how you handle less than TKL ?

[mapple]

hey guys as in topic........

I did bought matias tactile pro - even though I'm windows user -> just for sound....... nevertheless constantly hitting fn + ins/del for pg up/down is driving me crazy. Now I've been struggling with idea how you guys are working anything less than this ?? seriously no arrow keys f1/12..... what you do for living ? Even if you doing dev jobs -> vi can't be everything.... right ?? hhkb/pok3r/anne and so many others........
Not programmer myself but doing a lot of OS scripting and really struggle to understand - can you please enlighten me a bit to remove that itchy thing from my head please ?

[Tactile]

This comes up all the time and it's not worth covering again. Some people don't like 60% boards and some do. Really no surprise there. Here's Bjarne Stroustrup, the guy who invented C++ - check out those two (!) HHKB he's sitting in front of.

[mapple]

This comes up all the time and it's not worth covering again. Some people don't like 60% boards and some do. Really no surprise there. Here's Bjarne Stroustrup, the guy who invented C++ - check out those two (!) HHKB he's sitting in front of.
(Attachment Link)

yah got that - but this is literally question about how you manage life without all those missing keys ? (*not if you are pro/against such a layout) my opinion doesn't matter in this case

[Sup]

This comes up all the time and it's not worth covering again. Some people don't like 60% boards and some do. Really no surprise there. Here's Bjarne Stroustrup, the guy who invented C++ - check out those two (!) HHKB he's sitting in front of.
(Attachment Link)

yah got that - but this is literally question about how you manage life without all those missing keys ? (*not if you are pro/against such a layout) my opinion doesn't matter in this case

The thing is we dont miss the keys. We got Them on a second layer. It's better less arm movements.

[Leslieann]

can you please enlighten me a bit to remove that itchy thing from my head please ?

How I handle it is I put my GH60 in a box back in a deep dark corner of the basement and pull out a TKL.

The thing is we dont miss the keys. We got Them on a second layer. It's better less arm movements.

It may be less arm movement but it may not be as fast or efficient depending on how many keys/layers you need. With enough time, sure, I can see it being faster, but to what degree and how much time and brain power I'd need to get there isn't worth it for most people. I want to get on a compter and do what i want, not memorize what key and layer I hid the tilde key or print screen.

[Hypersphere]

@mapple: Anything more than 60% is a waste of space!

Seriously, though, I resisted going 60% for a long time, depite many recommendations for the HHKB. I finally took the plunge, and after a surprisingly short time, I adapted to the 60% form factor and the layout.

BTW, I do a great deal of writing and some coding in my work, which also involves molecular modeling.

Most of the time, I use an HHKB, but I like variety and vintage boards, so I use some TKLs and some full-size keyboards. However, I remap all of them to something as close as I can get to the HHKB layout.

It's all about what you value and getting accustomed to new things. I especially like the symmetry of a 60% board, enabling it to be centered under my computer monitor and not having to reach as far for the mouse.

[HPE1000]

The 60% layout is perfectly fine as far as I am concerned. Anything less is when you actually start running into problems with usability imo.

[mkkeyboardvigilante]

HHKB took me a bit to get used to, but now I'm able to seamlessly go from that board to my other ones whenever I want. It's one I like to switch back to every so often, and one where once I replace those black keycaps, I'll be using a whole lot more too. I even got used to accessing the arrow keys with FN on there too, so I don't think I was missing out on too much. I already used Karabiner Elements to program some other stuff onto all my boards, so I'm covered there.

[Lanrefni]

I don't handle it,that's why I have a BFO-9000,104 key split ortho FTW.

[Polymer]

You just have to get used to the second layer.  Once you get used to it or figure out what works for you,  it becomes very easy to go smaller. 

If you do find a huge reliance on those other buttons, it could just be that your workflow doesn't allow you to leverage a second layer very well...

I do think though that the biggest gain in space is moving to TKL...while you gain the same amount of space it going to 60% from TKL, it is more just empty space for me...

[chyros]

I ****ing hate layer keys. I don't even like TKLs, they're too limited for me.

[Telstar]

I think nobody standardized the best layout for current PC era. A few functions are needed (F1 or F2 to enter bios, F5 to refresh), then keep arrows, printscreen, home and del and optionally some media keys. Rest is basically useless nowadays. The numpad is another matter and could well be taken separately and used during i.e. spreadsheet work.

So currently I prefer TKL and use some functions as either macros or media keys and keep ignoring half of the extra keys up right.

[mapple]

thank you guys for all the input ! still admire the ones able to work like that. Love the community here !

[F0xdude]

Like many others have said, using layers is key. Specifically, I like to use tap functions so that I can have layers anywhere that I want. My favourite usage of this is making the colon key a layer when held, and then assigning arrow functions to ijkl. It's really nice, and makes correcting typing mistakes very fast!

hope this helps

[tp4tissue]

It entirely depends on how often you use those missing keys..

For example, you don't see pr0 starcraft peeps playing on HHKB..


Coding is not a keyboard intensive task.  You spend the majority of time thinking.

Chatting with your friends has higher keyboard utility rate than coding.

C++ inventor using HHKB is demonstrative of that very fact.

[thearctican]

I ****ing hate layer keys. I don't even like TKLs, they're too limited for me.

If I did more numerical data entry I'd probably be in the same camp.

[no, the other guy]

I usually just buy a large container, take the less than TKL, gently put it inside and slowly walk away from the scene.

[chyros]

I ****ing hate layer keys. I don't even like TKLs, they're too limited for me.

If I did more numerical data entry I'd probably be in the same camp.

Tbh even at home I prefer a fullsize, even though I do nothing work-related there.

Jesus, it's worth having the numpad JUST for the Enter key IMO!

[appaboy]

I ****ing hate layer keys. I don't even like TKLs, they're too limited for me.

If I did more numerical data entry I'd probably be in the same camp.

Tbh even at home I prefer a fullsize, even though I do nothing work-related there.

Jesus, it's worth having the numpad JUST for the Enter key IMO!

Yeah that key is so comfortable but I myself use tkl with left side numpad and I mapped a button on my mouse to enter key but it's less satisfying as smacking that numpad enter

[Leslieann]

Jesus, it's worth having the numpad JUST for the Enter key IMO!

Yeah that key is so comfortable but I myself use tkl with left side numpad and I mapped a button on my mouse to enter key but it's less satisfying as smacking that numpad enter

I admit, I miss this.
Soooo satisfying.

[phinix]

I also have problems using less than TKL boards. I so much want to like them, like for example I just got Varmilo 69keys version, but I keep hitting wrong keys just because arrows cluster is moved to the left just a bit, then it totally breaks my brain, when trying to use End key, which is missing on that board. I cannot use keyboard without End key apparently! I need it to fix mistakes in lines I write, jump back to words in a sentence, then jump back to end of line. I noticed I've been doing it for ever, then now, when using 65% board, I hate using second layer...

For me, perfect solution would be "Function row-less" keyboard - Simply TKL with cut off F row.

[Telstar]

For me, perfect solution would be "Function row-less" keyboard - Simply TKL with cut off F row.

Half the function keys are very important, i use a lot F2 (to edit a filename and to enter bios), F5 (browser refresh, less now that i bound that to center mouse button too) and F11 (browser fullscreen). So are half of the other extra keys on a TKL (begin, end, and prtscr).
I have started to make my custom layout for these reasons.

[phinix]

For me, perfect solution would be "Function row-less" keyboard - Simply TKL with cut off F row.

Half the function keys are very important, i use a lot F2 (to edit a filename and to enter bios), F5 (browser refresh, less now that i bound that to center mouse button too) and F11 (browser fullscreen). So are half of the other extra keys on a TKL (begin, end, and prtscr).
I have started to make my custom layout for these reasons.

Custom layout, interesting. Can you your ideas?

[Telstar]

Custom layout, interesting. Can you your ideas?

Yup. I was planning to do a dedicated thread, but u can see it here:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMmg4Hd6/t1.jpg

[phinix]

Custom layout, interesting. Can you your ideas?

Yup. I was planning to do a dedicated thread, but u can see it here:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMmg4Hd6/t1.jpg

Damn, this is too messed up for me:)

[thearctican]

Custom layout, interesting. Can you your ideas?

Yup. I was planning to do a dedicated thread, but u can see it here:
https://i.postimg.cc/qMmg4Hd6/t1.jpg

Damn, this is too messed up for me:)

Ah it's not that bad. But I don't see how that's different functionality wise from something like a 96key or Scarlet Bandana, S65+, or JER Mini. The last 3 just put their macros to the left.

[Sintpinty]

I use a 60% slim folio membrane keyboard. I can handle anything except 30% because it doesn't have the things that i need.

[Telstar]

Ah it's not that bad. But I don't see how that's different functionality wise from something like a 96key or Scarlet Bandana, S65+, or JER Mini. The last 3 just put their macros to the left.

Scarlet Bandana and Jer mini - have no numpad nor the 6 functions I need (but macros can be remapped). They are not similar at all.
I'd rather have more keys than less.

96-kees gets close. The main difference is in the spacing, the placement of DEL and a few more nuances. I consider my layout an improvement of that with better spacing and some more useless keys removed, like the numpad always active. I could probably adapt one of those PCBs, though.

Edit: googling 96 keys i found the Leopold FC980M which has proper spacing of the arrow keys. So that is the closest thing to my ideal layout. I could as well get one and customize the case since I would have to resolder the switches anyway.