why people love soldered PCBs

[Crazy Designers]

we are making our first custom keyboard now, and we can only offer one PCB option due to our productivity.
we choose to make hot swap PCBsn with no doubt, because we think being able to change the switches is convenient, especially you want to change your switches for another typing experience.
but people suggest us to make solderable PCB anyway.what do you guys think?

our keyboard - CYBERBOARD https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=105222.0

[Leslieann]

If the pins are not lined up right it not only bends the switch pins but also puts a Lot of pressure on the pcb.
Several companies have had issues with pushing these right off the pcb, when this happens it can be quite difficult to repair, not only do you need to find a place to jump to (difficult on a board where the traces are painted over), but now you need to figure out a way to re-attach the hot swap. Also, it won't just be one ping, when this happens it can damage both sides of the hot swap. Glue tends to be the common answer, but what happens when that socket becomes loose (at the switch pins)? it's now glued to the PCB, and it will become loose since the soldered part helped pinch the connection (see Rama's guide about fixing the pinch). Then there is the question of long term reliability, there's lots of movement and vibration and the potential damage to the switch pins, which were never designed for this. If it's a plex case or plate the constant wiggle and removal and insertion also tends to wear down the plate.

Hot swap is a nice little hack to make a non-swappable part swappable, but it's still a hack and all hacks have problems. if you want to make it work right you need to change how everything associated works as well. One thing I HIGHLY recommend is if you plan to use hotswap, design your board so the trace goes around a pad, not through it, this will save the rest of the switches in the column or row to remain working, a nice touch would be a small spot nearby you could even jump to. I'd also recommend a support structure in the case to keep them from being pushed down.

All this adds time and cost, which is why while hotswap is great I refuse to buy a high end board that uses it. I expect a high end to last years and I have doubts hot swap will so I treat them as such. Until keyboard designers adjust their approach to designing them, it's a broken, short lived system.


Edit: added clarification and detail.

[nmur]

In addition to the concerns that Leslieann raises, it's true that hotswap offers more convenience, however I feel like a lot of people that are buying a high end custom kb have a pretty good idea of what switches they prefer anyway, so swapping those switches out for something else is unlikely, and they can just forgo the issues with hotswaps entirely. I'm mainly speaking about my opinion here though.

In the case that someone does want to swap switches, desoldering does take some time, but when done with care, it's not really a problem.

[Sup]

Fixed lay-out ruins it for me unless its in my flavor but i doubt  that will be something  . But i like soldering anyway and the more reliability it gives and i know what switches i will use on my boards.

[Leslieann]

All that and I still forgot layout issues.
Bleh.


I hope no one gets the idea I HATE hotswap, I use one, I'm typing on one right now, but it's just temporary while I play with some switches and look for something more permanent.

[Crazy Designers]

alright. thanks for all your opinions 

[envyy24]

Well for me personally I don't have the need to try every switch that comes out. I have something I love and I just want to stick to it, hence HS does not bring any benefit to me. I guess some share the same sentiment.

[Scottw]

I love the theory of hot swap, but I have yet had to find a hot swap that is both tight enough to not have the switches pop out when change keycaps or not be so tight that you end up scratching the plate and/or ruining a switch or two.

I do like having one hot swap board around to try things out, but otherwise, I prefer the solder long term.

[econeuler]

Agree with the people above!

Edit: I guess from a GB's point of view it depend on who you want to sell to?

[Sup]

alright. thanks for all your opinions 

It all depends what group you are targeting. If you target Geekhack enthusiast you  get soldered as answer. If you go to the Reddit mechanical keyboards you probably will get Hot-swap as a answer.

[Leslieann]

It all depends what group you are targeting. If you target Geekhack enthusiast you  get soldered as answer. If you go the Reddit mechanical keyboards you probably will get Hot-swap as a answer.

Most people are not buying $300+ keyboards and these are still relatively new, it's going to take a rash of broken keyboards before the we see the general opinion about them change. Few are going to say too much if their $50 Magicforce fails after 6 months but they sure as heck will when their $500 aluminum wunder breaks and there's no one to blame and no where to get parts.

[downtownHippie]

hot swaps are for convenience - screw that, it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything and have a setback and have to move forward from that.  Besides, hotswaps have to be perfect or they'll cause more issues long term.

[econeuler]

it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything

Haha, I like that analysis!

[Maledicted]

it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything

Haha, I like that analysis!

I agree, but at the same time, there's so little learning, or skill, required to take a blank PCB and solder some switches on. That's soldering 101. You could literally teach somebody to do it in 5 minutes or less.

[Sup]

it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything

Haha, I like that analysis!

I agree, but at the same time, there's so little learning, or skill, required to take a blank PCB and solder some switches on. That's soldering 101. You could literally teach somebody to do it in 5 minutes or less.

the new people that joined the mechanical keyboard scene aren't diy in anyway they are used to that everything gets laid out for them or at worst have to screw stuff together. I have told enough new people that soldering is easier then picking out of your nose but they are scared for molten metal and the scary heat stick and rather pay someone 50 bucks to do it for them and that is excluding the shipping cost to and back. This made me KEK a bit but this shows what way this hobby is gonna go to. In the future its gonna be all hotswap PCB's expect high end keyboard GB's.

[Leslieann]

hot swaps are for convenience - screw that, it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything and have a setback and have to move forward from that.  Besides, hotswaps have to be perfect or they'll cause more issues long term.

That argument has been going on for ages.

When was the last time you churned butter, milked a cow, baked a loaf of bread? Ideas, technology, methods and knowledge change as things move on and many people don't value repairability, look at the Surface Tablet, cell phones and Macbooks, it's all disposable (companies love disposable).

It's very possible we lost this fight the moment hot swap hit the market.

[jamster]

Never used one, but can't you just turn hotswap into soldered with the quick application of an iron?

Personally, I like the idea of hotswap. In practice, it wouldn't matter to me as I am not the kind of person who keeps changing bits of the keyboard around for years. I'll find a combination that works, and just stick with it.

I don't 'love' soldered boards, so much as distrust temporary connections for longevity.

[Leslieann]

Never used one, but can't you just turn hotswap into soldered with the quick application of an iron?

Personally, I like the idea of hotswap. In practice, it wouldn't matter to me as I am not the kind of person who keeps changing bits of the keyboard around for years. I'll find a combination that works, and just stick with it.

I don't 'love' soldered boards, so much as distrust temporary connections for longevity.

Yes and no.

Basically, soldered is a solid, through hole connection very unlikley to fail (the pcb is reinforced here). A soldered hotswap is a through hole for the switch (which is unlikely to fail), but then soldered to surface mount, on the wrong side of the pcb.

If you ever consider a switch tester, a cheap hotswap is a great way to go. I just wouldn't want it on a board I spent a lot of money on and plan on keeping 10 years.

[downtownHippie]

hot swaps are for convenience - screw that, it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything and have a setback and have to move forward from that.  Besides, hotswaps have to be perfect or they'll cause more issues long term.

That argument has been going on for ages.

[...]

It's very possible we lost this fight the moment hot swap hit the market.

we probably lost it a long time ago...fashion and marketing themselves are really the downfall...

[kwhilden]

I think holtite or mill-max sockets solve a lot problems with hotswap vs. kailh sockets.  They can't fall out or rip out if soldered properly. 

I like to buy 2 PCBs for my boards, and make one hotswap so I can experiment with switches to find what sounds best. 

[Rob27shred]

I agree with a lot of the reasons against hotswap on this thread. All very good points guys! For me I prefer solderable PCBs on high end keyboards mainly for reliability reasons. Like many have said for a hot swap PCB to truly hold up to a bunch of switch swapping the case has to be designed in such a way as to support the sockets. Or the PCB & sockets need to be redesigned from the ground up to be more robust. Both avenues will cause a sharp raise in the pricing of a board, also tailoring the case to the available HS PCBs & sockets would probably make for a very stiff feeling & not so good sounding board.

So to me high end keyboards utilizing hot swap PCBs is a huge contradiction. Almost like fixing up the body of an old american muscle car then putting a small V6 engine in it or pairing a 2080ti with a Core2Duo. Sure you have the ability to easily swap switches a few times, but what happens when a socket on the PCB breaks & it can not be bodge fixed? If there is anything custom on the PCB, once the GB has ran & the extra parts have all been sold you're SOL when the PCB breaks, which it will if you swap switches enough times on it.

Like Leslieann said, I don't want people to think I hate hot swap because I do not & genuinely think they have a place in the hobby. However that place is not with high end cases IMHO. To me hot swap PCBs work best in universal designs (tray mount 60% PCB for example) for mass produced parts that are lower end, middle of the road in quality. Hot swap is great for a lower to middle end starter board so someone can get a feel for their taste in switches & how they like them modded. Although I feel like if you are spending over $300 for mechanical keyboard kit you should already have a good ideal of how you want to build it (or even have it built, but I don't understand people who do not want to or are scared to build their own), & you should want the highest build quality possible with it. Which would require a solderable PCB.

[Maledicted]

it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything

Haha, I like that analysis!

I agree, but at the same time, there's so little learning, or skill, required to take a blank PCB and solder some switches on. That's soldering 101. You could literally teach somebody to do it in 5 minutes or less.

the new people that joined the mechanical keyboard scene aren't diy in anyway they are used to that everything gets laid out for them or at worst have to screw stuff together. I have told enough new people that soldering is easier then picking out of your nose but they are scared for molten metal and the scary heat stick and rather pay someone 50 bucks to do it for them and that is excluding the shipping cost to and back. This made me KEK a bit but this shows what way this hobby is gonna go to. In the future its gonna be all hotswap PCB's expect high end keyboard GB's.

I haven't been modifying boards at all until the last year or so (and have yet to build a kit board, because most don't interest me) ... but I have been soldering for more than a decade, so I suppose I'm an anomaly.

I really hope you're wrong about the trend. Having some easy soldering to do on something actually modern/useful was a breath of fresh air. I suppose it won't matter at all to me anyway though, since the only GB boards I have seen that I have even consdered getting so far are Satisfaction 75 and Heavy Metal Keyboards. lol

hot swaps are for convenience - screw that, it's gonna be the downfall of society - everything being easy that no one has to learn how to do anything or try anything and have a setback and have to move forward from that.  Besides, hotswaps have to be perfect or they'll cause more issues long term.

That argument has been going on for ages.

When was the last time you churned butter, milked a cow, baked a loaf of bread? Ideas, technology, methods and knowledge change as things move on and many people don't value repairability, look at the Surface Tablet, cell phones and Macbooks, it's all disposable (companies love disposable).

It's very possible we lost this fight the moment hot swap hit the market.

I think companies prefer something being as cheap as feasible without becoming a PR disaster though too, right? I think in that regard, even if that were the only motivating factor (which is a huge one), we may still retain soldered boards in the sea of hot swap ones. That hot swap socket costs a fraction of a cent, and adds an extra step to the assembly process. That, of course, also may balance out though in the long run if a company feels that they can just send a few replacement switches instead of having to take the board back (and maybe even pull a Matias and just sort of throw it into a warehouse somewhere for disposal instead of repairing it and just shipping out a new one). Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż

I agree with a lot of the reasons against hotswap on this thread. All very good points guys! For me I prefer solderable PCBs on high end keyboards mainly for reliability reasons. Like many have said for a hot swap PCB to truly hold up to a bunch of switch swapping the case has to be designed in such a way as to support the sockets. Or the PCB & sockets need to be redesigned from the ground up to be more robust. Both avenues will cause a sharp raise in the pricing of a board, also tailoring the case to the available HS PCBs & sockets would probably make for a very stiff feeling & not so good sounding board.

So to me high end keyboards utilizing hot swap PCBs is a huge contradiction. Almost like fixing up the body of an old american muscle car then putting a small V6 engine in it or pairing a 2080ti with a Core2Duo. Sure you have the ability to easily swap switches a few times, but what happens when a socket on the PCB breaks & it can not be bodge fixed? If there is anything custom on the PCB, once the GB has ran & the extra parts have all been sold you're SOL when the PCB breaks, which it will if you swap switches enough times on it.

Like Leslieann said, I don't want people to think I hate hot swap because I do not & genuinely think they have a place in the hobby. However that place is not with high end cases IMHO. To me hot swap PCBs work best in universal designs (tray mount 60% PCB for example) for mass produced parts that are lower end, middle of the road in quality. Hot swap is great for a lower to middle end starter board so someone can get a feel for their taste in switches & how they like them modded. Although I feel like if you are spending over $300 for mechanical keyboard kit you should already have a good ideal of how you want to build it (or even have it built, but I don't understand people who do not want to or are scared to build their own), & you should want the highest build quality possible with it. Which would require a solderable PCB.

^ Hear, hear

[Leslieann]

That hot swap socket costs a fraction of a cent, and adds an extra step to the assembly process. That, of course, also may balance out though in the long run if a company feels that they can just send a few replacement switches instead of having to take the board back

You're more than likely correct in assuming that the switch is the most failure-prone part in a keyboard (especially Matias) and making it easy to replace could save money, but what if hot swaps are even more failure prone than the switches themselves?

Let's assume hot swaps and switches both have equal failure rates, half the time you can send a switch, half the time you send a keyboard, you haven't gained anything, in fact you lost ground. The keyboard replacement numbers are identical to before except that instead of a replacement keyboard for a bad switch you're sending them for a bad hot swap, but you still have switch failures to deal with as well. Worse, you know the first thing the company will do is send a switch hoping it fixes the problem. Now the customer has waited for a switch, then has to wait for a new keyboard. On the company side, they spent money shipping two items instead of one, and have to still replace the keyboard.

Granted, we have no idea the failure rate for hot swap sockets, but even even they're a fraction the rate of switches it will cost companies more by the time you count all that shipping. On a $70 keyboard, how many times can you ship a replacement switch before all your profit is gone?

[Leslieann]

I think holtite or mill-max sockets solve a lot problems with hotswap vs. kailh sockets.  They can't fall out or rip out if soldered properly. 

They solve some problems but introduce others.

[nathanchere]

Main reasons for me:

1) hotswap boards tend to offer less layout options (particularly in 60% form factor - not such an issue with >= TKL boards)
2) my experience with hotswap sockets is they are unreliable after a few swaps. Others swear by them but I want a keyboard to just work and hotswap is meant to be largely about convenience - needing to pull apart a keyboard to see if a socket has come loose, switch pin is bent etc is not my idea of convenience.
3) I keep a cheap hotswap board to test new switches but otherwise the switches in my boards never change once I've decided on them.

[shallot]

Not gonna lie, hot swap is cool and all, but I really enjoy the act of soldering switches. It's just that one teeny step above custom keyboards just being expensive lego.

[-Jerry-]

- The inability to change layout if you need it for whatever reason. Filling two boards with a GMK set and finding that you have only one caps regular caps key and one stepped when both your boards are hotswap means that you don't have the flexibility to shift the switch across, for example.
- Durability of hotswap sockets isn't super, I've had two boards where I've had to re-solder the hotswap socket.

[Maledicted]

That hot swap socket costs a fraction of a cent, and adds an extra step to the assembly process. That, of course, also may balance out though in the long run if a company feels that they can just send a few replacement switches instead of having to take the board back

You're more than likely correct in assuming that the switch is the most failure-prone part in a keyboard (especially Matias) and making it easy to replace could save money, but what if hot swaps are even more failure prone than the switches themselves?

Let's assume hot swaps and switches both have equal failure rates, half the time you can send a switch, half the time you send a keyboard, you haven't gained anything, in fact you lost ground. The keyboard replacement numbers are identical to before except that instead of a replacement keyboard for a bad switch you're sending them for a bad hot swap, but you still have switch failures to deal with as well. Worse, you know the first thing the company will do is send a switch hoping it fixes the problem. Now the customer has waited for a switch, then has to wait for a new keyboard. On the company side, they spent money shipping two items instead of one, and have to still replace the keyboard.

Granted, we have no idea the failure rate for hot swap sockets, but even even they're a fraction the rate of switches it will cost companies more by the time you count all that shipping. On a $70 keyboard, how many times can you ship a replacement switch before all your profit is gone?

My choice of words in saying, "if the company feels" was deliberate. I don't think that relatively high-quality switches do fail very often, even Matias. I'm thinking whatever problems they have/had may have to do with too tight of tolerances and/or misaligned housings during the soldering process, based on what I have read. I know I have something like 5-7 Matias boards now, of various ages and general wear, and every single switch seems to work normally on all of them. One exception may be the parts board I got for almost nothing from them. I don't think I have thoroughly tested that one since it doesn't even have a full set of caps and stabilizers. I really should, to have a chance to maybe get to the bottom of all of that.

I digress. I think that soldered switches are most likely the cheapest path for a manufacturer, and the cheapest path seems to usually be the norm if the consumer base doesn't recoil from it.

[downtownHippie]

It's just that one teeny step above custom keyboards just being expensive lego.

Interesting perspective...especially since we've discussed how hotswaps are the downfall of society.  I love LEGO, but I'm not sure everything should be LEGO...

[tp4tissue]

Real Gekhrs want the FULL WIRED Experience.   Not the ****-wired experience.

TYPING with consequences.. 0 chatter

[Rob27shred]

Real Gekhrs want the FULL WIRED Experience.   Not the ****-wired experience.

TYPING with consequences.. 0 chatter

Preach on brother, preach on! 🙌

[Rob27shred]

I agree with a lot of the reasons against hotswap on this thread. All very good points guys! For me I prefer solderable PCBs on high end keyboards mainly for reliability reasons. Like many have said for a hot swap PCB to truly hold up to a bunch of switch swapping the case has to be designed in such a way as to support the sockets. Or the PCB & sockets need to be redesigned from the ground up to be more robust. Both avenues will cause a sharp raise in the pricing of a board, also tailoring the case to the available HS PCBs & sockets would probably make for a very stiff feeling & not so good sounding board.

So to me high end keyboards utilizing hot swap PCBs is a huge contradiction. Almost like fixing up the body of an old american muscle car then putting a small V6 engine in it or pairing a 2080ti with a Core2Duo. Sure you have the ability to easily swap switches a few times, but what happens when a socket on the PCB breaks & it can not be bodge fixed? If there is anything custom on the PCB, once the GB has ran & the extra parts have all been sold you're SOL when the PCB breaks, which it will if you swap switches enough times on it.

Like Leslieann said, I don't want people to think I hate hot swap because I do not & genuinely think they have a place in the hobby. However that place is not with high end cases IMHO. To me hot swap PCBs work best in universal designs (tray mount 60% PCB for example) for mass produced parts that are lower end, middle of the road in quality. Hot swap is great for a lower to middle end starter board so someone can get a feel for their taste in switches & how they like them modded. Although I feel like if you are spending over $300 for mechanical keyboard kit you should already have a good ideal of how you want to build it (or even have it built, but I don't understand people who do not want to or are scared to build their own), & you should want the highest build quality possible with it. Which would require a solderable PCB.

^ Hear, hear

Thank bud! 

[yui_]

Previously desoldered switches (which is a necessity if using vintage switches) often don't play nicely with hotswap sockets if the legs aren't cleaned well enough.
The pins can be a nuisance to align just right for the sockets to work.
Over a number of swaps, the hotswap sockets weaken and eventually need to be replaced, nullifying the need for them in the first place if soldering is eventually required (imo anyway).
And lastly, I personally believe that soldering the board, making it your own, is one of the best parts of the custom kb experience. 

[Maledicted]

Previously desoldered switches (which is a necessity if using vintage switches) often don't play nicely with hotswap sockets if the legs aren't cleaned well enough.
The pins can be a nuisance to align just right for the sockets to work.
Over a number of swaps, the hotswap sockets weaken and eventually need to be replaced, nullifying the need for them in the first place if soldering is eventually required (imo anyway).
And lastly, I personally believe that soldering the board, making it your own, is one of the best parts of the custom kb experience. 

I know it would be a pain, and I definitely haven't even tried putting used switches in a hot swap socket before (or any switches in a hot swap socket), but couldn't you just use some desoldering braid on each of the legs?

[ddrfraser1]

I've never bought a hotswap board. For me, soldering is a cathartic experience. With zero evidence to back up my claim, hotswap just seems less solid to me and therefore lower quality. Again, this is just a negative bias I have that is based on nothing. Aside from that, I build boards intentionally with specific switches in mind. Once I get to that 10/10 feel, why would I want to change it? My 2 cents for what little it's worth... 

[Leslieann]

I know it would be a pain, and I definitely haven't even tried putting used switches in a hot swap socket before (or any switches in a hot swap socket), but couldn't you just use some desoldering braid on each of the legs?

If you miss anything it can cause problems.
Worse, you're now dumping A LOT of heat right into the leg of a switch without anything sucking that heat away. You can very easily damage a switch doing this, ESPECIALLY those with an ABS housing.

Lead solder is 170-200c, lead-free is even higher, ABS plastic softens at around 110c. Polycarbonate switch housing will handle it better (it softens are a MUCH higher temp), but the heat can creep up the legs and damage the slider and bake the lube... Yes, this is an extreme case, but so is trying to move solder wick around trying to clean off such a tiny little peg.

[Maledicted]

I know it would be a pain, and I definitely haven't even tried putting used switches in a hot swap socket before (or any switches in a hot swap socket), but couldn't you just use some desoldering braid on each of the legs?

If you miss anything it can cause problems.
Worse, you're now dumping A LOT of heat right into the leg of a switch without anything sucking that heat away. You can very easily damage a switch doing this, ESPECIALLY those with an ABS housing.

Lead solder is 170-200c, lead-free is even higher, ABS plastic softens at around 110c. Polycarbonate switch housing will handle it better (it softens are a MUCH higher temp), but the heat can creep up the legs and damage the slider and bake the lube... Yes, this is an extreme case, but so is trying to move solder wick around trying to clean off such a tiny little peg.

Yes, excessive heat certainly makes sense. There's always a file as well, I suppose. lol

[jamster]

I've never bought a hotswap board. For me, soldering is a cathartic experience. With zero evidence to back up my claim, hotswap just seems less solid to me and therefore lower quality. Again, this is just a negative bias I have that is based on nothing. Aside from that, I build boards intentionally with specific switches in mind. Once I get to that 10/10 feel, why would I want to change it? My 2 cents for what little it's worth... 

Been around IT gear all my working life. As a result, I'm pretty paranoid about good contacts between gear. Cables have to be securely attached and preferably redundant, hotswap hard drive bays are designed for purpose rather than a tacked on bodge. The downside of a keyboard switch connection going wrong is trivial, but still it goes against anything working in tech has taught me.

(In the days of VGA and DVI connectors, I'd always do up the screws when hooking up monitors. I gather that was not the norm for many people.)

I'd still like to mess about with a hotswap board, and have one on the way. But I still think it isn't something that should be the norm for a long term keyboard.

[Maledicted]

I've never bought a hotswap board. For me, soldering is a cathartic experience. With zero evidence to back up my claim, hotswap just seems less solid to me and therefore lower quality. Again, this is just a negative bias I have that is based on nothing. Aside from that, I build boards intentionally with specific switches in mind. Once I get to that 10/10 feel, why would I want to change it? My 2 cents for what little it's worth... 

Been around IT gear all my working life. As a result, I'm pretty paranoid about good contacts between gear. Cables have to be securely attached and preferably redundant, hotswap hard drive bays are designed for purpose rather than a tacked on bodge. The downside of a keyboard switch connection going wrong is trivial, but still it goes against anything working in tech has taught me.

(In the days of VGA and DVI connectors, I'd always do up the screws when hooking up monitors. I gather that was not the norm for many people.)

I'd still like to mess about with a hotswap board, and have one on the way. But I still think it isn't something that should be the norm for a long term keyboard.

We still have a bunch of systems using VGA monitors, lol. I have always tightened the screws, I think everyone I work with always has too. I have seen VGA cables completely ripped through though ... somehow, at the middle school.

[Leslieann]

The connector wasn't designed to support itself, so you really should use the screws, same for DVI.

[ddrfraser1]

I've never bought a hotswap board. For me, soldering is a cathartic experience. With zero evidence to back up my claim, hotswap just seems less solid to me and therefore lower quality. Again, this is just a negative bias I have that is based on nothing. Aside from that, I build boards intentionally with specific switches in mind. Once I get to that 10/10 feel, why would I want to change it? My 2 cents for what little it's worth... 

Been around IT gear all my working life. As a result, I'm pretty paranoid about good contacts between gear. Cables have to be securely attached and preferably redundant, hotswap hard drive bays are designed for purpose rather than a tacked on bodge. The downside of a keyboard switch connection going wrong is trivial, but still it goes against anything working in tech has taught me.

(In the days of VGA and DVI connectors, I'd always do up the screws when hooking up monitors. I gather that was not the norm for many people.)

I'd still like to mess about with a hotswap board, and have one on the way. But I still think it isn't something that should be the norm for a long term keyboard.

Yep. I resonate with all this.

[-Jerry-]

I've never bought a hotswap board. For me, soldering is a cathartic experience. With zero evidence to back up my claim, hotswap just seems less solid to me and therefore lower quality. Again, this is just a negative bias I have that is based on nothing. Aside from that, I build boards intentionally with specific switches in mind. Once I get to that 10/10 feel, why would I want to change it? My 2 cents for what little it's worth... 

Been around IT gear all my working life. As a result, I'm pretty paranoid about good contacts between gear. Cables have to be securely attached and preferably redundant, hotswap hard drive bays are designed for purpose rather than a tacked on bodge. The downside of a keyboard switch connection going wrong is trivial, but still it goes against anything working in tech has taught me.

(In the days of VGA and DVI connectors, I'd always do up the screws when hooking up monitors. I gather that was not the norm for many people.)

I'd still like to mess about with a hotswap board, and have one on the way. But I still think it isn't something that should be the norm for a long term keyboard.

We still have a bunch of systems using VGA monitors, lol. I have always tightened the screws, I think everyone I work with always has too. I have seen VGA cables completely ripped through though ... somehow, at the middle school.

I learned a long time ago to always do them up or suffer video glitches the moment you touch the cable. The nice thing about digital connections is at least they’re largely 1/0 - connector too far out, black screen.

[Zytyx]

Biggest issues I have with hotswap pcbs that haven't been mentioned yet are that the case needs to be designed in a way to support the pcb, along side the switch orientations often being flipped in order to have space for other components. Designing the case correctly so that the pcb is supported will create a much more rigid typing feel, something many try to avoid in higher end cases. Also, if the switch orientations are flipped, the issue of Cherry profile caps colliding with the housings of the switches comes up. Overall, neither are ideal in a high end keyboard scenario.