Poll

Which do you prefer?

Track ball
Mouse
Other
Whichever I think will work best at the time

Author Topic: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!  (Read 49728 times)

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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #50 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 02:37:10 »
I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #51 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 13:06:01 »
I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.

What does 'breaking a sweat' in this context even mean?

Offline buryberry

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #52 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 13:11:50 »
i used a wacom for awhile and it was nice. i have one with the wheel which i used for scrolling. putting down and picking up the pen was really annoying though

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #53 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 15:11:55 »
i used a wacom for awhile and it was nice. i have one with the wheel which i used for scrolling. putting down and picking up the pen was really annoying though

there are alot of alternatives now. cheaper and laminated.

Offline buryberry

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #54 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 15:46:56 »
yep i know huion is popular. apparently even their cintiq alternatives are really good now, which was not the case a couple years ago. my wacom is quite old already (intuos 4), so i hope it lasts a long time still. i still have an rs232 intuos 1 :P

Offline micmil

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #55 on: Sun, 21 February 2021, 19:36:38 »
Good luck playing games that require pixel perfect cursor precision and a lot of very fast movement on a trackball lmao. I would like to see some good input device that has the precision required, but have yet to find anything that's not a mouse (or a drawing tablet for Osu! purposes). I mostly play games that require 2D aiming, so I just play with a relatively high DPI of 2000 on 1080p.

I use a noisy gaming keyboard and mouse for gaming.

I use a quiet keyboard and trackball for work.

Right tool for the job and everything.

I think the overall concept of the trackball is inherently flawed.
Standard mice can reach DPI levels of 5k without even breaking a sweat, but if you try that on a trackball it becomes a complete mess.
There's got to be another solution. One that combines both natural 3D movement and accuracy.

Why would you want 5k dpi on a trackball? Are you going to be 720 noscoping your Excel spreadsheets or something?  :p

Offline trace.

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #56 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 10:54:45 »
Good luck playing games that require pixel perfect cursor precision and a lot of very fast movement on a trackball lmao. I would like to see some good input device that has the precision required, but have yet to find anything that's not a mouse (or a drawing tablet for Osu! purposes). I mostly play games that require 2D aiming, so I just play with a relatively high DPI of 2000 on 1080p.
I use a noisy gaming keyboard and mouse for gaming.

I use a quiet keyboard and trackball for work.

Right tool for the job and everything.
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #57 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 11:59:24 »
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.

Offline micmil

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #58 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 12:12:14 »
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.

One PC. It takes all of a minute to swap out a keyboard and I don't even have to swap to the trackball, I just power it on.

Using the appropriate tool for the job saves you more time than you spend in the changeover.

Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #59 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 12:33:08 »
Yea sure, but I don't like using different peripherals for every single thing I do, so it would be nice if there were mice that could do proper ergonomics while having high precision as well.

To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if mic had a situation where they have their personal PC for games and leisure, and a work PC for their job. Not uncommon and would basically be one set of peripherals per PC.

But not everyone has the space for multiple PCs or multiple sets of peripherals, or the money to afford it all, or even just the feeling of not wanting to have to swap the cables every time you want to move from one thing to the next if you only have that one computer. No shame in any of that.

One PC. It takes all of a minute to swap out a keyboard and I don't even have to swap to the trackball, I just power it on.

Using the appropriate tool for the job saves you more time than you spend in the changeover.

Fair enough. Honestly the reason I don't have anything like that at home is because I don't have the room for it, and would have to completely re-box my primary keyboard, then pull out the one for work, then unbox it and get it set up. Which is not the easiest task with my setup, especially since I have a fairly small desk Just better to have one set of peripherals, for me, and not bother with the 10-15 minutes it would take to change everything out every single time I need / want to change those peripherals.

Offline Coreda

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #60 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 14:52:13 »
Edit: nvm, noticed the sub-quoted post wanted to avoid graphics tablet form factor.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2021, 14:55:04 by Coreda »

Offline micmil

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #61 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 17:50:12 »
Fair enough. Honestly the reason I don't have anything like that at home is because I don't have the room for it, and would have to completely re-box my primary keyboard, then pull out the one for work, then unbox it and get it set up. Which is not the easiest task with my setup, especially since I have a fairly small desk Just better to have one set of peripherals, for me, and not bother with the 10-15 minutes it would take to change everything out every single time I need / want to change those peripherals.

Yeah, if you're precious about your gear it won't really be the best option. Nothing I have is terribly valuable and I buy it all to be used anyway. I think if I had like a $300+ Topre board or something like that I'd be way too fussy to ever use it.  :))

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #62 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 19:40:28 »
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.

Offline micmil

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #63 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 20:13:33 »
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.

You're just one huge sentient oil-covered skinflake.

Goodnight!  :thumb:

Offline csmertx

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #64 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:19:01 »
TB's sure do remind you of your hand cleanliness and general disgusting nature of the human body. If even under my currently strict cleaning and washing regimens the ball accumulates dead skin at a rate that makes me want to go full Howard Hugues. If only just my seemingly clean hand that I spend more time keeping sterile far more than that of any other area in these times of high hand alertness can produce this level of filth in such a short time, I shudder to think what the rest of this unoptimized skin pile of filth is shedding off around me, and at what gaggingly quick pace. I'm probably sitting in absolute muck of my own making right now and now even seeing it! I make me sick.

Hold on, lemme clean the crude from the sides, top, and bottom of my Steelseries Sensei 310... And now the ball and guides for my trackball.  There.  Yep, can confirm. :blank:

Offline typo

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #65 on: Sun, 04 April 2021, 19:32:12 »
Cleaning requirements of TB's is a downside for them. An alternative is the space-mouse. A lot of people would have issues with it's affordability. Outside of professional usage. I do not game whatsoever. I was always under the impression that gaming mice were simply better quality hardware. This may not be so anymore. The G502 Lightspeed May be easily bested by the MX Master 3 for coding. Just as I ultimately decided a 108 key Topre is much more suited than a fancy Korean MX. I was wondering what you folks think about the MX Master 3? For coding or office usage. Certainly not for gaming. Apparently Many coders now prefer it to the MX Ergo or anything for that matter. Pain is not an issue if the registry is manually set so that the mouse hardly moves.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #66 on: Mon, 05 April 2021, 15:42:55 »
So after using a trackball for months now I am developing a tendon issue with my thumb from clicking with it (as opposed to my pointer & middle fingers developing issues using a standard mouse)

So clearly trackballs do cause wear and tear on the body from repetitive motion, just on a different finger.

and trackballs are still frustratingly inaccurate and slow, but my quickly becrippling phalanges need the confusion of switching to keep them from being destroyed at an even more rapid pace. I just want robot fingers already, this human design is extremely flawed.
« Last Edit: Mon, 05 April 2021, 15:45:07 by noisyturtle »

Offline typo

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #67 on: Thu, 08 April 2021, 07:21:26 »
Going back to mice was worse. Trust me. You may honestly want to try only the top model Space Mouse if you got the cash to blow. I cannot vouch for it but I have heard good things from serious pro's. I mean pro's in Photo Shop ETC. The big issue I have with TB's we all agree. Cleaning and most importantly lack of accuracy. You might think accuracy only matters to gamers. Not true. It matters in a lot of apps.

Offline typo

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #68 on: Sat, 10 April 2021, 04:08:05 »
Edit: Unfortunately this did not work out nearly as well as I thought it was going to. Mice still reign supreme. Save for RSI,


I have been trying to perfect a trackball. So it causes minimal pain. Is easy to clean and requires infrequent cleaning. Most importantly I want it to be close to precise as the best gaming mice. I am very satisfied at this point.

First you are going to want to pick up an Elecom M-XPT1MRXBK Thumb operated Track Ball on Amazon. Only this one! It is less than $67 there. If you live anywhere near a large city it ships the same day free. It is much more money elsewhere. YMMV but I feel this causes the least pain. It is also very easy to clean compared to others. Plus it requires less cleaning intervals. It is filthy in here.

You will only want to use it wired. With a good cable, also off Amazon in the same order if need be. God ones are the best quality Anker or Xcentz. Either one for 6 feet is well under $10. This is not transmitting much data so really any cable that fits snugly in the socket is okay. That generally means with a metal connector. Given that, those are about the least expensive that I can vouch for.

On a 24 to 32 inch display set the DPI control 'up' button to the highest setting. In control panel 'classic' set the pointer speed to '6' which is no acceleration. which really only matters to FPS gamers but I generally prefer it. Then tick the radio button directly below labeled 'enhance pointer precision' Which adds right back acceleration anyway. I am assuming Windows 10 is being used. If MAC or Linux obviously different.

Now, in the modern 'app' style control panel I would suggest to set the mouse pointer speed to 12 as a starting point. If one requires much faster than this they will lose precision. You will also be required to make a number of registry changes if using Windows 10.

This is the final and most important step. The ball rides on 3 synthetic rubies. They are not a smooth ride at all. Even though this is arguably the best Thumb operated Track Ball. You need to get a can of 'WD-40 Specialist
Silicone Lubricant'. You may think that the PTFE is naturally going to be better suited to this task. It is not. This is a very inexpensive Silicone lube. About 1.5% Silicone. It will more than suffice here. I would suggest to try to get it at Walmart where it is the least expensive. If it wears off you have hundreds of applications. Take a Q-tip and twist the cotton at the end tight. Spray some of the Silicone lube on the Q-tip soaking it. Do this outdoors or over a sink. This permanently stains bad. Now use a flashlight inside the ball cavity with the ball removed find each of the 3 little rubies and move them around with the soaked q-tip.

Let it dry for 20 minutes with the ball out. Replace the ball. Move the ball around some for a few minutes. Continue using your computer if you wish. Later or the next day use your computer as you normally would. However, now notice that you can flick the ball hard and it will continuously spin around. Do not worry about cleaning the ball cavity when needed. It should not come off of the synthetic rubies. Only use a rag. Do not use soapy water ever. That will ruin the sensor anyway. This is what is known as a dry film lubricant. When it eventually does wear off you have hundreds of applications left.

The big deal here is that by doing this it just became just about as precise as the best gaming mice and fatigue free. I suggest it is placed atop a thin cloth Mousepad and a thin Beanbag type(such as Imak on amazon) wrist rest employed. However, do not rest your wrist on it. This is how you injure your tendons!  Rest your arm about 4 inches behind your wrist towards your body. The Imak is just about the right height. the full size one. The Alsop is either much too large or small.

The final step is to place your arm at an angle slanting towards the keyboard so your elbow points away from the keyboard. If possible, rest your able on a chairs armrest. Obviously this could not be done while standing.

That is it. I know this is lengthy but it has solved years of problems for me. I felt it was worth sharing perhaps it helps one other person.
       
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 April 2021, 17:33:16 by typo »

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #69 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 18:41:26 »
First you are going to want to pick up an Elecom M-XPT1MRXBK Thumb operated Track Ball on Amazon.
There is no one size fits all.
I actually can't use those for more than 5 minutes without problems with my thumb, too many years on bicycles putting pressure into that joint.

I also can't use Shimano thumb shifters for the same reason.
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Offline azzipa

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Re: Do you value your health or productivity more? >Track ball's Vs. Mice!
« Reply #70 on: Tue, 13 April 2021, 22:16:18 »
you need more room for a quality trackball than you do for a quality mouse, from what I've seen at least

maybe area of a mouse has a smaller footprint than a trackball? i have a hard time imagining how a trackball takes less room than a mouse. unless you simply don't move your mouse using 18000 dpi and minimal fingertip movement.