Thanks Adobe for formally and finally squishing ALL doubt that you blow chunks!

[clickclack]

I've only used you for 20+ years so I guess I deserve to be bent over.

BTW, this CC thinks your "CC" can go 4uCK itself.

[SmallFry]

Uhm. Did they copy your design or something?

[mkawa]

which change is this referring to?

i think the wacom bamboo style stylus for capacitive touchscreens is cool, but i didn't pay attention to the pricing and saas changes

[Krogenar]

which change is this referring to?

i think the wacom bamboo style stylus for capacitive touchscreens is cool, but i didn't pay attention to the pricing and saas changes

Maybe he's referring to Adobe ending the Creative Suite line of products? It's now something called 'Creative Cloud' and it's supposed to be somewhat tamper-proof in terms of pirating the software, and it makes updating their software harder for old school users of CS. More here:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/adobes-creative-suite-is-dead-long-live-the-creative-cloud/

Adobe's Creative Suite and the applications that make it up—Photoshop, InDesign, Dreamweaver, Premiere, and a host of others—have been staples of many professional toolboxes for almost a decade now. The full suite itself has been available since September of 2003, and many of its applications have a history that reach back even further. Today at its MAX conference, however, Adobe announced a major shift in strategy for the software: boxed versions, along with their perpetual licenses, will no longer be available for any Adobe software newer than CS6. Going forward, subscribing to Adobe's Creative Cloud service will be the only way to upgrade your software.

So, if you're using, say CS5, you've got to join their CC thing to get any updates, etc. Their software is just very, very expensive, bloated and ... well, necessary if you're in the design business. Adobe is the Microsoft Intuit of the design world. If you've ever used Quickbooks you know what I mean. Adobe is switching to a subscription/licensing business model, whereas in the past you bought the software, validated it online with a registration code and you were done. If there was a new version that came out you would get an upgrade package at a reduce price. This Creative Cloud thing smashes that model -- now you pay as you go, so to speak.

For my business it's annoying because since CS4 or CS5 everything I need for business is available. Newer versions of the software suite just added new bells and whistles I did not need, but if a client calls up and says, "My artwork was designed in CS6." I can't maintain my reputation and say, "Gee, I've only got CS4, can you 'save it down' to a lower version?" It looks bad, so I upgrade.

[frenchie4111]

The thing is that the Creative Cloud will ultimately save us money. Master Suite CS6 cost 2500$, the creative cloud cost 50$ a month. So it will take 4.1 years for the monthly fees to add up to the price of the product itself. Normally you upgrade your software every 2 - 3 years, and at that time you would have had to pay the 2500$ again, ultimately this is saving people money. Also the constant update scheme they are switching too (As many companies are switching too) is much better for consumers because instead of waiting for cs6 for the problems in cs5 to be fixed, they could release it a week from when the problem is addressed.

[Krogenar]

The thing is that the Creative Cloud will ultimately save us money. Master Suite CS6 cost 2500$, the creative cloud cost 50$ a month. So it will take 4.1 years for the monthly fees to add up to the price of the product itself. Normally you upgrade your software every 2 - 3 years, and at that time you would have had to pay the 2500$ again, ultimately this is saving people money. Also the constant update scheme they are switching too (As many companies are switching too) is much better for consumers because instead of waiting for cs6 for the problems in cs5 to be fixed, they could release it a week from when the problem is addressed.

It may also be good for Adobe, as they will now have an income stream as opposed to a huge chunk of money coming in whenever there's a new version release.

Steady Income Stream > Intermittent Income Boulder

We'll have to wait and see how well Adobe executes CC.

[frenchie4111]

The thing is that the Creative Cloud will ultimately save us money. Master Suite CS6 cost 2500$, the creative cloud cost 50$ a month. So it will take 4.1 years for the monthly fees to add up to the price of the product itself. Normally you upgrade your software every 2 - 3 years, and at that time you would have had to pay the 2500$ again, ultimately this is saving people money. Also the constant update scheme they are switching too (As many companies are switching too) is much better for consumers because instead of waiting for cs6 for the problems in cs5 to be fixed, they could release it a week from when the problem is addressed.

It may also be good for Adobe, as they will now have an income stream as opposed to a huge chunk of money coming in whenever there's a new version release.

Steady Income Stream > Intermittent Income Boulder

We'll have to wait and see how well Adobe executes CC.

They are about to lose a bunch of money with the rise of HTML5 and fall of Flash, so this is their way of trying to get some of that money back. Another thing I like about the idea of the CC is that as a student I don't necessarily need their programs all the time, just when I am on a project, or in a class that involves graphics. This should give me the ability to only pay when I need it.

[Krogenar]

They are about to lose a bunch of money with the rise of HTML5 and fall of Flash, so this is their way of trying to get some of that money back. Another thing I like about the idea of the CC is that as a student I don't necessarily need their programs all the time, just when I am on a project, or in a class that involves graphics. This should give me the ability to only pay when I need it.

Maybe! I hope you're right -- unless Adobe plans on making you pay for each little upgrade. That kind of nickling and diming irks people.

[mmmty]

Adobe Cloud sucking...

[tipo33]

I switched to gimp years ago.
/troll
But really I did

[frenchie4111]

I switched to gimp years ago.
/troll
But really I did

I much prefer Gimp, but some things are simply easier in Photoshop

[Krogenar]

CS2 is essentially free now. It doesn't have all of the bells and whistles, but it has all the basics.

[Michael]

It's another attempt at trying to curb piracy by f**king over their legitimate customer base.

[frenchie4111]

It's another attempt at trying to curb piracy by f**king over their legitimate customer base.

I doubt it will do much to curb piracy. Adobe products are too desirable, and have too many people trying to crack them.

[Dianoda]

As a photoshop user (first CS4 while I was in uni, then CS5, now CS6), well, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this, to be honest.  This is a very rash move on Adobe's part.  Their justification for switching entirely to a subscription service fails the logic test (they said that almost everyone using the subscription model loves it - well, guess what, Adobe?  Of course they did - they picked the subscription because it was the most appealing option for them - why you would come to the conclusion that a subscription is therefore the best option for everyone is beyond me).

If you need the full suite, and are making money using it, the pricing makes a bit more sense, but $20/month perpetually just for PS access is a little ridiculous.  I'd rather pay more upfront and actually own the software (and still be able to use it in 5 years if I need it, or at least decide when I want to shell out more for the next version), than acquire a monthly bill just to edit my photos.

When the time comes to upgrade from PSCS6, well, maybe I'll bite the bullet and join CC, but not after giving Adobe's competition a very close look - which is something I never thought I'd say.

[noisyturtle]

I'm curious how this is going to effect the educational use software they distribute. Will colleges have to get all new licenses now? Also this totally screws students, all of whom I know use pirated CS suite out of necessity because it's just not affordable even with a student discount and needed to complete all the projects(at least at my school.) If they worked out free distribution for students attending colleges requiring their software for projects then that would be cool, but I highly doubt Adobe would be OK with free CS suites for students.

[Lanx]

students will pay 30bucks a month, 20 if you get in now.

[baldgye]

It's another attempt at trying to curb piracy by f**king over their legitimate customer base.

idd... all they actually have to do, is put out a version of photoshop that does most of the **** u need, for like $40 and people would ****ing gobble on that **** faster than a **** gobbles cock for coke... yet here we are...

[tp4tissue]

They like money....

I believe adobe software, at least the photoshop is popular enough such that pirates will break the cloud thing regardless..

The scene people will look at it as a "challenge"

[clickclack]

^^^ probably. I don't know the specifics of how that would or wouldn't be any different than now though. I know nothing about coding/engineering, or h4cking. lulz

I have so much to say about this topic but I'm too pissed at the moment regarding it (I even have to schedule a meeting at work regarding it). I hate when companies do the black or white thing and then try to over justify it.

[clickclack]

My anger read like a list in my mind so apparently thats how I translated it here-


-What if we are without internet service for a period of time?

-What if we have poor internet service?

-Do you mean if we have a lapse in payment, suddenly our “work flow” tanks?

-If there is an account glitch (not that uncommon) do we loose our client because we could no longer use our software?

-What about students who get raped now?

-What about institutions who get raped now? Imagine a glitch on the networked system (it happens a lot more than you would think)

-Good job on messing up how some grants are allocated too. Grants can be used monthly but it makes the process much more tricky in their allocation. Lets say you can pay a year in advance. Ok great! Except now you have to write a grant again for the following year. Or if you don’t do grants then you have to budget for this each and every year.  Fiscal term accounts don’t usually carry over in the education sector.

-What did you lose by making a subscription based product AND selling physical copies OR just the full download minus the subscription?

-We can already get updates jackasses. We don’t need a subscription to get updates.

-How will this support periphery programs that are not convoluted… oops, I mean cloud based? Or subscription based?

-Ever have an effed up download? No, never happens, oh wait. To bad you don’t have a physical copy, sorry, try again, have a nice day.

-And for those of us photographers, oh goodie, I am now forced into doing this for compatibility with my cameras file formats. In other words to use ACR… well, you get the picture (pun intended). Gawd forbid I buy a new camera.

-For those of us illustrators (particularly future illustrators), oh joy, why cant we draw on the computer again without paying each month?

-There is no student teacher price for individual programs, just the $20 for the whole CC as opposed to $50. So instead of $600 students and faculty can pay $240. That’s a good chunk of dough for a student who just needs Photoshop or Illustrator. And more than it used to be for single programs. So instead of getting one thing for cheap, OH JOY, you can get more for MORE! But don’t forget that after the first year you have to pay $30 a month. So it changes to $360, lol, cuz students only spend a year in school right?

-Lets see, for a student in a 4-5 year program. It’s $1680. LOL, and that’s just for the use of Photoshop. Whereas before, it could cost you anywhere between $150-750 for all five years, non-updated to updated. I know most students tend not to upgrade in tight intervals. And upgrades before were only like what? Once every two years or close to it? AND upgrades used to be heavily discounted.

-BTW, it’s only a small portion of artists (designers included) that can easily fork out the money for these products, let alone get stuck on a payment plan for them.  And just because some people use Apple products it doesn’t mean they have money. This new asinine notion of the artist as some sort of “hipster money maker” is a joke of epic proportions.



To Adobe-

“Hey you over there! Nice wrench you got! Would you mind terribly if I asked you to throw it at me at what seems like random intervals when I’m least expecting it?” kthnxbai

-From your users (previously loyal)




-Step it up Corel! Let me love you for something other than Painter!

-Step it up GIMP! (good gawd I hate that program) I’m still rootin for ya though!

I don’t want Adobe to loose, I just don’t want them to win with this idea. And I really don’t want them to drag other companies into this absurd black and white system. The “you’re either with us or against us” BS mentality.

-Thanks Adobe for getting the world stuck in not being able to quit you (lulz). Congrats Adobe for becoming an unwelcomed narcotic.



I really hope your new venture into the hardware business does not pan out the same.
UserA- "HEY! What happened to my pen?!?"
UserB- "What's wrong?"
UserA- "My pen stopped working"
UserB- "Bummer, did you pay your bill?"
UserA- "Oh, nevermind"  *walks off and hangs himself*


For the TL;DR crowd-
Pay your bills and move along, move along...

[eth0s]

^ +1, yeah, Adobe suxxorz.  But tbh, I hated them way before this, for their security flaws, among other things.  And Microsoft is doing the same thing with Office 365.  You buy a 12 month "subscription" to use it.  You don't actually own the software anymore, instead you get a limited right to rent it.  This is a new low, even for a rapacious douchebag like B!ll G@tes.  The concept of rent-exploitation isn't new, it's just being adapted to software. 

[fohat.digs]

I agree. The subscription model is the perfect way to vacuum up money without having to provide in return.

They saw the cell phone contract model and liked what they saw. Soon you will have to contract in advance without the opportunity to escape when the product/service quality declines or fails to meet expectations.

[MJ45]

Unfortunately I think this where all the big software company's are heading, Microsoft Office went cloud a while back but sill has regular Office suite avaliable for now, but I think that may change. You can't boycott the products or do without. Business's need them to function. Its like the gas and electric utilities you need it and pay every month to function. It really sucks but I believe this is how all will be whether we like or not. The future has some Dark Clouds hanging over it.   

[eth0s]

Unfortunately I think this where all the big software company's are heading, Microsoft Office went cloud a while back but sill has regular Office suite avaliable for now, but I think that may change. You can't boycott the products or do without. Business's need them to function. Its like the gas and electric utilities you need it and pay every month to function. It really sucks but I believe this is how all will be whether we like or not. The future has some Dark Clouds hanging over it.   

Exactly like the gas and electric companies.  Software companies would love to adopt the model of the utility monopoly.  No consumer power.  No regulatory oversight.  Unlimited profits.

[Turbo Slaab]

I still to this day think software that costs more than the OS it runs on is absolutely absurd. It boggles my mind that Adobe can get away with this and I thank god that I don't need to use it.

[rowdy]

Maybe it's because everyone is happy with the software they have already got, and few and fewer people are bothering to upgrade.

This way the company gets money regardless.

[clickclack]

Rowdy,
That would actually be a nice thought if it wasn't for the painful necessity of needing to upgrade for either compatibility, ability, or relevance. I wish it was because we were all happy with what we already have.

[dirge]

Well Microsoft / VMware have all had patches which have impact on production systems.  I'd imagine Adobe users are in for the same ride.  Good luck when Adobe break your work with a patch and your left for days/weeks trying to get beyond a call center in India.

[Krogenar]

Rowdy,
That would actually be a nice thought if it wasn't for the painful necessity of needing to upgrade for either compatibility, ability, or relevance. I wish it was because we were all happy with what we already have.

I agree. Every new version of Creative Suite was just another layer of bloat, and stupid nonsense that designers really did not need. But that's their business model. It reminds me a lot of Intuit's Quickbooks accounting software. The basic principles of accounting haven't changed in about 1,000 years, but Intuit has to put out a new product every year in order to make more money. How do you keep making money on a software that was essentially 'feature complete' on the first release? So, their software is constantly updating itself (newer ads, yay) and is always trying to get you to sign up for payroll, or credit card processing, etc. (i.e. deeper hooks into you).

I'm worried that this is what Adobe CC will become -- just an endless advertising medium for them to get an ever-increasing slice of your income.

I'm not surprised at all that they did this, because it makes business sense, and in the long-term should be better for the consumer if they do it right. This SaaS (software as a service) stuff is the wave of the future because theoretically it means you have access to your design work from anywhere, OS-agnostic. Think of it in terms of movie streaming; when a company makes a DVD it becomes a potential source of piracy once it's in the consumer's hands. But if instead of giving the customer a physical item, you merely license the use of the movie to them, then you don't need to give them anything physical. The upside is that you don't need to tote your media with you. Let's say I've purchased the 'right' to view 100 different movies. Done correctly, I should be able to go nearly anywhere in the world, and watch those films on an agnostic system that verifies who I am, and then gives me access to my media. No DVDs to tote, no harddrive to carry, nothing. I just validate who I am, and enjoy.

Again... if they get it right. The downside (for Adobe) is that if they screw it up, then it's easy for me to switch to another 'service' -- assuming they do not put up arbitrary barriers to prevent me from doing so. If they put up those barriers (they almost certainly will) then it's up to some other enterprising software company to create another service that allows me to 'cloud' my work files anywhere I choose, or allows me to leave their service as I see fit.

The trouble with Adobe is that their products, file standards, etc. are so deeply embedded in the design community that it is hard to leave them if they misbehave. And I'm sure they would follow Apple's example in launching a battalion of lawyers against any company that tried to enter their market. The proper role of government in all this is to keep the market open for newcomers; like when the U.S. government made it illegal for a phone company to hold you old phone number 'hostage' -- remember that? They'll likely screw it up, somehow.

And it does sometimes happen that a company makes a huge contribution to the industry and then fails and is devoured by the very market they created, so there is precedent for the market working in these kinds of cases.

[fohat.digs]

Unfortunately, you are right.

This will never change until people boycott the offending products and services.

Apple was in deep decline until their gear became fashionable a decade ago, and now its adherents (my wife) will pay anything and tolerate anything to stay on the bandwagon.

A few years ago I tried to (mostly) migrate to Ubuntu, but the barriers were too high. It is just a backwater to me, now, but I maintain hope.

[quadibloc]

It will save people money only if they upgrade it every single time a new version comes out.