Author Topic: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show  (Read 4407 times)

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Offline fohat.digs

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Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 08:41:01 »
Yesterday one of the last 9 flying B-17 bombers crashed and burned at an air show. (disclosure - B-17 was the plane my father crewed in WW2 (based in England at RAF Alconbury) with the 8th Air Force)

It was struck by a P-63 in mid-air. Was that pilot an idiot or was there some other explanation?

While the B-17 is legendary and was built by the thousands, the P-63 is not very well known. It is basically a greatly-improved P-39, and almost all of them were given to the Soviets for use in the Pacific theater.


« Last Edit: Sun, 13 November 2022, 12:20:45 by fohat.digs »
America is becoming a country that can no longer question itself, invest in the public good or imagine a future beyond the dreamscapes of the rich and ruling elite. Apocalyptic fears, uncertainties and anxieties feed a rising tsunami of violence that has become the organizing principle of governance, everyday life and society itself. American society is caught in the daily routines of lies, corruption and manufactured ignorance; one consequence is the withering of individual and social agency along with civic culture and the public imagination. American optimism has turned bleak. In the age of gangster capitalism, people lose their interconnections, community and sense of security. Isolation and anxiety gives way to mass depression and is ripe for expressions of rage and hatred. The guard rails of justice, compassion, the welfare state, politics, democratic values and the institutions that nourish them are under threat of disappearing. Apocalyptic terrors have moved from the realm of fiction into the social fabric of everyday life. - Henry Giroux 2023-03-05

Offline SBJ

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 09:41:52 »
Terrible accident (I hope).
I don't know enough about planes to have an idea of what happened, but it's tragic.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #2 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 09:52:28 »
how did, i mean, it's a big plane, but yea every thing look small when you're up there, pilot could've lost vision from blood pressure doing stunt plane stuff.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 11:45:02 »
]how did, i mean, it's a big plane, but yea every thing look small when you're up there, pilot could've lost vision from blood pressure doing stunt plane stuff.
The angle the P-63 came in/down at meant the B-17 was under it's nose, as big as the B-17 is, they never saw it.
They should have seen it at some point much earlier on but there was a lot of planes in the airspace and flying directly in their path to keep track of. Too many planes and not enough coordination. Accident waiting to happen.


Get out and see these old planes flying while you can, there's 4 flying B-17's left in the U.S. and only two flying B-29's in the world. Pretty sure they spent $1B getting Doc, a B-29, flying again and they probably couldn't do another for anywhere close to that.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 16:55:58 »
When I was a kid I saw a airshow crash in Maryland. A stuntman was doing that trick where they nosedive at the ground and pull up at the last moment, except he didn't pull up in time. What I remember the most was how the announcer basically glazed over it saying medics were checking on him and to enjoy some refreshments from the concession stand. The velocity and subsequent fireball, everyone knew he did not make it.

Also very odd how you worded this with more concern about the loss of the plane than of the human life
« Last Edit: Sun, 13 November 2022, 16:57:31 by noisyturtle »

Offline lakeboredom

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 17:43:56 »
A historic airplane is more important than a person they didn't know, yeah.

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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 18:29:03 »
A historic airplane is more important than a person they didn't know, yeah.

Sent from my moto g power (2022) using Tapatalk



I could not disagree more, but people these days are exposed to so much horror many are desensitized and callous.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 19:27:07 »
The cost of a human life vs a plane..    if we refer to the market,  each plane costs thousands of human lifetimes worth of resources and labor to produce,  so technically they are worth significantly more than any "singular" human life.

As for desensitization/ callousness. I guess that depends on what aspect of humanity you're referring to.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 13 November 2022, 20:21:45 »

A historic airplane is more important than a person they didn't know, yeah.

I could not disagree more, but people these days are exposed to so much horror many are desensitized and callous.

To be absolutely honest, being relentlessly bombarded by hysterical anti-abortionists for years on end has made me do a lot of soul-searching. And rather than having the effect of "sensitizing" me I have - yes - become what you would probably call "desensitized" ....

I have come to the conclusion that, in the grand scheme of things, individual lives of individual persons (much less embryos and fetuses!) are just not all that important relative to this aggregate "thing" that we are all a part of. Which is not to say that horrors such as wars and terrorist killings are not horrible.

At this point I have come to think (the best ultra-simple working description would be to say) that I perceive the Planet Earth to be a single living organism of which we are each a very small part. And our parts can be healthy or unhealthy, even up to the level of fast-growing cancers.

Further, I have come to think of "personhood" as something that we grow into (some cultures do not really consider children to be full persons until they are 1-2-3-4- years old) and which we can also fall out of. Which of the mammals in the photo below would you consider to be more "good" or "valuable"?

 
America is becoming a country that can no longer question itself, invest in the public good or imagine a future beyond the dreamscapes of the rich and ruling elite. Apocalyptic fears, uncertainties and anxieties feed a rising tsunami of violence that has become the organizing principle of governance, everyday life and society itself. American society is caught in the daily routines of lies, corruption and manufactured ignorance; one consequence is the withering of individual and social agency along with civic culture and the public imagination. American optimism has turned bleak. In the age of gangster capitalism, people lose their interconnections, community and sense of security. Isolation and anxiety gives way to mass depression and is ripe for expressions of rage and hatred. The guard rails of justice, compassion, the welfare state, politics, democratic values and the institutions that nourish them are under threat of disappearing. Apocalyptic terrors have moved from the realm of fiction into the social fabric of everyday life. - Henry Giroux 2023-03-05

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #9 on: Mon, 14 November 2022, 11:03:20 »
Gotta love the internet where something you didn't say is taken to be more important than what you did.
"I like cheesecake"
"Oh, so you hate chocolate cake, you're such a jerk!"

It was a technical comment, yes, it sucks for their families and it's not that I don't feel bad for them but is this the right venue to express it?  Were your feeling personally hurt or are you just trying to cause a scene? Stop being so performative.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #10 on: Mon, 14 November 2022, 11:14:07 »
Gotta love the internet where something you didn't say is taken to be more important than what you did.
"I like cheesecake"
"Oh, so you hate chocolate cake, you're such a jerk!"

It was a technical comment, yes, it sucks for their families and it's not that I don't feel bad for them but is this the right venue to express it?  Were your feeling personally hurt or are you just trying to cause a scene? Stop being so performative.

would the opposite even be true? can a random internet person actually be "so empathetic" that his feelings towards a random death worlds apart are genuine and/or consequential.

tp4 is of the school, that expressed empathy in most forms are quite disingenuous.  the difference between caring and pretending to care at such a distance is minuscule.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 15 November 2022, 12:11:17 »
would the opposite even be true? can a random internet person actually be "so empathetic" that his feelings towards a random death worlds apart are genuine and/or consequential.

Yes, but if you have that bad of a response I would say you need professional help.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #12 on: Tue, 15 November 2022, 13:24:20 »
would the opposite even be true? can a random internet person actually be "so empathetic" that his feelings towards a random death worlds apart are genuine and/or consequential.

Yes, but if you have that bad of a response I would say you need professional help.



Tp4 needs professional help, but he can not afford it, so he buys electr0nix to fill the dystopian void.

Online pixelpusher

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 15 November 2022, 14:28:22 »
Both of these planes were here this summer at the Air Show near me.  We attended.  I have photos somewhere of both planes.  The B17 was selling tickets to ride around in it as an air tour.  My son wanted to go but it was sold out.  Pretty tragic incident.

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Tragic loss of a B-17 at an air show
« Reply #14 on: Wed, 16 November 2022, 02:56:28 »
You usually need to book well in advance for either the B-17s or B-29s, otherwise you hope you get lucky and someone can't make it.
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