Author Topic: Subwoofer volume  (Read 596 times)

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Offline tp4tissue

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Subwoofer volume
« on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 13:08:57 »
Never bothered to measure,  but after using room eq (measurement software).   Finally got it at the exact volume and crossover freq.    I used the same umik as I got for tuning the piano.

It was definitely too high before. Music seems much more detailed now,  the sub isn't washing out the sound and just pokes its head up when its needed.

I remember this guy telling me one time that you basically shouldn't know that you have a subwoofer. As if everything is coming from the front pair.

Dun' know.     What procedure do youses use for sub vol + crossover ?



Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #1 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 15:17:07 »
Honestly, I had been planning to fine-tune my PC's speakers this coming up weekend, but literally yesterday the right speaker of my front pair died. To be fair, it's an old hand-me-down set of speakers that used to be my mother's that she handed down to me when I got my first desktop years ago. They were kinda on their last legs, but I wanted to invest the time to tune them anyway because they're what I had lol. But my process for those speakers would've been to just play the music I usually listen to, and adjust the treble and bass knobs until I got the desired sound - not too bass-y, but still punchy and nice.

Now I just need to replace them entirely. :(

Offline Faceman76

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #2 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:11:36 »
Marantz AV7005 built in measurement software and external mic does a good job.  Verified with a Dayton OmniMic, there was a smooth transition from mains to subs. 

I also use the OmniMic for crossover design and have no complaints.

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Offline dgneo

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #3 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:16:45 »
PC - I just set it to whatever sounds good, I don't feel like ****ing with the settings. Using Klipsch ProMedia 2.1

HT - TV > SPDIF > Pioneer SC-05 > Adcom GFA-555 II > B&W CM9s & Mirage Omni S8 Sub. I use the Pioneer's built in MCACC calibration (using a mic) to set everything to proper levels, and I'm very happy with the results.

Offline Sniping

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #4 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:20:28 »
i don't use a subwoofer. audio is one of the things where like good enough is fine for me. there are woofers in the floorstanding speakers i use and i have the bass cranked up a bit on the receiver. i feel like as long as it sounds good to you you're golden, i don't really care about having settings that are balanced or purist, and i think it took me a while to realize that when i used to buy headphones.
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Offline alertArchitect

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #5 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 16:27:58 »
i don't use a subwoofer. audio is one of the things where like good enough is fine for me. there are woofers in the floorstanding speakers i use and i have the bass cranked up a bit on the receiver. i feel like as long as it sounds good to you you're golden, i don't really care about having settings that are balanced or purist, and i think it took me a while to realize that when i used to buy headphones.

Fair enough! Not everyone can be an audiophile!

Offline jamster

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #6 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 21:43:25 »
Isn't crossover for a sub typically at about 80-100Hz or thereabouts?

Not much music really gets down that low and the emphasis is usually midrange, so yeah, if the sub is taking a lot of your attention, it's probably turned up too high.

Offline Faceman76

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #7 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 21:46:29 »
Isn't crossover for a sub typically at about 80-100Hz or thereabouts?

Not much music really gets down that low and the emphasis is usually midrange, so yeah, if the sub is taking a lot of your attention, it's probably turned up too high.
It depends on what you listen to.  A lot of rock and industrial dig deep.  NIN even has some sub 20hz content. 

Agreed that the crossover should be low enough that it doesn't call attention to itself.
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Offline jamster

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #8 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:00:17 »
Isn't crossover for a sub typically at about 80-100Hz or thereabouts?

Not much music really gets down that low and the emphasis is usually midrange, so yeah, if the sub is taking a lot of your attention, it's probably turned up too high.
It depends on what you listen to.  A lot of rock and industrial dig deep.  NIN even has some sub 20hz content. 

Agreed that the crossover should be low enough that it doesn't call attention to itself.

I've really had to look for specific tracks to test out sub performance, and often the tracks have surprised as it otherwise comes across as light electronica (e.g. Daft Punk).

IMO a sub should add a touch of 'presence' or tactility more than a 'hey, that's really deep!'

One of the most interesting things I found playing with a sub was how obvious room nulls are with long frequencies. If you play a pure sine wave and walk around the room, you can easily find total null spots with no sound at all. I would highly recommend it- REW has a sinewave generator, though I'm sure that Youtube also has a load of sinewave files. 30-60Hz are easily long enough for nulls.
« Last Edit: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:01:58 by jamster »

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:06:43 »

it doesn't call attention to itself
 

My ex-wife always used to say "it's supposed to just work"

What an astonishing concept. How is anything "supposed to just work"? *entropy*? eh?

Anything that "just works" is a spectacular accomplishment. When we humans are able to simply *make something happen* in the background, without drawing attention to itself, we have orchestrated something amazing and sublime.

Appreciate the invisible and intangible. "Getting out of the way" is something very hard to achieve.

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Democrats and progressives want politics to be about policies that will help Americans and solve problems; Trumpists want to make politics about lies, insults, personalities and tribal warfare, so that the American people continue to believe that politics is just a sideshow that has nothing to do with their lives.
Journalists should hold politicians accountable on both sides of the aisle, but they should do so in substantive ways, not by asking irrelevant questions that look more like gotcha oppo research than substantive questions about policy. At a deeper level, the choices that journalists and media companies make right now will have an important impact on whether we as a nation are able to rise from the destruction of January 6th to revitalize our democracy, or to slide helplessly into fascism.
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Offline Faceman76

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:24:13 »
Appreciate the invisible and intangible. "Getting out of the way" is something very hard to achieve.
The best config I had was when I was single and 8 15's in my living room, flat, no nulls some DSP and response below 20hz.  Now with 4 open baffle 15's, I'm content with what I have and I there's a lot more space for other things, lol.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #11 on: Mon, 22 February 2021, 22:29:34 »
IMO a sub should add a touch of 'presence' or tactility more than a 'hey, that's really deep!'

One of the most interesting things I found playing with a sub was how obvious room nulls are with long frequencies. If you play a pure sine wave and walk around the room, you can easily find total null spots with no sound at all. I would highly recommend it- REW has a sinewave generator, though I'm sure that Youtube also has a load of sinewave files. 30-60Hz are easily long enough for nulls.

I really don't think we should be deriving tactility specifically from subs, because if it's jiggling your stomach fat THAT much, it's probably way too loud in other frequencies, and is causing hearing damage.

I think seat transducers should take that role to save your ears.

Offline jamster

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 00:42:02 »
The best config I had was when I was single and 8 15's in my living room, flat, no nulls some DSP and response below 20hz.  Now with 4 open baffle 15's, I'm content with what I have and I there's a lot more space for other things, lol.

Is this something you built yourself? Off the shelf open baffle seems to be very uncommon.


I really don't think we should be deriving tactility specifically from subs, because if it's jiggling your stomach fat THAT much, it's probably way too loud in other frequencies, and is causing hearing damage.
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Perhaps I should have used 'texture' instead of 'tactility'. I am terrible with adjectives to describe audio.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 01:07:53 »
I turn it up until it sounds good (enough) without bothering housemates or neighbors.
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Offline funkmon

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 08:24:16 »
I max it and then adjust my satellite speaker volume until it sounds right. Then, I don't touch the knobs and only adjust system volume. Very fancy.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 08:25:59 »
Have you guys used Room Equalizer(ing) to match a neutral curve ?  Thoughts ? good/ bad / distortion ?

In principle it works, but what are the unintended side-effects ?

Offline funkmon

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 23 February 2021, 08:45:20 »
I don't even know what those words mean.


Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 16:54:52 »
This thing totally works !! Amazing !! Sounds great



Native measurement, (notice the valley dips, room cancellations)

263026-0

After Correction table

263028-1


Offline Faceman76

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 19:18:37 »
Nice job!  I use a simple parametric EQ in J. River to just smooth out the worst peaks and nulls. 

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Offline jamster

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 20:56:27 »
Have you guys used Room Equalizer(ing) to match a neutral curve ?  Thoughts ? good/ bad / distortion ?

In principle it works, but what are the unintended side-effects ?


Nope, never tried to match to specific targets. I just try to understand the output of my speakers, and now have a rough idea of what sort of response I prefer (though it's more that at least I know what I will end up hating), but do not even try to match to 'recommended' curves.

There's not a huge amount I can do to the room, no amount of EQ will fix speakers that I fundamentally hate (I have tried), and otherwise my hearing isn't good enough bother with fine grained EQ adjustments, so as long as my speakers are roughly OK, I am happy.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 February 2021, 20:58:43 by jamster »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:17:44 »
Yea, the whole Doing-Up-The-Room angle seems very suspicious to me, cuz you see the professional studios, the kind of stuff they got on the wall and the density of it, if it takes THAT MUCH STUFF to be neutral,  nothing done at home, even some of the more elaborate looking ones come close to it.

Offline jamster

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:28:46 »
I think that beyond some simple non-reflective surfaces or bookshelves, that there probably isn't much to be done for most rooms.

Looked into it out of curiosity last year, when I was making DIY acoustic panels because of covid boredom. For stuff that would help tune bass, you were looking at materials 2 feet thick.

I've not done any time-domain audio testing with my cheap mic though, so this is purely speculative! I simply got so turned off by the crazy amounts of audiophile magical thinking out there that I just shy away from taking anything too seriously.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 February 2021, 21:31:38 by jamster »

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Subwoofer volume
« Reply #23 on: Sat, 27 February 2021, 11:55:55 »
After some more testing.

Am really impressed by the even-ness this processor is achieving.  In principal a more linear frequency response minimizes coloration which then more transparently transcribes the artistic intent of the mastering.

Measurements with matched lvls


263164-0

263166-1