Video Game Controversy News From Idiots to Gamers

[Lanx]

Ok i have 2 stories i want to talk about today,

1. this is a story for idiots who believe video games cause shooting ppl
http://kotaku.com/5982090/sandy-hooks-state-rep-proposes-a-sin-tax-on-m+rated-games

2. this is a story for Gamers and possible new xbox rumors (the new ps has this tech patented i believe)
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/06/next-gen-xbox-protection-rumor-raises-the-question-of-always-on-drm/

Now mind you i didn't actually read those links, i read about them somewhere else, but those are the first google search results so i'm sure they're relevant

1. I don't believe there is anyone on this forum that is dumb enough to believe that M rated games creates killers right? if you do believe this, please hand in your man card, or your smart card, or your just an idiot. I really don't believe that ppl are this stupid, that violent video games creates monsters, i doubt rational ppl believe that either, sure maybe if someone was involved in a tragedy and someone with an agenda was able to mind trick and take advantage of that person, i'll give you a pass, you've been through enough, but otherwise, ppl just dumb.

2. I think sony (inventor of playstation) actually patented the technology so that you can't play a disc game in another playstation and they had this tech ready for the playstation3, but held off on it.
Now in my opinion, the xbox and playstation ppl are idiots, the publishers of games are greedy idiots, and all of this is perpetrated by the greedy idots like Gamestop who will give you 7bucks for a 1 week old new game.
Oh and the always on thing is annoying, again DRM only harms paying customers, DRM/constant online connection only affects the customer base, a pirate is gonna be a pirate.

now lets go back to the game publishers, they obviously hate gamestop and their used game market, in their greedy mind they're thinking that gamestop is ripping them off, for every used game gamestop sells, is a fresh $60 that they stole from the publishers.

not only that, but now they're destroying a great new model, free to play. You know what free to play is? great games, and if you want to pay? for like a cool hat or to level faster, go pay! it's an awesome model.

but now publishers are taking that and making a new model, pay to play, yes, look at the new deadspace 3, it sounds like it's a horrible model, the usual upgrade route, now is being take over by microtransactions. Not only do you have to play 60bucks to buy and play the game, but now you have to do xbox points to do upgrades (or something like that). What the heck! i liked deadspace 2 (i didn't play 1, i got 2 as a present and played it) now i don't even want deadspace 3.

or how about capcom, they put locked characters on their discs, and then say that it's DLC, what does DLC mean? downloadable content? there's nothing to download, they just want to jack you for more microtransactions.

the used market is necessary, because it's life, not everyone is a collector!, i still have all my playstation 2 games, not because i collect, but because places like Gamestop wanted to pay 7bucks for a pristine disc! yes ebay is an option also.

Not everyone can afford 60bucks for a new game, halo4 used is 40bucks on amazon right now, that's a $20 dollar savings, basically if you wait a month or 2 you get to save 33%, and all your missing is the new game smell. game publishers are stupid for trying to punish ppl who want to buy things, how they want to buy things.

thoughts?

[tp4tissue]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

[Lanx]

in my opinion, a good way is to basically have a steambox, merge steam and xbox, a lot of gaves have this anyway, mini games are like 5bucks on all 3 systems, the thing is to put it on a hard drive. the best solution would be if they allowed usb/esata connections and they could just plug in whatever external HD, to download and play from these games (like tivo's) but of course, no company would ever dream of doing this, they want to only sell their outrageously expensive HD...

i mean kindles and nooks are common place, lots of ppl read from ipads now, barnes and nobles is dying, why can't we make game media die too?

heck i'm a gamer, but i don't have time to game anymore, in truth, i've played a lot of droid games for like a buck, and they were good, and my galaxy s3 has a bigger and nicer screen than my old DS, actually with squaresoft having tight on screen controller controls (when you play a final fantasy game, anywhere you touch on the left side, becomes the controller point, it's actually really nice than having a set area for the fake control pad) it plays better than ff4 on the DS. (this is actually iphone, on the wifes).

i don't have any physical copies of games on my phone, why can't we make this for a home game system? (actually wasn't there a box made for this? a kickstarter?)

[PointyFox]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

[alaricljs]

Yes, I believe that video games cause violence, that's why my kids play-acted all sorts of violence before they ever saw a video game (much less played one).

As for tons of storage... yes I do have tons of storage, yes all of my music collection is on there and so is my movie collection.  Yes,  they are all rips I personally made off media I bought (and still have in a box in my basement).

[Lanx]

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

the problem is corporations want to go after this guy, which is WRONG. look i'm not saying it's wrong to protect your IP or your product, or whatever, you should. BUT at what expense, at the expense of your paying customers?

in the summer when steam had a sale, ubisoft's DRM server went down, that's right they have a server that just handles DRM, it went down and ppl couldn't play, the ppl who paid for the game couldn't play.

then there's the old secure rom, hated by everyone, so famous that spore, where secure rom debuted got a 1 star out of 5 on amazon, just for having secure rom, and then publishers begging amazon to erase those bad reviews

or the sony cd marker trick? back in 01, sony cd's had copy protection, which was stupid cuz cd's get scratched up easily, it just happens, if this happened tho, your disc became unreadable cuz of the copy protection. So ppl figured out, you can just run black marker on the outside of the disc, so that they can play a cd they legitamatly bought, but because it was scratched up, refuse to play cuz of DRM.

then sony came up with even funkier copy protection, if the cd was being played in a computer, it would just blue screen it, if it was played in a mac, it would somehow hardware lock the cd tray, this was to prevent "ripping", even tho ppl would just want to listen to music on their computer! omg why would ppl want to do that.

then there's bluray, i haven't tried it, since i don't have bluray on pc (only playstation, isn't that why everyone has a ps3?) but don't you need specific point to point hdmi or something to play bluray on computer, or it just futz's out? or was that just the beginning? wait didn't you need like hdcp?

DRM bad, just annoys paying customers, cuz a pirate, is just gonna pirate, every DRM, copy protection in the world has been circumvented, just like a lock and burgler. I'm not saying don't bother locking your door, but many ppl do...

[alaricljs]

hdcp over hdmi, or a software workaround to side step that requirement,  which is what I'd use were I to bother buying any BDs (or getting them through Netflix).

[noisyturtle]

I can see the DRM issue from both perspectives. Coming from the old school, I actually prefer single player titles so the 'always on' aspect is worrisome if one wants to play where there is no connection, or at all when your ISP fails you. On the other hand there really is no other semi-reasonable way to stop(slow) pirating, and DRM still doesn't do a great job of that but it's something and something is necessary.
As for the violence in video games begets violence in real life? That's an argument almost as old as the industry itself, and will continue to resurface like a peeled scab every time someone carries out some detestable act and happens to have gaming as a hobby. All these shooters could be into mechanical keyboards, but we would never hear about that because it's not so easy to demonize. All I gotta say is ALL violent media can inspire violent behavior, and it does each and every day. It's not the fault of the medium, but a combination of the individual and the environment they associate with that draws out that behavior.

[tp4tissue]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

That is the DEAL with respect "TO ME"...


This is in all honesty a change in market value of IP,  NOT an issue of Legality.

[PointyFox]

I can see the DRM issue from both perspectives. Coming from the old school, I actually prefer single player titles so the 'always on' aspect is worrisome if one wants to play where there is no connection, or at all when your ISP fails you. On the other hand there really is no other semi-reasonable way to stop(slow) pirating, and DRM still doesn't do a great job of that but it's something and something is necessary.
As for the violence in video games begets violence in real life? That's an argument almost as old as the industry itself, and will continue to resurface like a peeled scab every time someone carries out some detestable act and happens to have gaming as a hobby. All these shooters could be into mechanical keyboards, but we would never hear about that because it's not so easy to demonize. All I gotta say is ALL violent media can inspire violent behavior, and it does each and every day. It's not the fault of the medium, but a combination of the individual and the environment they associate with that draws out that behavior.

Yes.  If an individual is very affected by his environment, a violent video game may cause violence the same way as watching Superman may cause someone with a mental disorder to think he's Superman and jump off a building, arms outstretched and wearing a cape.

[Lanx]

you know who is affected by always on DRM? soldiers and travelers, i can't speak for soldiers, but i know lots of them can't play games that require constant connection, if they're deployed cuz the internet isn't stable, it's good for browsing, but not continuous. (i dealt with a lot of soldiers in my 7 years of everquest playing, probably over 200 soldiers, and everyone of them will quit everquest, even tho they could play games while being deployed [during off hours of course] but can't because internet sucks) and travelers, you know what sucks? hotel internet, it's impossible to play a mmo in a hotel, the pings are atrocious, i'm guessing it's the same for always on DRM.

now you're saying who in their right minds brings a xbox while travelling? lots of ppl, you travel to a location for 1 week/ 2weeks what are you going to DO? go out to the bars? you don't drink... watch basic cable? TV SUCKS, play games! if you're a gamer.

i mean think about it, if you travel to a location for a day or 2, sure you could get by, but for a week? or 2? or even a month? heck yea i'd bring a gaming system.

[tp4tissue]

you know who is affected by always on DRM? soldiers and travelers, i can't speak for soldiers, but i know lots of them can't play games that require constant connection, if they're deployed cuz the internet isn't stable, it's good for browsing, but not continuous. (i dealt with a lot of soldiers in my 7 years of everquest playing, probably over 200 soldiers, and everyone of them will quit everquest, even tho they could play games while being deployed [during off hours of course] but can't because internet sucks) and travelers, you know what sucks? hotel internet, it's impossible to play a mmo in a hotel, the pings are atrocious, i'm guessing it's the same for always on DRM.

now you're saying who in their right minds brings a xbox while travelling? lots of ppl, you travel to a location for 1 week/ 2weeks what are you going to DO? go out to the bars? you don't drink... watch basic cable? TV SUCKS, play games! if you're a gamer.

i mean think about it, if you travel to a location for a day or 2, sure you could get by, but for a week? or 2? or even a month? heck yea i'd bring a gaming system.

yes because soldiers should be playing games...

[Lanx]

yes, because soldiers, should be soldiers 24/7? wth?

[PointyFox]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

"Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility... "

Here we see torrenting has become second nature to tp4tissue.  Years of this has eroded his judgment and he actually believes there is nothing wrong with pirating.  In fact, he goes so far as to blame other people for not stopping his actions, "Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine", even to the point where he has factionalized non-pirates into a seemingly authoritarian group, clearly oblivious to their declining grasp on their "seat of power".  Has pirating caused this madness? 

[tp4tissue]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

"Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility... "

Here we see torrenting has become second nature to tp4tissue.  Years of this has eroded his judgment and he actually believes there is nothing wrong with pirating.  In fact, he goes so far as to blame other people for not stopping his actions, "Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine", even to the point where he has factionalized non-pirates into a seemingly authoritarian group, clearly oblivious to their declining grasp on their "seat of power".  Has pirating caused this madness? 

HAHA.. good spin... but that's the market...

There's no erosion... a product is worth whatever they can be sold at.... Is a filco worth $150 in material, hell no.....

So what did you buy with that $150...  irrelevant, because they can be sold for $150...


NOW, torrenting,  someone could buy a bluray, or buy a hard drive.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your movies cheaper than Harddrives,, and people will buy it again..


THIS is exactly what is happening... ALA DRM,, and streaming (netflix)

[Lanx]

but with streaming, you pay to watch, not to keep.

i pay 7bucks a month for hulu, it's silly cuz i still get ads!

but it lets my wife watch hulu on her ipad, at home or traveling(you can only watch hulu on devices with a paid account)

if anything, streaming should be the new norm.

[PointyFox]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

"Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility... "

Here we see torrenting has become second nature to tp4tissue.  Years of this has eroded his judgment and he actually believes there is nothing wrong with pirating.  In fact, he goes so far as to blame other people for not stopping his actions, "Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine", even to the point where he has factionalized non-pirates into a seemingly authoritarian group, clearly oblivious to their declining grasp on their "seat of power".  Has pirating caused this madness? 

HAHA.. good spin... but that's the market...

There's no erosion... a product is worth whatever they can be sold at.... Is a filco worth $150 in material, hell no.....

So what did you buy with that $150...  irrelevant, because they can be sold for $150...


NOW, torrenting,  someone could buy a bluray, or buy a hard drive.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your movies cheaper than Harddrives,, and people will buy it again..


THIS is exactly what is happening... ALA DRM,, and streaming (netflix)

This is a poor excuse which makes little sense.  Let's use an analogy.

tp4tissue sees his friends loading things in a store into burlap bags and carrying them out a side door without paying.  He joins them.  He does this for several years, taking a little more each time.  He and his friends now call this "bagging".  They've convinced themselves that the store doesn't care because they don't guard the exits, they haven't gotten in trouble for it, and the store makes enough money already.  tp4tissue casually asks if anyone wants to "bag" dinner.  To him, these objects are now worthless because they can be had for free. 

He claims "NOW, bagging,  someone could buy a bag, or buy a sack.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your goods cheaper than sacks,, and people will buy them again.."

[tp4tissue]

but with streaming, you pay to watch, not to keep.

i pay 7bucks a month for hulu, it's silly cuz i still get ads!

but it lets my wife watch hulu on her ipad, at home or traveling(you can only watch hulu on devices with a paid account)

if anything, streaming should be the new norm.

Playing for "KEEPS" is an antiquated concept... You can't take these things with you...  Utilize whatever you can use NOW and within your lifetime...

For example, the Cost of you KEEPING the stored piece of data on hardware is more expensive then if it was stored on a cloud.. because on the cloud, ONE piece of hardware can serve many, because they won't be accessed simultaneously, WHILE playing for keeps like we traditionally do, with one hardware per person, would require significantly more resources...

The same actually applies to possessions of all type, not only IP,, and it is my hopes that one day people will all realize this..


For example.. most people with a ferrari doesn't have time to drive it, and it is left for show, or locked away...


Now in the future, with an optimized ownership routine, we could Groupbuy a ferrari, and EVERYONE has access to it...



NOW, ferrari isn't the perfect example for this, because for the reason behind its ownership is Partially that "not everyone" could afford one...

But the only reason that clause exists is because WOMEN need to be impressed further and further in the modern world to distinguish between mates...


In the future, when babies can be produced without the need of women, we will finally be able to rid ourselves of this Competition overhead, and the True worth of a ferrari,, the "happiness" it can give to MANY PEOPLE, and not just as an object of show, will be realized.

[tp4tissue]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

"Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility... "

Here we see torrenting has become second nature to tp4tissue.  Years of this has eroded his judgment and he actually believes there is nothing wrong with pirating.  In fact, he goes so far as to blame other people for not stopping his actions, "Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine", even to the point where he has factionalized non-pirates into a seemingly authoritarian group, clearly oblivious to their declining grasp on their "seat of power".  Has pirating caused this madness? 

HAHA.. good spin... but that's the market...

There's no erosion... a product is worth whatever they can be sold at.... Is a filco worth $150 in material, hell no.....

So what did you buy with that $150...  irrelevant, because they can be sold for $150...


NOW, torrenting,  someone could buy a bluray, or buy a hard drive.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your movies cheaper than Harddrives,, and people will buy it again..


THIS is exactly what is happening... ALA DRM,, and streaming (netflix)

This is a poor excuse which makes little sense.  Let's use an analogy.

tp4tissue sees his friends loading things in a store into burlap bags and carrying them out a side door without paying.  He joins them.  He does this for several years, taking a little more each time.  He and his friends now call this "bagging".  They've convinced themselves that the store doesn't care because they don't guard the exits, they haven't gotten in trouble for it, and the store makes enough money already.  tp4tissue casually asks if anyone wants to "bag" dinner.  To him, these objects are now worthless because they can be had for free. 

He claims "NOW, bagging,  someone could buy a bag, or buy a sack.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your goods cheaper than sacks,, and people will buy them again.."

Yup, that's exactly HOW IT IS....

The reason behind the shift in market is,, Technology has made IP trivial to COPY.... THUS decreasing it's value...


Why is a GOOD DEAL, also known as "A STEAL""""

There is FAR deeper logic to this simple analogy.. I hope you're open-minded enough to see it.. but given your current ignorance, little hope...  )

[PointyFox]

I'm perfectly OK with always on DRM..... There is honestly NO OTHER WAY to protect intellectual property...

You put something out there, some one will crack it.... the only way is continuous monitoring..

No matter how much I like something,, I WOULD NEVER buy it,, if it was available on bit-torrent... that is just the heart of the issue...

If you don't force me to buy it, I won't...


If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it....



NOW, the correct path, may be to move on and "CHANGE" the concept of Ownership.... )

This however is not likely to happen soon, because we are still bound by limited resources...



Soon though,,if we do get free energy going... all this arguing can finally stop... though there are a few things I'm personally monitoring which are actively impeding a United world...   

"If something is available for free.. Only IDIOTS would go and pay for it". 

You may not have to pay for it, but it both legally and morally wrong to take it.
I pay for everything I want and I find myself living differently than people who just torrent everything.

1. I have no need for multiple large hard drives.  I've never needed more than 150 Gb storage.
2. I actually have a CD and record collection.
3. I donate money to free software.
4. I have a huge collection of games on Steam.

I realized this when someone was talking about his 5 Tb worth of storage and I asked him why he needed it.
"Why do you need 5 Tb of storage?"
-"To store all my games, porn, and movies."
"You bought 5 Tb worth of games, porn, and movies?"
-"Don't be an idiot, I torrented them lolz"

Torrenting is not the same as shopping; though a lot of people think it is.

With such easy ways to essentially steal and not get caught, it eventually becomes second nature to the person and they begin acting like everything is free and torrenting is a natural thing to do.

"If you don't force me to buy it, I won't..." (If you don't force me to buy things, I will steal them).

Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility...


Which is why I am OK and in fact, for the manufacturers putting in always on DRM..


But as it stands, cost of movie @ $15 per bluray.... which is ~35gb,,  cost of hard drive,, 35GB = $1.05

"Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine..... If you can't hold onto your "seat of power".. that is your responsibility... "

Here we see torrenting has become second nature to tp4tissue.  Years of this has eroded his judgment and he actually believes there is nothing wrong with pirating.  In fact, he goes so far as to blame other people for not stopping his actions, "Like I said, if you can't force me to BUY something, that's your failure... not mine", even to the point where he has factionalized non-pirates into a seemingly authoritarian group, clearly oblivious to their declining grasp on their "seat of power".  Has pirating caused this madness? 

HAHA.. good spin... but that's the market...

There's no erosion... a product is worth whatever they can be sold at.... Is a filco worth $150 in material, hell no.....

So what did you buy with that $150...  irrelevant, because they can be sold for $150...


NOW, torrenting,  someone could buy a bluray, or buy a hard drive.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your movies cheaper than Harddrives,, and people will buy it again..


THIS is exactly what is happening... ALA DRM,, and streaming (netflix)

This is a poor excuse which makes little sense.  Let's use an analogy.

tp4tissue sees his friends loading things in a store into burlap bags and carrying them out a side door without paying.  He joins them.  He does this for several years, taking a little more each time.  He and his friends now call this "bagging".  They've convinced themselves that the store doesn't care because they don't guard the exits, they haven't gotten in trouble for it, and the store makes enough money already.  tp4tissue casually asks if anyone wants to "bag" dinner.  To him, these objects are now worthless because they can be had for free. 

He claims "NOW, bagging,  someone could buy a bag, or buy a sack.... THIS is the NEW market...

Make your goods cheaper than sacks,, and people will buy them again.."

Yup, that's exactly HOW IT IS....

The reason behind the shift in market is,, Technology has made IP trivial to COPY.... THUS decreasing it's value...


Why is a GOOD DEAL, also known as "A STEAL""""

There is FAR deeper logic to this simple analogy.. I hope you're open-minded enough to see it.. but given your current ignorance, little hope...  )

There is nothing "deep" or "logical" about pirating.  Pirating also doesn't take an open mind.

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

[tp4tissue]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.


The market situation for IPs of today is the head cutting and r4^%ing....

[PointyFox]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

[tp4tissue]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

History is written by the VICTOR... He won, that's as much stock as you should put into whatever Drivel that was written about or by him...


If you think political spin today is "bad", it was WAY WORSE, when far fewer people could read/ write, way back during "that guy's" days.

[PointyFox]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

History is written by the VICTOR... He won, that's as much stock as you should put into whatever Drivel that was written about or by him...

Even so, the quote “The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out” is self-evident.

[tp4tissue]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

History is written by the VICTOR... He won, that's as much stock as you should put into whatever Drivel that was written about or by him...

Even so, the quote “The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out” is self-evident.

It is counter human nature....  and therefore naive, and plain stupid

it is not the "found out" that motivates or demotivates us...   Humans do not work that way.

[PointyFox]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

History is written by the VICTOR... He won, that's as much stock as you should put into whatever Drivel that was written about or by him...

Even so, the quote “The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out” is self-evident.

It is counter human nature....  and therefore naive, and plain stupid

it is not the "found out" that motivates or demotivates us...   Humans do not work that way.

Let me translate what tp4tissue is saying.  "Humans have equal tendency to steal regardless if they know they will get caught or know they will get away with it".  Clearly he has never met a human.  Anyway, poking this monkey with a stick is getting boring.  I am done with this thread for now. 

[tp4tissue]

I'll just leave this here:

“The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out.”
-Thomas Babington Macaulay

The same person that said this was a politician...

Take whatever he's said with grain of salt.


In essence what I'm trying to describe is... Slave owner says "the measure of a man.... found out." sentence to his slave....

guess what,, in due time,, the slaves rebel, and cuts the slave owner's head off and r4^%s his women.

That makes no sense.  Also, the man whom I quoted was well known for his honor and integrity:

"Macaulay was a steadfast friend, and no act inconsistent with the strictest honor and integrity was ever imputed to him. When a poor man, and when salary was of consequence to him, he twice resigned office rather than make compliances for which he would not have been severely blamed. In 1847, when his seat in parliament was at stake, he would not be persuaded to humor, to temporize, even to conciliate. He had a keen relish for the good things of life, and desired fortune as the means of obtaining them; but there was nothing mercenary or selfish in his nature. When he had raised himself to opulence, he gave away with an open hand, not seldom rashly. His very last act was to write a letter to a poor curate enclosing a cheque for Ł25. The purity of his morals was not associated with any tendency to cant."

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000096134/

History is written by the VICTOR... He won, that's as much stock as you should put into whatever Drivel that was written about or by him...

Even so, the quote “The measure of a man's real character is what he would do if he knew he would never be found out” is self-evident.

It is counter human nature....  and therefore naive, and plain stupid

it is not the "found out" that motivates or demotivates us...   Humans do not work that way.

Let me translate what tp4tissue is saying.  "Humans have equal tendency to steal regardless if they know they will get caught or know they will get away with it".  Clearly he has never met a human.

IP was an object that could be controlled and owned ONLY because storage medium was costly relative to income...

That is not true anymore, and the market shifts to reflect that...


And seriously Pointy Fox, I don't know why it is you pretend to "be so noble".   Do you claim to have No pirated material whatsoever?  )


Oh and resorting to name calling when your logic breaks down and fails..  ) kids.

[singaporean123]

Most of the shooters have the good people shooting the bad people, am I right? I don't see how that's an issue for people shooting children or innocent bystanders.

Look at Blizzard's WoW.. the most that has happened from any of the devoted players is blizzardcon.

If games truly affects an individual to do something as drastic as shooting innocent people.. then people who play Sims should be in a building frenzy all over the world

[tp4tissue]

Most of the shooters have the good people shooting the bad people, am I right? I don't see how that's an issue for people shooting children or innocent bystanders.

Look at Blizzard's WoW.. the most that has happened from any of the devoted players is blizzardcon.

If games truly affects an individual to do something as drastic as shooting innocent people.. then people who play Sims should be in a building frenzy all over the world

well, with the shooting, it's an issue of "associativity"...   When you play many games that involve leisurely shooting, it puts "shooting" closely to "relief, good, progress"  in you mind...

This is ok for most people, because there is enough mental provisioning "against death" to stop them from going on a rampage and killing..

However, the cases we DO have a problem with and eventually hear about are those with mental deficiencies in self control or were in a "terrible" environment that's conducive to development of anxiety that overcomes "sense"


Video games are not going away... and honestly we do not have enough shootings to warrant it. 

lets assume EVERY school shooting was caused by video games, that's ~300 people since the 1980s...

Hardly a problem.... compared to say cigarettes.  )

[bisl]

Now in the future, with an optimized ownership routine, we could Groupbuy a ferrari, and EVERYONE has access to it...



NOW, ferrari isn't the perfect example for this, because for the reason behind its ownership is Partially that "not everyone" could afford one...

But the only reason that clause exists is because WOMEN need to be impressed further and further in the modern world to distinguish between mates...


In the future, when babies can be produced without the need of women, we will finally be able to rid ourselves of this Competition overhead, and the True worth of a ferrari,, the "happiness" it can give to MANY PEOPLE, and not just as an object of show, will be realized.

wtf am I reading

[tp4tissue]

Now in the future, with an optimized ownership routine, we could Groupbuy a ferrari, and EVERYONE has access to it...



NOW, ferrari isn't the perfect example for this, because for the reason behind its ownership is Partially that "not everyone" could afford one...

But the only reason that clause exists is because WOMEN need to be impressed further and further in the modern world to distinguish between mates...


In the future, when babies can be produced without the need of women, we will finally be able to rid ourselves of this Competition overhead, and the True worth of a ferrari,, the "happiness" it can give to MANY PEOPLE, and not just as an object of show, will be realized.

wtf am I reading

i admit, it is rare for people to THINK, on the internet, as is the case of Pointy Fox above.. but yea.. think for a second about what I've said.. and it's quite straight forward.

You buy most things to impress women

Most resources conclude their use in production of "new humans"

So, the total possible value to an object has always played secondary to "that cause"

With the "competition overhead removed" the impress-females bottleneck gone,   a ferrari can shed it's useless purpose as a "show piece"

[quickcrx702]

To be honest, I used to torrent things, and if I liked them, I would buy them.  The biggest things I would download illegally, then buy legally, were movies.  I figured, why give the movie industry $20 for some movie that was complete garbage.  But if I liked the movie, then I had zero problems with buying the movie because I knew what the value was.  I have a couple hundred movies, TV series, etc that I have done this with BTW.  As far as video games, DRM actually discourages me from making purchases.  I tried to do the same thing with video games as movies, download it illegally and then legally purchase it if I liked it.  However, I found that the legal copies that I purchased were more annoying to play than the hacked copies I downloaded with the DRM stripped.  The only thing DRM does is irritate paying customers, because people who steal software will find ways around whatever form of protection software vendors put.  I paid about $400 for a series of ebooks for CCIE certification, only to find out it had some DRM crap on it that would only allow me to view it on one PC EVER.  Not at a time... but EVER.  I was super irritated, because nowhere was I informed about that until after I had made my purchase.  Needless to say, I found a way to defeat the DRM, and can now view on all of my devices.  The illegal versions you download don't have that crap, and I felt like I was being punished for being a paying customer.

[davkol]

• This is a serious issue. I mean, not the "games cause violence" thing, but the "something appears that it might be harmful, let's ban it" approach. Games, movies and stuff already have all sorts of ratings everywhere. It's parents' responsibility to make conclusions, but it seems parents' just don't give a dern.
• Let me quote what Cory Doctorow wrote (in Someone comes to town, someone leaves the town) about DRM:

No customer wants DRM. No one woke up this morning and said, "Damn, I wish there was a way to do less with my books, movies and music."
(...)
In case there's any doubt: I hate DRM. There is no DRM on this book. None of the books you get from this site have DRM on them. If you get a DRMed ebook, I urge you to break the locks off it and convert it to something sensible like a text file.

[DamienG]

I think it's unlikely the next Xbox will have Blu-Ray. Microsoft have never shipped anything with Blu-Ray... because it requires Java. Microsoft haven't shipped Java for a long time due to a bunch of legal battles with Sun (now Oracle).

They'd also rather you buy the video content from them than on Blu-Ray disc. Can also save some $'s on not paying Blu-Ray royalties. I suspect we'll see some proprietary game-only high-density disc format (with backward compat to Xbox 360 if the console can manage it, and regular DVD)... or no drive at all.

[)amien

[Malphas]

wtf am I reading

It's OK, tp4 is an aspie or something. One of those other conditions that makes you a bit of an incomprehensible weirdo, anyway.

[IvanIvanovich]

1. Politicians being clueless politicians. They feel the need to posture for the morons that elected them in the first place, to secure their re election. Nothing more than capitalizing on controversy for their benefit. The biggest problem with violence in America in my opinion is suppressed sexuality. it's ok to have graphic depictions of cruelty on tv, but forbid there is a little glimpse of a females nipple or something. I feel this kind of puritanical attitude towards sex leads to the most maladjustment.

2. I don't care. They can pile 96 layers of DRM. I don't buy anything I can get for free. I am to the point that I only pay for hardgoods that I can't download. I can't wait for replicators so I can start pirating clothing, food, and everything else with the latest pirated files from Versace and Wolfgang Puck.

[Krogenar]

1. I don't believe there is anyone on this forum that is dumb enough to believe that M rated games creates killers right? if you do believe this, please hand in your man card, or your smart card, or your just an idiot. I really don't believe that ppl are this stupid, that violent video games creates monsters, i doubt rational ppl believe that either, sure maybe if someone was involved in a tragedy and someone with an agenda was able to mind trick and take advantage of that person, i'll give you a pass, you've been through enough, but otherwise, ppl just dumb.

For a long time I felt it was unnecessary to restrict what people could put in video games, etc., but I'm about a month away from becoming a father, and in the last few months I've been looking at the culture more carefully. Once you reach a certain age you sort of 'opt-out' of the overarching popular culture, but when you've got a child of your own, the state of the culture does become an issue. The popular culture is sort of like a shared resource; a lake, or an ocean. Everyone is allowed to put something into it, or out of it, at their whim. I look at the culture today, and it looks like a sewer -- and I cringe at the thought of one day putting my daughter out onto that ocean.

It's easy to say, "Ok, then don't buy it, etc." but it's hard to avoid the overall culture -- very hard. My only real option is to become Amish. There was a technological workaround a few years back that was promising; a DVD player that edited out violent scenes from DVDs automatically. So, for example, Die Hard 2 is put into the player; the DVD player has a set of timecodes that delineate the 'bad stuff' and edits them out. So as a parent you can put in any movie you want, and set the player to PG, and anything greater than PG-rating is seamlessly skipped over.

http://www.familysafemedia.com/edited_movies_-_parental_contr.html

I think this sort of thing should be encouraged, so that parents can define and control their own personal culture. This way I could have a daughter that is not inured and desensitized to, say, decapitations. I'm old-fashioned that way. The future will be (hopefully) a kind of cultural narrowcasting.

2. Don't really care.

[Lanx]

i live in the heart of amish ville, literally 3x a week i will have to drive around a horse and buggy (they're considered vehicles but they go like 20mph, and you're supposed to pass them even with double whites) every amish teen i see has a cellphone, how? for some reason lots of amish teens like to hang out at walmart. they also hang around the malls and amish business men will have this little hut detached from their main home. This hut is the technology room, it has the phone, a fax line, and in the case of these horrible pathetic amish puppymill breeders, they have a computer and internet to post puppies for sale online. As long as all the tech is not in the main house and in a little garage it's fine.

i hate the amish! mainly cuz they can't talk back to me on the internet and the puppy mills, go google lancaster puppy mills, you'll hate them too

[tp4tissue]

i live in the heart of amish ville, literally 3x a week i will have to drive around a horse and buggy (they're considered vehicles but they go like 20mph, and you're supposed to pass them even with double whites) every amish teen i see has a cellphone, how? for some reason lots of amish teens like to hang out at walmart. they also hang around the malls and amish business men will have this little hut detached from their main home. This hut is the technology room, it has the phone, a fax line, and in the case of these horrible pathetic amish puppymill breeders, they have a computer and internet to post puppies for sale online. As long as all the tech is not in the main house and in a little garage it's fine.

i hate the amish! mainly cuz they can't talk back to me on the internet and the puppy mills, go google lancaster puppy mills, you'll hate them too

I don't agree with mistreatment of animals, if you're gonna take responsibility for one, do it well..

However, you "HATE" them for simply that?   ) , they're just dogs, not even "your" dogs, and the prices for them are too low, so their blight is due to insufficient market value, not human coldness..

[Lanx]

too low? most of these scumbag thieves are trying to charge 400 to 600 for puppies, kinda ridiculous (even tho i actually have never bought a puppy), unfortunately i watched hbo puppy mills and i gotta find a puppy in a different state, every breeder i've called has a name like
fisher
lapp
beiler
jabadiah

ugh i just ask, "are you amish" then just hang up when all of them say yes. yea i sorta went puppy hunting, after about 6months i was almost ok with starting over, and my wife and i kinda thought, maybe we'll try a puppy this time instead, of course i tried to get a rescue puppy, but that's almost impossible, and amazingly this place only has pitbull puppies, it seems ppl just raise pitbulls incorrectly, while i wouldn't mind a pitbull, they are on the banned list in my community. so in my spare time i just call these ppl that have puppies for sale and make sure they aren't those evil amish, so far no luck. (and yes if the 2 rescues that i'm on the waiting list for, had puppies come in, i'd rush over, so far, no luck)

[fohat.digs]

1. I don't believe there is anyone on this forum that is dumb enough to believe that M rated games creates killers right? if you do believe this, please hand in your man card, or your smart card, or your just an idiot. I really don't believe that ppl are this stupid, that violent video games creates monsters, i doubt rational ppl believe that either, sure maybe if someone was involved in a tragedy and someone with an agenda was able to mind trick and take advantage of that person, i'll give you a pass, you've been through enough, but otherwise, ppl just dumb.

For a long time I felt it was unnecessary to restrict what people could put in video games, etc., but I'm about a month away from becoming a father, and in the last few months I've been looking at the culture more carefully. Once you reach a certain age you sort of 'opt-out' of the overarching popular culture, but when you've got a child of your own, the state of the culture does become an issue. The popular culture is sort of like a shared resource; a lake, or an ocean. Everyone is allowed to put something into it, or out of it, at their whim. I look at the culture today, and it looks like a sewer -- and I cringe at the thought of one day putting my daughter out onto that ocean.

It's easy to say, "Ok, then don't buy it, etc." but it's hard to avoid the overall culture -- very hard. My only real option is to become Amish. There was a technological workaround a few years back that was promising; a DVD player that edited out violent scenes from DVDs automatically. So, for example, Die Hard 2 is put into the player; the DVD player has a set of timecodes that delineate the 'bad stuff' and edits them out. So as a parent you can put in any movie you want, and set the player to PG, and anything greater than PG-rating is seamlessly skipped over.

http://www.familysafemedia.com/edited_movies_-_parental_contr.html

I think this sort of thing should be encouraged, so that parents can define and control their own personal culture. This way I could have a daughter that is not inured and desensitized to, say, decapitations. I'm old-fashioned that way. The future will be (hopefully) a kind of cultural narrowcasting.

2. Don't really care.

Congratulations on the fatherhood thing.

Becoming a father is life-changing. Imagine driving in your car without being able to say "ASSH0LE" out loud! Mine are teenagers now, so they could take it, but I try even harder because of the example, etc.

To me, that year between 1 and 2 is the most magical, as they are able to stand up and start walking and talking like real little people for the first time. Not that there is any stage that is not fascinating on its own.

PS - I also liked the bit about poking the monkey with the stick a few posts back.

[davkol]

Somewhat connected to the first point.