The 2025 Republican Wealth Bill is Much Worse Than 2017

[fohat.digs]

The Great Republican Tax Scam of 2017 was just the warm-up act to this new abomination that we are facing.

This time, the working class, and its sub-order, the much-harder-working non-citizen class, will fare far worse than they did last time. And that is before you even start to factor in rampant inflation resulting from a variety of sources, not least the exponential increase of "private equity" taking over everything in sight, rapidly rising prices from mindless tariff wars and corporate greed, and last but not least, degradation of our environment in every category of measurement - which always impacts the lower economic classes far more than the wealthy.

Naturally, toilet-paper-for-tissue will likely chime in with some variation of the tired stale "same as it ever was" response, but anyone facing the imminent loss of job and/or health insurance and/or housing and/or standard of living and/or personal liberty can hardly fail to recognize that these are new and uncharted waters. And the final bulwark of the rule of law in our nation, the Supreme Court, has proven itself to now be as corrupt as the other "co-equal" branches of the Federal government.

[fohat.digs]

"“THIS GROWTH has already begun at levels never seen before. Trillions of Dollars are now being invested into the USA, more than ever before. Likewise, hundreds of Billions of Dollars in Tariffs are filling up the coffers of Treasury. The Tariff money has already arrived and is setting new records! We are growing our way out of the Sleepy Joe Biden MESS that he and the Democrats left us, and it is happening much faster than anyone thought possible. Our Country will make a fortune this year, more than any of our competitors, but only if the Big, Beautiful Bill is PASSED! As they say, Trump’s been right about everything, and this is the easiest of them all to predict. Republicans, don’t let the Radical Left Democrats push you around. We’ve got all the cards, and we are going to use them. Last year America was a “DEAD” Nation, with no hope for the future, and now it’s the “HOTTEST NATION IN THE WORLD!” MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!”

- DJ Trump 2025-07-01

[tp4tissue]

The problem isn't the bill.

If you think about it, "muri kha" has NEVER EVER been for the people.

If the idea is to bring back manufacturing, or near shoring, it will prop up the average living standards of the working class.

The problem is, that takes longer than 4 years.  If dvm p isn't emperor, it simply can't happen.


People associate fascism with the Nazis, and it's absolutely bad.  Well TECHNICALLLLLLY, fascism, is, PRIVATE CAPITAL -> PUBLIC/State profit Benefit.  Whereas, the form of capitalism we actually have today is,  PUBLIC Capital -> Private profit Benefits.

What the Nazis did wasn't pure fascism either, it was really just Capitalism.



But since it is unlikely 'Murik  ha can truly withstand the pressure of autocracy,  All of this is just virtue signaling and a waste of time.

[fohat.digs]

Here is a small commentary:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/07/02/senate-trump-tax-bill-surprises-legislation/84436000007/

Included is this typical morsel:

"Cheaper gun silencers

Republicans added a provision to the bill that would eliminate a nearly-century-old tax, now $200, for purchasing or making silencers, short-barreled rifles and shotguns, and other weapons. They also removed a requirement for gun owners to register their silencers."

[fohat.digs]

Even better, Representative Jamie Raskin (D-Maryland) read aloud his Preamble to the proposed Republican bill:

"Mr. Speaker, I found a Preamble to this Big Ugly Bill.
We the billionaires, and our King, in order to deform and sicken our Union, establish injustice, ensure domestic servility, weaken our peoples defenses, undermine our general welfare, and reserve to ourselves and our posterity staggering debt servitude for eternity, do hereby instruct the Republicans in Congress to strip 17 million people of their healthcare, increase co-pays, premiums and deductibles for everyone else, cut 42 million people off of nutritional assistance, increase the national debt by 4 trillion dollars, trash renewable energy systems, increase our electric bills for the carbon kings, all to weaken and destroy the Constitution of the people of these United States of America. Please include this Preamble in the legislative record. I yield back."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=_jzfjtVkX9o

[fohat.digs]

It Is Done.

All that is left now is the  FAFO  fallout.

[tp4tissue]

What we'll have now is kleptocracy like rvss.

It was already mostly that, but now it will be slightly worse, because EVEN-dumber people are in control.

[noisyturtle]

What is really a shame is the heavy damage from this will not kick in for a couple years, and by that time the Dems will have surely taken back the House with all this corruption and racism going on, so they will get the blame from the stupids for millions of Americans getting their healthcare axed. Sick and disgusting game, playing with people's lives. They truly do not give a **** about poor and middle class, and any non-white male.

Miller needs to go back to the smeghole he crawled out of. He needs to straight up not exist anymore.

[tp4tissue]

NT needs to stop reading mainstream media. That is not what's happening AT ALL.

[Rob27shred]

It Is Done.

All that is left now is the  FAFO  fallout.

Yep, this one is gonna be nasty too. Although it falls in line with what the wealthy want. They could literally care less if the fallout of them "protecting" their wealth literally destroys the earth itself, they got doomsday bunkers they have to figure out a way to use anyways...

[tp4tissue]

Doomsday bunkers don't work.

The problem is the "Wealthy" aren't much smart than the average.  They're only slightly smarter, + the luck in their corner.



Even with that luck, our species cognition is 5-10 years. No one has a 100 year plan, and yet all the problems humanity faces require 100-1000 year solutions.

It takes 10,000 years to reverse 4m of sea level rise, AT, PRE-Industrial Co2 levels.


That is to say, it's pretty much over.

[Rob27shred]

Doomsday bunkers don't work.

The problem is the "Wealthy" aren't much smart than the average.  They're only slightly smarter, + the luck in their corner.



Even with that luck, our species cognition is 5-10 years. No one has a 100 year plan, and yet all the problems humanity faces require 100-1000 year solutions.

It takes 10,000 years to reverse 4m of sea level rise, AT, PRE-Industrial Co2 levels.


That is to say, it's pretty much over.

Wasn't arguing that they'll work or are the play to save themselves, just saying what the uber wealthy are probably thinking.

[Rob27shred]

Whoops my pressed the wrong thing on my phone & accidently quoted myself...

[tp4tissue]

They're not thinking. But thinking isn't the problem.

They have a set of requirements as figureheads of "a system" of encumbrance.

The system "rewards" growth,  is "blind" to energy costs, and completely disregard "ecological damage", which by definition is uncounted and therefore invisible to "the economy".


There is only 1 outcome to this system, As is.

A living tree
A living whale
Clean Air

None of these things are priced for.  So we live now at the tail end of a dead planet, a dead ocean, and unbreathable pollution.

[Rob27shred]

They're not thinking. But thinking isn't the problem.

They have a set of requirements as figureheads of "a system" of encumbrance.

The system "rewards" growth,  is "blind" to energy costs, and completely disregard "ecological damage", which by definition is uncounted and therefore invisible to "the economy".


There is only 1 outcome to this system, As is.

A living tree
A living whale
Clean Air

None of these things are priced for.  So we live now at the tail end of a dead planet, a dead ocean, and unbreathable pollution.

You really got a flair for the dramatic you know that TP... Honestly you are dead wrong here, sure we're definitely not doing our due diligence as humans to protect Earth but think about all the planet & life has survived before we were even close to evolving. If they can survive massive meteoroid impacts, flood basalts, the complete chemical remake of the atmosphere, etc. I think it'll do just fine with whatever we can throw at it. The planet & life itself will be around long after we've wiped ourselves out. I am not condoning the damage we have done to the planet & it's ecosystems that are currently around, but I am pointing out the fact that you are grossly overstating what the fall out of humans on this planet will be. At this point we really don't know how much or how little of climate change is due to our activities, we just know we're contributing to the changes we are seeing. Let's not forget even right now we're still technically at the end of the last ice age & Earth has been historically way hotter than it is right now, that the oxygen we breathe was an extinction level event for most life on the planet when it was made by the first life that used photosynthesis, etc. I honestly doubt we could do enough damage before wiping ourselves out to effect the planet & life on it for more than a few hundred years.

[tp4tissue]

Crossing ecological boundaries isn't Instant-Death.

It's a growing agony when the system we're used to falls apart.

Energy prices will be between 6-10x what it is now.  The entirety of the current accounting system which counts land assets will fail.

Most of us will live like peasants. The middle class will be desolved.

Air conditioners will exist, but the vaste majority will not be able to afford running them.

This is not dramatic, this is within a 30 year projection.  The EROI of oil which underpins modern society has reduced rapidly. 2.5x the wells, but our production rate is still falling.



We are very near the end.

[fohat.digs]

the system we're used to falls apart.

This is the crux of the matter.

A meter of sea level rise will severely disrupt modern civilization as we know it. A few degrees of warming will turn vast swaths of farm land into desert.

Our planet will have a very difficult task supporting 8 billion people.

[Rob27shred]

Crossing ecological boundaries isn't Instant-Death.

It's a growing agony when the system we're used to falls apart.

Energy prices will be between 6-10x what it is now.  The entirety of the current accounting system which counts land assets will fail.

Most of us will live like peasants. The middle class will be desolved.

Air conditioners will exist, but the vaste majority will not be able to afford running them.

This is not dramatic, this is within a 30 year projection.  The EROI of oil which underpins modern society has reduced rapidly. 2.5x the wells, but our production rate is still falling.



We are very near the end.

That's my point exactly WE are at risk, not the planet or life itself.

[Leslieann]

The problem is the "Wealthy" aren't much smart than the average.  They're only slightly smarter, + the luck in their corner.

Not any smarter at all just better educated. It's just easier to seem smart when you have money, especially in the U.S..

[tp4tissue]

The problem is the "Wealthy" aren't much smart than the average.  They're only slightly smarter, + the luck in their corner.

Not any smarter at all just better educated. It's just easier to seem smart when you have money, especially in the U.S..

General intelligence is highly hereditary, which is why it's one of the traits women are extremely sensitive to in selection.

We are NOT born all the same. The distribution is also very different between different races/ geographical regions.

That is not to say, a less intelligent person is less important.

Suppose you need a soldier,  A highly intelligent/empathetic person would make a crap soldier because he would hesitate to kill someone.

Whereas, a low intelligence/psychotic person would have no trouble at the task.

Throughout the evolutionary epoch, a BALANCE of traits and distributions is what ensures survival.

There are no singular trait or combination of traits which excel at every niche. Adaptation is required.


LLann is talking about academic performance, while it is correlated with Intelligence, test beating can be trained, so it's not universally indicative of high intelligence.

 

[noisyturtle]

People overlook how many ultra-wealthy come from very wealthy families. No regular person is going to be able to take out a million $$ loan in their 20s/30s, you need to have a cosigner. Their definition of bootstraps is having had a Summer job once at 16, paying your way into an Ivy League school, then having daddy pay for their first business loan.

[fohat.digs]

how many ultra-wealthy come from very wealthy families.

The ultra-wealthy squeal bloody murder about inheritance taxes, they call them "death taxes" when those taxes are actually the least painful and "easiest" to pay of all taxes (particularly when the "floor" is set high, today I think it is about the first $2 Million that is not taxed at all). Kind of like how payroll taxes come out of your check before you ever see the money - make it simple.

Of course, inheritance and capitol-gains taxes were first on the chopping block under Reagan, and every other Republican since.

[tp4tissue]

So, just something on inheritance tax.

It makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things.

The person inheriting either holds on to money, or it "inflates" faster than interest (almost always does).

The problem isn't inheritance, it's what's being DONE with money in general.

The only way to HOLD ON TO MONEY, in this economy, is to GROW the destructive utilization of FINITE energy. Even with renewables, they're NOT renewable. Nothing about Steel /Aluminum/ Glass/Plastic wind turbines/300Ton Magnets are "Renewable."  They're an inefficient (cleaner running) power infrastructure, Fully Converted from Fossil Energy.  Not a single widget at the moment can be made without Diesel fuel in the pipeline.  Even before talking about all the MINING.

Where do you think asphalt /concrete comes from. All the black road comes from CO-products of OIL, all the concrete requires massive amounts of energy to make, most of which from Fossil.

Electricity is only 15-30% of the total energy economy. Everything else is Fossils. Electricity also can't power everything. It's QUALITATIVELY not capable of doing so.

There are trillions already invested in Diesel machinery, which CAN NOT be converted.  There isn't enough raw material on earth WITHIN the emission cap of 500ppm to fully electrify.

To replace 30% of European gas-fleet with electric vehicles would require more material than is known to exist, or in mined/refinery pipelines, You're looking at 100-1000 years worth of production on some materials.

That's what they capitalists don't talk about.  The truth is, there isn't enough to go around, and we're all headed for feudal peasantry.

Globalization is 100% collapsing, 40% of marine traffic is just shipping fossil energy to each other.  Imagine the price going up, and there's not enough to go around.

You couldn't buy the material you need to electrify with Infinite Money, they Won't Sell it to you. You have to mine it yourself.

America basically has to invade South America, and Canada, and Greenland.


Your children's children, will be peasants.


We're basically, down to a Miracle.  If AI doesn't work, we're ffffffffffff'd.   That's it.  last one.    Tp4 is merely saying, WE SHOULD've PANICKED, about 20 years ago, now it's almost certainly too late. .

Even if we successfully invade all these countries, We'll burn through 500ppm, and then what, flash and then NOTHING.

[tp4tissue]

People are completely disconnected from reality.

People think Food comes from the grocery stores.  NO, food comes from massive use of fossil energy. 1 farmer farms on average 1400 acres. That's before accounting for all the Fertilizer, which is a hugely energy intensive process to affix nitrogen.

[fohat.digs]

it's what's being DONE with money in general.

It is helpful to consider money to be a tool. In modern civilization, money is an extremely convenient medium of exchange, and it established thriving markets all over the world.

But whenever people start hoarding money, above and beyond whatever they are using and recirculating, it effectively disappears and disrupts the markets.

Then, either there are shortages and hardships or additional money must be "found" or "created" - use your imagination for the myriad ways that can happen.

I visualize the money scenario as like a river flowing down out of the mountains and providing water for all the farms along the way. If someone at a higher elevation "owns" the land that the river flows through and builds a dam to impound the water - everyone downstream will be shorted.

The question is whether "owning" the land allows you to "own" the water that passes through it, and/or what does "owning" actually mean?

To me, the native Americans had it right - when Europeans asked to "buy" the land, the Indians said "We belong to the land, the land does not belong to us."

[tp4tissue]

You go to the bank, you borrow money.

Bank notes your asset, and the liability of that asset.  THAT is money, instant money out of thin air.

This is how all central banks bring money from Non-existent to Existent.


That is to say, money is entirely fake. There is no true store of value whatsoever.  Neither is Gold a store of value, Gold/Silver is more/less like the original Bitcoin.


That's just the accounting, and political/power structure of our system, it's a ledger, NOTHING MORE. 


We are SPENDING -Finite-Energy-,  the Fatty Black Oil/Coal/Gas mother-nature LEFT for us, the inheritance, we can't make more, Renewables are greenwashing, they are NOT renewable, and they only make electricity, which can not replace the role of oil/gas/coal in the existing economic tech tree, the example given prior, asphalt/concrete/all plastics, you need fossil fuel to make..


What that ledger accounts for, the other side, is the REAL WORLD.  For the ledger to be net positive, we have to DO STUFF in the real world.

ALL STUFF that humans do, at the moment, is consumptive, Energy Intensive, and the majority of which, WASTEFUL.


Driving a 4000lb steel box around, just to move 1.5 person because they're too fat/lazy to walk is absolutely RIDICULOUS, and that model, is what every human being aspires to "DO" with "MONEY".


It's a hopeless and DIRE situation. 

[Leslieann]

LLann is talking about academic performance, while it is correlated with Intelligence, test beating can be trained, so it's not universally indicative of high intelligence.

I'm saying they have a leg up by being able to afford better schools and network with other wealthy which makes them seem smarter. For example, who's smarter, the Harvard grad or the community college grad? Is the Harvard grad smarter or did they just have the money and connections to get in?

I've met enough multi-millionaires and seen enough B.S. from these billionaires to know they aren't smarter, they simply have money and connections. In fact quite a few I've met were actually not smart at all.

[Rob27shred]

You go to the bank, you borrow money.

Bank notes your asset, and the liability of that asset.  THAT is money, instant money out of thin air.

This is how all central banks bring money from Non-existent to Existent.


That is to say, money is entirely fake. There is no true store of value whatsoever.  Neither is Gold a store of value, Gold/Silver is more/less like the original Bitcoin.


That's just the accounting, and political/power structure of our system, it's a ledger, NOTHING MORE. 


We are SPENDING -Finite-Energy-,  the Fatty Black Oil/Coal/Gas mother-nature LEFT for us, the inheritance, we can't make more, Renewables are greenwashing, they are NOT renewable, and they only make electricity, which can not replace the role of oil/gas/coal in the existing economic tech tree, the example given prior, asphalt/concrete/all plastics, you need fossil fuel to make..


What that ledger accounts for, the other side, is the REAL WORLD.  For the ledger to be net positive, we have to DO STUFF in the real world.

ALL STUFF that humans do, at the moment, is consumptive, Energy Intensive, and the majority of which, WASTEFUL.


Driving a 4000lb steel box around, just to move 1.5 person because they're too fat/lazy to walk is absolutely RIDICULOUS, and that model, is what every human being aspires to "DO" with "MONEY".


It's a hopeless and DIRE situation. 

TP tends to forget one thing, he's partaking in all he speaks against. While I don't completely disagree with your take on it I'll at least admit while the system is broken it is a system that we can (for now, probably not much longer) live in comfortably. While we may have not created these problems every single one of us are complicit with them, so not trying to be a ****, but you're points come off to me as "the pot calling the kettle black" especially considering your favorite place to air your grievances are an online forum. Can't get much more wasteful with energy than using it to yell into the void IMHO. Also I think you are greatly underestimating humans ingenuity. Sure we're definitely gonna ruin the planet for ourselves (again I argue that the earth & life on it will just be fine regardless of what we do), but there is also the very slight possibility we do find our way into space proper & find alternative ways to feed our need for energy. Lets not forget all matter is energy & that energy can be unlocked (see nuclear weapons). So unlike you I do see some kernels of hope in the wasteland we've been creating. Granted not enough of them for me to ever want to have kids & sentence my lineage to what may be if we don't get our **** together, but if I can still see ways out our situation I'm sure the brightest minds can see that many more. Ultimately though those decisions have been ripped from the hands of mankind as a whole & put into the hands of the worst of us. That is the main reason I have little hope for a prosperous future, as history has shown time & time again that those in power will always choose what is best for them in that moment, not what is best for humanity as whole & going forward, let alone taking the earth & it's ecosystems into consideration. You gotta learn to look at the whole picture TP, not just focus in on the worst of it.

[Rob27shred]

LLann is talking about academic performance, while it is correlated with Intelligence, test beating can be trained, so it's not universally indicative of high intelligence.

I'm saying they have a leg up by being able to afford better schools and network with other wealthy which makes them seem smarter. For example, who's smarter, the Harvard grad or the community college grad? Is the Harvard grad smarter or did they just have the money and connections to get in?

I've met enough multi-millionaires and seen enough B.S. from these billionaires to know they aren't smarter, they simply have money and connections. In fact quite a few I've met were actually not smart at all.

This I'll 100% agree with as we've all seen it first hand whether we realize it or not. Actual intelligence is pretty low on the list of things needed to find your way to wealth, while your lot in life & who you are connected to are the top two things that will designate your chances of accumulating wealth. I'll make a simple analogy we should all be able to relate too. I went to school with a kid who's dad was the head coach of our HS football team. Even though we had plenty of players who were not only physical better, but smarter than him, he always got the starting spot in whatever position he wanted while playing under his dad. He also got a full ride scholarship to college even though his football skills did not translate to the collegiate level (dude never even started a game in his 4 years) thanks to his dad's connections. Then from there was able to float his way into a decently high paying white collar job despite being dumb as a rock & possessing the bare minimum of skills/knowledge for the job he took. That's the world we live in, actual intelligence & skill does not help you whatsoever when you have nepotism running so rampant. In fact it's probably one of the biggest reason the US's standing in the world has & continues to slip farther away from being the world leaders we once were.

[fohat.digs]

for me to ever want to have kids & sentence my lineage to what may be

My kids are the greatest part of my life and I could hardly imagine them not existing. We (too) often talk about the state of the world and the future, yet they (unlike many members of younger generations) don't "blame" those of us who came before, ie the last few hundreds of generations of their ancestors - but most especially their parents - for the accumulating cataclysm of **** that is crashing down around us.

They accept that everyone has to play the cards that they are dealt, and that there is more beauty and awesomeness in the world than anyone can experience in a lifetime - so it is up to them to seek out beauty and inspiration rather than wallow in self-pity.

I have asked them, very specifically, "Do you think that we did the right thing in bringing you into the world?" and they were very enthusiastically glad to exist, even though they have certainly had their low places.

 

I went to school with a kid who's dad was the head coach of our HS football team.

It is quite amusing but sad for me to listen to the kerfuffle of Drumpf's war, absolute obsession of fury, against Harvard University (specifically), with hardly any of the news outlets providing the simple background.

Harvard turned Baron Trump down for admission - this is all just a ludicrous temper tantrum for revenge.

[tp4tissue]

I have asked them, very specifically, "Do you think that we did the right thing in bringing you into the world?" and they were very enthusiastically glad to exist, even though they have certainly had their low places.

Of course, THEY'RE glad, this is the absolute BEST TIME to be alive, especially in America.

With very little actual labor,  we get to eat food, and heck go on vacation 2 weeks a year.  Oh you can splitter splatter on a keyboard and money just comes out?, whaaaaa....   Ask anyone in the last 10,000 years, how many people were able to not break a literal sweat and get "fed" by society.

There is no doubt this IS the best time to be alive. 

Tp4's point is, this time is very short.  And it's about to end CATASTROPHICALLY.


Below is world energy use, Peak oil is around 2018, we're past it.  The yellow line is the rough expectation.

The Graph Left bottom is your typical mining depletion graph, and the bottom right is the exponential increase in COST, you go from cheap easily mine-able material, to increasingly more and more difficult to amortize plays.

We've exhausted all of the easy to get oil, we're down to the last drop of economically feasible (EROI) of oil. This is also the case with MANY critical minerals.

That is to say, what's happening, is that, EVEN IF there is more stuff in the ground, it's NOT in a condition (low concentration) that it would be POSITIVE economically to GET IT.

For example, we used to be able to find giant Nuggets of Copper just like nuggets of GOLD,  NOW, we have to grind up entire mountains of copper ore, to get copper.

You would spend MORE ENERGY to get the difficult-Oil than that oil is worth.  The knock on effect of energy pricing across ALL markets is Armageddon relative to what a person might expect "Life To Be Like."

[tp4tissue]

This is what "Exxon Mobile" expects.

No bull****, we're screwed.   That entire top area is Imaginary, and they're already downplaying how dire it's going to be.

Everything you know will simply stop working.    There is no substitute for OIL.

Absent a miracle in something like Thorium reactors, critical components of which have NOT been invented, and has 0$$$ investment. ONLY CHINA is a serious player in even researching it. 

Enjoy the last 20 years of 700watt gaming PCs. 

[Leslieann]

Harvard turned Baron Trump down for admission - this is all just a ludicrous temper tantrum for revenge.

A lot of big schools turn down people who should easily get in (or have connections) and the reason is they know these kids applied to almost every big league school they could and they don't want to accept them only to have the kid flake on them and not show up, robbing someone else of a spot. That's why we have a lot of entitled people screaming "racism" and "DEI" because they feel they were more qualified and yet didn't.

How many other schools did Baron apply to? He can only attend one.

[fohat.digs]

they know these kids applied to almost every big league school

entitled people screaming

How many other schools did Baron apply to?

My guess that both sides were all in on the Kabuki theater.

Drumph was in it exclusively for the bragging rights (although I think that Baron might have gone there just for the raw "prestige" of it).

My guess is that Harvard admissions might have wanted to "thumb its nose" at that repugnant buffoon.