The difficult second keyboard...

[BearManJim]

I treated myself to my first mechanical last October, a QPAD MK-85 (reds). Not my first choice though. I did follow the recommendation on this forum and initially ordered a Cooler Master QuickFire Rapid (reds). The supplier ran out of stock though so I ended up forking out the extra.

On the whole, I'm very pleased with it. Minor issues I've found to-date;

- The num, caps and scroll lock lights are excessively bright - blindingly so.
- The red backlight is rather less welcoming than blue IMO.
- The dark matte finish marks very easily if you have hot sweaty fingers.
- The braided cable can be a bit cumbersome routing it around things.
- The lettering on the keycaps are very dull so require the backlight even in moderate light.
- The included wrist rest didn't support mine well enough (later bought a Kensington gel one instead)
- I'm having to keep my nails super short to minimise discomfort.
- The backlight breathing mode - what's the point?!

I do love using the red switches. Very light and soft. It hasn't helped improve my skills on the battlefield (I'm only a casual gamer mind) but it's so much less frustrating than my dull Clevo laptop keyboard. I love playing in the dark with only the monitor and keyboard lighting up my desk. I also found myself writing excessively long replies to emails from friends. I just felt compelled to keep typing!

BUT... it wasn't long before I began to feel something was missing from the overall experience. A contrasting second keyboard! It only took a month - and there I was thinking you guys were mad for owning multiple keyboards. Apologies! 

Whilst I do find reds lovely, I was prone to making lots of typos - at least initially. Not so such an issue nowadays. I grew increasingly envious though hearing the clicky blues watching various YouTube videos. They appeared to make the typing experience even more fun and addictive?! So that settled it, I'd use the red for gaming/stealth late night typing and blues for work/typing during the day.

I dived in and got QPAD's older MK-80 (blues) instore at YoyoTech in central London. They kindly let me hear the switch in action over the plastic wrap (just in case they were ridiculously loud as some had reported) before committing to the purchase.

Once the initial excitement of the clicky blues and blue backlight wore off, I soon started noticing troubling issues? There seemed to be a lack of consistency in the behaviour of the keys? Within a few days, I discovered two weren't clicking (Y and right CTRL)? They would only do so when pressing from a certain angle? Others would click but didn't sound as loud as others? The tactile feel also wasn't uniform either? Some keys felt nice to push but others had a sort of gritty feeling? Like there was something lodged inside the switch? It's hard to describe.

I returned the keyboard in the end for a refund. It was at that point I experienced the 'cloud of boobs' sensation. Reverting back to my lighter reds, my fingers were literally floating over the keys! Kenny's hallucinations in South Park's cheesing episode came to mind. 

The effect soon wore off though. It wasn't long before I started missing the blues. Whilst still not the perfect typing experience for me (I found them a little heavy), my red board seemed a little boring to use without the blue to contrast it? How ungrateful do I sound?!

So the hunt for a second board continued. The Ducky DK-9008 Shine II looked good but exorbitantly priced? £150 in the UK ($240 US). I wanted to stick with blue backlighting but not at the expense of quality?

Cooler Master's QuickFire TK looked interesting but still no stock yet in the UK for the blues. I'm also wary that it's not built by Costar? But then I'm not sure who to trust any more when I hear about fading Filco keycaps and stabilisers on new keyboards that need re-lubing?

Anyways, I saw the MK-80 appear in stock at Amazon after a long hiatus and so took the plunge again. I was hoping my previous one was just a one-off dud?

It arrived today and it wasn't long before I discovered more non-clicky keys? What the hell? I know some of you aren't fond of the manufacturer iOne (which makes the Xarmor/QPAD models) - perhaps I should've heeded the warnings? Am I right in thinking however they don't actually manufacture the Cherry switches themselves?

So why isn't there any consistency between the blue switches then? Shouldn't all the keys sound and feel identical? Granted, the bigger keys need stabilisers but still... This time it's the asterisk key that isn't clicking. The space bar feels lovely though. Really solid compared to the last one. Contrasting that with the backspace key though... there's no real click coming from that key either?

I don't want to rant but I am disappointed - other than the build quality issues, I love this board. Perhaps they're all this bad though? But then why weren't there more negative responses/reviews? Am I being overly sensitive? I'm also wondering... are blue switches that fragile? Or do they require special care when the keyboard manufacturers get a hold of them? I've read about blowing air into the stem to dislodge dust etc but on a brand new keyboard?

Perhaps it serves me right for being greedy? I should have stayed content with the MK-85 and left it at that? If I was manly enough to buy that HHKB when I was last in Tokyo in '05, maybe I would've never have gone down this backlit/full size route in the first place?

Anyways, I'll give this Mk-80 another day or two and see how I go... One last question. I don't suppose there's a clicky switch out there that sounds like the blue but feels more like the red in terms of weight?

Thanks for reading...

[Lighthouse1]

Not an expert by any means but you might to give the brown switch a try. Not clicky but a middle way. I started with blues on a razor then had a corsair quick fire rapid with brown switches (which scan sell in uk now). I then got a Filco with browns and recently a good value second hand one with blue switches. I work as a developer so spend a lot of time on the keyboard.

I use the blues at home and browns at work where they are less noisy. I find they are a great typing feel though it is the disease of key caps that has caught me and they do make the board feel different. I like the build quality of the quick fire and it goes along really well I'd recommend giving on a go as long as you don't mind the tkl design. I think the browns feel good and you can speed along (typing this on my ipad and missing my keyboard!). I think the less add ons and gaming extras the more solid the board appears to be and the browns feel a good weight.

I'd recommend doing a bit of research on key caps; I have some ds ones and they feel really cool.

[tp4tissue]

Ok, long read there. LOL

Um...

Different switches on the same keyboard may sound slightly different than one another due to various factors

proximity to your ears
how hard you press them
click noise ratio to bottom out noise
keycap size and fit

There's never perfect consistency, and I'm not sure exactly what's bothering you..

the reason keys sound different when hit at different angles is because it would affect the bottom out noise.

And the speed at which you type at between keys also makes a difference because there's perceptual interference between proximal entities of sound.

[sth]

tl;dr get a realforce

[tp4tissue]

tl;dr get a realforce

welll...... idk..... just to go through the motions.. I was very "underwhelmed" when I got my 87u uniform 45..

[sth]

tl;dr get a realforce

welll...... idk..... just to go through the motions.. I was very "underwhelmed" when I got my 87u uniform 45..

y u hate
u r rong

[tp4tissue]

tl;dr get a realforce

welll...... idk..... just to go through the motions.. I was very "underwhelmed" when I got my 87u uniform 45..

y u hate
u r rong

i didn't say h8.. never did...

i said "underwhelmed"  you guys made topre sound like "magic-cakes"  I tried it,  thought it was good, but not magic, more like regular cake...

So as long as the OP goes in expecting cake, and not magic cake... that's ok..

[sth]

[tp4tissue]

I'm neutral, you're the one h8in' on my wisdom.

[Leslieann]

Blues have extra internals, very tiny internals, and they can wiggle around a little. That little movement can effect the sound and feel. Also where they are in relation to the standoffs can change how a key sounds. It's just how it is.

Clears have the same tactile feel, but less noise. Unfortunately they are also stiffer, and not easy to find in a board. Greens are even stiffer, but can be found on a Cm QFR. Switches can be easy or hard to replace depending on the board and average about $1 per key. If you want the sound, blues are your only choice for Cherry switches, however there is also Alps, Topre and of course the IBM Model M, which personally, is the best keyboard ever made for typing with fantastic tactile feel, and a very solid click. I just wish they had softer springs. After using soft Cherry springs I went back to one and by the end of the day my fingers could tell a difference.

Backlit keys are often troublesome, not just in terms of wear, but also if you need to find replacements or want to change some for something you find.

[1391406]

The first Razor Blackwidow I bought a year and a half ago at Frys had inconsistent clicking amongst the (MX Blue) keys. One of the keys didn't click at all, and one or two others didn't sound as consistently clicky as the rest. I went back to the store to exchange it and ended up opening up the boxes and trying out about 5 other Blackwidow's in store before I found one that actually had consistent clickiness and feel across all of the keys. Hence, I believe it's a quality control issue. You might consider trying a different brand.

[tp4tissue]

The first Razor Blackwidow I bought a year and a half ago at Frys had inconsistent clicking amongst the (MX Blue) keys. One of the keys didn't click at all, and one or two others didn't sound as consistently clicky as the rest. I went back to the store to exchange it and ended up opening up the boxes and trying out about 5 other Blackwidow's in store before I found one that actually had consistent clickiness and feel across all of the keys. Hence, I believe it's a quality control issue. You might consider trying a different brand.

I believe the "NON clickers" are when they solder the key too long, and some of the internals get melted/ misaligned.

[BearManJim]

Many thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I discovered one or two more unusual behaviours and decided enough was enough, the keyboard has to go back.

Other than the variable sound/tactile switch issues affecting some keys, one in particular would make two clicky sounds? One at the activation point and then the same clicky sound on release?

...ended up opening up the boxes and trying out about 5 other Blackwidow's in store before I found one that actually had consistent clickiness and feel across all of the keys. Hence, I believe it's a quality control issue. You might consider trying a different brand.

Really appreciate you sharing that. So I'm not going mad then?! I will definitely try a more reputable brand next time.

I believe the "NON clickers" are when they solder the key too long, and some of the internals get melted/ misaligned.

So the welding isn't automated by robots but by hand? I can picture some poor Chinese soul nearing the end of a gruelling shift and falling asleep whilst the iron continues to eat away at a soldering point. Should we petition iOne then to allow their employee's more R&R?

Blues have extra internals, very tiny internals, and they can wiggle around a little. That little movement can effect the sound and feel. Also where they are in relation to the standoffs can change how a key sounds. It's just how it is.

That doesn't fill me with confidence! When I first heard the term 'mechanical keyboards' I perhaps naively equated it to precision engineering? More like adequate engineering then... I guess that's why quality control is such a necessity.

If you want the sound, blues are your only choice for Cherry switches, however there is also Alps, Topre and of course the IBM Model M

There's a clicky Topre switch? I was not aware? The ALPs green might be an option if I can find one in the UK? The same 45g weight as the Cherry red? Is this the elusive magic switch I'm after?

So as long as the OP goes in expecting cake, and not magic cake... that's ok..

Okay, scratch that. There's no such thing as magic. Noted!

Thanks everyone. The quest continues...

[Leslieann]

I believe the "NON clickers" are when they solder the key too long, and some of the internals get melted/ misaligned.

Interesting and very possible theory and probably does explain at least some of them.
I have seen some that work, disassemble it, re-assemble and end up with one that no longer feels tactile as well.

Either way, I think they are fickle switches.

There's a clicky Topre switch? I was not aware? The ALPs green might be an option if I can find one in the UK? The same 45g weight as the Cherry red? Is this the elusive magic switch I'm after?

Sorry, I'm Not sure how clicky a Topre is, I haven't used one.

You also may want to try a set of un-lubed Cherry clears or greens, they aren't as loud as blues, but still quite loud. The stiff springs lets them ring on the return stroke.