches or anything either.
 REC001-raw very quiet.mp3 (785.53 kB - downloaded 85 times.)
 REC001-amplified louder.mp3 (813.38 kB - downloaded 71 times.)

Also, one of my favorite sounding STOCK boards (apple m0110 m0110/a)

[phinix]

I know SA should give a deeper sound, the reason I am chosing PBT is I just strongly prefer the feel of keycaps that do not develop any shine. I just really don't like that ultra smooth "slimy" feeling when they wear down.

Wash your hands then

I do, alcohol hand gel very frequently as well. I'm an MD, most of us keep our hands pretty clean to avoid nosocomial spread

Maybe you are in the same position as me - I for some reason need to wash my hands pretty often, do not like a feel of grease or cream on them.
However, I love the shiny look of my ABS OG Cherry caps. Shiny caps can be nice and fun, but you need to keep your hands clean all the time, these are very "sensitive" on greasy hands.
Same for example my SA caps.
rough surface of PBT is the thing that keeps my off them, do not like those...

[directheatedtriode]

I know SA should give a deeper sound, the reason I am chosing PBT is I just strongly prefer the feel of keycaps that do not develop any shine. I just really don't like that ultra smooth "slimy" feeling when they wear down.

Wash your hands then

I do, alcohol hand gel very frequently as well. I'm an MD, most of us keep our hands pretty clean to avoid nosocomial spread

Maybe you are in the same position as me - I for some reason need to wash my hands pretty often, do not like a feel of grease or cream on them.
However, I love the shiny look of my ABS OG Cherry caps. Shiny caps can be nice and fun, but you need to keep your hands clean all the time, these are very "sensitive" on greasy hands.
Same for example my SA caps.
rough surface of PBT is the thing that keeps my off them, do not like those...

My hands are completely dry (to the point where I occasionally see cracking from dryness), the only places I use moisturizer are on the dorsum of my hands and I use the same back of my hand to rub it so it doesn't touch the palmar surface.

Textured PBT are my absolute favorite for feel, I just don't like that smooth feeling of ABS, though I do put up with it since many of my SKCM boards have it and some of them are non-standard layout. I don't think I am the only one that is not a fan, I often see people mention the shine on SA sets when being sold on /r/mm unless people are just collecting them boxed/unused. IMHO these sets are just way too expensive for the shine they will eventually develop if they are actually used. $200 for a set of keycaps that will develop shine when I've paid that for clean condition SKCM blue keyboards is just silly (all IMHO). I will not deny that they sound very nice

[directheatedtriode]

Going with Zilent's, there won't be a whole lot of sound compared to undampened switches.

- Some other things that should help is some thick PBT (as you mentioned) I really like the cherry profile NPKC PBT set i got years ago. I also got a OEM profile YMTK PBT set off aliexpress which are ok but not as good quality as the NPKC set. I definitely like the NPKC set better and prefer cherry profile over OEM profile. (both sets are blanks)

- If you're going with 60% there are a ton of options case wise. Just look for something heavy & thick. I have a Vortex/KBTalking Pure that has a heavy cast aluminum? case. This should be the same case.  This is the one i bought back in 2012. I still have it, though now it has a GH60 pcb, the NPKC blank caps mentioned above, Cherry MX browns & QMK silencing clips (1st gen pcb mount, black rubber), No plate - just pcb. Here's a little sound clip of what a dampened combination like this sounds like . This is nothing fancy, i didn't lube the switches or anything either.
(Attachment Link)
(Attachment Link)

Also, one of my favorite sounding STOCK boards (apple m0110 m0110/a)

Thank you nevin, tremendously helpful advice all through this thread. I did some more reading last night and I am now leaning towards a plastic case, I see there are quite a few for 60/65% are there any for TKL?

I realize the Zilents will be pretty quiet, from what I have heard from videos I should prefer the sound of them to the high pitched Zealios.

Edit: since it's not explicitly mentioned in the first post, my favorite switches for feel and sound are Topre, SKCM Blue and SKCM Orange.

[nevin]

Plastic TKL... first thing that comes to mind... filco?
or you could go skeleton/spaced or layered acrylic or other material (bunch of layers make up the case) "sandwiched" together.
https://www.1upkeyboards.com/shop/keyboard-kits/diy-87up-keyboard-kits/diy-tkl-skeleton-kit-cf-mblack/
http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/housings-and-related-parts/82-acrylic-housing-for-nerd-tkl.html
http://www.gonskeyboardworks.com/housings-and-related-parts/80-gon-ns-nerd-tkl-housing-only.html
or you could do your own custom one with keyboard layout editor, swill plate builder & get everything cut at ponoko or similar

[tex_live_utility]

Switches lubed with GPL 105 or 205 grade 0 often take on a much bassier tone.

Plastic cases can actually sound quite deep and satisfying if you have lubed switches. Look at the G80 cases, for instance.

For plate materials, avoid carbon fiber and FR4. They tend to sound "clacky". Aluminum is very "neutral" and will tend to take on the sound of whatever case you put it in. Brass sometimes sounds nice and deep, but other times can take on metallic overtones. Steel tends to sound very metallic. POM I'm told is a bit deeper sounding than polycarbonate, but both should be good options as well depending on the board. And plateless or half-plate is usually a great option.

But the board will affect sound quite a lot too, so it's hard to just talk about the plate in isolation. If anything, the board "decides" the sound signature, and the "colors" it one way or another.

What's "good" really depends on your budget and the form factor you want. As a rule of thumb, bigger/heavier keyboards sound deeper, and more open space inside will be louder.

But I still maintain that lubing your switches (and avoiding tray mount) are the two best options for a nice deep sound.

[HungerMechanic]

If you do go with polycarb plate, let us know how it sound and feels.

I have to choose between polycarb and brass plate for Zilents on the KBD8x mkii. Also between half and full-plate.

[swedishpiehole]

This is the million dollar question! I'm not an expert but my favorite sounding non-Topre board is my YD68 with aluminum plate and KBDfans Tofu aluminum case. I have done sound comparisons with the exact same components in another hi profile aluminum case that is enameled (Revo One) and the sound is not nearly as nice. The only difference between the setups besides the case was the fact that the switches on my YD68 are soldered and the ones in the other case were in Kailh hot swap sockets. I'm unsure as to whether the switches being soldered has an effect on the sound.

So basically, there are a lot of factors affecting the sound, not just the case. You can also play around with padding the inside of the case with foam, which can help deepen the sound. I look forward to what other will say about this and what cases they recommend.

what material would you recommend to put inside the case?
If foam, what foam?

Oops, just saw this. Craft foam is pretty decent, but if you want major vibration absorption and are willing to part with $25 or so, get yourself a sheet of Sorbothane. It's heavy and sticky but it dampens sound like nobody's business. Pay attention to thickness, as it comes in different thicknesses as well as dimensions. I used 0.125 in my HHKB and it was a little too thick to fit in some of the areas between the PCB and the case.

[phinix]

This is the million dollar question! I'm not an expert but my favorite sounding non-Topre board is my YD68 with aluminum plate and KBDfans Tofu aluminum case. I have done sound comparisons with the exact same components in another hi profile aluminum case that is enameled (Revo One) and the sound is not nearly as nice. The only difference between the setups besides the case was the fact that the switches on my YD68 are soldered and the ones in the other case were in Kailh hot swap sockets. I'm unsure as to whether the switches being soldered has an effect on the sound.

So basically, there are a lot of factors affecting the sound, not just the case. You can also play around with padding the inside of the case with foam, which can help deepen the sound. I look forward to what other will say about this and what cases they recommend.

what material would you recommend to put inside the case?
If foam, what foam?

Oops, just saw this. Craft foam is pretty decent, but if you want major vibration absorption and are willing to part with $25 or so, get yourself a sheet of Sorbothane. It's heavy and sticky but it dampens sound like nobody's business. Pay attention to thickness, as it comes in different thicknesses as well as dimensions. I used 0.125 in my HHKB and it was a little too thick to fit in some of the areas between the PCB and the case.

Sorbothane - will look at it, thanks for confirming.