MX-brown, Impressions + Hate thread

[tp4tissue]

Had a serious sit-down with mx-brown on a das today, after a huge argument with my friend who "adores" the browns..



The sensation of the little bump of the mx-brown is like feeling for a single grain of sand on a smooth table.... Tactile ??  GTFO !!!!


I conclude, Blue is the best mx-switch. My friend can go to hell,, actually he's not even my friend anymore. Number deleted....

[bbbbqq]

mx brown, the most overrated switch of all.

[Netdewt]

Gah. How am I supposed to choose via the internets???

Browns seem to be favorites!

[ReAzem]

You can have an idea on the internet but you can't be certain.

I agree that browns are way less tactile than blues, but bowns feel smoother.

[squarebox]

I guess TS is too used to the double-action feel of blues.
Try till you meet the Red switch lovers.



Personally, I love Red and Brown but hate blues even though I like buckling springs.

[c0rbin]

I've only tried Browns and I like them. They sucked and my typing speed was decreased until I could get used to not bottoming out... the extra travel = slow typing.

[tp4tissue]

I've only tried Browns and I like them. They sucked and my typing speed was decreased until I could get used to not bottoming out... the extra travel = slow typing.

How fast do you type,, /

[ReAzem]

I've only tried Browns and I like them. They sucked and my typing speed was decreased until I could get used to not bottoming out... the extra travel = slow typing.

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[Aranair]

... Browns are awesome for typing like seriously The tactile bump is just about right for a light typer imo.

(Btw, is there really increased travel if you don't bottom out? I find that I'm moving about the same as on my blues previously if you ask me.)

[whiskerBox]

Blues are way overrated! I think people just get them so other people have to hear the type and are like "why your keyboard so loud?" to which old blue says "well actually it's a mechanical keyboard!"

I have an ******* like this @ work.

Oh and they sound like crackling plastic! Hate hate hate

[1391406]

There's no way anyone will ever convince me that Brown's are more tactile than Blues. No way whatsoever. Unless I were to type ever so slowly and gently, I'd never even notice the slight tactile bump with Browns. At full speed they feel linear, at least compared to Blues, in my opinion.

[Aranair]

They are not more tactile than blues but the tactile is more than sufficient for me. I think it really depends on whether you are a heavy typer or light typer..

[ReAzem]

There's no way anyone will ever convince me that Brown's are more tactile than Blues. No way whatsoever. Unless I were to type ever so slowly and gently, I'd never even notice the slight tactile bump with Browns. At full speed they feel linear, at least compared to Blues, in my opinion.

This is so true.

The bump is here, but good luck feeling it.

[fossala]

Buckling springs and topre are the best 2 switch types. I find cherry a bit cheap feeling.

[quickcrx702]

I will agree that blues feel pretty good, but that typing on egg shell noise gets REALLY annoying during long typing sessions.  Kind of like eating sweets, in small amounts they are great, but if you eat them all day, they make you sick.  The mx brown doesn't feel tactile when you type quickly compared to blues, but when you type on reds you definitely notice how tactile browns are in comparison.

[fossala]

When I type fast on brown (90wpm+) I cannot really feel the bump.

[tp4tissue]

They are not more tactile than blues but the tactile is more than sufficient for me. I think it really depends on whether you are a heavy typer or light typer..

light typers are slow typers... I don't mash on my keyboard, but even with the greatest care, i bottom out..

[tp4tissue]

I will agree that blues feel pretty good, but that typing on egg shell noise gets REALLY annoying during long typing sessions.  Kind of like eating sweets, in small amounts they are great, but if you eat them all day, they make you sick.  The mx brown doesn't feel tactile when you type quickly compared to blues, but when you type on reds you definitely notice how tactile browns are in comparison.

that's like saying a gtr is closer to a ferrari than a civic,,, YEA,, it's closer,, but it's no damn ferrari...   Blue = Ferrari (tactile-ness)

[tp4tissue]

I challenged someone before on this: I want to see someone type 90-100wpm on browns without bottoming out.

Can't be done!!!!!   Bottoming out is probably the biggest myth around geekhack.

[Tony]

We have voted for that before. Browns have a little more votes than blues and buckling springs.

Most people who like browns are low profile and do not waste time to argue with outspoken blue users. But they do vote anyway.

[tp4tissue]

We have voted for that before. Browns have a little more votes than blues and buckling springs.

Most people who like browns are low profile and do not waste time to argue with outspoken blue users. But they do vote anyway.

Democracy?? and look what it's doing to America.... Fvcking us that's what..


Blue  FTW..

[Squelos]

Without bottoming out once ?  
I know that when I type at "normal speed" (as in 60wpm) i dont bottom out that much on my blues (lets say 60% of total strokes bottom out).
When i try pushing my WPM to maximum (75) I do bottom out more than when typing normally.

So people are saying browns are actually very linear. So the main difference between browns and red is the actuation force ?

[Forin]

I bought MX brown for my first board. Everybody was recommending. That was a mistake.

Blues all the way.

mx brown, the most overrated switch of all.

[Roguemaster8]

About to get a KBC Poker with browns.

Coming from buckling springs and MX blues, I'm worried I'll be disappointed.

[yttrium]

Shouting "BLUES FTW BROWNS SUCK" isn't going to get you anywhere.

It's common sense that blues are louder and more tactile than browns. It's simply the design of the switch. Browns are still tactile, but not AS tactile.

Browns have their place, and so do blues. It comes down to preference and what you do with your keyboard. I prefer browns over blues, but I'm also an avid RTS gamer.

[Netdewt]

My #1 reason for doing browns vs blues is that awful noise from the blues. I thought I had decided on a Leopold with browns, but maybe I'll reconsider the Unicomp...

[Roguemaster8]

As an avid Minecraft gamer, what switch would I prefer?

[metafour]

As an avid Minecraft gamer, what switch would I prefer?

The one YOU like the most.

It's like wine. There is science and facts to backup what's in a bottle of some top dollar bottles but it still comes down to personal taste.

There are switch diagrams galore and there is reasoning behind each setup but it still comes down to personal taste.

[RC-1140]

Browns? Blues? Ergoclears FTW! Absolute great tactility, and without that sound of shaking a bag of legos! Feel great to type on. Much less hysteresis than Blues. But still not as good for typing as Buckling Springs. For gaming I would prefer Reds or Blacks.

[Natanji]

Ultimate argument against blues: I don't like the clicking *at all*. Can't argue with that, can you?

[snoopy]

Until now I only had the chance to type on blacks and browns. I like the browns more than the blacks. But my next keyboard will have the blues because I heard that they are great for typing.

[Roguemaster8]

Ultimate argument against blues: I don't like the clicking *at all*. Can't argue with that, can you?

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[RC-1140]

If you don't mind the click, then go for buckling spring. If you type on blues with headphones on you will notice, that they aren't as tactile as you'd think.

I have to admit, I really dislike browns. Ergoclears really are worth the money and time you spend on them.

[Netdewt]

There are no keyboards available with ergoclears... so do you retrofit them?

[Surly73]

Had a serious sit-down with mx-brown on a das today, after a huge argument with my friend who "adores" the browns..



The sensation of the little bump of the mx-brown is like feeling for a single grain of sand on a smooth table.... Tactile ??  GTFO !!!!


I conclude, Blue is the best mx-switch. My friend can go to hell,, actually he's not even my friend anymore. Number deleted....

I had a post about this in the past week in another thread.

I completely agree - if you sit down and play with a brown switch seeking to comment on its "tactility" you will come away with the impression that it's just a gritty spot in the action of the switch.

If, however, you actuate four switches at a time (one per finger) you can clearly feel it's a bump and not grit.  Furthermore, if you A/B compare against a linear switch (red or black) it will be a night-and-day difference despite the fact that you do not perceive the brown as "poppy" and "tactile".  I find that you don't necessarily think of the brown as tactile unless you switch to a linear board.

So, if you want to be amused by click sounds (like buckling springs on MX blues) then a brown won't satisfy you.  If you want tactile feedback that will still train your muscle memory without annoying your neighbours, then I think the brown may be a little more brilliant than many people think after a short test drive.

Browns aren't overtly tactile like Realforce 55g or buckling springs, but they certainly aren't linear like reds or blacks either.  It's easy to tell the difference, especially after allowing an appropriate learning interval.  I usually consider a week of use at work to be just about right to truly form an impression of a new switch.

[Surly73]

When I type fast on brown (90wpm+) I cannot really feel the bump.

But you would definitely feel the lack of bump if you switched to a black or red board and resumed typing...

[RC-1140]

There are no keyboards available with ergoclears... so do you retrofit them?

yup, buy a keyboard you like with browns, blues or reds (to make things easy PCB Mounted) and buy a cheap board with Clears. Then 1 or 2 hours of work, and you have the best Cherry switches ever. On Plate mounted boards it's more time consuming, but still doable and definitely worth it.

[xquisit]

I had a post about this in the past week in another thread.

I completely agree - if you sit down and play with a brown switch seeking to comment on its "tactility" you will come away with the impression that it's just a gritty spot in the action of the switch.

If, however, you actuate four switches at a time (one per finger) you can clearly feel it's a bump and not grit.  Furthermore, if you A/B compare against a linear switch (red or black) it will be a night-and-day difference despite the fact that you do not perceive the brown as "poppy" and "tactile".  I find that you don't necessarily think of the brown as tactile unless you switch to a linear board.

So, if you want to be amused by click sounds (like buckling springs on MX blues) then a brown won't satisfy you.  If you want tactile feedback that will still train your muscle memory without annoying your neighbours, then I think the brown may be a little more brilliant than many people think after a short test drive.

Browns aren't overtly tactile like Realforce 55g or buckling springs, but they certainly aren't linear like reds or blacks either.  It's easy to tell the difference, especially after allowing an appropriate learning interval.  I usually consider a week of use at work to be just about right to truly form an impression of a new switch.

Great post, I think it might help me decide on my first mechanical keyboard (Only tried blue/red/black).

[xquisit]

yup, buy a keyboard you like with browns, blues or reds (to make things easy PCB Mounted) and buy a cheap board with Clears. Then 1 or 2 hours of work, and you have the best Cherry switches ever. On Plate mounted boards it's more time consuming, but still doable and definitely worth it.

Sorry for double post, but what is the difference between ergo clears and brown switches? I have tried neither.

[RC-1140]

Sorry for double post, but what is the difference between ergo clears and brown switches? I have tried neither.

Well, the ergoclears are basically the stems of Cherry MX Clears, combined with the light springs of Blues/Reds/Browns. So they have a much stronger tactile bump (and it's really more of a bump than the razor sharp actuation point of Buckling Springs) than ordinary browns. This is a Mod of Cherry switches you have to do on your own. There are no Ergoclears which can be readily bought.

[xquisit]

Well, the ergoclears are basically the stems of Cherry MX Clears, combined with the light springs of Blues/Reds/Browns. So they have a much stronger tactile bump (and it's really more of a bump than the razor sharp actuation point of Buckling Springs) than ordinary browns. This is a Mod of Cherry switches you have to do on your own. There are no Ergoclears which can be readily bought.

Which mechanical keyboard do you suggest me search for(hopefully, a cheap one) that will have clears?  I'd like to try these someday!

[RC-1140]

Well, that depends on your location. AFAIK one of the cheapest ones with Clears is the G80-3000 LQC**. Available in Germany for around 50€. But with international shipping and such maybe you might want to look for a Leopold with Clears. (But I really don't know much about Leopolds. They aren't available here.)

[xquisit]

I just posted in a thread, hoping the owner sees it, and I was hoping to get one with a student discount.

[tp4tissue]

The one YOU like the most.

It's like wine. There is science and facts to backup what's in a bottle of some top dollar bottles but it still comes down to personal taste.

There are switch diagrams galore and there is reasoning behind each setup but it still comes down to personal taste.

Yes but wine has no purpose,,, it's an acquired taste,, no one likes the taste of alcohol,, the point of alcohol is to get drunk,, thus wine = fail, because, absolute or svedka gets you drunk much FASTER, and can be diluted.....

Mx blue on the other hand HAS a purpose,,, it helps you type faster.

[tp4tissue]

Shouting "BLUES FTW BROWNS SUCK" isn't going to get you anywhere.

It's common sense that blues are louder and more tactile than browns. It's simply the design of the switch. Browns are still tactile, but not AS tactile.

Browns have their place, and so do blues. It comes down to preference and what you do with your keyboard. I prefer browns over blues, but I'm also an avid RTS gamer.

Yea browns have their place, In a land fill,, Not on any keyboards.

[tp4tissue]

About to get a KBC Poker with browns.

Coming from buckling springs and MX blues, I'm worried I'll be disappointed.

You will be....

[tp4tissue]

Until now I only had the chance to type on blacks and browns. I like the browns more than the blacks. But my next keyboard will have the blues because I heard that they are great for typing.

correction,, they're the Best for typing.

[tp4tissue]

But you would definitely feel the lack of bump if you switched to a black or red board and resumed typing...

very true, i am not arguing that there's absolutely no difference.. the trouble is you're comparing  a whisper (black/red) to a 2km/h gust of wind (brown)..Yea it's louder and more tactile,, but seriouly....


There is such thing as sensation threshold...   and brown is just too low to overcome the bombardment of stimuli from everywhere else.

[rknize]

My two cents: if you want tactile, get a Model M.  Nothing compares.  If you want to quiet it down a tad, do a grease or "floss" mod.  I've done both.

My first MX board was a Rosewill with browns.  I was trying to find something a little quieter than the buckling-spring for use at home.  I was put-off by the "gritty" feel at first, but after a week or two the grit mostly went away and I came to like them.  I can type very fast on them, though with more errors than on a Model M.  Now I have keyboards with every type of MX switch (except for blacks).  For typing, browns have the lightest feel of them all.  That little "relief" that you get when it passes the little bump make the keys feel more comfortable than a board with reds, even though they both use the same spring.  They are also pretty decent for gaming, but not the best.  I just got a WASD V1 with reds and o-rings.  I really like this combo too.  The reduced travel makes the key lighter, since it doesn't bottom out as far.  It's pretty good for typing and great for gaming.  It has become my main home keyboard...at least until I get bored with it.

I have a Poker and a Filco with blues.  I never use them.  They are a bit more tactile than the browns, yes, but the click is annoyingly high-pitched and "fake".  The click happens at a seemingly random time after the key registers, depending which key I press.  As a long-time Model M user, this trips me up for some reason.  Both of these keyboards will be converted to ergo-clears.  I'm typing on an ergo-clear keyboard right now and it's awesome.  Best typing experience for me on a Cherry MX switch.

This will be a very personal choice, so good luck!

[quickcrx702]

that's like saying a gtr is closer to a ferrari than a civic,,, YEA,, it's closer,, but it's no damn ferrari...   Blue = Ferrari (tactile-ness)

Sorry, but you are wrong about that.  55g Topre = Ferrari.  The 55g Topre is VERY tactile, and has a very low pitch noise that never gets annoying.  Keeping with your analogy of cars and how tactile various keyswitches are - blues would be a GTR with a loud ass "hey look at me" ricerocket exhaust and some other performance enhancing mods, browns would be a stock GTR, and reds would be a stock Civic LOL.  I'm not arguing that Blues are a great switch, but for some people like me, that high pitch noise REALLY starts to get annoying if you have to do a lot of typing.  The browns aren't quite as nice, but you don't have to deal with the annoying noise, and it still feels good to type on.