blue switches without click

[tp4tissue]

I spoke about this elsewhere, but basically, quality control is a HUGE problem in China.
I know a few who have done manufacturing there and it's like working with the mafia. The phrase "buyer beware" has never been more true.

Basically if you don't specify EXACTLY what you want, for every step of the way, otherwise you can pretty much expect a sub-par product every time. They know it, and they also know that as soon as you leave, another company will be knocking and looking for cheap manufacturing.

You could order a standardized grade 8 bolt, and the manufacturer will buy grade 5 material and label it grade 8, this you expect. However, what often happens is that when the manufacturer asked for grade 5, the supplier sold him grade 3.

Scarily enough, this is actually what has happened in the North American aviation industry. Boxes of these fake bolts got into the supply lines.

Now THAT is something to think about... Not even funny when you think about it...

This is because of the legal system in China...

In China... For the most part, you can't sue the owners of the industries because they essentially own the courts as well.


In the USA you can sue the SHizzznitz out of a dog that barked at you funny...  This is not to say that the RICH doesn't own the court, but the system has become convoluted enough such that you can't get away with as much...

[VesperSAINT]

This is because of the legal system in China...

In China... For the most part, you can't sue the owners of the industries because they essentially own the courts as well.


In the USA you can sue the SHizzznitz out of a dog that barked at you funny...  This is not to say that the RICH doesn't own the court, but the system has become convoluted enough such that you can't get away with as much...

Any comments on the China vs. Taiwan?

[tp4tissue]

This is because of the legal system in China...

In China... For the most part, you can't sue the owners of the industries because they essentially own the courts as well.


In the USA you can sue the SHizzznitz out of a dog that barked at you funny...  This is not to say that the RICH doesn't own the court, but the system has become convoluted enough such that you can't get away with as much...

Any comments on the China vs. Taiwan?

Same country bro... same policies... they can call it a democracy all they want... that doesn't make it true...

Also... China has a very very loose accounting standard...

I have friends that applied for accounting work in China...

Basically,, if you're an accountant who "Don't know" how to cook books, they won't hire you.


The few "male" accountants I've worked with in China are the sleaziest MOFOS on the planet probably..

They pretty much are free to drink and whor3 as much as they want on the government books... Because the budget is ridiculous and nearly infinite with respect to hookers and dining.. You could never spend that much money on basic human urges.

[VesperSAINT]

Same country bro... same policies... they can call it a democracy all they want... that doesn't make it true...

Also... China has a very very loose accounting standard...

I have friends that applied for accounting work in China...

Basically,, if you're an accountant who "Don't know" how to cook books, they won't hire you.

Lol, I wasn't really asking about the political stance of the two countries but more so if Taiwan's manufacturing was the same as Mainland China's in terms of poor quality control but, assuming from your tone, you were answering that simultaneously. Didn't really know about the accounting thing though

[tauburn]

so someone needs to open a switch company that manufactures them in the US. btw i spoke to diatec and they refuse to RMA for this problem or for my number row grinding against the body of the keyboard. they said they would swap out the switches if i send it to tokyo but im waiting to see if they will just send the switches to me.

[tp4tissue]

so someone needs to open a switch company that manufactures them in the US. btw i spoke to diatec and they refuse to RMA for this problem or for my number row grinding against the body of the keyboard. they said they would swap out the switches if i send it to tokyo but im waiting to see if they will just send the switches to me.

Where did you buy, amazon?

[firebt]

Same country bro... same policies... they can call it a democracy all they want... that doesn't make it true...

Also... China has a very very loose accounting standard...

I have friends that applied for accounting work in China...

Basically,, if you're an accountant who "Don't know" how to cook books, they won't hire you.

Lol, I wasn't really asking about the political stance of the two countries but more so if Taiwan's manufacturing was the same as Mainland China's in terms of poor quality control but, assuming from your tone, you were answering that simultaneously. Didn't really know about the accounting thing though

But on a more realistic note,

I'm thinking Taiwanese products are slightly better than Chinese.  I mean, it wouldn't be a huge margin but there should be a noticeable difference.  Ultimately, it just depends on who you get your stuff from.  Apple has Foxconn which apparently still produces good stuff so to generalize everything isn't always the best approach. 

[Leslieann]

so someone needs to open a switch company that manufactures them in the US. btw i spoke to diatec and they refuse to RMA for this problem or for my number row grinding against the body of the keyboard. they said they would swap out the switches if i send it to tokyo but im waiting to see if they will just send the switches to me.

It would be cheaper to hire someone here to just do it for you.
By the time you figure time and shipping expense.

[VesperSAINT]

Show Image

But on a more realistic note,

I'm thinking Taiwanese products are slightly better than Chinese.  I mean, it wouldn't be a huge margin but there should be a noticeable difference.  Ultimately, it just depends on who you get your stuff from.  Apple has Foxconn which apparently still produces good stuff so to generalize everything isn't always the best approach. 

Haha! I wasn't complaining about the way he answered but rather clarifying my question so he doesn't misunderstand. I was also expressing my understanding of his answer/point.

On another note, I also thought Taiwan had better manufacturing and quality control than China but I guess I was wrong. Many people seem to be complaining about Filco's going **** too.

It would be cheaper to hire someone here to just do it for you.
By the time you figure time and shipping expense.

Agreed, if he's willing to void his warranty, of course. At this point though, that warranty seems pretty useless.

[tauburn]

so someone needs to open a switch company that manufactures them in the US. btw i spoke to diatec and they refuse to RMA for this problem or for my number row grinding against the body of the keyboard. they said they would swap out the switches if i send it to tokyo but im waiting to see if they will just send the switches to me.

Where did you buy, amazon?

yes.

[tauburn]

so someone needs to open a switch company that manufactures them in the US. btw i spoke to diatec and they refuse to RMA for this problem or for my number row grinding against the body of the keyboard. they said they would swap out the switches if i send it to tokyo but im waiting to see if they will just send the switches to me.

It would be cheaper to hire someone here to just do it for you.
By the time you figure time and shipping expense.

if they do send me the switches, i'll probably just sell or trade them on here. i don't really care that much about the blue not clicking completely as long as i get some sort of compensation for it. i don't want to risk screwing it up in the soldering if all the keys are registering electronically. im out of money pretty much so im not hiring anyone to do anything.

[Leslieann]

It would be cheaper to hire someone here to just do it for you.
By the time you figure time and shipping expense.

if they do send me the switches, i'll probably just sell or trade them on here. i don't really care that much about the blue not clicking completely as long as i get some sort of compensation for it. i don't want to risk screwing it up in the soldering if all the keys are registering electronically. im out of money pretty much so im not hiring anyone to do anything.
[/quote]

The toughest part of desoldering is the equipment.
It's actually pretty hard to damage a Filco beyond repair due to how they built it.

[rootwyrm]

I spoke about this elsewhere, but basically, quality control is a HUGE problem in China.
I know a few who have done manufacturing there and it's like working with the mafia. The phrase "buyer beware" has never been more true.

Basically if you don't specify EXACTLY what you want, for every step of the way, otherwise you can pretty much expect a sub-par product every time. They know it, and they also know that as soon as you leave, another company will be knocking and looking for cheap manufacturing.

You could order a standardized grade 8 bolt, and the manufacturer will buy grade 5 material and label it grade 8, this you expect. However, what often happens is that when the manufacturer asked for grade 5, the supplier sold him grade 3.

Scarily enough, this is actually what has happened in the North American aviation industry. Boxes of these fake bolts got into the supply lines.

Now THAT is something to think about... Not even funny when you think about it...

On another note, you say "China" but does that include Taiwan?

What, you think that a narrow strip of water actually makes the least bit of difference?

HA!

Oh wait. You were serious. You actually believe that Taiwan is magically better than China despite the same people running the same companies with the same ethics and just occasionally changing the name. You so silly.
Yes. Because obviously a keyboard labeled as 'from Taiwan' wasn't made in China even though it was actually made in mainland China and just passed through Taiwan. And obviously Hon Hai Precision Industry, a Taiwanese company, is not the same as Foxco-OH WAIT, THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

Also, Cherry switches are manufactured in EUROPE. Not China. IIRC ZF Electronics AKA Cherry switch manufacturing is still out of Bayreuth, Germany.

[BearManJim]

If you bought the keyboard from Amazon, it was originally sourced from the Keyboard Co, here in the UK? Is it worth contacting them for help? They'll legally obliged to honour your warranty, aren't they?
We offer a 1 year 'return to base' warranty on hardware.
I think you'd have to fork out though for shipping to the UK?

I was transferring my Jailhouse Blues from my Race to my Filco last night and had a chance to experiment with this issue.

I had nearly new Blue stems and a complete set of brand new switch housings that had never been installed.
Out of 90 housings, 3 of them had no tactile feel to them, and unless the tactile bump works, you will not get the click sound as it's what fires the bottom half of the switch down to make the click sound. No matter what stem or top I used, they simply wouldn't work properly. Some also had more feel than others, and again, switching the stem and tops changed nothing, it was only the housing/base that mattered.

Looking inside the switch, they appear perfectly fine, but it turns out that the difference between working and not is extremely small, less than 1mm. Sometimes you can see it, sometimes you can't.

It's a manufacturing issue, specifically how the gold piece is inserted into the plastic.
Depending on how it's placed, will also determine the tactility and noise level.

Superb analysis Leslieann. So Cherry indeed are at the root of the issue? The fault tolerance of their blue switch is too low? Given that deviations of less than 1mm ruin the the sound/tactility of the switch?! Surely the design needs to be improved?! With a estimated failure rate of over 3% (only going by Leileann's experiment), no blue equipped board is safe from these defective switches! QC may minimise the impact but given all these recent occurrences, it's obviously not being effectively policed.

Are Cherry switches manufactured in China though? Or even Europe for that matter?! According to Wiki, Cherry were bought out by ZF Friedrichshafen back in 2008 (coincides neatly at the same time non-clicky issues started appearing on this forum). Perhaps manufacturing responsibilities shifted to another site? The company maintains production facilities in Europe (most notably in Bayreuth, Germany), Asia as well as the Americas. The company is also in partnership with ZF Electronics TVS (an Indian-based company) who have a manufacturing facility over in Madurai?

Regardless of who is now responsible for manufacturing these switches, Cherry R&D over in Auerbach in der Oberpfalz need to find a way of increasing the fault tolerance of the blue switch so that even after manufacturing and/or assembly botch-ups - it continues to feel and sound as it should.

Until then, I will probably not attempt to buy another Cherry MX blue equipped keyboard. At least not from QPAD, Razor, Cooler Master, Filco or DAS (avoiding Costar and iOne). 50 million keystrokes... What a joke!

[tp4tissue]

If you bought from amazon.. I think you can return it to amazon... even though it's a different seller, because if it was fullfilled the amazon.. the return will also be handled by them..

[VesperSAINT]

What, you think that a narrow strip of water actually makes the least bit of difference?

HA!

Oh wait. You were serious. You actually believe that Taiwan is magically better than China despite the same people running the same companies with the same ethics and just occasionally changing the name. You so silly.
Yes. Because obviously a keyboard labeled as 'from Taiwan' wasn't made in China even though it was actually made in mainland China and just passed through Taiwan. And obviously Hon Hai Precision Industry, a Taiwanese company, is not the same as Foxco-OH WAIT, THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

Also, Cherry switches are manufactured in EUROPE. Not China. IIRC ZF Electronics AKA Cherry switch manufacturing is still out of Bayreuth, Germany.

Lol... Anyone sensing some anger here? I'm kind of at a loss. You assume so many things from my simple question... All I did was ask if Taiwanese companies like Filco had bad quality control like that of some Chinese companies described by Leslieann. That's it. Thanks for answering my question, I guess?

[tp4tissue]

I'm pretty sure Cherry makes batches of switches in China, I can't remember where I read this.

[BearManJim]

Until then, I will probably not attempt to buy another Cherry MX blue equipped keyboard. At least not from QPAD, Razor, Cooler Master, Filco or DAS (avoiding Costar and iOne). 50 million clicks... What a joke!

Not to worry.  Matias has some well made clicky Alps worthy of your dollars.

I will certainly look into it!

[rootwyrm]

What, you think that a narrow strip of water actually makes the least bit of difference?

HA!

Oh wait. You were serious. You actually believe that Taiwan is magically better than China despite the same people running the same companies with the same ethics and just occasionally changing the name. You so silly.
Yes. Because obviously a keyboard labeled as 'from Taiwan' wasn't made in China even though it was actually made in mainland China and just passed through Taiwan. And obviously Hon Hai Precision Industry, a Taiwanese company, is not the same as Foxco-OH WAIT, THEY ARE ONE AND THE SAME.

Also, Cherry switches are manufactured in EUROPE. Not China. IIRC ZF Electronics AKA Cherry switch manufacturing is still out of Bayreuth, Germany.

Lol... Anyone sensing some anger here? I'm kind of at a loss. You assume so many things from my simple question... All I did was ask if Taiwanese companies like Filco had bad quality control like that of some Chinese companies described by Leslieann. That's it. Thanks for answering my question, I guess?

Eh, just tired of debunking the complete crap of the 'Made in Taiwan' myth. (Emphasis on myth.) Same as the ridiculous idea that Costar is automatically good and iOne is automatically bad. They hire well educated designers in Taiwan and Hong Kong and Japan and through contractors, then they send the actual manufacturing work to where it's cheap - which could be Taiwan, could be China, could be Indonesia - and still get to slap the 'Made in Taiwan' label on it and call it a day.
Foxconn made these poorly designed low quality motherboards and also happens to make the iPhone. Those piles and piles of defective leaky capacitors all came from factories actually located in Taiwan, not mainland China. Delta's plants in mainland China have turned out some of the most beautiful solder work I have ever seen alongside some of the worst.

The 'Made in XYZ' means nothing at all. Either the manufacturer has a solid design, good manufacturing and reliable QC/QA or they don't.

[VesperSAINT]

Eh, just tired of debunking the complete crap of the 'Made in Taiwan' myth. (Emphasis on myth.) Same as the ridiculous idea that Costar is automatically good and iOne is automatically bad. They hire well educated designers in Taiwan and Hong Kong and Japan and through contractors, then they send the actual manufacturing work to where it's cheap - which could be Taiwan, could be China, could be Indonesia - and still get to slap the 'Made in Taiwan' label on it and call it a day.
Foxconn made these poorly designed low quality motherboards and also happens to make the iPhone. Those piles and piles of defective leaky capacitors all came from factories actually located in Taiwan, not mainland China. Delta's plants in mainland China have turned out some of the most beautiful solder work I have ever seen alongside some of the worst.

The 'Made in XYZ' means nothing at all. Either the manufacturer has a solid design, good manufacturing and reliable QC/QA or they don't.

Ah I see. Well thank you for explaining! Learning new things about keyboards all the time here