Want to get into SC2, Keyboard suggestions?

[Capitalistix]

Eventually, Id like to get a keyboard specifically for rts games like StarCraft 2. Its my understanding that Ill need to be repeatedly hitting buttons faster than my main genre (action adventure/fps) so Im thinking my beloved cherry greens aint gonna cut it! I have tried blacks before but I feel with the speed Ill need, despite my love for heavier switch feelings, reds would be the way to go, no?

Also, layout wise, what do I really need? A bunch of extra macro keys? A full keyboard? Or would a TKL cut it? Maybe a TKL with macros? (havent seem many o them!)

Anyways, all advice is welcome and thanks in advance guys! =]

[gnubag]

people use all kinds of switches for sc2 (blue, brown, red, black).
generally you would want atleast a 75% (kbt race, choc mini) for f- keys
so everything bigger than that should be good.

macro keys are not necessary to be honest.

[Chase5delta]

You don't need macro keys, a normal Tenkeyless keyboard will work. And switch is really just personal preference. Reds are pretty good for RTS games.

[Larken]

I'll imagine that your preference is a bigger factor than the actual switch type. I have reds and browns and I prefer using my browns for gaming even though the reds definitely feel better for fps (its the way the wasd keys return when it's released, with no bump in between). but as the browns were my daily driver, the tactility doesn't bother me at all while gaming at all, and the familiarity with the keyboard outweighed the difference in switch feel altogether.

In essence, just go with what you like. So many gaming boards use blues when the hysteresis is clearly a problem for fast repeating keys, and yet it is still a popular switch among top gamers. Go figure.

[Capitalistix]

people use all kinds of switches for sc2 (blue, brown, red, black).
generally you would want atleast a 75% (kbt race, choc mini) for f- keys
so everything bigger than that should be good.

macro keys are not necessary to be honest.

Im kinda stuck between a kbt race and pure with reds. Ill probably wanna add a fee keycaps and people were saying the caps on the race are weirdly shaped? Also, why do i need the function keys? It seems as though control group hotkeys are the number row, not necessarily the F row, what will I use those for?

[Mugen]

people use all kinds of switches for sc2 (blue, brown, red, black).
generally you would want atleast a 75% (kbt race, choc mini) for f- keys
so everything bigger than that should be good.

macro keys are not necessary to be honest.

Im kinda stuck between a kbt race and pure with reds. Ill probably wanna add a fee keycaps and people were saying the caps on the race are weirdly shaped? Also, why do i need the function keys? It seems as though control group hotkeys are the number row, not necessarily the F row, what will I use those for?

Function keys are important, depending on skill level. F1 is used to select idle workers, F2 is used to select all army units, and the rest are used as location hotkeys (e.g. bind a specific location onthe map to a key, like a possible base location to jump there quickly when needed).
Keep in mind that all actions can be bound to other keys, so there is no such thing as "you must have XYZ keys"

Honestly, any keyboard would work, especially for a beginner, i haven't used location hotkeys until i got to Masters so whatever is comfortable in terms of hand/wrist positioning would work.
Hope this helps.

[behappy]

I use a HHKB and it works fantastically with SC2, the Control button being so accessible makes it easy to set control groups - The only downside is there are no F keys, although I simply rebound those keys... It is mostly personal preference and I won't deny that having F keys are useful in Starcraft, although playing the game isn't difficult without them. I've also heard good things about the Ducky Shine 2, maybe that's worth checking out...

[vipjun]

Do the greens really stop you from hitting the keys faster than you can ?

I think going from greens to reds is a killer as you'll be accidentally hitting keys when you rest your hands on the keyboard.

I do not think less force to actuate = faster key action.  now i know reds are something like 1/2 the force of a green but comparatively to things your finger would press "down" on they are more similar in weight than different.

[Kronen]

Typically people use the function row for camera locations.  F1-5 represent your first through fifth bases.  Once you start using camera locations you will wonder how anyone could play SC without them, they are that useful.  Unless you go with some crazy hotkey scheme like Grid or Chameleon etc etc, function rows are very convenient.  If you decide to not use the row and get a 60% realize that to properly optimize you're going to be using alot of redefined SHIFT+ commands to use camera locations.  It can be done, and looks potentially more "efficient" but I kinda like having the muscle memory include dancing around the F keys as it keeps my keyboard hand nimble somewhat.

EDIT: also, any switch can be used for RTS, but most popular among most pro players is the brown switch as you get the tactile feedback for the activation and are less likely to bottom-out and cause fatigue.  But if you play FPSs and other games, reds can be very nice as well.  I'd strongly suggest not using heavier stroke caps such as the black honestly, but that's a personal preference.  I just like to be relaxed.

[AGmurdercore]

Typically people use the function row for camera locations.  F1-5 represent your first through fifth bases.  Once you start using camera locations you will wonder how anyone could play SC without them, they are that useful.  Unless you go with some crazy hotkey scheme like Grid or Chameleon etc etc, function rows are very convenient.  If you decide to not use the row and get a 60% realize that to properly optimize you're going to be using alot of redefined SHIFT+ commands to use camera locations.  It can be done, and looks potentially more "efficient" but I kinda like having the muscle memory include dancing around the F keys as it keeps my keyboard hand nimble somewhat.

EDIT: also, any switch can be used for RTS, but most popular among most pro players is the brown switch as you get the tactile feedback for the activation and are less likely to bottom-out and cause fatigue.  But if you play FPSs and other games, reds can be very nice as well.  I'd strongly suggest not using heavier stroke caps such as the black honestly, but that's a personal preference.  I just like to be relaxed.

Most players use f1 for idle workers and f2-4 for main/natural/third, the rest goes just by scrolling/clicking on the map. It is kinda rare to see anybody use f5. Still you can use f1-4 for bases but then you will HAVE TO rebind inactive workers to something else as you are gonna need this badly

Other then that if you go with either brown or red switches you wont regret it, they are the "best" for this and by best i mean most common used.

[tp4tissue]

starcraft..very hard game...

[CPTBadAss]

Just to let you know, macro are illegal in competition so many people won't use them while playing ladder. I play with Blues and don't have any issues. I've seen pros play with a variety of switches from Clears (Grubby plays on a Ducky with Clears) to reds (Most of EG until they switched to Razer) to rubber domes (Many of the Koreans were playing on QT-35, which were super cheap rubber domes found in Korea).

I would say playing on a Race without the function keys would be a very bad idea. Having camera hotkeys is insanely useful.

[babyhands]

Hey man, semi-high level sc2 player here (not amazing or anything, almost masters), greens will be fine. You super fast APM will develop over time with what ever keyboard you are using. You will grow used to greens while playing, and lets be real, its takes a good while to have a decently fast APM (actions per minute). I have used browns, blues, and reds, my favorite are browns, but like i said, its all personal preference. You are going to need a keyboard with the f keys, so when you get better you can use them for camera locations etc etc, but you dont need macro keys and things like that...Save your money, stick with your greens, and if you really feel like you need to switch (which you shouldnt), just get whatever switch you like the best. Its all about comfort and personal preference.

[AGmurdercore]

starcraft..very hard game...

Actually yes, very hard game indeed. Thank you for pointing that out in your useless comment..

/ontopic

I am using blue switches (which i dont like) and sometimes i am missing the double clicks. Some day i hope i will be able to get a keyboard with browns/red but still until then playing with blues is not that super big of a deal. If you are short on money or w/e just keep playing with your greens.

[duq]

Do the greens really stop you from hitting the keys faster than you can ?

I think going from greens to reds is a killer as you'll be accidentally hitting keys when you rest your hands on the keyboard.

I do not think less force to actuate = faster key action.  now i know reds are something like 1/2 the force of a green but comparatively to things your finger would press "down" on they are more similar in weight than different.

I never end up pressing the keys when resting my hands with reds. But I guess comparatively I have small hands.


Like most are saying, it's a matter of preference and any keyboard should do as long as its comfortable to you.

[Moosecraft]

I can't believe how much weight everyone lays on the F-keys. Me and my two friends were all mid to high masters in WoL and we never used F-keys at all.
That said I believe switches are completely personal and layout with F-keys and macros etc, even though macros are illegal in pro play there is nothing to stop you using them on the ladder(correct me if I am wrong)

[whiteduck]

Having played sc2 with the standard 4 MX switches I would reccomend getting browns or reds.  I personally like browns better as the bump really helps with doubletapping.  I also agree with the suggestions for a keyboard with fkeys.  If you are just starting you will progress faster if you learn to bind camera locations properly from the start rather than getting to masters and then trying to incorporate them...  The less you scroll the screen with your mouse the more time you'll have to spend on things that will make you a better player - keeping a strong macro, watching the mini map constantly, and scouting as much as possible.

[Jagriff]

I suggest any tenkeyless keyboard. It saves a lot of strain on your mouse arm. Switch types are all personal preference.

If you want to maximize efficiency in hotkeys, check out theCore. It's really awkward at first, but it's like comparing Colemak or Dvorak to Qwerty once you get used to it. Plus you don't need F keys to do camera locations.

[poisened_blueberry]

Master level zerg here.
I've used blue switches, blacks and reds, so far reds are the most comfortable for me.  Most of the top koreans use reds if that helps.

[Capitalistix]

Okay, KBT Race with reds, or Choc Mini with reds? Or perhaps theres some other boards in the genus, that are good boards? Im kinda likin how the Race is backlit (id get white, to light up any novelty keys I get to help with knowing my hotkeys) But I have had a choc mimi with browns before, and boy, I loved that little guy. Questionable build quality and yet there was something about the little guy that was... Kinda magical. Im not sure if thats just because of the browns, or the whole package.

[Turkishrambo]

I dont like reds for SC2. My opinion of corse. I like pretty much any tactile switch alot better.

[Leewei]

Hihi, I would recommend tenkeyless layout, you definitely need function keys and the size lets you have a good balance setup between the mouse and keyboard. For switches, anything light like reds/browns would work if you plan on gaming for long periods. Switch type is just personal preference, and whatever you get used to would eventually be the best switch.

[aesthetics1]

Master league player here. I use a filco tenkeyless with reds. Anything tactile screws me up. You absolutely need the F keys. I like the tenkeyless because my mouse and my keyboard hand are closer together, makes it much more comfortable to play with.

[Capitalistix]

Master league player here. I use a filco tenkeyless with reds. Anything tactile screws me up. You absolutely need the F keys. I like the tenkeyless because my mouse and my keyboard hand are closer together, makes it much more comfortable to play with.

Hmm okay then, thanks for all your suggestions! Im between the Keycool 84, which is cool because its backlit, or the Steelseeries 7G (both with reds) the only reason Im
Considering the 7G is because of that nice huge wrist rest/case. I feel it would be very comfortable and extremely sturdy so it would move around the desk, something im worried about with the keycool, although the KC84 would most likely be very  comfortable for the mouse hand at least.

[babyhands]

I have a basically brand new leopold tkl with reds you could buy

[templai]

Master league player here. I use a filco tenkeyless with reds. Anything tactile screws me up. You absolutely need the F keys. I like the tenkeyless because my mouse and my keyboard hand are closer together, makes it much more comfortable to play with.

Hmm okay then, thanks for all your suggestions! Im between the Keycool 84, which is cool because its backlit, or the Steelseeries 7G (both with reds) the only reason Im
Considering the 7G is because of that nice huge wrist rest/case. I feel it would be very comfortable and extremely sturdy so it would move around the desk, something im worried about with the keycool, although the KC84 would most likely be very  comfortable for the mouse hand at least.

Wouldn't you then be paying 50 bucks for a giant wrist rest which fits only the 7G itself?

[aesthetics1]

Master league player here. I use a filco tenkeyless with reds. Anything tactile screws me up. You absolutely need the F keys. I like the tenkeyless because my mouse and my keyboard hand are closer together, makes it much more comfortable to play with.

Hmm okay then, thanks for all your suggestions! Im between the Keycool 84, which is cool because its backlit, or the Steelseeries 7G (both with reds) the only reason Im
Considering the 7G is because of that nice huge wrist rest/case. I feel it would be very comfortable and extremely sturdy so it would move around the desk, something im worried about with the keycool, although the KC84 would most likely be very  comfortable for the mouse hand at least.

Get your own wrist rest that you can use for other keyboards that you will inevitably buy. Lol.

I like the Filco Leather. Ducky makes one, but I think it's too hard.

There are some really nice leather ones on elitekeyboards too, but they are a bit pricey

[templai]

Master league player here. I use a filco tenkeyless with reds. Anything tactile screws me up. You absolutely need the F keys. I like the tenkeyless because my mouse and my keyboard hand are closer together, makes it much more comfortable to play with.

Hmm okay then, thanks for all your suggestions! Im between the Keycool 84, which is cool because its backlit, or the Steelseeries 7G (both with reds) the only reason Im
Considering the 7G is because of that nice huge wrist rest/case. I feel it would be very comfortable and extremely sturdy so it would move around the desk, something im worried about with the keycool, although the KC84 would most likely be very  comfortable for the mouse hand at least.

Get your own wrist rest that you can use for other keyboards that you will inevitably buy. Lol.

I like the Filco Leather. Ducky makes one, but I think it's too hard.

There are some really nice leather ones on elitekeyboards too, but they are a bit pricey

Leather is nice, but it tends to wear out fast I think.

[Capitalistix]

alright then, keycool 84 it is. Red or black mx? I only ask this because I have a board with blacks and quite like it, for typing at least. Does it become super strenuous playing SC with blacks? In your guys' opinion?

[Moosecraft]

alright then, keycool 84 it is. Red or black mx? I only ask this because I have a board with blacks and quite like it, for typing at least. Does it become super strenuous playing SC with blacks? In your guys' opinion?

I'd take reds over blacks. Now I play with browns and my wrists start to ache after only a few games, this is probably due to prior wrist injuries though. Also keep in mind that the way you are positioning your hands matters quite a bit in the long run. I've heard people say that playing with a wristrest only speeds up wrist injuries and its best to have your hands floating.

[babyhands]

alright then, keycool 84 it is. Red or black mx? I only ask this because I have a board with blacks and quite like it, for typing at least. Does it become super strenuous playing SC with blacks? In your guys' opinion?

I'd take reds over blacks. Now I play with browns and my wrists start to ache after only a few games, this is probably due to prior wrist injuries though. Also keep in mind that the way you are positioning your hands matters quite a bit in the long run. I've heard people say that playing with a wristrest only speeds up wrist injuries and its best to have your hands floating.

reds and browns have the same actuation force, and I am pretty sure the same exact spring so i doubt it has to do with the brown switches. My browns actually felt lighter than my reds to be honest.

[davkol]

Browns have an extra bump (+10 cN) over reds. That doesn't mean different batches / mounting can't feel different, though.

[TreeSc2]

I play starcraft 2 and personally reds are the best. Ive used them all except mx greens and I feel like I have the most apm with the reds and my hand doesnt get exhausted (averaging 300apm , gotta love ZERG!)

[TreeSc2]

but then again id go with the browns too.. anything that requires force (green or blue) tires my hands out extermely fast (depending on if im playing more than 2 games).

[Vintage]

I play sc2 with Reds and I love them!

[TreeSc2]

What race/leauge are you? and what keyboard are you using?!

[TreeSc2]

I have a ducky one the way with reds, really excited for that. And btw I stopped playing zerg and switched to terran for HOTS. Wanted to try something new.

[Grim Fandango]

As always, personal preference.

Reds are nice, light and responsive. However, while I like them for virtually any other genre, I do not like them for RTS. The main problem for me is accidental keypresses, which remain an issue no matter how long I use them. Browns are a "safer" option for me. I feel a little more confident when using them, and my "Actions Per Minute" do not seem to suffer. Since so many people like to use reds for RTS, it just goes to show that something that works for someone else might not work for your. Also, when it comes to performance and staying competitive, keep in mind that some of those Korean pro's seem perfectly capable of destroying the competition on their rubber domes.

As for keyboard size, it depends once again on preference and habits. I do use the F-row, but not the numpad. There are simply many other keys available that I find easier to use, and I have not gotten to that point where I have so many things bound that I should start using the numpad. Therefore, tenkeyless works fine for me. Macro's can actually be useful in RTS, but I do not like the keyboards that offer them, or my keyboard using up the space because of them when I am not playing RTS.

[Hour]

Ducky's are amazing. Mine is not inscripted with brown switches, which will help you in the long run because you have to know your hotkeys. Blue and browns are a must. If you want to die, use blacks, believe me, it is very hard. Here is my board:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=42921
Also, there is a user on GH named Knotra, ask him about keyboards for sc2, he is in masters and owns 12 keyboards. Here is his link:
http://geekhack.org/index.php?action=profile;u=26810
GLHF, go zerg! 

[knotra]

Eventually, Id like to get a keyboard specifically for rts games like StarCraft 2. Its my understanding that Ill need to be repeatedly hitting buttons faster than my main genre (action adventure/fps) so Im thinking my beloved cherry greens aint gonna cut it! I have tried blacks before but I feel with the speed Ill need, despite my love for heavier switch feelings, reds would be the way to go, no?

Also, layout wise, what do I really need? A bunch of extra macro keys? A full keyboard? Or would a TKL cut it? Maybe a TKL with macros? (havent seem many o them!)

Anyways, all advice is welcome and thanks in advance guys! =]

if you really like heavy switches and you dont get tired after using them for a long time, blacks work perfectly fine for playing RTS games like StarCraft 2. However, if you want something lighter, I would recommend the brown switches. The tactile feeling on them isn't as much as the blue switch and the sound comparison is similar. IF you are really interesting in staying with the linear switches then I guess you could go with reds, but just know that the reds are the lightest switches of the cherry mx, so if you like heavy switches, you might not like the reds.

As for layout, I don't know about other games, but for StarCraft 2, you don't need extra macro keys. They actually make things harder. A TKL or Full size is what you want to go for.

[Hour]

There he is 

[Jagriff]

Eventually, Id like to get a keyboard specifically for rts games like StarCraft 2. Its my understanding that Ill need to be repeatedly hitting buttons faster than my main genre (action adventure/fps) so Im thinking my beloved cherry greens aint gonna cut it! I have tried blacks before but I feel with the speed Ill need, despite my love for heavier switch feelings, reds would be the way to go, no?

Also, layout wise, what do I really need? A bunch of extra macro keys? A full keyboard? Or would a TKL cut it? Maybe a TKL with macros? (havent seem many o them!)

Anyways, all advice is welcome and thanks in advance guys! =]

if you really like heavy switches and you dont get tired after using them for a long time, blacks work perfectly fine for playing RTS games like StarCraft 2. However, if you want something lighter, I would recommend the brown switches. The tactile feeling on them isn't as much as the blue switch and the sound comparison is similar. IF you are really interesting in staying with the linear switches then I guess you could go with reds, but just know that the reds are the lightest switches of the cherry mx, so if you like heavy switches, you might not like the reds.

As for layout, I don't know about other games, but for StarCraft 2, you don't need extra macro keys. They actually make things harder. A TKL or Full size is what you want to go for.

To add, macro keys are actually illegal in SC2. That's both for tournaments and ladder.

[Hour]

Eventually, Id like to get a keyboard specifically for rts games like StarCraft 2. Its my understanding that Ill need to be repeatedly hitting buttons faster than my main genre (action adventure/fps) so Im thinking my beloved cherry greens aint gonna cut it! I have tried blacks before but I feel with the speed Ill need, despite my love for heavier switch feelings, reds would be the way to go, no?

Also, layout wise, what do I really need? A bunch of extra macro keys? A full keyboard? Or would a TKL cut it? Maybe a TKL with macros? (havent seem many o them!)

Anyways, all advice is welcome and thanks in advance guys! =]

if you really like heavy switches and you dont get tired after using them for a long time, blacks work perfectly fine for playing RTS games like StarCraft 2. However, if you want something lighter, I would recommend the brown switches. The tactile feeling on them isn't as much as the blue switch and the sound comparison is similar. IF you are really interesting in staying with the linear switches then I guess you could go with reds, but just know that the reds are the lightest switches of the cherry mx, so if you like heavy switches, you might not like the reds.

As for layout, I don't know about other games, but for StarCraft 2, you don't need extra macro keys. They actually make things harder. A TKL or Full size is what you want to go for.

To add, macro keys are actually illegal in SC2. That's both for tournaments and ladder.

Yea I forgot to mention that, they are banned.

[jabar]

The only switches which caused wrist strain during extended use/sustaining during gaming are: Blacks and especially Greens.

Blues, Browns, Reds, Clears and Ergo Clears gave me no issue. Also, gaming on every switch so far was not a problem.

[dante]

Here is someone playing SC2 on a Ducky w/ Green Alps:

[tns]

Blacks are really bad... event thought most of gaming brands at first only sold blacks...
I'l rather go for red/brown/blues

[Hour]

What he said 

[TheQsanity]

Any switch works. You will probably need Fkeys and maybe Numpad keys.

[Jagriff]

Any switch works. You will probably need Fkeys and maybe Numpad keys.

Agreed. Any of the popular MX switches will be fine.

You don't need fkeys. Polt, for example, doesn't even use camera hotkeys and he's one of the best players in the world. You technically don't even need fkeys to do camera hotkeys if you are willing to use non-default hotkeys. What would one use the numpad keys for?

[Hour]

I wouldn't agree about the switches, as blacks are very tiring. Also, depending on how high level you are, you may need the F1 or F2 keys for idle workers and your army, usually for lower league players. Numpad is only really used for spectating in games.