Americans, if you could live in any country where would you want to live?

[noisyturtle]

I've been looking into NZ visas lately. Japan looks very nice as well and much more affordable than NZ.
Norway, Finland, and Sweden have great living standards but are just too cold for my tastes.

[TomahawkLabs]

I've been looking into NZ visas lately. Japan looks very nice as well and much more affordable than NZ.
Norway, Finland, and Sweden have great living standards but are just too cold for my tastes.

As an American who hasn't really looked Australia or NZ.

[YALE70]

Haven't seriously looked either. Seconded on Japan. Hokkaido specifically. I'd probably also consider Canada (BC), Ireland, or Scandinavia. I like it cold.

Also, Croatia seems very nice in parts? Don't know what living there would actually be like though.

[tp4tissue]

Japan's got radiation blooms every spring, it's heavily contaminated as is. Terrible idea, unless you're going there to retire.

Fuku5hima is an ongoing emitter, constantly adding more poison to the land. The ocean backwash has actually returned early than expected, but outside of that, filtration efforts have failed, refrigeration ground water control operating at only very limited success.

We're possibly 200 years out before the technology is even invented to handle-it.


Anywhere North will be the last viable places to live. When climate change hit us, the world will largely fracture into gangs/ warlordism. Assuming by some miracle, radiation is kept in check (unlikely), then it'll be like Haiti. 

Even now, the United States are actually fiefdoms.


Ultimately, NO WHERE is Safe.   We are facing an existential crisis, yet the average person is merely imagining it's going to be like a bad-vacation.


If you're looking for a realistic idea of how MOST of the world is going to be,  look up the Slums of India.  That's going to be best case for the majority of the population.

When the radiation really gets out of control, generations born today will likely be living to their 30s maximum.   Then within 3-5 years, almost all large surface life will perish. The failure cascade will be swift.  We're at the TAIL END of the anthropocene extinction event. As in, it's already been happening for the last 10,000 years.



Miracles, Super Intelligence AI Autocracy.   Slim chance, a fantasy at this point.  For us to hit singularity, we'd need to go 100% veggie first, just to have enough time to do it. 

[noisyturtle]

Well, Ascension Island it is then!

[tp4tissue]

As an American who hasn't really looked Australia or NZ.

In the event of collapse, The Safest Place to be will be CHINA.

Brand new infrastructure, rail connected.

Massive population, manpower to handle collapse.

Highly educated, Ideal social order/ class system.

Docile, indoctrinated to OBEY-the-State, very important, not a vacation, this is collapse..

Remember,  when it hits the fan,  you need BODIES with Hands to Lift Heavy things, and turn screw drivers.

America can not by its very nature handle collapse,  Social order rapidly decays as the population is #1 Uneducated, #2 Unruly, #3 Culturally Sociopathic (Individualism).

Americans all own guns, many will become Marauders.

Crumbling infrastructure, heavily degraded rail system, low population density, no heavy forge, BUYS most manufactured goods with MONEY,  Money that will become worthless during a collapse.

Living space organized around extremely inefficient personal gasoline vehicles.

You either have the muscles to do it yourself or die, because no one will sell you anything, no one can.

[tp4tissue]

The CEOs have these stupid fantasies like, Buying up Hawaii/ New Zealand.

Hrrm, ok, so you're going to be a tech billionaire, which makes you a natural enemy of collapse society, as they view you as the cause, move to a foreign place during collapse when the billionaire status is worthless as facebook doesn't exist anymore.

So, this "group" is going to spend 100% of its time defending the billionaire's mansion?  Tech billionaire just assumes that they know how to run violent militia, jungle guerilla group ?

[noisyturtle]

Tech billionaire just assumes that they know how to run violent militia, jungle guerilla group ?

Are you joking? Throwing infinite money at your problems is very much the easiest and most brainless solution. Controlling a for-hire militia is one of the simplest things for someone with mass disposable income to do. If they turn on you, they get no more money. Even the stupidest puppets are not that stupid. Not even wild animals are that dumb.

[tp4tissue]

Money is for a working society.

It's not a thing in collapse.  It's extremely difficult to run a militia.

[noisyturtle]

Money is for a working society.

It's not a thing in collapse.  It's extremely difficult to run a militia.

At the risk of falling into a tp pit and derailing the entire thread: Take the example of a tiger in captivity. There are thousands of tigers in captivity that could easily tear your face off in an instant, and yet we only hear about this happening perhaps once every few years. Meanwhile, wild tigers kill humans regularly, there is a monthly tally for it. Why do you think that is? A tiger has no concept of money or material wealth. What they do understand is protection, a roof over their head, and a reliable source of food with no competition. That is all any struggling human wants as well. There is no reason for them to turn on their source of comfort so long as they are treated well, unless it is a coup to swap out the figurehead.

[fohat.digs]

 guns, many will become Marauders.

This worried me a lot, even without the complete collapse of society.

[tp4tissue]

 guns, many will become Marauders.

This worried me a lot, even without the complete collapse of society.

Tp4 tells every one not to worry, because there's nothing to worry about.

Worry is the perception that someone else will GET AHEAD.

When it comes to collapse, no one will get ahead as no one will survive.

So, Fohat.dig can relax.

[iri]

Also, Croatia seems very nice in parts?

It isn't cold.

[chyros]

As an American who hasn't really looked Australia or NZ.

In the event of collapse, The Safest Place to be will be CHINA.

China is one of the closest countries in the world to achieving wet bulb temperature, combined with such a massive population I suspect it'll be scrambling for lebensraum when the **** hits the fan.

[tp4tissue]

As an American who hasn't really looked Australia or NZ.

In the event of collapse, The Safest Place to be will be CHINA.

China is one of the closest countries in the world to achieving wet bulb temperature, combined with such a massive population I suspect it'll be scrambling for lebensraum when the **** hits the fan.

You're reading the Tabloids Chyros-kun.

The Red Scare.

Not to say China won't face climate problems, but wet bulb is the least of it.

[chyros]

As an American who hasn't really looked Australia or NZ.

In the event of collapse, The Safest Place to be will be CHINA.

China is one of the closest countries in the world to achieving wet bulb temperature, combined with such a massive population I suspect it'll be scrambling for lebensraum when the **** hits the fan.

You're reading the Tabloids Chyros-kun.

The Red Scare.

Not to say China won't face climate problems, but wet bulb is the least of it.

Honestly I suspect it'll be reds fighting reds when it happens .

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

[fohat.digs]

Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore.
 

A few things worry me about that. They are getting above 100F/38C  above the Arctic Circle  in the summers now, plus the methane being released from the melting permafrost ....

It was bad enough that they had boreal forest fires there, but then the ground itself was burning, too, thanks to that methane. Weird and frightening, and it doesn't seem to be as much of a "thing" in Canada and Alaska.

[tp4tissue]

It's much worse than that.  Greenland alone is 7 meters of sea level rise.   Some studies already says we're BEYOND tipping point on greenland.

WE ARE NOT READY,  that alone is going to be CATASTROPHIC.  Most of our Nv(lear is near oceans/ bodies of water.  It costs an existential amount of $MONEY, to manage the useless piles of Toxic Waste.

And m1cr0soft and AI bros want to build more.

[iri]

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

Yeah, especially when in goes over 30 degrees in summer lol. Does literally no one in the Western world get taught geography?

[tp4tissue]

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

Yeah, especially when in goes over 30 degrees in summer lol. Does literally no one in the Western world get taught geography?

Interim Siberia will likely die out entirely during the initial Collapse Transition period.

That place is not maintainable without ample fuel and food supply. Local ecology during initial run down wouldn't supply the food or raw materials necessary for their current social structure.   They would either have to move or die when supply chains break down.

[chyros]

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

Yeah, especially when in goes over 30 degrees in summer lol. Does literally no one in the Western world get taught geography?

Funny, that's not what this says: https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/siberia

<insert similarly unnecessary, snide and pointlessly rude counter-remark>

[fohat.digs]

insert .... counter-remark

"On 20 June 2020 Verkhoyansk recorded a temperature of +38.0 °C (100.4 °F), yielding a temperature range of 105.8 °C (190.4 °F) based on reliable records, making it the largest temperature range in the world."

[noisyturtle]

insert .... counter-remark

"On 20 June 2020 Verkhoyansk recorded a temperature of +38.0 °C (100.4 °F), yielding a temperature range of 105.8 °C (190.4 °F) based on reliable records, making it the largest temperature range in the world."

The hottest temp ever recorded was in Death Valley around 135° F

...imaging what 190° would even entail

[tp4tissue]

Tp4 was just in death valley last summer. Experienced 115-121.

Chocolate and chapstick melted in your pocket.  Not survivable.  In regions of Arizona, people stay in doors with AC full blast for 3 months of the year.   

Vegas was 100 over night.  You'd walk out of the casino at 2am, and it was blisteringly hot.

Homeless people hung out around Costco asking for water. 

[iri]

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

Yeah, especially when in goes over 30 degrees in summer lol. Does literally no one in the Western world get taught geography?

Funny, that's not what this says: https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/siberia

"while it goes up to 20 °C (68 °F) in the southernmost areas. "

ROFLMAO where did you excavate this site?

Here's a randomly selected South Siberian city:



Also, you can be rude all you want, it's not that you're an example of eloquence anyway =)

[fohat.digs]

imaging what 190° would even entail

That is the range, the spread between coldest winter low and hottest summer high.

And, by the way, 190C would be 375F, so, yeah.

Personally, I have been outside over 100F/38C but not by very much. And I have been around 35 degrees below zero which is about where the scales briefly agree on something.
 

[chyros]

If you're overheating, nearby Siberia doesn't seem so bad anymore, I think.

Yeah, especially when in goes over 30 degrees in summer lol. Does literally no one in the Western world get taught geography?

Funny, that's not what this says: https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/siberia

"while it goes up to 20 °C (68 °F) in the southernmost areas. "

ROFLMAO where did you excavate this site?

Here's a randomly selected South Siberian city:

(Attachment Link)

Also, you can be rude all you want, it's not that you're an example of eloquence anyway =)

Yes, because by "evacuate from the heat to Siberia" I obviously meant "go to the hot parts". Dumbass.

[iri]

Siberia is quite large, and for the most part, has hot summers, so that's incorrect too. Are you sure I'm the dumbass here? lol

[fohat.digs]

for the most part, has hot summers

I am constantly surprised about that kind of thing. I used to live in the Atlanta, Georgia area {~34N), and watching weather maps that often showed places like Fargo, North Dakota (~47N) with higher summer temperatures.

 

[iri]

Fargo is right in the middle of a continent, far from the moderating effect of the oceans. It's also not that high above the sea level. It has an extreme continental climate (just as Eastern Siberia). The giant landmass it's in gets heated up in summer, and there is nothing to cool it off unless there's a sudden surge of Arctic air (or a very odd Alberta Clipper). Eastern Siberia experiences exactly the same thing, which is exacerbated by the fact that it's very far from the Atlantic, and the Pacific influence is greatly reduced because of the mountains in the Russian Far East.

[tp4tissue]

[noisyturtle]

I've been boning up on population, resources, quality of living, ease of adjustment for expats, property purchasing, and food. The more I research, the more I'm thinking, "Finland seems like a very nice place to spend my life." They seem to have it all there.

NZ is extremely expensive, and while Japan is quite affordable and great for small business owners, the language barrier and difficulty of procuring a visa are much more difficult.

Denmark is also a very attractive option, great food, tons of culture, friendly people.

I got to ask myself, who has the lowest access to high quality bagels 

[tp4tissue]

This what we do NT, we go to Thailand or Myanmar or Philippines, start a GoGo Bar. Then we funnel in western secs tourists toward the casinos. And when they lose all their money, the Casino confiscates their visas and kidnaps/sell them to the Scam City where they become slaves to the internet scam corporation for the next 15-20 years.

Hang on, this is all legal?

Faith in humanity destroyed.

[noisyturtle]

I just want a peaceful life running an artisanal bagel cafe and whiskey bar in a country desperate for good bagels, that provides a high quality of life to those who work to positively contribute to society.

A crazy dream, I know.

[tp4tissue]

A gogo bar is the same thing, with hookers and dice.

[iri]

The more I research, the more I'm thinking, "Finland seems like a very nice place to spend my life."

Finland is cold and extremely boring. High CoL, high taxes. And how the **** do you think you'll get employed there when you can't find a decent job in a country that speaks your native language and not a non-Indoeuropean one with 15 cases?

Denmark is also a very attractive option, great food

**** me

friendly people.

Danes are friendly? **** me sideways.

[TomahawkLabs]

for the most part, has hot summers

I am constantly surprised about that kind of thing. I used to live in the Atlanta, Georgia area {~34N), and watching weather maps that often showed places like Fargo, North Dakota (~47N) with higher summer temperatures.

I used to live in Fargo. It sucks. We would get a week of -20f to -0 temps in the winter (never getting above 0f), not including wind chill and then in the summer we can see high 90s into the 100s with humidity.

[Findecanor]

The more I research, the more I'm thinking, "Finland seems like a very nice place to spend my life."

Finland is cold and extremely boring. High CoL, high taxes. And how the **** do you think you'll get employed there when you can't find a decent job in a country that speaks your native language and not a non-Indoeuropean one with 15 cases?

I believe practically everyone in Finland speaks English though, like they do here in Sweden.
As long as you're in a line of work where English is accepted, you'll do fine.
Here in Sweden, in IT, English is just as common as Swedish, and I've worked with people with many nationalities using English as our shared language for work.

Finnish could be difficult to learn though. I'll give you that.
Most closely related to Estonian, Sapmi, Hungarian and some indigenous languages in Siberia that are probably extinct now.

[iri]

I used to live in Fargo. It sucks. We would get a week of -20f to -0 temps in the winter (never getting above 0f), not including wind chill and then in the summer we can see high 90s into the 100s with humidity.

As someone who spent most of his life in this temperature range (a little colder though), can confirm, it sucks.

[Sniping]

to answer OP I think somewhere in asia would be amazing. Japan sounds nice but I think having to integrate yourself into their work culture honestly probably makes it pretty dreadful, knowing noisyturtle personality I feel like you'd hate it lol. I recently visited Saigon for the first time and it was great there. Lots of people just chilling on the street during the work week and looks like a lot of folks aren't working too hard. I think developed cities in Asia are great because of low cost of living (get good quality food and good housing on the low), taxi around the city for $1-$3 at a time, and have access to other Asian countries to visit for travel with low flight cost and short flight times. I'm a big tropical fruit fan and there's lots of areas around Asia that fits that need for me, Saigon was definitely one of them. both trendy and traditional food options for great prices, lots and lots of cheap flights around Asia via their budget airline equivalent to Frontier.

One requirement I have is not living in a place with high air pollution, so that crosses off a lot of major Asian cities. It generally lowers your health and quality of life by a fair amount, in my opinion. I'm actually not that bothered by moderately hot weather, I think the sweat is good for you in a way, and there's very few climates as far as I know that have mild temps year round, so it's too restrictive of a requirement to me. 

[tp4tissue]

One requirement I have is not living in a place with high air pollution, so that crosses off a lot of major Asian cities. It generally lowers your health and quality of life by a fair amount, in my opinion.

Not just any air pollution , Japan Tokyo area is basically radioactive.  70% of fvkvshima contamination is mountain and forest, uncleanable.

They've tested random gutters/ roofs and city trees in front of buildings in the Tokyo city, sporadically, lvls are high enough to qualify as Nv(lear waste.

All the spraying and white suits they did was just for show. It does next to nothing given TIME.  When the wind blows and rain falls, all that contamination washes back into the population center.

And it's only going to get worse as Japanese society continues to fracture and depopulate.

We don't even have the technology to get near the blown core to clean it up. 


Most americans live within 100-300 miles of a nvke.  Which means we all face existential risk all the time.

[Leslieann]

I am constantly surprised about that kind of thing. I used to live in the Atlanta, Georgia area {~34N), and watching weather maps that often showed places like Fargo, North Dakota (~47N) with higher summer temperatures.

I used to live in Fargo. It sucks. We would get a week of -20f to -0 temps in the winter (never getting above 0f), not including wind chill and then in the summer we can see high 90s into the 100s with humidity.

This describes much of the midwest/middle of the country.
It's why I moved back to the southwest, say what you want about the heat at least it's dry and not so gloomy all the time.

[tp4tissue]

This describes much of the midwest/middle of the country.
It's why I moved back to the southwest, say what you want about the heat at least it's dry and not so gloomy all the time.

They say dry heat isn't bad, but without AC, its wayy worse.

[TomahawkLabs]

I am constantly surprised about that kind of thing. I used to live in the Atlanta, Georgia area {~34N), and watching weather maps that often showed places like Fargo, North Dakota (~47N) with higher summer temperatures.

I used to live in Fargo. It sucks. We would get a week of -20f to -0 temps in the winter (never getting above 0f), not including wind chill and then in the summer we can see high 90s into the 100s with humidity.

This describes much of the midwest/middle of the country.
It's why I moved back to the southwest, say what you want about the heat at least it's dry and not so gloomy all the time.

I have another 8-10 years in the midwest before I move to greener pastures. Between wanting my children to grow up in a nice area and go to a well funded school and the fact I cannot afford to move laterally. If I was to move today, I would have to take a massive step back in QoL regarding housing. Once I am an empty nester I plan on moving somewhere more mild to grow old in.

[iri]

The more I research, the more I'm thinking, "Finland seems like a very nice place to spend my life."

Finland is cold and extremely boring. High CoL, high taxes. And how the **** do you think you'll get employed there when you can't find a decent job in a country that speaks your native language and not a non-Indoeuropean one with 15 cases?

I believe practically everyone in Finland speaks English though, like they do here in Sweden.
As long as you're in a line of work where English is accepted, you'll do fine.
Here in Sweden, in IT, English is just as common as Swedish, and I've worked with people with many nationalities using English as our shared language for work.

My Linkedin feed has a daily digest on the pain that immigrants to Finland feel because speaking Finnish is required by almost every employer.

Also, not everyone in Finland speaks English (surprisingly, even in Helsinki). Once we rented a cottage in South Finland and had to communicate with the owners using gestures (the online booking process was managed by their son who lived in the capital and spoke English).

[Leslieann]

This describes much of the midwest/middle of the country.
It's why I moved back to the southwest, say what you want about the heat at least it's dry and not so gloomy all the time.

They say dry heat isn't bad, but without AC, its wayy worse.

In high humidity your sweat does nothing except make you wet. In a dry heat the sweat actually does what it should and cools you by evaporating.

Maybe it depends on the person but I've lived in in both extremes and for me, wet heat is waaaay worse without AC.

[noisyturtle]

Finland was just rated 'Happiest country on Earth' in terms of quality of life. So my Spidey-senses can't be that off...

US falling to 24. I see that being closer to 30 by the end of this year.

[fohat.digs]

US falling to 24.

Ouch, I remembered us being in the mid-teens in recent years.

[TomahawkLabs]

America is a weird place in that, if you have some moderate level of wealth, it can be a very good place to live. But if you are on the poorer side of things, it gets exponentially harder. Being born at the right time, in the right place, to the right parents is the key to having a good time or a bad time in America.

It also depends on how you define happy and what joy you can find in life. Some can find joy a bit easier and often than others.

[tp4tissue]

In high humidity your sweat does nothing except make you wet. In a dry heat the sweat actually does what it should and cools you by evaporating.

Maybe it depends on the person but I've lived in in both extremes and for me, wet heat is waaaay worse without AC.

Dry is so bad for skin though, have you noticed, in wet climates, women look alot more youthful.

Cali, Nevada, Arizona,  it doesn't matter how much lotion you use, the moisture just boils away from your skin.  The women there look wrinkly + pruny, easily 10 years older.

Of course, the trade off is the Roach infestation ala/Florida.

No perfect place to live.