Author Topic: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?  (Read 12735 times)

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Offline TotalChaos

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How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 14:56:03 »
So I have had my new Cherry Red keyboard for a few days now and have been intentionally not using it to much.  I am trying to train my finger muscles to type properly on it.


When I first got it I kept crashing the keys right down into the steel plate.  My fingers have spent so many years on evil membrane keyboards that required the whole 4mm of travel to activate + they took at least 60g of force.  My poor fingers are just trained all wrong. :(

I have made obvious progress.  I am typing a bit lighter but only if I go very very slooooowly.

I am not allowed to crash the keys.  It causes me horrible pain.  My nerves were destroyed by the impacts of rubber dome over membrane keyboards.  So I hafta train myself to not crash.  But I am getting impatient.  Has anyone used any secret trix to train ur fingers to use less force and only 2-3 mm of travel?

I traditionally have always had excellent reflexes and great fine motor skillz.  You'd think this would be ez 4 me to learn.

p.s Dear God if you are up there listening please please make me a keyboard with a PROPER 6mm or 8mm of travel with actuation at 2mm using a 6mm or 8mm long Cherry Red Spring.  kthanxl8rbye
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #1 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:05:39 »
Just type on it and nothing else for two weeks.  You'll adapt.  WAY over thinking it if you ask me.

Offline esoomenona

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #2 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:09:17 »
metalliqaz is right. You just have to do it and gain experience that way. I don't think it'll even take two weeks and you'll notice you're already adjusting to it.

Offline longweight

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #3 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:09:36 »
Just type.

Offline bace

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #4 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:11:14 »
^^ agreed. Just typing should fix it. Time fixes everything. or not and you will forever be in pain.
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #5 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:11:41 »
Just type on it and nothing else for two weeks.

My general plan is to type on only Cherry Reds forever and ever.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline daerid

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #6 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:52:54 »
Then just do it. You'll adapt to whatever you use, exclusively.

Hell, I can barely even type properly on any Cherry MX boards, I've been using Topres for so long.

Offline keyboardlover

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #7 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:57:26 »
I did a combination of Finger Crunches, Finger Pushups and C*ck Pushups.

Offline jdcarpe

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #8 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 15:59:24 »
Or you could train on a board with MX Browns. Get to where you just actuate the switch at the tactile bump. Then switch to reds. That's how I learned. I still don't mind browns at all. After reds, they are my second favorite.

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Offline keyboardlover

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #9 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 16:04:13 »
Yea...fortunately I can only do one. ;)

Offline Binge

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #10 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 16:21:56 »
Linear switches make me feel more excited than when I use switches with tactile bumps... it's like the floor disappeared and my fingers are falling.
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Offline Polymer

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #11 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 16:42:51 »
I am not allowed to crash the keys.  It causes me horrible pain.  My nerves were destroyed by the impacts of rubber dome over membrane keyboards.  So I hafta train myself to not crash.  But I am getting impatient.  Has anyone used any secret trix to train ur fingers to use less force and only 2-3 mm of travel?


Not sure if you're exaggerating your situation or not..but if bottoming out is causing you actual nerve pain, you should definitely look at adding o-rings to your keyboard or pads...They will actually give you slightly less travel but the impact will be far less harsh to your fingers when you bottom out....


Offline metafour

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #13 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 18:54:13 »
So, How many cock pushups can you guys do??

An infinite amount.

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #14 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 19:47:01 »
always count on tp4tissue for the troll post.

Offline noisyturtle

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #15 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 20:51:10 »
First find your center young grasshopper, be one with your fingers as if they move without thought or effort. Gliding across the caps like a cheetah on a pond of thin ice. If you bottom out you must punish yourself, padawan. 30 lashes from a braided cable. Learn you will.

Offline daerid

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #16 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 21:21:40 »
I don't understand how you can get actual nerve damage from rubber dome keyboards. I was on them for over a decade straight and suffered no ill effects. The only thing that I can think of is poor typing technique.

Offline Hyde

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #17 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 21:32:29 »
LOL I'm typing on one now and I bottom out a lot and it doesn't seem to cause me any pain.  But it's like people said just type on it.  Don't worry about bottoming out, it's not the end of the world and in my opinion it's what makes mechanical keyboard mechanical.

BUT if you're really really picky about it, there are a few choice you can try.

1)  Buy o-rings, they soften the landing.  But at the same time they change the typing feeling a bit too so be warned.
2)  Get thick PBT keycaps.  I personally haven't try them but I suspect the thickness and weight will absorb some of the impact.
3)  Try MX Blacks, maybe you're used to typing really hard so MX Blacks might be more suitable for you.

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Offline 1391401

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #18 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 21:55:21 »
Dude you gotta just take the plunge and do it.  I know it sounds hard.  I know lots of people just talk about doing it but never actually do it.  You need to be one of those people that makes the difference.  You gotta stand up and do what you need to do man.
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Offline metalliqaz

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #19 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 22:50:27 »
I've slammed excessively on all sorts of rubber domes since around 1995.  I bottom out on my MX boards hard.  I have no nerve damage from it, no ill effects at all as far as I can tell.

Offline Sifo

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #20 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 22:57:40 »
Same plus playing Starcraft and the 2nd at 300 and 200 apm respectively. Lots of smashing and crashing for many years.

As for reds... o rings or keep typing slowly and be patient with it seems to be your only options.
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Offline lazerpointer

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #21 on: Tue, 04 December 2012, 23:47:41 »
So I have had my new Cherry Red keyboard for a few days now and have been intentionally not using it to much.  I am trying to train my finger muscles to type properly on it.


When I first got it I kept crashing the keys right down into the steel plate.  My fingers have spent so many years on evil membrane keyboards that required the whole 4mm of travel to activate + they took at least 60g of force.  My poor fingers are just trained all wrong. :(

I have made obvious progress.  I am typing a bit lighter but only if I go very very slooooowly.

I am not allowed to crash the keys.  It causes me horrible pain.  My nerves were destroyed by the impacts of rubber dome over membrane keyboards.  So I hafta train myself to not crash.  But I am getting impatient.  Has anyone used any secret trix to train ur fingers to use less force and only 2-3 mm of travel?

I traditionally have always had excellent reflexes and great fine motor skillz.  You'd think this would be ez 4 me to learn.

p.s Dear God if you are up there listening please please make me a keyboard with a PROPER 6mm or 8mm of travel with actuation at 2mm using a 6mm or 8mm long Cherry Red Spring.  kthanxl8rbye


As people have mentioned, get o-rings for the "crash" to turn into a "thud". Also you want your fingers to be extended more than hammering down into the keys. By extended I mean your hands are slightly "open" when typing, not knuckling up like a gorilla or tarantula. This will reduce the impact on your fingertips.

Now for the "properly typing on reds" --- I like to think of it as this; you have to time your key strokes by muscle memory of distance, not in millimeters or micrometers but by the "feel" which takes practice. To be honest with you, I bottom out the most when I type on Cherry reds the most out of any switch, so this might not be the best switch for you if "crashing" is a problem for you.
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Offline gameaholic

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #22 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 02:02:05 »
I started on cherry mx blacks then went through two buckling spring boards then got one with reds.  I tried 40a o-rings on the reds but I didn't feel like it made that much of a difference.  I liked the reds but I had read a lot of good things about ergo-clear so I had my reds modded to ergo-clear.  I definitely like ergo-clear the best so far for typing.  They kinda remind me of my buckling springs and I feel like I bottom out a lot less because I can press until I feel the tactile click then release.  Over the pass week I have tried these thicker and harder o-rings (70a) and they definitely reduce the shock of bottoming out and feel like they reduce the travel distance. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FMYR48/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00

I plan on getting a board with reds again for gaming and hopefully by then my fingers will be used to the shorter travel distance. 
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Offline Truday

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #23 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 03:21:01 »
LOL I'm typing on one now and I bottom out a lot and it doesn't seem to cause me any pain.  But it's like people said just type on it.  Don't worry about bottoming out, it's not the end of the world and in my opinion it's what makes mechanical keyboard mechanical.

BUT if you're really really picky about it, there are a few choice you can try.

1)  Buy o-rings, they soften the landing.  But at the same time they change the typing feeling a bit too so be warned.
2)  Get thick PBT keycaps.  I personally haven't try them but I suspect the thickness and weight will absorb some of the impact.
3)  Try MX Blacks, maybe you're used to typing really hard so MX Blacks might be more suitable for you.

I want to re-iterate what Hyde posted. PBT keycaps definitely offer more resistance when typing compared to ABS 100%. I would definitely look into that if you're having serious typing issues on reds. O-Rings might work but people either love or hate them, still a viable option. And honestly man Reds are probably the hardest switch to adapt to IMO from membrane or scissor switches. It took me awhile to get used to reds coming from typing on a laptop for years. Browns are typically considered the easiest transition switch from membranes. But uh you have nerve damage from typing? Kind of crazy if you do but I guess you're a button masher possibly? I mean if thats the case then I would recommend returning you're reds for blacks. It seems like you would possibly enjoy a stiffer linear switch. If I didn't game and purely just used my keyboard for typing I would probably go with Browns and possibly Blues. Reds are the best switch for gaming in my opinion, but I don't think they would be a lot of writer's/programmer's first choice. Anyway man my instant advice for you is to give it a month or 2 to adjust. If you still don't like them then return the board or sell it here on GeekHack. I invite you to check out this awesome GH wikipage that outlines all the different types of cherry mx switches so maybe you can get an idea of a switch that you might enjoy more. http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Cherry_MX Good luck!

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Offline WhiteFireDragon

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #24 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 03:48:05 »
OP, practice "float" typing by consciously not hitting the bottom. After a few weeks, you'll get use to it.


PBT keycaps definitely offer more resistance when typing compared to ABS 100%.

This makes no sense. PTB has a different texture and might feel and sound different because of the resonance, but resistance is only dependent on the spring and type of stems.

Offline iri

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #25 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 06:33:50 »
going through boob cloud training now. i do bottom out often, but don't do it hard.  just out of curiosity, how do people type on reds when they get used to it? do they float all the time and never bottom out?
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #26 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 06:46:05 »
I am not allowed to crash the keys.  It causes me horrible pain.  My nerves were destroyed by the impacts of rubber dome over membrane keyboards.  So I hafta train myself to not crash.  But I am getting impatient.  Has anyone used any secret trix to train ur fingers to use less force and only 2-3 mm of travel?


Not sure if you're exaggerating your situation or not.

I am wildly underexaggerating my situation.  However u r imagining my situation to be, I assure you it is horrifically worse.  I didn't see any need to go into gross details and make everyone depressed or not believe me.  If you met me u would be shocked at what a rubber dome over membrane keyboard can do to the human body. :(
 

Quote
.but if bottoming out is causing you actual nerve pain, you should definitely look at adding o-rings to your keyboard or pads...They will actually give you slightly less travel but the impact will be far less harsh to your fingers when you bottom out....
  I already ordered my crashpads.  I will order some O-rings momentarily.

I looooooooooooooooooooooove the feel of these cherry red switches.   :-*

I read so many comments from ppl complaining that they are too easy to accidentally actuate when resting on keyboard.  They feel plenty firm to me.  My advice to such ppl is don't lay your face on ur keyboard :D

I also read msgs from ppl complaining about the wobbliness of the keycaps on the switches.  Yes I can wobble the key back and forth a bit if I do it on purpose.  My fingers are super ultra sensitive.  I can feel the bumpiness in a smooth piece of paper no problem.  But this tiny bit of wobble does not bother me at all.   It almost feels as if this was some sort of mechanical machine.  :p


Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #27 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 06:50:25 »
First find your center young grasshopper, be one with your fingers as if they move without thought or effort. Gliding across the caps like a cheetah on a pond of thin ice. If you bottom out you must punish yourself, padawan. 30 lashes from a braided cable. Learn you will.
:)) ;D :)) ;D :))
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #28 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 07:16:12 »
I don't understand how you can get actual nerve damage from rubber dome keyboards. I was on them for over a decade straight and suffered no ill effects.
I have known ppl who drove thru stop signs for over a decade and suffered no ill effects according to them.  I would invite him on here to tell you about it except he's dead. Auto accident.

I have known ppl who drank alcohol heavily for over a decade and suffered no ill effects according to them.  I would invite him on here to tell you about it except he's dead. Liver failure.


I have known ppl who smoked for over a decade and suffered no ill effects according to them.  We all know they are lying.


Quote
The only thing that I can think of is poor typing technique.
Did you type millions of keystrokes per year?
I typed continuously all day every day.  20 hours a day for 3 years.

The damn rubber domes were very stiff too.  I was used to cherry black and other springloaded switches.  I got tricked into using that damn rubberdome over membrane keyboard.  >:D

Age has something to do with it too.  The younger you are the easier it is for your body to handle damage and irritation.

I know I had bad luck and all.  When u bang ur nerves around u r rolling the dice.

A typical person would just get Tendonitis or Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.
I have met a gazillion young seemingly healthy ppl who have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.  They got it from a wide variety of causes but the point is that is actually sort of easy to wreck your hands.  Especially if you are a workaholic like me.


I rolled the dice.  I lost.  I advise others not to roll the dice.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #29 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 07:29:22 »
I've slammed excessively on all sorts of rubber domes since around 1995.  I bottom out on my MX boards hard.  I have no nerve damage from it, no ill effects at all as far as I can tell.
I personally guarantee that you will wreck your hands before you die if u keep doing that.  Maybe you have good dna and good luck and everything.  Maybe you will make it till you are 65.  Good luck 2 u.  When you are in the doctor's office don't say nobody ever warned you this would happen.

Nobody ever warned me!  Nobody ever told me, oh by the way, your life can end tomorrow if you keep using ur hands like that.

I have met soooooooo many ppl with messed up hands who didn't even type as much as me.  But they moused a lot too.  And mousing causes hand damage too.  Sure they didn't get all destroyed like me but they still had serious hand problems and had to take lots of breaks and go real ez all the time because of their hand damage problem.

For ppl like that a spring-loaded keyboard could do wonders.

Thanx for inspiring to type this msg.  I notice I am typing a little better now!!!!  Lighter and faster!  woo!  ;D
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #30 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 07:44:04 »
Also you want your fingers to be extended more than hammering down into the keys. By extended I mean your hands are slightly "open" when typing, not knuckling up like a gorilla or tarantula. This will reduce the impact on your fingertips.
My fingers are very extended.  It is the only way I can touch type.
My metacarpals are 100% behind the spacebar.  Only my phalanxes are over the keys.


Quote
Now for the "properly typing on reds" --- I like to think of it as this; you have to time your key strokes by muscle memory of distance, not in millimeters or micrometers but by the "feel" which takes practice. To be honest with you, I bottom out the most when I type on Cherry reds the most out of any switch, so this might not be the best switch for you if "crashing" is a problem for you.
I will stick with them for 3 months at least before I give up.  I just hope I don't cause myself another horrible pain attack in the meantime.

I hope my wobbly Rosewill USB connector lasts that long too.

Thanx 4 ur advice.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #31 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 07:47:32 »
I liked the reds but I had read a lot of good things about ergo-clear so I had my reds modded to ergo-clear.  I definitely like ergo-clear the best so far for typing. 
Is there a force graph for ergoclears somewhere?
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #32 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:07:38 »
I want to re-iterate what Hyde posted. PBT keycaps definitely offer more resistance when typing compared to ABS 100%. I would definitely look into that if you're having serious typing issues on reds.
I have read many msgs of ppl saying that.  I ignored it at first.  I thought ppl were just being silly.  I will look into them now.

But if I get them won't they be incompatible to my crashpads?
Won't they be incompatible to my O-rings?

I do not actually have the pads or O-rings yet.

Quote
I invite you to check out this awesome GH wikipage that outlines all the different types of cherry mx switches so maybe you can get an idea of a switch that you might enjoy more. http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Cherry_MX Good luck!

-Truday
Every time I go to the wiki, all the pages I want to read are empty.

I think I found where the force graphs are supposed to be:
Switches:Measurement
There is currently no text in this page.

Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline laffindude

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #33 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:11:04 »
It sounds like you typed a lot incorrectly. It is gonna be tough to break the habit of fingerbanging the keys. If you still have deadlines and stuff, it may not be the best time to try this. Take it slow and type slowly until you can type lighter. Once you get a feel for them, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust. I don't bottom out at all at my normal 3-40wpm composing speed. Which is enough for me since, well I don't need to type at top speed most of the time. Not sure what your day to day speed is, but it would probably help a ton if can put on the brakes for a little while.

Offline keyboardlover

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #34 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:11:52 »






Ancient method:

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #35 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:31:35 »
Once you get a feel for them, it shouldn't be too hard to adjust. I don't bottom out at all at my normal 3-40wpm composing speed.

This gives me great hope!!

Years ago when I was on Cherry Blacks I could type in a relaxed manner and mostly not crash.  But the odd keystroke here or there would.  But I was healthy then and I thought it didn't matter.

But when I was typing fast or got excited I would crash a lot.  So I have my doubts that I could ever type fast again on these silly switches with only 4mm of travel.

 I really just need 8mm of travel using a longer version of a Cherry Red spring and all my probs are solved.  The spring would keep resisting more and more the further I went down.  It would be so easy to not crash.  I don't have arthritis in my fingers but it seems like an 8mm spring would be great for the millions of ppl with arthritis.
 
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #36 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 08:47:08 »
It sounds like you typed a lot incorrectly.

I did type incorrectly.  A rubberdome over membrane keyboard requires a person to type incorrectly.  A rubberdome over membrane keyboard requires a patient to smash one piece of plastic into another using his fingertips. Ugh.  A very clever scam perpetrated by carpal tunnel doctors, no doubt.

They have large taxes on alcohol and cigarettes.  Why not rubberdome over membrane keyboards?  These dumbass keyboards generate many thousands upon thousands of doctor visits every year from unsuspecting dupes.

  I would go to one appointment after another to many different doctors.  Some docs have giant waiting rooms filled with carpal tunnel patients.  It was always a different set of 30 ppl every time I went. WTF?!?  These are young ppl who should not have a chronic hand problem.  How can there be so many ppl with hand problems?  It is easy when you trick people into using rubberdome over membrane keyboards.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline daerid

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #37 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 09:57:34 »
Damn.. sorry man. That was kind of insensitive of me.

I guess I've been lucky.

FWIW, I have been typing pretty consistently since I was about 16 (half my life), doing software development for both work and for hobby (so a looot of typing). Maybe one day it will catch up to me, I'm just thankful it hasn't yet.

Offline gameaholic

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #38 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 11:33:34 »
Tried accupuncture for your pain yet? 


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Offline Hyde

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #39 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 13:28:29 »
I want to re-iterate what Hyde posted. PBT keycaps definitely offer more resistance when typing compared to ABS 100%. I would definitely look into that if you're having serious typing issues on reds.
I have read many msgs of ppl saying that.  I ignored it at first.  I thought ppl were just being silly.  I will look into them now.

But if I get them won't they be incompatible to my crashpads?
Won't they be incompatible to my O-rings?

I do not actually have the pads or O-rings yet.

Quote
I invite you to check out this awesome GH wikipage that outlines all the different types of cherry mx switches so maybe you can get an idea of a switch that you might enjoy more. http://wiki.geekhack.org/index.php?title=Cherry_MX Good luck!

-Truday
Every time I go to the wiki, all the pages I want to read are empty.

I think I found where the force graphs are supposed to be:
Switches:Measurement
There is currently no text in this page.



Most of the PBT keycaps out there should have the same shape as your stock keycaps on Rosewill.  So the o-ring and soft landing pad should be compatible (Make sure you get PBT keycaps for cherry mx switches).  Reason I say PBT because I find with lighter thinner ABS keycaps, when I bottom out the vibration kind of translate to my finger a lot more than if I were using a thicker heavier keycaps.  I did a mini test even just between white and black ABS keycaps.  I notice the black is actually denser and feel comfortable to use.

As for the wiki, well geekhack got hacked at point and the website was down for a few days.  After that a lot of the documents and pictures were lost in the process.  I guess they haven't rebuild the library yet.

In any case if all else fails for mx red, I'd suggest you try mx brown (unless you really really want linear switch then try mx black).  MX brown is actually very similar to red except it has a tiny tactile bump.  But just that bump alone makes typing a lot easier also somehow it creates enough force to stop you from bottom out too hard based on my personal experience.  Also keep in mind mx red took me a month until I can get fully comfortable with it, while brown I got used to it instantly.  For the longest time I prefer to type on brown over red, but lately I think I actually prefer to type on the red now.

Hope this helps  :)

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Offline Sinzz

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #40 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 17:18:39 »
i think the best thing that I did that allowed me to easily learn to not bottom out on Cherry MX reds is to start off using MX blacks. Starting off using blacks trained my fingers to barely press on the keys. Sure they require more force, but when you get used to barely tapping the keys and transition over to reds, you retain the same muscle memory, though you'll have to try just a little bit to press lighter than on the blacks. Blacks are a good stepping stone to Reds IMO.
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Offline TotalChaos

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #41 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 19:57:42 »

Most of the PBT keycaps out there should have the same shape as your stock keycaps on Rosewill.  So the o-ring and soft landing pad should be compatible (Make sure you get PBT keycaps for cherry mx switches).  Reason I say PBT because I find with lighter thinner ABS keycaps, when I bottom out the vibration kind of translate to my finger a lot more than if I were using a thicker heavier keycaps.  I did a mini test even just between white and black ABS keycaps.  I notice the black is actually denser and feel comfortable to use.

If denser and heavier is better then shouldn't I get a set of Zinc keycaps?   They are super heavy.  I was gonna get them before but I figured they would reduce travel some.
Rosewill RK-9000RE #1 (Broke on day 26, fixed with Scotch Tape on day 42, barely holding together)
Rosewill RK-9000RE #2 (Lubed, still in the box.  I am afraid to use it because it will break like the first one)

Offline metalliqaz

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #42 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 20:12:47 »
The Zinc caps are way too heavy for Reds.  If you had reds with the Zinc caps, they would activate by merely touching them.

Offline alaricljs

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #43 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 20:13:26 »
Feng's got the cheapest available sets of PBT available right now on top of which they are thick so are heavier than your typical Ducky PBTs...

Here they are.
Filco w/ Imsto thick PBT
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Offline The_Beast

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #44 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 20:27:06 »
The Zinc caps are way too heavy for Reds.  If you had reds with the Zinc caps, they would activate by merely touching them.

As opposed to smashing keys?
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Offline Hyde

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #45 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 20:47:55 »
The Zinc caps are way too heavy for Reds.  If you had reds with the Zinc caps, they would activate by merely touching them.

lol does that mean if you buy zinc keycaps + MX black it would balance out the force and be lighter to use?

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Offline jdcarpe

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #46 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 21:30:02 »
You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force?
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Offline Glockateer

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #47 on: Wed, 05 December 2012, 23:53:09 »
Oddly this thread inspired me a little. I'm not sure what switch I will use but I'm messing with reds for the first time in a while without bottoming out. My wpm is really high but membranes had me bottom out 100% on every mechanical keyboard I've owned. This is my first time so it'ss a trip how light these mx reds are now...

Anyway, I take it to the next level and am trying to play games without bottoming out which might be impossible in some cases. Blues seem like the best switch for this type of typing, though? Reds are a crazy challenge so far. My typing speed and game performance is majorly suffering right now.

Offline Lu_e

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #48 on: Thu, 06 December 2012, 00:51:38 »
Started on blues: & when you're trying to be ultra quiet on them you go just to the click. Floaty-typing at its most awkward, trying to be quiet with blues! haha.

Then going to reds the lightness is still awkward, but im almost imagining that clicky activation point so its kinda nice.

Just say NO to ABS keycaps

Offline Truday

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Re: How did you train yourself for Cherry Red switches?
« Reply #49 on: Thu, 06 December 2012, 03:53:50 »
OP, practice "float" typing by consciously not hitting the bottom. After a few weeks, you'll get use to it.


PBT keycaps definitely offer more resistance when typing compared to ABS 100%.

This makes no sense. PTB has a different texture and might feel and sound different because of the resonance, but resistance is only dependent on the spring and type of stems.

Yeah I guess I did over exaggerate the difference between PBT and ABS keycaps. However, there is definitely a 100% difference between the feel of typing on ABS and PBTs so much so that you could tell by typing on both blindfolded (kinda obvious I guess sorry  :rolleyes:) But I do think the PBTs add a little bit of resistance when typing. This of course is my opinion and I got that from typing on my Ducky Shine II TKL (returned) with ABS then putting a set of PBTs on there. So you're correct that it's not a gigantic difference like between reds and blacks but there is definitely a difference. I would definitely recommend PBTs over ABS if bottoming out is a frequent occrurance.

-Truday
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