How can you like Topre?

[wupi]

Just tried a Topre switch (hhkb), thinking I would love them.

In short I didn't, the feel is mooshy.

They're lyke the yacht of rubber dome keyboards. Don't understand the expensive ass price tag.

Blues FTW!

<°)))o><

[dreamingftw]

I got an 87U 45g recently and love it, but now considering on getting a 55g Realforce but not sure if I should.  Wondering if its worth it to also get a 55g...

[Aranair]

LOL I forget the exact number because I had been drinking when I measured it, but I think it was about 75g or 80g on the ripometer.  I'm sober now, but sadly I don't have a bunch of nickels right now.  It is heavy, but as long as you don't have little girl fingers it won't be too bad, and you will be rewarded by amazing tactility and oneness with cup rubber.

Unfortunately i do have *cough* light-fingers. The 55g ripometer was half killing me over the course of 2 weeks, let alone 80

[quickcrx702]

I got an 87U 45g recently and love it, but now considering on getting a 55g Realforce but not sure if I should.  Wondering if its worth it to also get a 55g...

YES!!!  Afterwards you'll wish both of your Topre keyboards were 55g.

[quickcrx702]

Unfortunately i do have *cough* light-fingers. The 55g ripometer was half killing me over the course of 2 weeks, let alone 80

Just drink a protein shake after a heavy typing session, that should help build some muscle LOL.

[tp4tissue]

Just drink a protein shake after a heavy typing session, that should help build some muscle LOL.

Do wrist curls...

[tp4tissue]

I have 3 RF and 1 HHKB right now and I know it's a matter of time before I get a black HHKB as well as a type-s

What did they do to the regular to make the Type S,, I know it's "silent" but what exactly was done???

[fossala]

dampaners to stop the rebound of the key clacking.

[seferphier]

The sound of a topre switch hitting bottom is a thocking sound of the plunger hitting rubber. Most of the sound comes from the rebound, when the top of the plunger smacks against the inside of the top housing. So they don't really operate/silence like Cherries do. The Type S is really just a foam ring around the base of the plunger, so that when it rebounds and goes to smack against the top of the inside of the housing, it's dampened. I'd totally do a DIY Type S if there was some more information about it (I think only one person has ever done it)

yea i seen a clip on youtube before... seems like a lot of trouble though.

[HybridCore]

I don't get the hype around Topre's either, I only understand a little. I tried some in Japan last year at the Cleverly Store (which is where I also purchased my Filco Majestouch Black with Cherry Blues aka Japanese version of the Ninja with blues) and I thought they felt a bit mushy too but it was so smooth.

[Awful]

Like this.

Thock, Thick.

Thock, Thick.

Listen to the silence in between.  That is the kerning of sound.

Namaste.

Hey that's what it sounds like when I plunge my toilet!

That's where Topre got their idea. I'm brilliant.

[tehsprayer]

I like blues too!


-- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums

[Surly73]

Topre look way overpriced in my opinion. But then I never had one. Might change my mind if i ever get one.

Topre pricing simply follows the usual principle of diminishing returns.  An 87U isn't "three times" better than a Leopold.  At the same time, non geekhackers shake their heads at anyone who spends more than $10 on a keyboard.  The Realforce switches do have a special feel that aren't duplicated by anything else, in my opinion.  Whether that is worth the price TO YOU is up to no one but you.

[Surly73]

How long did you use the HHKB for? General consensus is can take up to a month of use to really notice the Topre difference; that was my experience getting a 86UB.

Retraining muscle memory is often overlooked when reviewing keyboards.  My general rule of thumb is that unless something is truly horrid you can't fully determine how well a new board/switch will work for you without at least a week of decent use (i.e. workplace use).  More is better, of course, but I see so many people take a look at a Cherry MX based board, tap a couple of keys or at most type out a sentence, conclude "meh" and go back to their crappy rubber dome keyboard because it has volume keys and they prize that above all.

[Surly73]

have you tried 55g? +_+
i tried variable and i did NOT like it at all . was way too mushy. then I decided to give 55g uniform a try and loved it.
by far my favorite switch.

I found the opposite  I had a RF 55g and on short test drives I thought it was amazing, but using it all day at the office didn't work well for me.  I found that bottoming out had a "buzzy" feeling to it, and I never built up a good, smooth, flowing high speed typing style with it.  A kind of fatigue seemed to build in my finger tips and despite trying to acclimate to it I always felt more like my fingers were stabbing at the switches to overcome the tactility instead of flowing like they do on a Cherry brown board.  My daily driver for years prior at the office was a model M, so it isn't the 55g weighting that was the issue.  It's something else.  I've been using an 86U variable at the office for about three weeks now.  I still notice the "buzzy" bottom out but it's much less pronounced with lighter switches.  Other than the occasional "aaaaa" I quite like it.

[Squelos]

I hope im going to put my hands on a 45g. This seems pretty nice to me. My cherry blues are slightly too heavy for me, so 45g must be perfect.

[Typhaeon]

All I can say is that a numpadless model isn't really worth $70-80 more than a full-sized board.  Other than that, pick whatever you please in terms of switch weighting, etc.

[daerid]

The 45g board is absolutely sublime

[Autolyze]

I just got a 55g 87UW in the mail today as a slightly late birthday present to myself. It's too early to say whether I prefer it or the 45g weighting, although I really like typing on both of them. I was expecting the difference between the two to be more noticeable, along the lines of MX brown vs MX clear, and I was a little disappointed at first, but after spending some time on it I can easily feel the extra force required for the 55g board.

[daerid]

I just wish they had the black ones in stock!

[snarlingchicken]

A bunch of 10 year anniversary special edition Realforce 87s just hit Leopold Korea. http://www.leopold.co.kr/?doc=cart/item.php&it_id=1317180063
The OP should get these and see if it changes his mind mind :3 (Albeit this is probably just another trendy/troll thread)

[Aranair]

I wish google translate developed some technology to translate text in images, or just translate better in general-.-

[limmy]

10th anniversary model has different
1. key caps (grey and blue)
2. casing color (dark navy)
3. led (red)
and comes in three different versions: variable, silent variable, and 55g

You can see more pictures here1, here2, and here3 I personally like the color choices. Whites are too bright, blacks are too dark. Grey are nice and blue keys go pretty well with grey.

Leopolds used to give extras such as colored key caps when they launched the anniversary model, but they are not providing the extras in the second round sale. You can see what they offered when they launched the sale here (they offered RGB modifier keys, some colored function row keys, lavender wasd keys, and some cleaning supply)

Please be patient when you click on the links because KBDMania limits bandwidth on the traffic outside Korea due to operating cost reasons. I don't like it, but I am not paying for the cost, so I am not in the position of complaining I guess..

[Surly73]

10th anniversary model has different
1. key caps (grey and blue)
2. casing color (dark navy)
3. led (red)
and comes in three different versions: variable, silent variable, and 55g

You can see more pictures here1, here2, and here3 I personally like the color choices. Whites are too bright, blacks are too dark. Grey are nice and blue keys go pretty well with grey.

I have to say I'm pretty ga-ga for the Anniversary edition grey caps on a black Realforce.  The blue is nice but I can live without it.  I generally like my computing stuff black but the black RFs look completely blank in the lighting levels in which I usually use computers.  The anniversary grey caps are a great option.  I wish you didn't need to get a super-elite special edition board ordered from the Orient just to get them though.

[captain]

Even posted as 5th, well played.

What is the significance of fifth?

[limmy]

I have to say I'm pretty ga-ga for the Anniversary edition grey caps on a black Realforce.  The blue is nice but I can live without it.  I generally like my computing stuff black but the black RFs look completely blank in the lighting levels in which I usually use computers.  The anniversary grey caps are a great option.  I wish you didn't need to get a super-elite special edition board ordered from the Orient just to get them though.

Here is how the grey caps look like when you put them on black RF.
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image courtesy of KKH of KBDMania, source

I prefer blue keys when mixed with grey, but you may like the looks of grey + black combination.

It is already hard to get in Korea. I heard they are sold out pretty quickly... However, I think more colors will be available in the future as long as keyboard market grows.

[Surly73]

Here is how the grey caps look like when you put them on black RF.

Sure, the blue is more attractive, but the standard grey will fly under the radar in an office yet be functional and stylish.  The default 10th anniversary colour layout screams "non-standard expensive keyboard".    Of course some people want that.....

[sam113101]

What is the significance of fifth?

He did that same exact post in a similar thread, and it was the fifth post.

[Mazora]

I dont like my RF either, but I paid so much for it that I'll use it forever.

[hxu1]

there's an interest check for 10th anniversary edition in classified

[whiskerBox]

So I was trying to give it a couple of weeks before I made any judgement on the Topre switches, but after a week with my new hhkb I am in love. At first I wasn't that impressed with the switches because I thought it was too subtle of a difference. Now I just love the switches they feel snappy and responsive and very smooth. It also fits perfectly over the keyboard on my macbook.

[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ] 46787[/ATTACH]

[birthdaymonkey]

I just got my first Topre today. Realforce 87 45g. It's definitely different from my Das Silent and WASD with blues... still to early to tell. Hard to believe I just spent so much money on it. A year ago, I was a mech virgin, now I've got three of the bloody things, each more expensive than the last. The cancer advances rapidly.

[daerid]

I just got my first Topre today. Realforce 87 45g. It's definitely different from my Das Silent and WASD with blues... still to early to tell. Hard to believe I just spent so much money on it. A year ago, I was a mech virgin, now I've got three of the bloody things, each more expensive than the last. The cancer advances rapidly.

I bought the same board, and went through the same thing. However, after 3 weeks on this thing, I f'ing LOVE it, and find it difficult to use any of my Cherry MX boards anymore.

[Awful]

Just wanted to mention, this was a joke. I've never tried a Topre.

[fossala]

Just wanted to mention, this was a joke. I've never tried a Topre.

That is obvious because if you tried a HHKB there is no way you would be using mx switches still.

[Aranair]

That is obvious because if you tried a HHKB there is no way you would be using mx switches still.

That's abit extreme:p

I am one who didn't really like the stiffness of hhkb:p

[fossala]

That's abit extreme:p

I am one who didn't really like the stiffness of hhkb:p

If a HHKB is stiff, your fingers need to work out on a model M for a while.

[captain]

I actually like ALL of the above. I do wish that they all had the same layout though. Moving tilde and backslash may spell the end of HHKB on my desk.

[rainb1ood]

As a fan of MX Browns and curious about the Topre switch, which should I consider between 55g and 45g?

[Aranair]

If a HHKB is stiff, your fingers need to work out on a model M for a while.

Yeah, I'm an extremely light typer..and I get the fingertip 'buzz'/fatigue feeling that some others have described in other forums (can't remember which honestly)..

I must admit, short periods of typing on the hhkb is quite satisfying and sometimes I do miss the solidness.

But! I won't go so far to calling it the best experience, at least just for me. (I should borrow a realforce and try to see if its the same soon)

[Autolyze]

As a fan of MX Browns and curious about the Topre switch, which should I consider between 55g and 45g?

I think I would have to say that the 45g feels closer to MX Browns if that's what you're looking for. Both the 45g and 55g are great, and it really depends on whether you feel like something lighter and smoother or something heavier and more tactile (keeping in mind that the tactile part is quite a bit different from how MX Browns are tactile).

[Daniel Beardsmore]

As a fan of MX Browns and curious about the Topre switch, which should I consider between 55g and 45g?

I suspect browns are around 35 g in Topre terms. Topre is a dome switch, meaning that the actuation force is concentrated on a single point close to the top of the stroke, the same as Acer, ALPS, Monterey etc. This means that you have to develop that 45 g force in one sharp push before the key will even move. MX browns have this point at mid travel and it's far less pronounced, so it feels softer – your finger can accelerate the switch over the hump, instead of needing to hammer it.

A brand new 45 g Topre feels horribly stiff and tiring compared to browns, and my MX blue seems impossibly light in comparison. Now that I'm used to Topre though (35/45/55 variable) I find it to be as light as browns, so it will be interesting to compare once I get my MX brown keyboard back how much lighter that is still.

Force curve is everything. The smooth force curve is why buckling spring is so usable, while XM ALPS are so wretched, despite both being of similar weight.

That said, once you've got used to Topre, it will be as annoyingly light as browns despite being heavier. But that might be because my keyboard at home is temporarily an Acer (think XM ALPS) while I get my MX blue FILCO fixed … stupid thing needs fingers like jackhammers to type on it ;-)

[rainb1ood]

Thanks Autolyze and Daniel for your thoughts and fulfilling my curiosity.

Time to save for a 45g Realforce then

[Aranair]

I suspect browns are around 35 g in Topre terms. Topre is a dome switch, meaning that the actuation force is concentrated on a single point close to the top of the stroke, the same as Acer, ALPS, Monterey etc. This means that you have to develop that 45 g force in one sharp push before the key will even move. MX browns have this point at mid travel and it's far less pronounced, so it feels softer – your finger can accelerate the switch over the hump, instead of needing to hammer it.

A brand new 45 g Topre feels horribly stiff and tiring compared to browns, and my MX blue seems impossibly light in comparison. Now that I'm used to Topre though (35/45/55 variable) I find it to be as light as browns, so it will be interesting to compare once I get my MX brown keyboard back how much lighter that is still.

Force curve is everything. The smooth force curve is why buckling spring is so usable, while XM ALPS are so wretched, despite both being of similar weight.

That said, once you've got used to Topre, it will be as annoyingly light as browns despite being heavier. But that might be because my keyboard at home is temporarily an Acer (think XM ALPS) while I get my MX blue FILCO fixed … stupid thing needs fingers like jackhammers to type on it ;-)

Mmm I guess that could be why I felt more fatigue overall on the hhkb compared to browns. Is it really possible to adjust to top pressure vs more constant pressure on mx switches? Mm it's almost not possible to not bottom out on the topres:/

[GS88]

Until a few days ago I never heard about mechanical keyboards.. now the problem is I need a new keyboard, and I want it to be a good one. But for making a choice I want to test it first.
Are there in the Netherlands any stores where you can try keyboards like Filco and Realforce? (Cherry MX Blue/Brown or Topre.. i'm really curious about which one is good/better). The keyboard i have now is a real crappy one (something like -> this <- what was I thinking?) :mmph:

[insilica]

Just wanted to mention, this was a joke. I've never tried a Topre.

I'm glad someone at least spotted you very early on.

troll

How can you not like Topre

[Squelos]

Are we saying we need 35g topre's ?

[J-P]

I work as an editor so I type a hell of a lot. I used model-M space saver for years, but switched to a split Fujitsu (rubber dome) keyboard for a long time (around 6 years?), it was a very nice rubber dome keyboard.

Like or don't like - it's all personal opinion. I personally like the 'thunk, thunk' feel of the Topre domes and the weighty feel of the keycaps. Plus I don't have to sound like Mr.Clicky mcClick-Click all day.

I started using a Topre 105 (uk layout) with variable weight about 5 months or so ago and I can tell you without a doubt, that It's one of the most comfortable keyboards I've used when having to type all day (not to mention having the best build quality by far). For someone who types all the time, it is worth the money (sub £200) this keyboard will be functional for years to come. I'll keep my cherry mx blue keyboards too - I love the layout of the cherry MX blue poker, as it's very portable and significantly cheaper... but I wouldn't want to type all day on it.

but yah - I dunno about HHKB pro , maybe when I have a spare few hundred dollars I'll try one.

[o2dazone]

That is obvious because if you tried a HHKB there is no way you would be using mx switches still.

This is actually really interesting. Aside from paying premium for a very limited pool of keycaps, Topre switch keyboards aren't very customizable. Look at all the cool things you can do with Cherry boards:

HUGE selection of keycaps
Switch internal swapping, ghetto reds, ergo clears
Silencing mods (there's only one for Topre, and its only been done once afaik)
3rd party aluminum cases

Not to mention there are other perks like availability, price, and 'easy to exercise' warranty. HHKB's and Realforces may feel like the holy grail to some, but it's all personal preference. If you want your board to look like a frankenstein, with a mix of cool novelty keycaps, partial GB sets and whatever else, Topre is probably not for you. If you want to tinker with your board for hours and hours, Topre is probably not for you. If you want a board that just exudes "MECHANICAL", Topre is probably not for you. If you want a buttery switch that you never have to think about, worry about being too loud, or changing in feeling for a few years, Topre is probably for you.

[sam113101]

Do topre rubber domes stiffen faster than cherry mx switches (the non-linear ones) lose their tactile feedback?