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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #600 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 16:59:39 »
one issue with doing that is you cant choose which LED to be on

Offline Dox

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« Reply #601 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 17:07:48 »
Quote from: ishtob;468452
one issue with doing that is you cant choose which LED to be on
You could put multiple planes for different zone and wire the planes to your dip switch.
Here is what it looks like before I added the planes.
[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 34608[/ATTACH]

edit: here is the file if you want to take a look at it. Link
« Last Edit: Sun, 11 December 2011, 17:19:00 by Dox »
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Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #602 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 18:28:29 »
I am so looking forward to the finished products of the PCB since having our own DOX keyboards will feel much more personal than buying the KBC Poker alternative. Especially since they would be much easier to re-program instead of trying to "fix" a Poker.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #603 on: Sun, 11 December 2011, 19:27:38 »
thanks dox!

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #604 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:04:38 »
I'll be working on this over winter break, think I might take dox's suggestion on using filled planes and thinner traces

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #605 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:15:18 »
The test plates came in last night... I will be updating the tutorial soon too.... the stabilizer bar under the teensy gave me a bit of trouble installing the spacebar stabs, took  a while to get in.
note to self: solder on the teensy last >.<

here's some snapshots:







as for screws i got these M2x9 torx screws off metricscrews.us


Offline ishtob

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« Reply #606 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:29:24 »
2 of the screwhole are still a bit off from the base, i'll need to do a bit of tweaking

the current one i'm using works only  after some file work
« Last Edit: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:36:15 by ishtob »

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #607 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 09:56:50 »
are you using a plate with Cherry Stabilizers? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of using the Costar stabilizers which are thinner than Cherry Stabilizers and therefore probably will not fit into the plate now.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #608 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 10:01:15 »
I went with cherry cuz there is no way to source costars at the moment plus I have the measurements for the cherry stabs

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #609 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 10:07:08 »
Did you have a chance to test the quick-stem-swap slots?
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #610 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 10:15:00 »
WASD did say he would have the stabilizers by the end of this month, along with MX switches. So hopefully we will be able to test all of that before January or at least early January.
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #611 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:27:03 »
Quote from: RiGS;469649
Did you have a chance to test the quick-stem-swap slots?


whats that?

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #612 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 11:46:38 »
The reason the plate holes are not simple rectangles is an attempt at making it possible to open switches while still in the plate.  I'm pretty sure the PCB also has to have holes to make this possible, but the idea is that those notches allow you to open the switch.
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Offline Index

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« Reply #613 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 12:05:14 »
Yo ishtob, have you thought about actually getting the components of a teensy and soldering it directly onto the DOX pcb? You could even try getting an Aikon on there instead (see if SmallFry would provide you the necessary files).

Here are the teensy schematics:
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

If you could model it, I'll gladly order a couple and test it.
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Offline RiGS

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« Reply #614 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 13:00:52 »
Quote from: ishtob;469713
whats that?

^
I believe alaricljs just explained it.
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline RiGS

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« Reply #615 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 14:32:49 »
Quote from: Index;469762
Yo ishtob, have you thought about actually getting the components of a teensy and soldering it directly onto the DOX pcb? You could even try getting an Aikon on there instead (see if SmallFry would provide you the necessary files).

Here are the teensy schematics:
http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/schematic.html

If you could model it, I'll gladly order a couple and test it.


I wanted to ask the same thing.
Koreans nicely implemented it on the A.87 PCB and the MX mini.



source
source2
Last edited by RiGS; Jan 2011

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #616 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 19:38:30 »
that could be done.. but not sure how many people can do smt.. i can, and was going to use smt diodes and resisters.. but decided to not for that reason

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #617 on: Tue, 13 December 2011, 21:45:02 »
If it means not having a hole in the metal plate then I am all for it.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #618 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 00:04:41 »
I personally would like the board sooner than later and if it works out to refine it more.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #619 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 01:55:01 »
that's exactly what I've been doing... i could get a version of the one you wanted out by next week if you'd like and get working on it, but i will keep working on getting the 1.5 mod ones up for the rest of the people

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #620 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 01:55:37 »
we can order 2 PCB's off PCBexpress and send the other one to you/or you to me

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #621 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 02:02:19 »
Quote from: ishtob;470341
that's exactly what I've been doing... i could get a version of the one you wanted out by next week if you'd like and get working on it, but i will keep working on getting the 1.5 mod ones up for the rest of the people

yes i know you are and i thank you for that. I have many ideas to make this better im many different way as well but we should make sure our current changes are working properly berfore expanding.

Quote from: ishtob;470342
we can order 2 PCB's off PCBexpress and send the other one to you/or you to me

Sounds good to me i should have many of the parts comming in soon. Maybe i should start ordering the electronics as well.


O just so you know i got a quote on plates "For $65 you can get 2 sets of 2 different designs."
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 December 2011, 02:08:24 by TheProfosist »

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #622 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 09:48:41 »
Wow that is a great price on those plates, very nice. As far as the design of the plates though I am definitely waiting until we have the sizes for the costar ones. Also has anyone tested if the plates fit inside of the Poker cases? It would be nice to know if I should be picking one up from the classifieds or not.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #623 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:01:09 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470504
Wow that is a great price on those plates, very nice. As far as the design of the plates though I am definitely waiting until we have the sizes for the costar ones. Also has anyone tested if the plates fit inside of the Poker cases? It would be nice to know if I should be picking one up from the classifieds or not.
yep fits http://tinyurl.com/bw4rlmr I also want costar since WASD will soon have them.

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #624 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:06:39 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470519
yep fits http://tinyurl.com/bw4rlmr I also want costar since WASD will soon have them.


How is it going to attach in a way that it is above the pcb, are we using some spacers between the PCB and the plate?
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #625 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:11:45 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470524
How is it going to attach in a way that it is above the pcb, are we using some spacers between the PCB and the plate?

idk i belive the plan was to just test it first by snapping in the switches.

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #626 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:16:25 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470531
idk i belive the plan was to just test it first by snapping in the switches.

snapping in the switches doesn't create a underside lock on to the plate to my knowledge. the plate prevents them from falling through. If you were to press on the plate theoretically with nothing between it and the pcb it would slide down off of the switches.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #627 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:22:06 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470539
snapping in the switches doesn't create a underside lock on to the plate to my knowledge. the plate prevents them from falling through. If you were to press on the plate theoretically with nothing between it and the pcb it would slide down off of the switches.
yep there are just little snaps on the switches not much preventing it from falling that is why I said test it (as in the plate) first.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #628 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:50:14 »
My Filco 87key has nothing other than the switches holding the PCB and plate together/apart.  Doesn't seem to be an issue.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #629 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:53:15 »
Quote from: alaricljs;470558
My Filco 87key has nothing other than the switches holding the PCB and plate together/apart.  Doesn't seem to be an issue.
O but it does there should be posts that go through the pcb to the plate.

Offline alaricljs

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« Reply #630 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:54:46 »
The posts that go through the PCB support the plate if that's what you're talking about... so yeah, the case supports the plate and switches, the PCB is presumably left hanging onto the switches.

However, placing the PCB on a solid surface and typing on it is no different feel wise.  Noise is a bit more tho.
« Last Edit: Wed, 14 December 2011, 10:57:19 by alaricljs »
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #631 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 11:03:20 »
Quote from: alaricljs;470566
The posts that go through the PCB support the plate if that's what you're talking about... so yeah, the case supports the plate and switches, the PCB is presumably left hanging onto the switches.

However, placing the PCB on a solid surface and typing on it is no different feel wise.  Noise is a bit more tho.
shoudl be fine because there are so many switches that most would have to release at the same time which shouldnt happen because of the clips.

Offline litster

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« Reply #632 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 11:05:33 »
the acrylic case I am designing have posts to support the plate.  But the next version the posts will be gone, and the PCB will just sit on the bottom acrylic plate.  Most, if not all, Korean custom keyboards have PCBs sitting on the case bottom.

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #633 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 11:07:32 »
it shouldnt be too had to paint the plate matt black and still be used right? woner if i should try that dampening material that people say would take the ring out of plate mounted switches

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #634 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 11:53:22 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470539
snapping in the switches doesn't create a underside lock on to the plate to my knowledge. the plate prevents them from falling through. If you were to press on the plate theoretically with nothing between it and the pcb it would slide down off of the switches.


not sure how the costars will work in taht aspect, but the current cherry stabs i'm using acts as standoffs on either side of the keyboard, allowing me to juse a 9mm screw to bolt the whole thing down, the stabilizer's underside keep the plate at the right level. The 0.0625 aluminum is also hard enough to stay rigid everywhere else that doesnt have a stabilizer near it.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #635 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 11:54:01 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470573
it shouldnt be too had to paint the plate matt black and still be used right? woner if i should try that dampening material that people say would take the ring out of plate mounted switches


i would try going to rubberizing paint... though the thickness of it may be an issue.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #636 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:04:29 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470539
snapping in the switches doesn't create a underside lock on to the plate to my knowledge. the plate prevents them from falling through. If you were to press on the plate theoretically with nothing between it and the pcb it would slide down off of the switches.


my other thought is to have extra 4-6 extra holes where we can bolt in stand offs (small plastic cylinders?), i would still need to figure out where to place those would go

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #637 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:20:37 »
Quote from: ishtob;470596
i would try going to rubberizing paint... though the thickness of it may be an issue.

do you know any brands so I can start looking?

Quote from: ishtob;470604
my other thought is to have extra 4-6 extra holes where we can bolt in stand offs (small plastic cylinders?), i would still need to figure out where to place those would go

i would consider that a great idea but where are we going to find the cylinders? and wouldnt it be a mighty pain to get the in there and make then stay without it being screwed down?

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #638 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:29:13 »
I figured there was going to be standoffs in the place where the old screws would go to hold the pcb in place

In other words, larger hole in the pcb so that the standoff can pass straight through it and just have the plate mounted since that would hold the pcb in place.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #639 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:33:25 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470620
I figured there was going to be standoffs in the place where the old screws would go to hold the pcb in place
Show Image

In other words, larger hole in the pcb so that the standoff can pass straight through it and just have the plate mounted since that would hold the pcb in place.
that would work we need to find a plce to get the proper length standoff though.

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #640 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:37:26 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470625
that would work we need to find a plce to get the proper length standoff though.

Considering the poker doesn't have a "maximum" height since it doesn't have a front cover I suppose you could make it almost any height as long as the standoff is 'tall enough'
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #641 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 12:42:30 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470632
Considering the poker doesn't have a "maximum" height since it doesn't have a front cover I suppose you could make it almost any height as long as the standoff is 'tall enough'
PLate still has to be below the edge of the case that the only real restriction.

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #642 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 13:42:04 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470620
I figured there was going to be standoffs in the place where the old screws would go to hold the pcb in place

In other words, larger hole in the pcb so that the standoff can pass straight through it and just have the plate mounted since that would hold the pcb in place.


but if we do that we wont be able to have people who want to do pcb mount to just use pcb mout

Offline ishtob

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« Reply #643 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 13:44:23 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470614
do you know any brands so I can start looking?


lol.. no idea.. it was just an idea

Quote from: TheProfosist;470614

i would consider that a great idea but where are we going to find the cylinders? and wouldnt it be a mighty pain to get the in there and make then stay without it being screwed down?


no, i was saying seperate holes for just the stand offs, so we can have the plate standing on top of the pcb, that way when we do use the original holes to screw down the whole assembly, we won't have to worry about getting the standoffs into place

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #644 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:11:46 »
Quote from: ishtob;470702
lol.. no idea.. it was just an idea



no, i was saying seperate holes for just the stand offs, so we can have the plate standing on top of the pcb, that way when we do use the original holes to screw down the whole assembly, we won't have to worry about getting the standoffs into place

hmm how about this stuff http://tinyurl.com/c79du36

isnt the pcb angled in relation to the bottom of the case so wouldnt stand off be completly angle if going straight through the pcb to the bottom of the case?

Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #645 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:13:45 »
I think truck be loner might be too thick look at the thickness per coat http://tinyurl.com/cmzh3tb

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #646 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:14:29 »
How could we use separate holes for the standoffs considering the poker only has a certain amount of holes in it by default. What if instead we placed a standoff similar to the ones used for motherboards in-between the PCB and the plate? Then we could use the same exact holes to hold everything together.
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Offline TheProfosist

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« Reply #647 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:18:12 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470718
How could we use separate holes for the standoffs considering the poker only has a certain amount of holes in it by default. What if instead we placed a standoff similar to the ones used for motherboards in-between the PCB and the plate? Then we could use the same exact holes to hold everything together.
already mentioned the problem with the how are you going to get it inbetween and hold it in place until you put the screw in?

Offline bloodygood

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« Reply #648 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:31:00 »
Quote from: TheProfosist;470720
already mentioned the problem with the how are you going to get it inbetween and hold it in place until you put the screw in?

There are already holes in the PCB and holes in the plate, screw them in shallow and finish screwing them in once they are correctly aligned to the holes in the poker case.
Screw top of plate to standoff. insert all mx switches and solder them to pcb. finish screwing into case.
does that make sense?
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Offline ishtob

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« Reply #649 on: Wed, 14 December 2011, 14:34:36 »
Quote from: bloodygood;470718
How could we use separate holes for the standoffs considering the poker only has a certain amount of holes in it by default. What if instead we placed a standoff similar to the ones used for motherboards in-between the PCB and the plate? Then we could use the same exact holes to hold everything together.


i think both of you are missed what i was trying to do :P

i'm not saying we stand off to the case, we are standing off the PCB on seperate holes, so we can still screw the keybaord on based on those PCB positions, it will be like:

Plate -> stand off on PCB ---THEN--- PCB +plate screwed into the board. so the assembly would already be solid freestanding, now we can just screw the whole thing in and not worry about placing standoffs and screws in without it falling out of place
here's a text diagram if you still don't get it:
plate ---==-----plate----------------------------==------<----usual spot for the screw
.............| <--- standoff + screwed to pcb......|  <--- screw to case
PCB-----------------------------------------------==-------------PCB
...........==<-- bolt for screw from plate........|  <--- screw to case (same screw as the above through PCB)
case----------------------------------------------== <-- bolt on the case