Author Topic: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video  (Read 8284 times)

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 04:10:17 »
Hi guys, not sure how many of you guys are also computer hardware guru's instead of just keyboards, but I removed the IHS off my IB processor and thought I'd share this "tutorial" video and results.

I got a huge 40°C lower on one of the cores . If I average temps from all cores before and after the mod, then it's 79.25°C before IHS removal, and 59°C after IHS removal. That's still 20°C average difference, which is quite amazing. I just got a really bad chip out of the box. It couldn't even run stock voltages because one of the cores hits over 100°C. After undervolting to 1.07v @ 4ghz OC, one of the cores still hit 98°C, so this mod was pretty much required for me to get good temps.

Go to the actual youtube page for description, or an index to jump round because the video is pretty long (22min)


Offline Matt3o

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #1 on: Sun, 02 September 2012, 05:16:01 »
you could have better asked for a replacement :) great mod by time way!

I've heard that with this technique temps tend to get higher over time, though. Can you confirm?

Offline Calade

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #2 on: Wed, 12 September 2012, 16:22:50 »
Those results sound very good! I just got an Ivy-based rig myself, which is running inside an oven they also call the Lian-Li Q25. Getting near-90°C load temps in games with the stock cooler (probably partly because my top case fan is not yet operational), so I bought a Corsair H60 for it now. Been also thinking of going through the delidding process, but I don't really want to void the warranty yet which I'm quite sure this does. Gotta see how the H60 performs, though. I might just have to delid for reasonable temps anyways.

This has also gotten me to think of an even more extreme solution. Have you heard of anyone running an Ivy WITHOUT the IHS? You would probably at least need a modded cooler for this purpose so that it would reach down all the way to the die.

Really nice video, though!
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 September 2012, 05:58:56 by Calade »

Offline RickyJ

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #3 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 01:25:42 »
I had been wondering if people were replacing the paste under the IHS on these, I remember the concerns when they first came out.

I didn't see you clean the die or the IHS with isopropanol or acetone. Sad panda. :(

Thanks for the vid, great results!
« Last Edit: Thu, 13 September 2012, 01:30:44 by RickyJ »
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #4 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 01:28:33 »
At stock speeds/voltage I idle at ~40°C. In game, it's about ~52°C after ~2 hours of solid playing. BTW I have a H50
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Offline jwaz

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #5 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 10:51:14 »
Great video WFD, this makes me a little apprehensive about buying a new IB cpu...

Offline rayuki

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #6 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 10:53:13 »
Hi guys, not sure how many of you guys are also computer hardware guru's instead of just keyboards, but I removed the IHS off my IB processor and thought I'd share this "tutorial" video and results.

I got a huge 40°C lower on one of the cores . If I average temps from all cores before and after the mod, then it's 79.25°C before IHS removal, and 59°C after IHS removal. That's still 20°C average difference, which is quite amazing. I just got a really bad chip out of the box. It couldn't even run stock voltages because one of the cores hits over 100°C. After undervolting to 1.07v @ 4ghz OC, one of the cores still hit 98°C, so this mod was pretty much required for me to get good temps.

Go to the actual youtube page for description, or an index to jump round because the video is pretty long (22min)


you can't say your a true CPU nerd until you have been challenged to a game of CPU WARS


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Offline CKTofu

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #7 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 10:57:22 »
I removed the IHS on my 3770K as soon as I got it. I'm waiting on my Liquid Ultra to come in before I get to overclocking, and am currently using AS-5, which I probably have on a little too thick, because it's Prime95 load is around 60-65 Celsius. I'm going to target 4.5 GHz for my overclock.
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Offline WRXChris

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #8 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 11:16:07 »
I still can't understand why for IB intel switched from using fluxless solder for the IHS to cheapo thermal paste.  Maybe they were seeing an increase in warranty claims due to the awesome overclockability of SB and since they can't tell if the chip was overclocked they decided to gimp IB by forcing you to physically mod it thus voiding warranty to achieve a decent OC?

Offline xJaPx

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #9 on: Thu, 13 September 2012, 11:39:40 »
you can't say your a true CPU nerd until you have been challenged to a game of CPU WARS


keen?

ihave a deck, just no1 to play with ahhaah
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Offline rayuki

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #10 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 16:09:37 »
you can't say your a true CPU nerd until you have been challenged to a game of CPU WARS


keen?

ihave a deck, just no1 to play with ahhaah

lol thats epic we should do a skype game :P

take it in the office i managed to nerd up a few colleagues into playing.

Offline SmallFry

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #11 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 18:11:09 »
Wow, never would I attempt that mod... Great idea though!

Offline damorgue

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #12 on: Fri, 14 September 2012, 18:18:40 »
I never dared to do it to any new CPU I got. I have however done it a couple of older CPUs and OC them as far as I could. I ran the coolers directly against the die, and yes, I have broken a die because of their vulnerability to mounting force. I knew that risk and only cracked old worthless CPUs.

Kudos to the ones who dare to do it, in this case there were some huge improvements even by just replacing the TIM. I suppose it is safer since you keep the IHS, but without the soft black rubber along the edge, perhaps it could press harder at the die still?

Offline ontherx

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 18 September 2012, 07:24:55 »
My 3570k hasn't been too stellar for clocking. I'm *thinking* about doing this...I'm not too savy with fiddling with voltage, and I know simply messing with "+/-" offset won't be sufficient, because at 4.6ghz I was pushing 1.4V which is insane. I throttled it down to 4.4 for now. Running an H100 and temps weren't too ideal running prime95 for 30+ mins. Might re-apply paste. With a microcenter around the corner...$190 for a new chip might be worth the risk. I mean, cmon guys $190 for your CPU, when you're all spending how much for keyboards? ;) 

Securing the lid using the mobo scares me. Those temps look good though....

Offline mkawa

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 18 September 2012, 10:04:28 »
considering doing this because i am insane

want yields to improve first though

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #15 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 17:58:12 »
I forgot about this thread for a while. Overall, I think you guys are pansies being too scared to do this haha. There's really not that much risk. But then again, this is a keyboard forum and not a computer hardware mod forum. Main forum I'm on is xtremesystems.org, where this kind of stuff is child's play.


I've heard that with this technique temps tend to get higher over time, though. Can you confirm?
Ok so it's been almost 2 months since I've done this mod, I just tested temps again with the same parameters, and it's about 1°C higher on all cores with ambient 1°C lower. So there is some change in temps, but right now that delta is too small to conclude anything. It might be within margin of error, or it could be actual increase in temps.


This has also gotten me to think of an even more extreme solution. Have you heard of anyone running an Ivy WITHOUT the IHS? You would probably at least need a modded cooler for this purpose so that it would reach down all the way to the die.
Doing this mod is fairly easy and straight forward. But trying to cool the chip without the IHS is where it will get complicated. True that leaving the IHS off eliminates another thermal obstacle, but here are some reasons why you should put it back on:

1) Bare die is fragile and could crack under high pressure.
2) Many aftermarket coolers, waterblocks, and stock coolers are shimmed to a certain height, so removing the IHS might cause the die to not even touch the cooler base.
3) Provides high surface area for heat to transfer to the cooler's base. Direct-touch type coolers REQUIRE a certain amount of surface area.
4) You'll need to mod the CPU socket on the motherboard if the IHS is not put back. The retention bracket will get in the way, so you'll have to remove the whole thing. However, removing this bracket system means you'll have to find some custom way to mount the cooler on.


I didn't see you clean the die or the IHS with isopropanol or acetone. Sad panda. :(
Yeah, I didn't use isopropyl alcohol to clean it :(. I actually recommended using isopropyl alcohol in my youtube comments, but never did it myself in the video. I didn't have any on my at the moment. Although, in this case I don't think it would have made any difference if I did. The stock paste is so crusty that it just flakes off and left no residue. So cleaning with alcohol or not would have made no difference in temps in this case. If the paste had not dried out like that, I definitely would have spent the time to look for the isopropyl around my house.


I removed the IHS on my 3770K as soon as I got it. I'm waiting on my Liquid Ultra to come in before I get to overclocking, and am currently using AS-5, which I probably have on a little too thick, because it's Prime95 load is around 60-65 Celsius.
Artic Silver-5 was the best... a looong time ago. Now, there are so many other paste that are better. The CL Liquid ultra is one of the best. Have you considered getting CL Liquid Pro instead? Ultra is newer, but the composition is a little different. For this situation, I think Pro might be better. Still, you should be a little more careful when applying both the paste you have because AS5 and liquid metal are both conductive.


Securing the lid using the mobo scares me. Those temps look good though....
Once you lock the retention bracket back on the IHS, you literally won't be able to move it with your hands. It's very secure, and you can see it near the end of the video.

Offline CKTofu

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #16 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 22:06:55 »
Securing the lid using the mobo scares me. Those temps look good though....

Nah, it's really secure. The motherboard bracket hold it just as tightly as before.
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Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #17 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 22:10:47 »
I have none of those high temp issues and im overclocked a fair bit though i did just get my ivy under a month ago idk if they changed anything. 

Offline ontherx

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #18 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 23:09:27 »
Im not too happy with my ivy...i build a friend's computer with a 3570k as well, and he's pushing 4.6 everyday OC on an H80 much easier than mine pulls 4.5 on h100 : /

Running prime95 and realtemp, i was watching some of the cores hitting 90C.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #19 on: Thu, 20 September 2012, 23:58:49 »
Im not too happy with my ivy...i build a friend's computer with a 3570k as well, and he's pushing 4.6 everyday OC on an H80 much easier than mine pulls 4.5 on h100 : /

Running prime95 and realtemp, i was watching some of the cores hitting 90C.
i believe i was running 4.8 on a hyper 212 just before i was going to swap on the H100 i got the mb died and had to rma im waiting to get my 670FTW before i try again with the new parts.

Offline ontherx

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #20 on: Fri, 21 September 2012, 07:24:47 »
on a 3570k or 3770k? 4.8 on air for a 3570k is...pretty impressive. what was your vcore at?  Which mobo are you RMA'ing?

I too have a 670, I went Asus though. Was looking for a non-reference  card and it was one of the better choices at the time. Dumped their crap software though, running EVGA's...

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #21 on: Sat, 22 September 2012, 04:17:30 »
on a 3570k or 3770k? 4.8 on air for a 3570k is...pretty impressive. what was your vcore at?  Which mobo are you RMA'ing?

I too have a 670, I went Asus though. Was looking for a non-reference  card and it was one of the better choices at the time. Dumped their crap software though, running EVGA's...
3570k 1.4v i had to rma the board it was running on asus p877-v LK. Im going to try to achieve that same over clock with the board that just came back and a H100 it was a pretth lucky overclock so idk if ill be able to hit it again.

I went with the ftw because its a full pcb card based off the 680
« Last Edit: Sat, 22 September 2012, 04:19:52 by TheProfosist »

Offline snooze2looze

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #22 on: Sat, 22 September 2012, 12:51:33 »
Lap the CPU.

Offline MonoSky

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 26 September 2012, 01:20:48 »
O_O Interesting

I have almost the same build as TheProfosist and I don't encounter any of these heating issues as well.

I also have a H100 3570K but a lower end but CHEAPER motherboard MSI Z77 G45
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Offline Calade

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 26 September 2012, 06:26:32 »
O_O Interesting

I have almost the same build as TheProfosist and I don't encounter any of these heating issues as well.

I also have a H100 3570K but a lower end but CHEAPER motherboard MSI Z77 G45

CPUs and other components are all individuals and perform differently. And naturally it also depends on case airflow, room temperatures, etc.

Offline mkawa

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #25 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 12:43:10 »
i have a particularly high voltage 3770 (1.2v stock @ load) that i'm going to do this today. lapped the heatsink yesterday and will lap the IHS as soon as i get it off. wish my luck folks!

aaa, i miss that fun of the chase.

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #26 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 12:57:44 »
Lapping the surfaces of the heatsink and top of the IHS was popular a few years ago, but has fadded out nowadays. You'll only see a 1-2C gain, and sometimes it's not even measurable within margins of temp errors. I spent hours lapping back in the days, and it was definitely not worth the time to lap it to mirror finish. Many of the bases of CPU coolers are already flat nowadays, no need to lap them.

mkawa, which cooler are you using?

Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #27 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 13:12:04 »
Lapping the surfaces of the heatsink and top of the IHS was popular a few years ago, but has fadded out nowadays. You'll only see a 1-2C gain, and sometimes it's not even measurable within margins of temp errors. I spent hours lapping back in the days, and it was definitely not worth the time to lap it to mirror finish. Many of the bases of CPU coolers are already flat nowadays, no need to lap them.

mkawa, which cooler are you using?

Well the reason the lapped result usually isn't much better is because the people are doing this by hand.

Properly "machined" a lapped surface usually performs 5-8C better than stock.  Sadly they don't offer this service widely

And on top of that, the cpus aren't really thermally limited in the recent hobbyist iterations.

The overclock insurance is pretty awesome, but it's only worth it if you're willing to push the **** outta the CPU.

I've been running 5ghz on my 2500k since i bought the insurance last month.  Actually hoping it dies, and if it doesn't I could easily kill it with a few weeks of 5.4ghz ;D

Offline mkawa

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #28 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 17:07:15 »
original TR silver arrow (not the badass new one)

i delidded and lapped both surfaces on a surface plate up to 6000 grit. the thermal junction seems demonstrably better, which is good. but the result is just that the silver arrow is really hot now *facepalm*. temps are pretty much the same.

so anyway, if anyone wants to buy a classic silver arrow, let me know. otherwise, i think the result's going to end up being about the same as before i did all that (lol)

oh wait, there is one difference. i can boot into OS at 4.8ghz 1.5v now. damn thing needs even MORE voltage for stability there though.

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #29 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 17:14:25 »
Thermalright does not need lapping, the bases are already flat!

If your CPU cooler feels hotter to the touch, that's actually a good thing because you know more heat is being transferred to the cooler, away from the CPU. You probaby didn't get a large temp reduction because the stock TIM under your IHS was not that bad to begin with. And also, temps is too dependent on which aftermarket TIM you use, your mounting consistencies, and settings in the BIOS.

BTW, 1.5v is very high for only 4.8ghz. You past that efficiency range already.

Offline mkawa

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #30 on: Sun, 30 September 2012, 20:42:12 »
the bases on recent (1156+) TR heatsinks have NOT been flat. company reps say that this is by design, because the IHSes on recent intel chips have been convex, the bases are left slightly concave. however, my feeling is that this is just an excuse to cover for a much more complex situation.

people have been noting for quite a while that as you increase the clamp pressure on eg the silver arrow, the heatsink will start wiggling, and all the pressure imprints i've seen demonstrate good contact at the center only.

anyway, this is moot if you properly flatten both surfaces.

as we both just pointed out, i did decrease the resistance at the thermal junction. however, the reason why i didn't see a big change in the equilibrium temperature is not because the junction was already fine, but because the heatsink/fan combination can't pump heat away fast enough no matter what i do. this is because, as we've both noted several times, i have a high voltage chip, and IB has terrible leakage issues at high voltages.

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Offline tp4tissue

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #31 on: Mon, 01 October 2012, 04:16:21 »
Thermalright does not need lapping, the bases are already flat!

If your CPU cooler feels hotter to the touch, that's actually a good thing because you know more heat is being transferred to the cooler, away from the CPU. You probaby didn't get a large temp reduction because the stock TIM under your IHS was not that bad to begin with. And also, temps is too dependent on which aftermarket TIM you use, your mounting consistencies, and settings in the BIOS.

BTW, 1.5v is very high for only 4.8ghz. You past that efficiency range already.

He might be on "lazy" mode overclocking. Which always require more power.

Offline TheProfosist

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Re: Fixing Ivy Bridge high CPU temps: IHS removal tutorial video
« Reply #32 on: Sun, 04 November 2012, 01:49:35 »
I wouldnt goabove 1.4v on any recent intel cpu especially if your on air.