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Offline Danny356

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What color?
« on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 02:52:47 »
What color blank key cap would show the least noticeable amount of shine/wear? Would be in a well lit office type of environment.
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Offline Alessandro

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Re: What color?
« Reply #1 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 03:36:47 »
White usually. And some shades of grey.

Black is usually the most noticeable for shine.
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Offline rowdy

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Re: What color?
« Reply #2 on: Sat, 01 September 2012, 22:01:13 »
Wouldn't that depend more on the key cap material than the colour?
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline karljs

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Re: What color?
« Reply #3 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 13:34:04 »
Quote from: Alessandro on Sat, 01 September 2012, 03:36:47
White usually. And some shades of grey.

Black is usually the most noticeable for shine.

I have some white keycaps from WASD and they definitely shine. I'm really just guessing, but grey or beige might be better.
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: What color?
« Reply #4 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 15:52:01 »
Just polish them all and make them all shine.  Problem solved.
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Offline longweight

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Re: What color?
« Reply #5 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 17:04:34 »
All colours will become shiny as they all start out matte and end up smooth.
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Offline Rafen

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Re: What color?
« Reply #6 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:28:33 »
I would think that white would be the least noticeable and darker colors would show shine the most.
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Offline sth

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Re: What color?
« Reply #7 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37 »
PBT colored.
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Offline thegunner100

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Re: What color?
« Reply #8 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:53:56 »
Agreed, just go PBT and you won't have to worry about shines for a while.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: What color?
« Reply #9 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02 »
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: What color?
« Reply #10 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 22:19:47 »
Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.

White reflects more light than black, so the gradient is smaller and the shine is less noticeable.
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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: What color?
« Reply #11 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 23:12:08 »
Quote from: PointyFox on Sun, 02 September 2012, 22:19:47
Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.

White reflects more light than black, so the gradient is smaller and the shine is less noticeable.

what gradient, lol that's making stuff up right there.  :p

Maybe color constancy plays a role.  :-*
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: What color?
« Reply #12 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 00:42:03 »
Quote from: tp4tissue on Sun, 02 September 2012, 23:12:08
Quote from: PointyFox on Sun, 02 September 2012, 22:19:47
Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.

White reflects more light than black, so the gradient is smaller and the shine is less noticeable.

what gradient, lol that's making stuff up right there.  :p

Maybe color constancy plays a role.  :-*

(These take into account only light in the axis of concern)

Light reflected = total incident light - light scattered due to surface roughness - light absorbed
difference between shine reflection and non shine reflection =  ABS [ (light scattered due to surface shine - light scattered due to surface roughness) ]
Light gradient = difference between shine reflection and non shine reflection / light reflected 

Here, "light reflected" will be higher for white and lower for black due to less light being absorbed.
That results in a smaller difference between shine and no shine areas on white in relation to a higher reflected light total.

Q.E.D.
« Last Edit: Mon, 03 September 2012, 00:43:54 by PointyFox »
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: What color?
« Reply #13 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 20:35:24 »
Quote from: PointyFox on Sun, 02 September 2012, 22:19:47
Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.

White reflects more light than black, so the gradient is smaller and the shine is less noticeable.
So you think it's the differing albedo? I like you way of putting it as a lesser colour gradient. The terminology quite fits.

If one had a green-lit room (think thesoulhunter), then green keycaps might be better than white
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Offline rowdy

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Re: What color?
« Reply #14 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 20:42:32 »
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline PointyFox

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Re: What color?
« Reply #15 on: Mon, 03 September 2012, 22:34:35 »
Quote from: dorkvader on Mon, 03 September 2012, 20:35:24
Quote from: PointyFox on Sun, 02 September 2012, 22:19:47
Quote from: dorkvader on Sun, 02 September 2012, 20:24:02
Quote from: sth on Sun, 02 September 2012, 18:29:37
PBT colored.
PBT is my favourite color.

I don't mind shiny keycaps: Reminds me of my Selectric typewriter: Old School!

The reason I think white is less noticeable shiny is because shine or glare is normally bright white, and it'd blend it better to the already white keycaps, as opposed to the black keycaps, which would contrast to it. That's my theory, anyway.

White reflects more light than black, so the gradient is smaller and the shine is less noticeable.
So you think it's the differing albedo? I like you way of putting it as a lesser colour gradient. The terminology quite fits.

If one had a green-lit room (think thesoulhunter), then green keycaps might be better than white

Yes, differing albedo.  Higher albedo will produce a higher "noise floor" for the shine/no-shine gradient and make it less noticeable.

If the walls are green and the key caps are green, green light reflecting off the walls will then reflect again off the key caps, but not be absorbed as much as other colors.
This would decrease the "light absorbed" value which would increase the "light reflected" value.  If the light reflected is increased, the light gradient would be decreased and the relative difference of the shine versus no shine would be decreased and shine would not be as noticeable. 

« Last Edit: Mon, 03 September 2012, 22:39:48 by PointyFox »
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Offline rowdy

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Re: What color?
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 04 September 2012, 22:47:22 »
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"Because keyboards are accessories to PC makers, they focus on minimizing the manufacturing costs. But that’s incorrect. It’s in HHKB’s slogan, but when America’s cowboys were in the middle of a trip and their horse died, they would leave the horse there. But even if they were in the middle of a desert, they would take their saddle with them. The horse was a consumable good, but the saddle was an interface that their bodies had gotten used to. In the same vein, PCs are consumable goods, while keyboards are important interfaces." - Eiiti Wada

NEC APC-H4100E | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED red | Ducky DK9008 Shine MX blue LED green | Link 900243-08 | CM QFR MX black | KeyCool 87 white MX reds | HHKB 2 Pro | Model M 02-Mar-1993 | Model M 29-Nov-1995 | CM Trigger (broken) | CM QFS MX green | Ducky DK9087 Shine 3 TKL Yellow Edition MX black | Lexmark SSK 21-Apr-1994 | IBM SSK 13-Oct-1987 | CODE TKL MX clear | Model M 122 01-Jun-1988

Ị̸͚̯̲́ͤ̃͑̇̑ͯ̊̂͟ͅs̞͚̩͉̝̪̲͗͊ͪ̽̚̚ ̭̦͖͕̑́͌ͬͩ͟t̷̻͔̙̑͟h̹̠̼͋ͤ͋i̤̜̣̦̱̫͈͔̞ͭ͑ͥ̌̔s̬͔͎̍̈ͥͫ̐̾ͣ̔̇͘ͅ ̩̘̼͆̐̕e̞̰͓̲̺̎͐̏ͬ̓̅̾͠͝ͅv̶̰͕̱̞̥̍ͣ̄̕e͕͙͖̬̜͓͎̤̊ͭ͐͝ṇ̰͎̱̤̟̭ͫ͌̌͢͠ͅ ̳̥̦ͮ̐ͤ̎̊ͣ͡͡n̤̜̙̺̪̒͜e̶̻̦̿ͮ̂̀c̝̘̝͖̠̖͐ͨͪ̈̐͌ͩ̀e̷̥͇̋ͦs̢̡̤ͤͤͯ͜s͈̠̉̑͘a̱͕̗͖̳̥̺ͬͦͧ͆̌̑͡r̶̟̖̈͘ỷ̮̦̩͙͔ͫ̾ͬ̔ͬͮ̌?̵̘͇͔͙ͥͪ͞ͅ

Offline posthaste

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Re: What color?
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 10:35:17 »
Those old white/beige IBM Model M keyboards were very resistent to that kind of wear.  Apple also made a full-size white (heavy-duty) keyboard back in the early '90s that never shined up no matter how much I pounded on it.
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Offline dorkvader

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Re: What color?
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:33:48 »
Quote from: posthaste on Thu, 06 September 2012, 10:35:17
Those old white/beige IBM Model M keyboards were very resistent to that kind of wear.  Apple also made a full-size white (heavy-duty) keyboard back in the early '90s that never shined up no matter how much I pounded on it.
'cause the Apple Extended keyboard and the IBM keyboards both used PBT keycaps.

That's why "pbt coloured" keycaps don't shine.
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Offline sth

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Re: What color?
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 20:34:47 »
i should take a picture of my AEKII. the case is disgusting but the keys are sparkling white.
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Offline posthaste

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Re: What color?
« Reply #20 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 21:15:51 »
For old time's sake:

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Offline sth

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Re: What color?
« Reply #21 on: Thu, 06 September 2012, 22:38:08 »
that one actually looks pretty decent. the body on mine is very yellow.
in related news i got an imate in the mail so i might actually start using my aek!
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Offline TheSoulhunter

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Re: What color?
« Reply #22 on: Thu, 24 January 2013, 04:50:11 »
@PointyFox
Are involved in some sort of image/video processing/compression development by chance?
Just asking because your way of explaining this things sound so familiar to me... >.>
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Offline Rapid

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Re: What color?
« Reply #23 on: Fri, 25 January 2013, 06:13:49 »
Quote from: Alessandro on Sat, 01 September 2012, 03:36:47
White usually. And some shades of grey.

Black is usually the most noticeable for shine.


All 50 shades of grey work
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Offline PointyFox

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Re: What color?
« Reply #24 on: Sat, 26 January 2013, 02:21:17 »
Quote from: TheSoulhunter on Thu, 24 January 2013, 04:50:11
@PointyFox
Are involved in some sort of image/video processing/compression development by chance?
Just asking because your way of explaining this things sound so familiar to me... >.>

Nope!
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Offline noisyturtle

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Re: What color?
« Reply #25 on: Sat, 26 January 2013, 02:27:31 »
A deep hue of off-auburn periwinkle with a cream wine lime base.
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Offline Halverson

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What color?
« Reply #26 on: Sat, 26 January 2013, 02:29:29 »
Quote from: noisyturtle on Sat, 26 January 2013, 02:27:31
A deep hue of off-auburn periwinkle with a cream wine lime base.

Made me lol
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