Author Topic: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala  (Read 13117 times)

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Offline fohat.digs

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Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« on: Wed, 24 July 2024, 12:59:07 »
Although I still believe that President Biden's knowledge and experience would have made him the best choice for President, I understand that he was probably leaking support from young voters - the most important demographic as the future comes at us faster than ever.

My children were raised to understand that being engaged and voting in every election is an imperative, not an option, but they have indicated to me that many of their friends and acquaintances had become disengaged and apathetic. Although the Democratic Party has consistently addressed all of their concerns, it seems like the most recent generations fail to recognize it, or claim that it is "not enough" - as if somebody else is trying to do better.

I have trust that a former Attorney General of the most populous state can block out the noise and focus her energy on defending the foundational principles of our country

to form a more perfect Union
establish Justice
insure domestic Tranquility
provide for the common defence
promote the general Welfare
and secure the Blessings of Liberty

Here is an interesting look at what happened in a smaller country a few years ago.
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/harrismania-jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-kamala

« Last Edit: Wed, 24 July 2024, 16:31:23 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #1 on: Wed, 24 July 2024, 15:14:54 »
People keep saying "oh but her foreign policy" which to me is a total moot point.

Have you taken a look around you in the US lately? We need to focus on fixing what is broken here. Now. It has already gotten too bad too quickly.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 24 July 2024, 16:37:46 »
The entire US foreign policy, is kill anyone who disagrees with us. That's never ever changed.

The problem TODAY, is everyone has nukes, so we effectively can't kill anyone, and we don't know how to cope.

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 04:46:41 »
My children were raised to understand that being engaged and voting in every election is an imperative, not an option, but they have indicated to me that many of their friends and acquaintances had become disengaged and apathetic. Although the Democratic Party has consistently addressed all of their concerns, it seems like the most recent generations fail to recognize it, or claim that it is "not enough" - as if somebody else is trying to do better.
I've found myself consistently watching and reading less and less news the last few years. everything is so depressing, all the bad news is so overwhelming, and the obstacles we face seem so insurmountable, with seemingly nobody willing to even acknowledge them, and no political party I can really agree with, that I've become numb to it all. So I think I might understand where your children are coming from.

That said, I find topics like this, that give me insight into the perspectives of others, still highly interesting. 

The entire US foreign policy, is kill anyone who disagrees with us. That's never ever changed.

The problem TODAY, is everyone has nukes, so we effectively can't kill anyone, and we don't know how to cope.

For better or worse, America is the controlling force in the West, and honestly I feel a lot safer because of the protection it provides me.

Despite Trump having completely compromised the entire security of NATO with a single remark, I can't even imagine what would happen if the EU would get into a major conflict with Russia or China or another Eastern power and we didn't have the US' support to rely on. Of course Trump is now actually actively encouraging our enemies to attack us, which is quite terrifying, and really a sign we should become more self-reliant, but it feels like a shame that our combined alliance is falling apart.

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 08:33:02 »
For better or worse, America is the controlling force in the West, and honestly I feel a lot safer because of the protection it provides me.

Despite Trump having completely compromised the entire security of NATO with a single remark, I can't even imagine what would happen if the EU would get into a major conflict with Russia or China or another Eastern power and we didn't have the US' support to rely on. Of course Trump is now actually actively encouraging our enemies to attack us, which is quite terrifying, and really a sign we should become more self-reliant, but it feels like a shame that our combined alliance is falling apart.


That thinking is PRE- Nuclear.

No nuclear weaponized nation can destroy one another. That is a fact.

Even a nation without Launch-Vehicles, as long as they have nukes, they can initiate nuclear winter ON THEIR OWN. This is deterrence enough such that larger nations can not truly mess with you that much.

Even short of nuclear winter,  a single nuclear power plant is the equivalent of 100,000 to 500,000x Hiroshima bomb worth of radiation.   All they'd have to do, is melt one,  and again, it's Deterrence-enough.


So, in THIS world, where Doomsday Mechanics Exist, the only thing military alliances do is get people killed for NO_GOOD_REASON.

It's unfortunate that human society does not know how to function any other way.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 08:51:36 »

no political party I can really agree with

combined alliance is falling apart.


Can you give me a specific example of something that the Democratic Party has done that you don't agree with, with the exception of giving far too much support to the Right in Israel?

And does that outweigh any number of other examples, to name climate change for just one?

The question is to chyros, not to toilet paper for tissue.
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 09:12:05 »
There is only minor differences between the 2 parties.

Both parties are extremely RIGHT-wing.




Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 09:40:12 »

minor differences


You are an arrogant *******.

Not matter how slight differences may be, if voters waste their opportunities to steer towards a better tomorrow then they can only blame themselves if things get worse.
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 10:23:49 »

minor differences


You are an arrogant *******.

Not matter how slight differences may be, if voters waste their opportunities to steer towards a better tomorrow then they can only blame themselves if things get worse.


The fact that fohat believes we live in a democracy is laughable.

Both parties are business parties, both extremely right wing, entirely imperialistic. Both parties want to burn more fossil fuels to expand the economy, NEITHER parties has any plan to meaningfully curtail business as usual.

Under Biden, United States has become the world's Largest oil producer.  What the democrats claim to be doing about the climate, doesn't jive with what's actually happening.

The fohat always talk about moving the needle.  Yea, it's always moving towards the Lack of a future, be it democrat or republican.

Capitalism / Imperialism / Humanity only knows how to do 1 thing.



Offline Findecanor

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 11:30:55 »
For better or worse, America is the controlling force in the West, and honestly I feel a lot safer because of the protection it provides me.

Despite Trump having completely compromised the entire security of NATO with a single remark, I can't even imagine what would happen if the EU would get into a major conflict with Russia or China or another Eastern power and we didn't have the US' support to rely on. Of course Trump is now actually actively encouraging our enemies to attack us, which is quite terrifying, and really a sign we should become more self-reliant, but it feels like a shame that our combined alliance is falling apart.
My country (Sweden) recently joined NATO after having been neutral for a long time.

We also got into a "Defence Cooperation Agreement" with USA itself, to allow US troops to be stationed here ... in addition to the conditions in the NATO treaty.
The reason why is to get a faster response than with just NATO, in case Russia does something.

The biggest argument against it was of course: Trump is likely to become president, and everything he could do. Trump is more aligned with Putin than with us.
(I protested for hours against the DCA, and then watched in sadness as the parliament vote for it...)

minor differences
It used to be like that for decades, and yes both parties have become increasingly under the control of major corporations.
But there is still a major degree of difference.

Trump is backed by de-facto nazis who wants a corporate totalitarian state and to wreck the Earth for short-term profit.
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 July 2024, 11:49:41 by Findecanor »
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #10 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 11:43:16 »

The biggest argument against it was of course: Trump.


How different it would be if non-Americans had a voice in how we govern ourselves ....

A disease like Trump could spread across the globe with lightning speed.

https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1816288577342369995
« Last Edit: Thu, 25 July 2024, 12:16:39 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #11 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 18:13:20 »
For better or worse, America is the controlling force in the West, and honestly I feel a lot safer because of the protection it provides me.

Despite Trump having completely compromised the entire security of NATO with a single remark, I can't even imagine what would happen if the EU would get into a major conflict with Russia or China or another Eastern power and we didn't have the US' support to rely on. Of course Trump is now actually actively encouraging our enemies to attack us, which is quite terrifying, and really a sign we should become more self-reliant, but it feels like a shame that our combined alliance is falling apart.
My country (Sweden) recently joined NATO after having been neutral for a long time.

We also got into a "Defence Cooperation Agreement" with USA itself, to allow US troops to be stationed here ... in addition to the conditions in the NATO treaty.
The reason why is to get a faster response than with just NATO, in case Russia does something.

The biggest argument against it was of course: Trump is likely to become president, and everything he could do. Trump is more aligned with Putin than with us.
(I protested for hours against the DCA, and then watched in sadness as the parliament vote for it...)

minor differences
It used to be like that for decades, and yes both parties have become increasingly under the control of major corporations.
But there is still a major degree of difference.

Trump is backed by de-facto nazis who wants a corporate totalitarian state and to wreck the Earth for short-term profit.
It is a sad, but inevitable lesson us Europeans have to learn; we can not just sit idly by and bicker about millennia-old differences. Culturally ununited as we are (which is actually okay), we have to stick together, at least militarily, and be able to fend for ourselves. I'll freely admit that when I was a kid, I was a strong opponent of spending loads of money on the military - perhaps a by-product of the Bush administration, and perhaps a youthful, innocent ignorance on the possibilities of war on our doorstep. However, it's become clear we cannot be left potentially defenceless and at the whim of a complete lunatic ready to sell the whole continent off to a Russian dictator.

Thankfully, most countries in the East are fairly well-prepared, and most are culturally ready to fight as well, should the fight come to their doorstep. I probably would chicken out of defending even my own country, let alone one on the other side of the continent. Not something I'm proud of.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #12 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 18:32:50 »
I've always been a left-leaning centrist, but the past decade or so the 2 party system has unraveled and become mostly about virtue signaling and incendiary talking points.
I don't like either option. Both parties have swung cartoonishly towards their extremes. Extreme roads lead to inevitable divides, compromise and the interest of the American People are no longer the end goals of either Democrats or Republicans. I hate what this country has become.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #13 on: Thu, 25 July 2024, 21:40:13 »

Both parties have swung cartoonishly towards their extremes.


No - the entire system has been dragged so drastically rightwards that the "center" is now labelled as the "far left"
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #14 on: Fri, 26 July 2024, 00:55:00 »

Both parties have swung cartoonishly towards their extremes.


No - the entire system has been dragged so drastically rightwards that the "center" is now labelled as the "far left"
Admittedly watching from over here it looks like you guys can only choose between right-wing extremists and right-wing fundamentalists, yeah.
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #15 on: Fri, 26 July 2024, 02:40:56 »

Both parties have swung cartoonishly towards their extremes.


No - the entire system has been dragged so drastically rightwards that the "center" is now labelled as the "far left"


I think people who are entrenched and invested wholly in either side would say the 'system' has been dragged too far opposite their favor.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #16 on: Fri, 26 July 2024, 07:48:50 »
I think people who are entrenched and invested wholly in either side would say the 'system' has been dragged too far opposite their favor.

Only the poor and wannabe-rich thinks they've invested in "a side".

The (truly) rich do not view politics that way.   They adhere to a strict profit-loss policy assessment.

Younger offspring of the (truly rich) might at times behave like a wannabe or an idealist, but this usually breaks once the naivety of youth wanes.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #17 on: Fri, 26 July 2024, 08:37:09 »

dragged too far opposite their favor.


You were born in the early 1980s weren't you? There was a seismic shift rightwards in the late 1970s that seemed to come out of nowhere. Younger voters don't remember it and can't understand how different the political landscape was in the Before Times. (eg Nixon created the EPA)

Actually it was shepharded in, perhaps most significantly, by Paul Weyrich (check him out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Weyrich) and significantly amped up in about 1977 when he had the brainstorm that he could take a rather insignificant issue, abortion, and if he could somehow imbue it with religious significance it might swing some votes his way.

Little did he know that decades later it would have ballooned into a huge, election-turning juggernaut. Personally, I think that "religious" people may gravitated to it because it gave them a binary black-and-white picture which they could claim (at least partially thanks to the influence of the Roman Catholic Church) was an issue that put "God" on their side.


« Last Edit: Fri, 26 July 2024, 13:24:59 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #18 on: Wed, 31 July 2024, 07:46:46 »
So, intrigued by all the political developments, I've been listening to a couple of speeches of both parties recently, and obviously I'm missing a huge amount of political and cultural background here so excuse my ignorance, but please tell me how the choice between a demented, rambling, convicted felon who spews vague nonsense and obviously makes every single word that comes out of his mouth up, and a sharp-witted stateswoman, is even a choice to begin with. I mean, is it really ONLY racism and gun ownership that motivates Republican voters to vote? It's like how reading the bible is the surest way to lose your faith in christianity, surely anyone who listens to Trump speak can't possibly support someone like this unless they're going to back anyone that the party puts forward regardless of how crazy and stupid they are? Please help me out here, I feel like I'm going insane xD .
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #19 on: Wed, 31 July 2024, 08:43:00 »

the choice between a demented, rambling, convicted felon who spews vague nonsense and obviously makes every single word that comes out of his mouth up, and a sharp-witted stateswoman

I feel like I'm going insane


You are OK, a sizable chunk of the US electorate is insane. And remember, in 2020 (a "high turnout" election) about a third of eligible voters voted Democratic, a third Republican, and a third stayed home.

Besides my previous observation on the abortion issue, you should look at the true predecessor of Drumpf - Ronald Reagan. (and note that I was born and raised as a Republican and until then had regularly voted for members of both parties)

When Reagan was running in the Republican primaries in 1980, he (repeatedly) made the horrifying and appalling statement that "the government is the problem, not the solution."  Immediately I went to the local courthouse and changed my party affiliation from "Republican" to "Independent" - where it has remained to this day.

With a Chief Executive who would hold the institution itself (which he took an oath to uphold) in contempt, then its debasement would be almost certain. And we have discussed at length who it is that wants to see the union (union of the states is what I am referring to here) broken.

What may be hard for you to understand is that there has always been a streak of obstreperousness in the US who have trouble distinguishing between freedom and anarchy. An assortment of politicians have tapped into a variety of frustrations and pointed all of them at "tha gub'ment" ....

Most tragic is that the various public institutions are the ONLY entities whose mission is

to form a more perfect union
establish justice
insure domestic tranquility
provide for the common defence
promote the general welfare
and secure the blessings of liberty.

And yet large numbers of potential voters have "convinced themselves" that some other entity will perform those mandates.  I  DON'T  THINK  SO !
« Last Edit: Thu, 01 August 2024, 09:13:58 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #20 on: Wed, 31 July 2024, 09:12:29 »
We make 1 voting decision every few years for president.

We make 1000 decisions every day that require gasoline, and in-between those choices, we buy more plastic junk.   So, it's no wonder WHY all the runners for political office are in the pockets of the guys selling OIL and plastic junk.

CAPITALISM only ends 1 way,  please let's stop pretending democracy can "turn" that around.

Catastrophic Failure is the only thing our society even responds to.

Guys on average go through 2-3 heart attacks before they seriously attempt to change their diet. If at the HUMAN level, that's what we do, What-Of-Society. Taking care to remember, most humans aren't even educated enough, to know what the problem is.

If NE1s want to cast Votes that matter,  Eat VEGGIES.   Veggies for president

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #21 on: Wed, 31 July 2024, 15:51:16 »
"21% of the population is white men aged 40 and older.
69% of Americans support legal abortion
90% want better gun safety legislation
72% believe climate change is real and want to do something
71% approve of labor unions
79% want the rich to pay more taxes
76% want a higher minimum wage
73% want student debt relief
70% approve legalizing marijuana use
74% want more affordable homes"

- Michael Moore 2024-07-30
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline Leslieann

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 05:43:21 »
I mean, is it really ONLY racism and gun ownership that motivates Republican voters to vote? It's like how reading the bible is the surest way to lose your faith in christianity, surely anyone who listens to Trump speak can't possibly support someone like this unless they're going to back anyone that the party puts forward regardless of how crazy and stupid they are? Please help me out here, I feel like I'm going insane xD .

Not entirely racism, it's other'ism, or more specifically me, me, me.
They hate the fact that someone "beneath them" gets the same benefits as they do and would rather burn the entire country down before they let someone less than them get any help, that goes double if it's also denied to them and you can't appease them by saying they get it first because they will just lock everyone out after they get it. It's all about them and only them. It's not just people they don't know, it applies even to their own children. I grew up being told we should want our children to have better lives and yet more than once when I said this to people in the midwest the responses I got was "why should my children have a better life than me?" and "are you saying my life is bad?".

They're greedy, angry and vengeful and Trump spoon feeds it to them, it actually has very little to do with politics other than using those politics as a way to punish those they dislike which is why the rambling and even lack of political objectives doesn't matter.
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Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #23 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 06:28:26 »
"why should my children have a better life than me?" and "are you saying my life is bad?".
Wow. That is incredible. I can't even imagine what kind of parent would think of something like that Oo .

Quote
They're greedy, angry and vengeful and Trump spoon feeds it to them, it actually has very little to do with politics other than using those politics as a way to punish those they dislike which is why the rambling and even lack of political objectives doesn't matter.
Yeah, that's what I thought. In a way it's good that that's the answer ':S .
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #24 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 09:32:02 »

In a way it's good that that's the answer.


In a way it might be, but there are millions of crazies stockpiling military weapons and ammunition to use against other Americans. And if they have convinced themselves that the future doesn't matter (if not to them, then to whom?) then they have little incentive to restrain themselves from creating a scorched earth. Apocalyptic religions are useful to that way of thinking because the "cleansing" is actually a good thing, even ordained and required by the vengeful God.

Some people argue that underlying the anger and hatred comes from a feeling of powerlessness, and if that is true then being able to wreak havoc in a final spasm of destruction would provide a (fleeting) gratification in the exercise of great "power".

If you are asking yourself how could millions of people, in the modern world (!) become so deranged, then believe me - there are other millions of Americans wondering the same thing.

« Last Edit: Fri, 02 August 2024, 08:31:39 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #25 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 09:40:58 »
They (southerners) are not deranged. They simply have the wrong information set. They were poorly educated on purpose to be mined for blue-labor.

But neural networks take time to train,  there is NO TIME to retrain them all.   

If it came down to global restructuring post Major-Climate-Crisis.   There will probably be nothing short of civil war.   Which exacerbates into WW3,  which ends up with many of our reactors melting down,  which goes into Post-Apocalyptic,

This WILL happen if Aliens do not intervene, if Fohat can live another 20-30 years, he could even see it.

Keep in mind our BEST outcome now is a sustainable Fury Road situation.

More than likely, humans and most animals larger than roaches will become extinct for at least 100,000-1,000,000 years.


Resist the notion that this is Sci-Fi,  it's exactly what happened at Chernobyl, it's exactly what happened at Fukushima.

USA has the oldest, worst maintained, most broken down reactor fleet running on extended licenses, running beyond their designed lifespan.

Each USA reactor site has the equivalent of 500,000x Hiroshimas worth of radiation. A bunch of these almost popped on their own during COVID.  You'd agree that covid is not nearly as hard as WAR. 



Humanity is incredibly fragile, and we've already extensively poisoned ourselves with perpetual nuclear waste.

It wouldn't take much to push us over,  and Climate change will do exactly that.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #26 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 09:59:47 »
Kamala, Biden, Trump, they are mere COGS in the system of capitalism.

They represent NOTHING REAL. The titles humans hold are entirely symbolic.   

THE SYSTEM has its own Inviolable rules and Momentums.

The collective shortcomings/ desires of individual humans form the major industries,  Each selfish act compounds.

The momentum is already too strong at this point to alter via government.  Humanity is not equipped to deal with calamity of this magnitude.


The elemental FIRE played with by our technology will continue to scorch most life on the planet for nature to reset and perform the next trial of civilization. There is no humanity in this, humanity is not involved.



We need AGI-God, Aliens, or Alien/God, or Sudden-enlightenment,  or a super lucky thread the needle situation. <chances are slim, but not 0>

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #27 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 10:07:58 »
The scientists tell us,  most humans have to reduce emissions to equivalent of Peasants in India.

Before we even ask the Rich people to do this, who surely will not,   How many middle class and below are willing.

The entire American South is ADDICTED to air conditioning.

TP4 is addicted to air conditioning. He's using it right now, knowing full well, it's an inch closer to destroying the planet.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #28 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 10:11:14 »
Conversion to electric infrastructure will increase net fossil fuel emissions for the next 30 years (at least).

That is to say, 3 Celcius is already locked in, whether we go electric or not. That's something like 3-5 meters of sea level in 30-50 years,  10-30 meters in 100. <most Nuclear Reactors are located near bodies of WATER, = blown reactors>

43% of earth's dry-land is used for animal agriculture, grazing livestock + feed crop.

People wouldn't even eat a vegetable to save their lives. And that's literal, they will have a heart attack or get cancer, and continue to Burger-fy their lives.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #29 on: Thu, 01 August 2024, 10:24:07 »
Without rectifying Land Use, Reforesting that big 43% of dry land,   we can't come remotely close of necessary emission targets.

If the aliens are watching.  They're going to write down on our epitaph,  Mankind, moderately interesting monkeys, killed themselves with what they call Hamburgers.



The presidents are doing NONE of that,  Recommendations for going Plant Based (veggies) was supposed to be in the IPCC's 6th report,  but it was struck down by the major governments.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #30 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 10:10:15 »
The current rhetoric that Kamala is going to be good for the environment and improve climate change.

As if Biden did a damn thing about it. Pushed Ukraine into war, mostly Barack's fault (and past presidents), but Biden continued it, now Israel. 

US now largest oil producer on earth. Our government, be it democrat or republican, has absolutely no Climate-Credibility.

Kamala, what did she do as vice president, Negotiate expansion of Nuclear, which is NOT green, it's nearly as bad as coal when the carbon emission of Concrete/ Mining/ Refinement is accounted for. There is no nuclear power industry, there is ONLY the nuclear weapons industry. Nuclear produces net-negative electricity.

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #31 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 12:14:55 »
Pushed Ukraine into war, mostly Barack's fault (and past presidents), but Biden continued it
"Ukraine was wearing a short NATO skirt. She practically asked for it."
🍉

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #32 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 13:27:59 »
"Ukraine was wearing a short NATO skirt. She practically asked for it."

The Vkraine war is entirely our fault.

Can Mexico be supported by Russia to defeat USA ? <No ??>

Can Ukraine be supported by USA to defeat Russia ? <What's the difference ??>

Since Neither is possible,  the USA pushing Nato onto Ukraine has assured its destruction.

Top USA generals warned of this outcome for the last 20 years.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #33 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 13:38:48 »
The worst part of this..

Is Ukraine will lose anyway, regardless of how much $american Dollar we print for them.

And when they do lose,  WE'RE gonna look like even bigger asshats than we do now.


The only option, would be to send Poland to the battlefield. Ukraine has already run out of army guys at this point drafting 60-70 year olds.

But again, this would only prolong the embarrassing outcome.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #34 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 13:47:46 »
Trump is the world's biggest asshat,  but with regard to Ukraine,  he's been on the right side of foreign policy.

If I were a Ukrainian, I'd pray Trump wins.


The downside is, the environmental destruction will greatly accelerate under Trump, and the whole world will come to an end slightly sooner.

But more Ukranians will survive in the mean time.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #35 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 13:50:52 »
We're pretty convinced at this point that Poland hates Russian enough to commit, some soldiers.

It remains to be seen, How Many for How Long.

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #36 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 18:10:32 »
"Ukraine was wearing a short NATO skirt. She practically asked for it."

The Vkraine war is entirely our fault.

Can Mexico be supported by Russia to defeat USA ? <No ??>

Can Ukraine be supported by USA to defeat Russia ? <What's the difference ??>

Since Neither is possible,  the USA pushing Nato onto Ukraine has assured its destruction.

Top USA generals warned of this outcome for the last 20 years.

This is 100% analogous to a staple stance christians tend to take about the necessity of belief - is TP4 religious by any chance?
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #37 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 18:51:57 »

The Vkraine war is entirely our fault.

Can Mexico be supported by Russia to defeat USA ? <No ??>

Can Ukraine be supported by USA to defeat Russia ? <What's the difference ??>

Since Neither is possible,  the USA pushing Nato onto Ukraine has assured its destruction.

Top USA generals warned of this outcome for the last 20 years.

This is 100% analogous to a staple stance christians tend to take about the necessity of belief - is TP4 religious by any chance?


If it was just any 1 reason we shouldn't have pushed NATO on Vkraine,  sure...   But this comes straight from official military strategists. We should not have had the stance against Russia.

Our "security" in terms of foreign policy consisted of primarily Missile bases closer and closer to Russia.

Our "security" therefore comes at the cost of some one else's "Insecurity."

THEREFORE,  Ukraine is almost entirely our fault.  We've treated Ukraine like a playing card, and well, now they're dead.

This might just be a case of saber rattling on part of Our-Countries,  but real Vkrainians are dying.

Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #38 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 19:19:57 »

treated Ukraine like a playing card


I still subscribe to the notion that Ukraine looked at Russia and looked at Europe and made a decision as to who they wanted to play ball with.
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #39 on: Sat, 03 August 2024, 19:25:10 »

treated Ukraine like a playing card


I still subscribe to the notion that Ukraine looked at Russia and looked at Europe and made a decision as to who they wanted to play ball with.


No they did not.  Ukraine's Eastern half wants absolutely nothing to do with Nato.

In any case, we should not have meddled.

When we put missile bases closer to russia than missiles in Cuba would've been during the cuban missile crisis. Once you discard the politics, History will clearly show,  the Ukrainians are dead because of the USA.

And it's really only our Western media circus which does not indicate as such, Every other nation already believes that is the case, even the ones IN Nato. They're just not as upfront about it, because  we all still agree Putin is kind of a scary guy,  but USA is way scarier.


If you had to rank tyrants, USA is at the very top by a significant margin. No other country in history has committed the amount of violence we have.


For example we are directly sponsoring the Israel lead genocide in Palestine.

We are powerful enough, for the moment, such that no one dares oppose, but you forget, a couple of guys with some box cutters took down the WTC. 

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #40 on: Sun, 04 August 2024, 07:00:56 »

The Vkraine war is entirely our fault.

Can Mexico be supported by Russia to defeat USA ? <No ??>

Can Ukraine be supported by USA to defeat Russia ? <What's the difference ??>

Since Neither is possible,  the USA pushing Nato onto Ukraine has assured its destruction.

Top USA generals warned of this outcome for the last 20 years.

This is 100% analogous to a staple stance christians tend to take about the necessity of belief - is TP4 religious by any chance?


If it was just any 1 reason we shouldn't have pushed NATO on Vkraine,  sure...   But this comes straight from official military strategists. We should not have had the stance against Russia.

Our "security" in terms of foreign policy consisted of primarily Missile bases closer and closer to Russia.

Our "security" therefore comes at the cost of some one else's "Insecurity."

THEREFORE,  Ukraine is almost entirely our fault.  We've treated Ukraine like a playing card, and well, now they're dead.

This might just be a case of saber rattling on part of Our-Countries,  but real Vkrainians are dying.

No, I get your point, even if I disagree with it. My question was whether you were religious (if you don't want to answer, that's OK of course), and whether you're aware of this analogy.


treated Ukraine like a playing card


I still subscribe to the notion that Ukraine looked at Russia and looked at Europe and made a decision as to who they wanted to play ball with.


No they did not.  Ukraine's Eastern half wants absolutely nothing to do with Nato.

Ask old Polish people who were worse when they came into Poland during the second world war; the Germans, or the Russians. They'll say the Russians were 10x worse, every time. I think you greatly underestimate how badly the Russians treated everyone under their yoke.  They just don't get as much bad press, because they won. To utterly dismiss the wishes of a sovereign nation of whom to align themselves with just because you feel it's a tyrant's prerogative to be able to just attack any country he wants without retaliation is crazy.

Sure, the US is not perfect. But they still defend the free world, and I'm glad it's on my side (well, for another 90 days at least).
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #41 on: Sun, 04 August 2024, 07:27:41 »
Tp4 is agnostic. There is an extremely high probability of a god, but as prescribed by organized religion, hard pass.



As for the "US", It's not about being perfect.  Every large human society exerts some form of violence to get what they want, be it technological, financial, or the Palestinian genocide which we happily sponsor.

Europe led by Macron and others were ready to do peace talks a year and a half ago,  Struck down by US/GBr.

Again. The people in charge has invested enormous "prestige" in this dispute, and they care more about that, than the LIVES of Ukrainians.   Ukrainians are dying, so that the US can save face.

MAYBE, if it was remotely possible that Ukraine could succeed, US meddling would be morally justifiable.  But there was NEVER any chance,  THEREFORE,  Our involvement is fundamentally unconscionable, because we've ensured their destruction.

This is not a new-development. Top US military and political leaders have aired for the last 20 years that Nato expansion would cause this exact outcome.



We can not defeat Russia even with the full force of the allied nations, it's not possible given the existence of nuclear weapons.  The only outcome if that came to contest is we both die.

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #42 on: Sun, 04 August 2024, 07:39:33 »
At this point,  the only possible route off the ladder,  is Trump negotiates a little speck of Ukraine, and we continue to call it that.  But Russia will pretty much entirely dictate the terms and likely not settle for anything less than 90% given their investment in the war already..

Not even to raise the problem of heavy Uranium contamination now that DU ammo has gone live. They're gonna have chernobyl babies for the next few decades, just like Iraq after the US invasion.

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #43 on: Sun, 04 August 2024, 08:53:22 »
Tp4 is agnostic. There is an extremely high probability of a god, but as prescribed by organized religion, hard pass.
That sounds like textbook deism to me (not the same as theism), not agnosticism. But anyway.

What I strongly dispute here is the notion that somehow the US is responsible for the Ukrainians fighting this war, while it's obvious that they are doing it out of their own accord, NATO is just making it possible for them to do so. If they wanted peace, they could've had it ages ago, they just don't want to yield to this tyrant again.



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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #44 on: Tue, 06 August 2024, 14:28:13 »
“In many ways, Tim Walz is the person JD Vance pretends to be. He’s an authentic, decent and normal guy.”

- Mark Penn  2024-08-06

"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 07 August 2024, 06:32:58 »
Just watched some stuff about Walz, the contrast with that creep of a JD Vance is astounding.

I get it, Trump is gonna win anyway, because xenophobia is a lot stronger than reason as we've learned over the last few years (and not just in America), but honestly I can't wrap my head around this whole situation, how this can even be a contest.
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 07 August 2024, 08:08:29 »

Trump is gonna win anyway, because xenophobia is a lot stronger than reason


I feel certain that Walz will peel off almost any MAGAs who will actually listen to him - he is the person who they need in leadership even if they haven't recognized it yet.

And the ideal counterpoint to Harris to placate the racists and xenophobes.

Unfortunately there are several states now with secretaries of state and attorneys general who intend to reject the actual ballot results if they don't like them.
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 07 August 2024, 09:14:03 »
You can have the highest ideals in the highest office.  But if the critical momentums of the system does not change, the "grass roots" of the human-imperialist-thought-processes,   then Business will continue as usual.

This happenstance is consistent throughout every single empire/ party/ -isms in large governance.

No matter HOW, we "Tweak" capitalism, it produces the same outcome, because it is a system of humans with untempered intellects.  As it stands, it only responds to catastrophe,  it's disappointing that this is the last one, and we're already blowing it.

Offline chyros

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #48 on: Wed, 07 August 2024, 09:30:04 »

Trump is gonna win anyway, because xenophobia is a lot stronger than reason


I feel certain that Walz will peel off almost any MAGAs who will actually listen to him - he is the person who they need in leadership even if they haven't recognized it yet.

And the ideal counterpoint to Harris to placate the racists and xenophobes.
Can you elaborate on this a bit? Why is he so suitable for them?
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Offline fohat.digs

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Re: Out with the Old Joe, In with the New Kamala
« Reply #49 on: Wed, 07 August 2024, 09:49:42 »

No matter how we tweak capitalism


Capitalism can work pretty well as long as the "guardrails" of democracy and regulation are in place and functioning.

The Radical Right attacked and usurped the government of the US beginning with Reagan and stripped off the guardrails in earnest.
« Last Edit: Wed, 07 August 2024, 10:02:25 by fohat.digs »
"The post-mortem blame game has already started, here as well as elsewhere: Harris did this, or didn’t do that, or Biden should have, shouldn’t have, whatever. Bull****.
This wasn’t Harris’s fault. She ran a campaign based on reality, while Trump, and the GOP in general, did a con job on America. And America bought it, because too many of us couldn’t face reality and didn’t want to remember history.
The GOP victory was a triumph of illusion."
- Dan K 2024-11-06